In denial?

[pollypocket111]

i'm wondering how and why, i dont remember her always being a nasty person, she was so loving to me as a child. i think maybe i was the golden child when we were growing up, as i was gifted, and resembled my father. she used to make me sing in front of people. and my artisit capablitilies where very good. which she was so proud of. my eldest sister often comments that i was the favourite, she hated this and she hated me.

Can a narcissist mother switch the golden child?

and would she then, influence me, to become her golden child again... like say splitting up from a partner. would that make her happy. or would she want to break me entirely, like she has done to the scapegoat.

do you have happy memories?

i'm also doubting what is the truth, as i cant believe this could be my mother, and there are more people like her.

 

[H011yHawkJ311yBean]

Oh yes, I would say that's likely. The dynamics in our family were never consistent... I think, for the most part, my youngest brother was the golden child, until he grew up and he stopped seeing/talking with her and then for a time I was treated half-decent (but I don't think nearly as nicely treated, just more tolerated than I used to be - I still wasn't allowed to speak my mind and expected to be the good girl, but now she needed someone to yip to about how bad her little boy was to her). And my middle brother was always the kid she was looking after like he was an idiot and couldn't take care of himself... So I don't know if now that neither myself nor my youngest brother talk to her she's probably treating my middle brother even MORE special, if he can stand it... lol

Most of the time I would be treated worse than her other kids, that is I would be pretty near invisible, until she was alone with me, and then she'd complain about my brothers to me and tell me not to have them.

But it wouldn't surprise me in the least if she kept switching labels on the jars to suit her needs...

I do know I felt more neglected than my youngest brother, and my middle brother feels downright smothered... My youngest brother had a completely different experience growing up and it wasn't until he had therapy that he realized how damaging the relationship he had with my mother really was... And how differently each of us was raised...

 

[Jazzey]

Sure..I have plenty of happy memories with my mom. She could, at times, be the most affectionate person I've even known. And those memories do really wreak havoc on the other stuff...it adds to self-doubt. And then, something comes in to remind you...Sometimes it's subtle,and sometimes, not so much...

As for the golden child...I have brothers - one in particular was/has always been her golden child. There's a caveat there - whenever he stepped away from her for whatever reason, then she'd choose another child. But I think now that this was on the surface - it's part of the game for my mother at least: "see what so and so has done? What an incredible person? I so wish you could all be of such a tender spirit ("or whatever the issue is at that time").

The golden child in my family has just recently been accepted to do a Master's program in a good University. I was so happy for him. This past weekend, she spent the weekend telling him to his face that he wouldn't succeed, that his history was always to give up on stuff (and other things). Essentially doing everything in her power to be-little that experience for him. I'm so proud of him, and told him so privately. But I did recognize the game. My mother did that with me for education and to this day, I'm still not sure how exactly I was able to set that aside and just do it....

From your post, I'm making the assumption that your mother has never been formally diagnosed. My mother has not been diagnosed either. But her behaviours certainly suggest narcissism...and in my case, at times, abuse.

From my experience with my own mother, as her children have grown up, she has been more adept at her skill. In one or two words, she can destroy each and every one of us.

Having said that, each of her children do have some really fond memories of her as we were growing up. Some really tender moments. But I also remember some other stuff that was far from tender, or loving, or supportive.

I don't know about your experience. In my case, I have felt it mostly as an issue of control: the more she can diminish each of her children, the more we will bend over backwards for her approval, stick around. And until recently, it's worked for the most part.

Btw....My mother always made me perform in front of her friends - singing or musical instruments. But I've come to realize that this was NEVER about me..that was again about her. I don't want to get into details her...but it just wasn't about supporting a child.

Having a mother (or parent) who can at times be loving and affectionate doesn't necessarily strike out narcissism. And again, I'll limit this to my experience - as an adult, I've really discovered that a lot of that affection was mostly a facade or a manipulation. I do think she loves me in her own way..but there is always something in it for her, in my case....

Polly, I haven't seen you here before. Welcome to PL.

Sorry for the rambling....just spent the weekend with my mom.

