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  1. #1
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    Ambiguity in relationships

    Ambiguity in relationships

    The basic principle of unconditionality is the creation of ambiguity and limiting constraints. Talking about something puts constraints on it because in the future what you have said about something has to align itself with what it does. The reality is that truth is stranger than fiction. The truth about something or someone, is sometimes the furthest away from what we would imagine. How many times have you had your best friends surprise you in ways you never expected? Or how many times have you had to reevaluate your world because a belief you had turned out to be something completely different than that which you firmly believed? Well, life is like that. The best way you can build relationships and coexist with the environment is by taking it as it comes.

    Ambiguity is one way of making sure that you are never constraining a person who you are dealing with or that you are not infringing on their plans. When you keep things ambiguous, it's easy to change.

    Confirming Arrangements
    One way to make the most advantage of ambiguity is by confirming and making people stick to the arrangements they have made. If you did make an arrangement or an agreement with someone, keep them to it and make them follow through with it. This will make sure that you will be taken seriously. This of course has its own limitations. Nobody wants to be serious. You want to be taken seriously, but you don't want to be taken as serious.

    When dealing with a divorce, it is your responsibility to insist on the relationship in a more serious tone than you are in the mood for to really show that you care about something greater than yourself. If you partner threatens a divorce or divorces you, and you let them go ahead with it, or even encourage the separation, to save face, you are effectively demonstrating that you care more about your ego than you do about the relationship when you first made the vows. We think we are going to save our ego and feel better, but we end up feeling worse and worse because we never see what really matters which is the promise and the relationship.

    Being serious for when you have leverage and power over unimportant things. Think about this. Everybody wants to be takes seriously. Everybody wants to know that if they ask somebody to do something, they'll do it and put the sufficient commitment in it to follow it through to completion. But does anybody want to be serious? No. Would anyone want to live in a world where everything is taken seriously, predictable and exactly as expected? Everybody wants unexpectancy, fun, unpredictability. As soon as something becomes predictable, we take it for granted. Having things unpredictable is what creates life and opportunity.

    Bosses are usually seen as serious and strict, but is you ask the boss themselves whether they want to be serious, they'll tell you no. Everybody will tell you that they just want to be nice and fair to everyone.

    Being serious is for exercising leverage over unimportant things. No matter how important something is, as soon as you take it seriously, it will not come out. Or you will have to go to great lengths to achieve it, after which point you will find out that what you thought was that important wasn't that important after all. Being serious is thus not meant for anything that really is serious and important to you. The purpose of getting people to take you seriously is achieved by getting them to do trivial simple unimportant things to ascertain your position. It is only the position itself that really matters.

    Anything that really is important to you, is meant to be left unambiguous and undefined. People will only do something when they are having fun anyway, and people have fun when things are unexpected.

    We create ambiguity in relationships not to create uncertainty, but to show that that it is not for us or our own benefits we're doing it for. Incidentally, this is the only time we benefit.
    "A smile can not be stolen and it is only good when it is given away."
    http://www.sidwiki.com

  2. #2
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    Re: Ambiguity in relationships

    That is an interesting perspective, Nadyes, and one I couldn't disagree with more. Each relationship should have boundaries. Boundaries are not constraints for another person, unless their idea of a "relationship" is that they can disregard those boundaries. To me, such a relationship, is disrespectful and insensitive at best, and defintaly not worth pursuing. Boundaries are vital to any relationship, intimate or not because they allow us to define our individuality and those spaces that we don't want tampered with. Boundaries allow partners to be in a healthy relationship without loosing themselves in the process.

    As to predictability and seriousness factors: Consistency is important in a relationship. That means, that certain things that are important for the indivuduals involved are done in a consistent manner. Seriousness also has a role for times when partners wish to discuss something of great importance where humor may have a negative effect and make it appear as if one partner is being insensitive to the issue at hand. I think compassion is best to apply in such situations, not jokes, where consistency ensures that the support, care, and sensitivity will remain no matter what issue is discussed...or not.

  3. #3
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    Re: Ambiguity in relationships

    The basic principle of unconditionality is the creation of ambiguity and limiting constraints.
    I looked up the definitions of unconditionality and ambiguity to try and clarify the sentence above for meself.

    unconditionality = not limited by conditions; absolute: an unconditional promise.

    ambiguity = doubtfulness or uncertainty of meaning or intention: to speak with ambiguity; an ambiguity of manner.


    So now i can say that for me the article above is full of it! Ambiguity i mean. i'm not even sure if these words should even be in the same sentence together.. it seems to me they are contradicting eachother. But then i'm not an educated person so I'm open to clarification on this.
    So am I ambigious about the article.. Definately.

