fordaughterssake
Member
Thanks in advance for any replies.
I know that this is a slippery slope - and could probably get really long. I know I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist. However, I will say that I have read several books on narcissism (in the cover of darkness I might add) and do understand the differences in regular (somewhat healthy) narcissistic traits, destructive narcissistic traits, and full blown pathological NPD. I have also done lots of reading about how NPD manifests itself against significant others. No one knows this better than someone living in it.
This all started a few years ago when my wife was becoming increasingly more difficult to deal with. Her erratic behavior was becoming more and more inexplicable. It was just all so maddening to me. No matter what you do, or how far you go out of your way, you can never please her. I have been lied about and had all sorts of totally unfounded and ridiculous allegations made against me for so long that I have finally had enough. I'm finished with it. I have taken physical abuse at times and had false allegations of abuse made against me. I have been manipulated (and controlled) by guilt and shame into subservience for years. I have tons of evidence, recordings, and journals that I was forced to keep because I was constantly being told what my reality was for years. Not to mention, that my lawyer wife wouldn't let me forget it and that she "would destroy me". My reality is a living hell. I have had absolutely no say so in my own life. It's no way to live.
How's this for a dead give away: I have been told for years that I was "common" and that "nobody even knows who you are". My standard reply used to be "is that a bad thing? I don't get it", "I'm just fine living in anonymity", etc. That went over my head for years until I started educating myself. Two years ago I started doing some research to explain it. I did several Google searches on confusing terms that didn't quite fit when trying to explain what I was experiencing. One day I almost gave up and then I Google'd "walking on eggshells". The book about BPD by Randi Kreger was returned. I immediately started reading excerpts from it. The more I read, the more I saw that the underlying ?fear of abandonment? associated with BPD just didn?t fit. However, much of how the disorders manifested themselves in physical, emotional, and verbal abuse were common. This is when I saw NPD referenced. I then went off down the NPD path and it was like a light bulb went off in my head. That?s it. It?s all about ?superiority? in every regard. Everything I read was like reading a book someone was writing about my life.
My own wife has trashed me for years with much worse - believe me. You could always count on one thing: when she would blow up over nothing and call me things like "trailer-trash", "common", or "common-trash", "uneducated", etc. to her that's the lowest of the low. There are numerous other ways that I could go on and on about. As a matter of fact, I have BS in computer science and have worked as software engineer for thirteen years. She has a law degree and has not worked (a paying job anyway) in five years. She was only an in-house attorney for an insurance company for a couple of years before that. No matter how much I've begged and begged and no matter how badly our family has needed the money she has refused to go back to work. She has such a severe sense of entitlement that she believes she's entitled to be a stay at home mom and not work and just demand more and more money that does not exist. She even lies to everyone who will listen and tells them that I don?t give her any money to support our child when I give her $1000 cash per month for that purpose ? plus I pay for our house and ALL of our other bills. I am then left with nothing in the end just hoping I have enough for gas to get back and forth to work.
I sit amazed while watching her befriend important people in the community to get on boards of charities, etc. just because she's a smooth talking "attorney". She has no accomplishments really other than the fact she made it through law school and passed the BAR (though I do understand it's something to be proud of but not something you hang your hat on for the rest of your life). As far as the charities, she will then gripe and complain that she has to go to meetings, events, etc. If she does something for the charity and doesn't get what she thinks is sufficient adulation and admiration, there will be hell to pay - and usually for me. It has nothing to do with the charities she's supposed to be helping. BTW: Yes. She is too good to do regular volunteer work. She only does what she can be in control of ? like being on a board or chairperson of an event/committee. I also volunteer for the charities but it?s to do leg work and go around and actually help the less-fortunate ?trailer trash? she accuse me of being all the time. It?s really pitiful. It's all about the "plausibility" of public persona she tries to convey. It makes me want to puke given what I know about her private persona. I won't even go into the stereo-typical overreactions and rage to the most innocuous comments that are ALWAYS perceived as criticism. I'm usually left scratching my head.
Recently, she made some other false allegations against me that are totally unfounded, untrue, and completely unacceptable and she knows it. She started making these totally inexcusable allegations in the presence of our two year old daughter. She did it all because she thought one of her rages was being recorded - out of her own selfishness (i.e. to cover or deflect from her own behavior). I won't say what she was saying but it was things that could seriously affect the rest of an innocent little two year old's life - especially if she were to repeat it or if it stuck in her mind long enough for her to wonder what momma was talking about. That was the last straw for me.
I'm currently seeking a divorce. I won't get into all of the details; however, I have started seeing my own therapist to help me cope with the anxiety involved, help me remain assertive without being overly aggressive, and, most importantly, how to protect my daughter in all of this when I KNOW that my soon to be ex-wife will replace what little NS I can muster for her now with my daughter when I'm gone. I also realize that I'm human and not perfect and may have other issues unrelated to this situation that I could work on myself.