 

[pollypocket111]

Most of the time I would be treated worse than her other kids, that is I would be pretty near invisible, until she was alone with me, and then she'd complain about my brothers to me and tell me not to have them.

oh my that is so true. she often said this... 'i'm glad she's not my sister, i'm glad he's not my dad' i find myself saying it to my partner, and i dont know why.

---------- Post added at 08:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:17 AM ----------

From your post, I'm making the assumption that your mother has never been formally diagnosed. My mother has not been diagnosed either. But her behaviours certainly suggest narcissism...and in my case, at times, abuse.

nice to meet you displaced. no she hasnt been diagnosed, i'm that terrified of her control and power, that i'm not going to suggest it. instead i'm going to learn to live with, and move. Although i'm sure she is aware. She seems to think we are all on her 'wavelength' no one understands her but us.

i went to university, and failed to acknowledge my mum, she was to easy to offend, and to high maintenance, everytime i visited her, i just felt crushed, manipulated and a confused person when i returned to university, so i just stopped going. that and the fact i couldn't afford the plane ticket.
my siblings had both failed. And this made me push on to get my degree. she wouldnt come to my graduation, with a very silly excuse. And now she tells me the golden child is going back to university. AGAIN.

 

[H011yHawkJ311yBean]

Oops, I mean my mother used to talk behind people's back, like my brothers, and when I said

and tell me not to have them.

I meant she would tell me not ever to give birth to boys. That sentence wasn't exactly shining with clarity there... lol

Good for you for getting your degree polly!! Apparently my mom was proud of me being the first of any of my cousins to have a degree... So that's probably why she pushed me to go to university right after high school. I simply didn't see that I had a choice to do anything else. I think I distinctly remember her saying that I was the first cousin of my dad's side to get a degree, which she seemed to think was awesome and probably was thinking "Ha ha! Stick that in your face, Cunninghams!" (meaning she felt threatened by my dad's side of the family for some reason, and I'm thinking it's because of how close-knit everyone is on that side, compared to her side of the family, the Sopers, who are split up all over with one family thinking they're better than the other, etc)... It also was probably because with the exception of perhaps one cousin on my dad's side, they were all younger than me. My one cousin who was about my age, younger by a few months, decided to do other things and then got married and had kids first, so she got her vet's degree just recently. And there's nothing wrong with that... lol But my mom seems to make that a point of being proud of me.

 

[pollypocket111]

do you find yourself mimicing her behaviour?

on several occasions, she has expressed a dislike to people. so we make it our duty to bully and exploit these people with no guilty conciounce as they had offended our mother.
in one case i bullied, and tricked and manipulated every person into disliking and hating this one particular girl. She hadnt done anything to offend me, just looked my mum up and down(which i never saw), but they started seeing what this girl had done, as a result of a reaction to my responses and resented her. this to me was an accomplishment. only after i think what this girl must have been put through, as a result of my behaviour.
i know my siblings have also carried out similar behaviour even to mothers friends. Being abusive, swearing and being offensive was resulted in my mother laughing, so this was always encouraged.

also i can tell a lie, that no normal person could ever think up. knowing just what to say to make it believable. how to back it up and create an alibi. how to present evidence before there is any suspicion raised. My younger sibling, is also extrememly good at lieing too. my partner was horrified at the lentgh i went to to conceal something i didnt want her to know. i dont lie to him, and i choose not to lie to other people. in fact i'm quite a frank and open person to people i think are not going to take this information and manipulate it.

Also, as a parent i've found myself copying and mimicing her. incuding saying things to my daughter which would really upset me as a child, i try not to. and feel awful after. As a direct resullt of her interfereing, my partner no longer has control over our child... with a remark that suggested that he shouldn't have any influence on the upbringing of the child. he should just earn the money. As a result his relationship has broken down, so we've been recently trying to rectify this.
my mothers believes are thatt the mother brings up the child, with no influence from any one else. and the father is NOT allowed to discipline, a man shouldnt hit a child especially a girl. My child is very outspoken, and my mother does not agree with this. a child should be seen and not heard. although i've actively encourage her mind and choice ffrom day one, as soon as she could pick what sweet she wanted.

Also my temper- its horrendous. i'm naturally calm, kind, i see things in black and white. and i'm quite reasonable. and ALWAYS a peace maker. But i find myself in rages, more recently. an arguement with my partner involved me pulling the inside of the dishwasher out and dropping it onto the floor. glass everywhere. and i left him to clean it up. its not the only thing, i've smashed all sorts, and its normally because my partner doesnt listen to me in an arguement. he just doesnt say anything when i do it, and cleans it all up so the animalss dont cut their feet. if he had done that to me, i would have packed up the car and left.

this was something my mother always did, she would throw things at walls, drop things on the floor. smash up expesive equiptment. even presents people had given her. obviously my dad wouldnt step out of line. and this would normally result in my dad going buying her the most expensive flowers he could afford.

i'm interested to know what you think about these traits... does that make me narcissisitc too? how can i change it... and do you have the similar traits?

 

[JennyS]

It is an awful feeling to think, could this be my mother.
But it's true, they can turn out that way.
In my case it took 30 years waiting until my mother had a life changing event.
Her new husband was dying and she took care of him and was terrified of loosing him.
In the process she grew, she saw things I could never teach her or explain to her.

Bottom line, sometimes we have to wait for life to do this.

 

[pollypocket111]

Bottom line, sometimes we have to wait for life to do this.

at least i know now.

---------- Post added at 12:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:24 AM ----------

how can i stop a narissist mother from taking my children off me?
she did it to my other sister, she went to work as normal, kissed her son, said good bye... got to work and the cops where there waiting to interview her. my sister ran away. i'm worried its me next. and i dont know what i can do about it. she's painting us to be abusive and bad parents.
this woman convinced the police, health workers, social workers. and lied in court. i believed it, friends did, families did. i'm so scared, and i'm so scared no-one will believe us. i have to get away.

 

[H011yHawkJ311yBean]

Hi Polly... I had a mother who was the same. Actually my dad also was, to a lesser degree. The amount of frustration and build-up of negative emotions when your family is supposed to be perfect and happy and never argue with each other is very straining. My mom has thrown a cutlery drawer down the stairs, has taken turns smacking us kids around when we were smaller than her (I think she stopped doing it when one of my brothers finally had enough and started shoving her away)... My dad kicked in a closet door. There were holes everywhere in the house mostly in the kitchen and near to my brother's bedrooms, because she would follow them around and wouldn't let them escape and cool off in their bedrooms...

I, too, used to freak out and smash or punch things. I also self-harmed a bit here and there. I felt so awful when I was working at an after school program and I scared a child because I was yelling at another child across the room for throwing scissors. It was supposed to be a SAFE place for her to be, away from her yelling parents and arguing at home, and I scared her. I also used to be a nanny and sometimes I would allow myself to get whipped up into a frenzy. I never hit them, but I would bang walls and stomp around yelling and gritting my teeth and snarling and spitting kind of like my mother always did. I felt so bad. My husband got upset, too, because although by the time I was in my thirties I was nowhere near as bad about controlling my temper. But when I felt like I was losing an argument or he didn't understand and wouldn't let me talk, I would really really lose it. But I somehow at one point said, okay, that's enough, I can control myself. I cannot blame someone else for me getting angry and me breaking or hitting something. I realized I can control this. I haven't done any lashing out like that in over a decade.

If you have difficulty being able to calm yourself down, or cool off, or if you and your partner aren't having fair discussions, things can escalate. You may need to try therapy to help you. If you have learned lying and other behaviour from your mom, it doesn't mean you can't unlearn it or try other behaviours. At least you have made a good start, because you have acknowledged that you have some issues you want to work on. What I mean about "unfair fighting" in a discussion:

-- some people think they don't have to let the other person talk: they want to blurt out everything and the other person is expected to listen and not object, not give opinions, or not even show opposition.

-- If one person is not willing to compromise or bend a little, and always has to be right. It isn't being right that wins arguments. It's being fair. It's clearing up a misunderstanding. It's maybe both people were a little wrong, or both were right... Or maybe there wasn't a wrong or a right about it, just a different point of view. Sometimes when a person wins the argument, both people lose.

-- Pulling other things off the shelf. One person senses she/he is losing an argument, so they start remembering things from times gone by that make the other person look bad, or distract them from the current argument. Anything to throw in the other person's face to distract them from winning this argument.