I have seen my therapist twice now and have some serious concerns about her. This is definitely a slippery slope for me and I risk coming across as narcissistic myself. Again, I understand that I'm not a qualified expert on NPD and that my wife has never had an official diagnosis; however, I'm getting the feeling that my therapist has no direct experience with NPD herself (whether someone clinically diagnosed with it or helping the spouse of someone diagnosed with it). I have asked her directly twice now (and with all due respect) with no response. I don't know if it's a general practice to not address something like this when asked because she's never met my wife - which I could totally understand. Or, if she may be concerned about responding because she knows my wife is an attorney - maybe a combination of the two.
I'm extremely concerned because to be able to help me she (my therapist) needs to understand that that is exactly what I'm going through - whether my wife has been clinically diagnosed with NPD or not. I can outline numerous traits consistent with pathological narcissism without a diagnosis all day long. I also have other concerns related to common sense advice she gives me. I understand where she's coming from and her suggestions would typically work when dealing with a normal logical thinking person on equal footing. However, I'm constantly left trying to reason with the unreasonable or using common sense rationale that may apply one minute and not the next. I have even played a couple of extreme examples of my wife?s behavior for her and it seems like she writes it off as a "bickering" and "arguing" couple - seemingly textbook response for couples in marriage counseling. I've been quite frank with her that I'm not there to work on my marriage. I?m on my way out.
What should I do? Can I get my therapist to detail her experience, if any, with NPD without seeming narcissistic (or "special") myself? How do I get her to totally understand what I'm going through so she can help me? Maybe two visits just isn't enough time to convey it because of it's complicated nature. To be perfectly honest, I?m not concerned so much with the clinical or textbook definition of NPD - though it does fit like a glove. I need to know whether or not she (my therapist) has any experience with, or knowledge of, the nuances and subtleties (and not so subtleties) of what it?s like living with someone that?s pathologically extremely difficult (let?s put it that way) ? someone that can?t be pleased, their concerns, demands, and expectations are all that matter (and if they?re not met there WILL be hell to pay in many ways), there?s one set of rules for this person and another set of rules for the other person, and common sense rationale doesn?t always apply (if ever) and it?s constantly changing. This is the only way my daughter and I can be helped in the long run.
I know that this is a slippery slope - and could probably get really long. I know I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist. However, I will say that I have read several books on narcissism (in the cover of darkness I might add) and do understand the differences in regular (somewhat healthy) narcissistic traits, destructive narcissistic traits, and full blown pathological NPD. I have also done lots of reading about how NPD manifests itself against significant others. No one knows this better than someone living in it.
This all started a few years ago when my wife was becoming increasingly more difficult to deal with. Her erratic behavior was becoming more and more inexplicable. It was just all so maddening to me. No matter what you do, or how far you go out of your way, you can never please her. I have been lied about and had all sorts of totally unfounded and ridiculous allegations made against me for so long that I have finally had enough. I'm finished with it. I have taken physical abuse at times and had false allegations of abuse made against me. I have been manipulated (and controlled) by guilt and shame into subservience for years. I have tons of evidence, recordings, and journals that I was forced to keep because I was constantly being told what my reality was for years. Not to mention, that my lawyer wife wouldn't let me forget it and that she "would destroy me". My reality is a living hell. I have had absolutely no say so in my own life. It's no way to live.
How's this for a dead give away: I have been told for years that I was "common" and that "nobody even knows who you are". My standard reply used to be "is that a bad thing? I don't get it", "I'm just fine living in anonymity", etc. That went over my head for years until I started educating myself. Two years ago I started doing some research to explain it. I did several Google searches on confusing terms that didn't quite fit when trying to explain what I was experiencing. One day I almost gave up and then I Google'd "walking on eggshells". The book about BPD by Randi Kreger was returned. I immediately started reading excerpts from it. The more I read, the more I saw that the underlying ?fear of abandonment? associated with BPD just didn?t fit. However, much of how the disorders manifested themselves in physical, emotional, and verbal abuse were common. This is when I saw NPD referenced. I then went off down the NPD path and it was like a light bulb went off in my head. That?s it. It?s all about ?superiority? in every regard. Everything I read was like reading a book someone was writing about my life.