-- Violence or disruptive behaviour is another way to distract when losing an argument. Threatening, scaring, bullying, going on the rampage, throwing things, smashing things -- in hopes that the next time someone has an issue with that kind of person that they will either deal with it on their own, or not have the courage to say anything and just be miserable in silence.

Anyways, you may be able to search within yourself and maybe meditate or learn calming techniques to be more mindful of when things start escalating, instead of trying to win the argument, start thinking things, like maybe am I breathing too shallow and quick and bringing up my anxiety levels? Am I afraid I am going to lose the argument? Why? Would winning this argument make a difference in the relationship? Can I get away for a few minutes to calm down because I am starting to feel I am losing my control? How am I presenting this argument -- Am I saying "You always, I never, etc" or am I starting my discussions with "I feel (sad, undermined, ignored, bad, frustrated) when you (do something) and I wish you would (do something else) so I could (feel better)."

There are some assertiveness training courses and books you could probably find that would help... But therapy is another possible solution. Maybe you need to answer why you feel you are a ticking time bomb, and ask if the therapist has some ways to help you manage your behaviour.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

As for your Narcissistic Mother taking away your sister's children, what happened to them? Did the police get involved and find out that the allegations were false? Because if that is the case and she tries to take someone else's children, then the Narcissistic Mom might get into trouble. I would suggest seeing if you can contact a pro bono lawyer through family services, or even speak to the police if you have to, to find out your options. You may find you will need to arrange a peace bond or protection papers to ensure she stays away from your family. Are you planning to stay and fight things out legally or do you feel you have no choice but to flee? I would try to do everything you can legal-beagle and if the system fails you, I wouldn't blame you for trying other means to protect yourself and your family.

 

[pollypocket111]

thank you
whatever my mum is there is a pattern of abuse.
i'm not diognosing her david. I cant diagnose, but she will never be diagnosed. this is not an adolescent rebelling against her parent. i've sat and watched her crush every member of my family, and for some reason, i dont see things as they do. if she is not narcissistic, thats fine, but it is evident that there is something majorly wrong. something which explained EVERYTHING to me. i was merely asking for help or someone to talk to, as other people have felt what i'm feeling now.

Every thing i do, is critisied, and if i disagree with her critism, she takes it personally. even what type of bread to eat.
As a person it is more of what i can do for her, then what she can do for me... and the things she does for me are thrown back at me. my partner was useful whilst he got something she wanted, or whilst he helped her. but when he didnt have what she wanted, she hated him. And now the ball is put into motion, of telling anyone who will listen that he's (whatever she thinks he is at the time) the problem is, is she'll be telling the social.
she manipulated both of us into chagning our lives for her, and when we did, she got bored very quickly, she has now started converting other people against us. even the smallest thing is manipulated to look like i'm a cruel person. i questioned her as to why she would mention something as minor and small and turn it into the cruelest act, she couldnt comment.
also i've never had an apology, even when she's wrong. and what she said is that parents cant be friends with their children.
my other sisters treat her like she is judge and jury, her decision comes above morality and reasoning.
maybe i'm not the same as them anymore because i've been away for so long. And i dont see it as they do.
i feel better, think more clearly when i dont speak to her or see her. also her critisms and sly remarks, make me hate my partner, and when i've not seen her, i stop hating him.

jolly green jelly bean, my next step is to visit a therapist and tell them my thoughts, and where i should go next, but i could do with the self help books too. i've not broke anything recently, but at the minute i'm not angry.... and not thinking... what would my mum say...

 

[Always Changing]

Some people are not able to handle the thought that their children have minds of their own, when they start to realise this they can begin to "nicely" chat and try and get you to again see that your way is not the right way or the way to go about something etc etc .. come up with all sorts of reasons etc really taking the time to make feel that they really do care and are trying to help,,, then you begin to doubt yourself and start to think and believe she\he is right. this works for a time... then slowly the next phase of control comes in.
I think what helped me at times was NOT letting on that I could actually think for myself... not alerting her to the fact that she was not actually in full control, that meant (for me) that I would agree with x x x x that she was saying or doing.... while at the same time working to figure out how to distance myself from this woman. It can take and did take some time and a lot of effort to maintain this.. I learned not to rise to her critisms, anger etc etc... but to (act) behave and answer her.... as if she was right.. thereby allowing her to think she did control me. I often slipped back to thinking her way or slipped up by alerting her that I had a different view of x or x.. it was very hard to rememeber at times that I did have the ability to think for myself and to hang onto that.