My own wife has trashed me for years with much worse - believe me. You could always count on one thing: when she would blow up over nothing and call me things like "trailer-trash", "common", or "common-trash", "uneducated", etc. to her that's the lowest of the low. There are numerous other ways that I could go on and on about. As a matter of fact, I have BS in computer science and have worked as software engineer for thirteen years. She has a law degree and has not worked (a paying job anyway) in five years. She was only an in-house attorney for an insurance company for a couple of years before that. No matter how much I've begged and begged and no matter how badly our family has needed the money she has refused to go back to work. She has such a severe sense of entitlement that she believes she's entitled to be a stay at home mom and not work and just demand more and more money that does not exist. She even lies to everyone who will listen and tells them that I don?t give her any money to support our child when I give her $1000 cash per month for that purpose ? plus I pay for our house and ALL of our other bills. I am then left with nothing in the end just hoping I have enough for gas to get back and forth to work.
I sit amazed while watching her befriend important people in the community to get on boards of charities, etc. just because she's a smooth talking "attorney". She has no accomplishments really other than the fact she made it through law school and passed the BAR (though I do understand it's something to be proud of but not something you hang your hat on for the rest of your life). As far as the charities, she will then gripe and complain that she has to go to meetings, events, etc. If she does something for the charity and doesn't get what she thinks is sufficient adulation and admiration, there will be hell to pay - and usually for me. It has nothing to do with the charities she's supposed to be helping. BTW: Yes. She is too good to do regular volunteer work. She only does what she can be in control of ? like being on a board or chairperson of an event/committee. I also volunteer for the charities but it?s to do leg work and go around and actually help the less-fortunate ?trailer trash? she accuse me of being all the time. It?s really pitiful. It's all about the "plausibility" of public persona she tries to convey. It makes me want to puke given what I know about her private persona. I won't even go into the stereo-typical overreactions and rage to the most innocuous comments that are ALWAYS perceived as criticism. I'm usually left scratching my head.
Recently, she made some other false allegations against me that are totally unfounded, untrue, and completely unacceptable and she knows it. She started making these totally inexcusable allegations in the presence of our two year old daughter. She did it all because she thought one of her rages was being recorded - out of her own selfishness (i.e. to cover or deflect from her own behavior). I won't say what she was saying but it was things that could seriously affect the rest of an innocent little two year old's life - especially if she were to repeat it or if it stuck in her mind long enough for her to wonder what momma was talking about. That was the last straw for me.
I'm currently seeking a divorce. I won't get into all of the details; however, I have started seeing my own therapist to help me cope with the anxiety involved, help me remain assertive without being overly aggressive, and, most importantly, how to protect my daughter in all of this when I KNOW that my soon to be ex-wife will replace what little NS I can muster for her now with my daughter when I'm gone. I also realize that I'm human and not perfect and may have other issues unrelated to this situation that I could work on myself.
I have seen my therapist twice now and have some serious concerns about her. This is definitely a slippery slope for me and I risk coming across as narcissistic myself. Again, I understand that I'm not a qualified expert on NPD and that my wife has never had an official diagnosis; however, I'm getting the feeling that my therapist has no direct experience with NPD herself (whether someone clinically diagnosed with it or helping the spouse of someone diagnosed with it). I have asked her directly twice now (and with all due respect) with no response. I don't know if it's a general practice to not address something like this when asked because she's never met my wife - which I could totally understand. Or, if she may be concerned about responding because she knows my wife is an attorney - maybe a combination of the two.
I'm extremely concerned because to be able to help me she (my therapist) needs to understand that that is exactly what I'm going through - whether my wife has been clinically diagnosed with NPD or not. I can outline numerous traits consistent with pathological narcissism without a diagnosis all day long. I also have other concerns related to common sense advice she gives me. I understand where she's coming from and her suggestions would typically work when dealing with a normal logical thinking person on equal footing. However, I'm constantly left trying to reason with the unreasonable or using common sense rationale that may apply one minute and not the next. I have even played a couple of extreme examples of my wife?s behavior for her and it seems like she writes it off as a "bickering" and "arguing" couple - seemingly textbook response for couples in marriage counseling. I've been quite frank with her that I'm not there to work on my marriage. I?m on my way out.
What should I do? Can I get my therapist to detail her experience, if any, with NPD without seeming narcissistic (or "special") myself? How do I get her to totally understand what I'm going through so she can help me? Maybe two visits just isn't enough time to convey it because of it's complicated nature. To be perfectly honest, I?m not concerned so much with the clinical or textbook definition of NPD - though it does fit like a glove. I need to know whether or not she (my therapist) has any experience with, or knowledge of, the nuances and subtleties (and not so subtleties) of what it?s like living with someone that?s pathologically extremely difficult (let?s put it that way) ? someone that can?t be pleased, their concerns, demands, and expectations are all that matter (and if they?re not met there WILL be hell to pay in many ways), there?s one set of rules for this person and another set of rules for the other person, and common sense rationale doesn?t always apply (if ever) and it?s constantly changing. This is the only way my daughter and I can be helped in the long run.