 

[H011yHawkJ311yBean]

Yes, I don't think it was very healthy for me, but I refused to fall in to her games. I knew she seemed to relish arguments and getting me riled up, so I learned to bite my tongue and just keep to shallow conversation/small talk... I chose not to stand up to her to her face, or disagree with her to her face, but when I got home I would vent to my husband who would ask me why I didn't tell these things to my mother's face, and I told him because it would be pointless... However being so two-faced made me feel terrible about myself and I literally thought I was going to crack up because of being one way outwardly and at the same time feeling so much anger and resentment internally... Chose to break off communications as of last May of this year...

It is very hard to think for oneself when one is enmeshed with another. You become an extension of someone else, rather than feeling your own feelings, etc...

 

[Always Changing]

It is so different for everyone,, what works to help one person in a similar situation is not always the right thing\ tactic to use for another, that worked for me because I think I gained a certain space in my head where I was able to see what was going on,, (power, control, manipulation, lies, etc) took a long time to get there.
I left that relationship go a long time ago.

 

[pollypocket111]

i think i've been suspicious for some time, i never agreed with her, and noticed that i had to apologies to her for anything, whether i was right or wrong. i'm reluctant to apologies for something i dont feel is my fault. although i do, and obviously this always gives her the upperhand. i found it frustrating, that i couldnt make freinds and she always hated them when i did find them, all my boyfriends she hated them too, she would pick and chose my future, what would be best for me. i had little choice. my mail was opened, and i was told what to do. At some point though, my ambition went through the roof, and she told me 'if i want you home from school, you will do as i say' this was another reason i left home. she also said this to my sibling. it worked on them. she used to drag us out of bed in the night to clean the house. most kids went out and played with their friends, this was not allowed. also there were no secrets, secrets where deliberately defying her, and a sibling would always report back, resulting in verry twisted and exagerrated lies. we were always argueing as kids, over she's done this and he's done that. and everything... got back.

i was reluctant to do all those unessary chores, that most kids my age would never knew exsisited. but did it to make my life easier-we had no social life other than each other because we would work for mother. our payment was food.
i have my own little area now, it makes it easier that i'm grown and have a family of my own, and i can place them above her needs. although i can see what has happened to my siblings, and now that i can not allow this to happen to me. she's already started turning people against me, dropping the support family members would in any other family offer. i feel like i have part time parents. that just dont care, and are not there to support me, unless i do as they say... which would for them, mean leave my partner and hand my life over to them. i dont even think then she would be happy, but i'm tired of trying to please her, i need to please myself first. And i'm not doing as she says at the cost of my little family. who are far more important than her.

the current situation is a direct result of her manipulation and meddling, and interferance... and its going to cost us quite a lot to resolve it. although for my sanity its worth it. i'm needing my distance.

 

[Always Changing]

And i'm not doing as she says at the cost of my little family. who are far more important than her.

I like this. :2thumbs:

 

[pollypocket111]

me too... although only came to that conclusion recently... she was destroying us... or destroying me, and by destroying me, ripping our little family apart.

 

[Always Changing]

This is your truth Polly.. your reality. No one else in your family may understand it, agree with it or see how you could arrive at it. That may be hard to deal with and cause you to waver and again start doubting yourself. From that point of view try and be careful who you seek support from ok.
I think you are a very strong person who can and will do what you believe is necessary to keep you and your little family safe.


:hug:

 

[pollypocket111]

one of my sisblings understands, she saw it first hand, and agrees with what i'm saying, but in the past i was manipulated to turn on her, and she could be manipulated to turn on me, so really i'll trust no-one other than my partner.

 

[Always Changing]

Hi Polly,
Just wondering how you are coping since your last post here,

my next step is to visit a therapist and tell them my thoughts, and where i should go next,

have you been able to look into this yet?

 

[pollypocket111]

i cant in my current situation, litteraly grounded, but when the situation gets moving i will. i'm calmer, and have noticed her behaviour is a lot different too me after i told her to stop interfering. i'm holding my cards close at the minute.