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    Re: Ambiguity in relationships

    I agree with Lana and NSA. Since I am going thru a separation, though, I may be biased. (ha ha)--Poohbear

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    Re: Ambiguity in relationships

    Boundaries meaning structure and requirements. By the very definition of functionality there are going to be boundaries, because there will be structure. If the relationship is to work, there's going to be processes occuring which will progress the relationship through several levels. The moundaries themselves, when maintained, will make the relationship functional. You can not have the members of the relationship know of the structure or boundaries in the relationship is they are to be enterntained and interested in the relationship, but there are going to be certain limits if the relationship is to hold. For instance, they can not cheat on eachother, no fighting, stealing, lying etc. Those are boundaries. There are things you can, and can not do, and there are limits to those.

    The crucial aspect is that of ambiguity or that the boundaries are never explicitly agreed uppon, stated or arranged. They are always going to be there, everyone knows they are there, as a matter of fact those boundaries, structures are the very things that make the relationship work, the unspoken rusel which must be upheld, but never communicated if the relationship is to work.

    You know that in a relationship it is mandatory that neither partners cheat, lie, steal, fight, deceive, ignore eachother. Those are very important, those are crucial. But can you communicate those? No. The minute you try to get the other person to promise you that they are not going to cheat, lie, steal etc. you're going to weird them out, and chances are they WILL take advantage of you just because you asked them not to.

    It is my asking, or communicating those boundaries, that we invalidate them. In other words, in order to make sure we do not compromise them, we must not communicate them. This is why when you're on a date never tell the other person you love them, or how you feel etc. The moment you do, guess what happens, that's right, they just want to be friends. By not communicating the social contract, you're implying that it's real and valid. As soon as you communicate the contract, a reason must exist for why you're doing so, in other words the contract is not valid. This is the point where the relationship doesn't work.

    The principle of ambiguity is important in break ups where the other party often feels a need for reason or explanation, "closure". They don't understand what went wrong, or why the other person is leaving them. They want an explanadion, an agreeent, or in other words an arrangement to work our, or define the relationship between them. It is this very arrangaemnt, or constraint which curtails the relationshp.

    Of course in a relationship, there are certain things you have to do: not cheat, not lie, sex, spend time together etc. As soon as you don't do one of those the relatioship is over. But you can never have an arrangement of those things: ok so were going to be honest with eachother, we're gonna have sex three times per week, watch the movies on tuesedays, spend time together etc. As soon as you do that the parther feels forced and the relationship is over. Are there requirements? Of course there are. By definition, if you're not doing certain things, sex, dating etc, you don't have a relationship. But are there any requirements? No. If you as a peson if they require their partner to have sex with them and go out with them, they will tell you no, their partner is free to do what ever they want. Are they really free, no. If there's not enough sex the other partner is going to leave, all the while there's supposed to be no requirements.

    Ambiguity is there to make sure that people are doing what they are doing because they want to, not because there are no requirements. It is by creating the illusion that there are no boundaries, requirements, and structure that you can make sure that the relationship that does occur is natural and unconditional. This was is response to one person wondering about closure. By definition, by getting closure, you're making sure youre relationship can not be undonditional and natural.

    If you want the relationship to work, DON'T TELL THE OTHER PERSON WHAT TO DO. If they are still doing what you want them to, that means you're got a real thing going because you've came up with the same thing without both parties communicating about it. If you do tell a person what to do, from then on, it can not be real. If they do what you tell them, then it's because you told them so, and it's not their own will, maybe a business transaction or black mail of some sort because there must be a reason of why they are doing what you're telling them. You don't have to tell a person what to do that wants to do it. If they don't do it, then again you're out of procedure in the relationship and it's disfunctional.

    By crating uncertainty and unpredictability, you're insuring that the person never feels like they are being told what to do, it onther words, when they do do it, it feels like it's because they wanted to. It is while keeping a feeling of uncertaintly, while stricktly keeping the person within borderlines that the process of creating ambiguity is effective. This is why confirming trivial, unimportants arrangaments is so importnat. In other words, you're allways guiding and in precise control of them, but you never tell them, that is what's meant by ambiguity.
    "A smile can not be stolen and it is only good when it is given away."
    http://www.sidwiki.com

  6. #6
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    Re: Ambiguity in relationships

    There was a fellow that was wondering about closure in a relationship. Closure is only a verbal attempt to control the person verbally. Verbal control doesn't work because relationships are not logical. Ambiguity in a relationship means you're going to take that verbal aspect of trying to control the person out of it and instead influence them with your actions behaviors. In other words, instead of telling the person not to cheat on you, you're going to go out and get a fling of your own, showing them what it feel like to be cheated on. This brings the point home, they see what it feels like because they are living it through in their own skin and it's not very pleasant. This has power, it's based on feelings and it has an effect. Don't try to control the person verbaly, exercise your control by your actions, behaviors in real life. The minuter you try to get closure verbaly, it means you have no power in real life which means you don't have a chance even before you start.
    "A smile can not be stolen and it is only good when it is given away."
    http://www.sidwiki.com

  7. #7
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    Re: Ambiguity in relationships

    okay i have to ask...
    Nayyes... are these you own views?? if they are.. what influences them?

    or the views of another.. an article maybe??

    nsa

  8. #8
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    Re: Ambiguity in relationships

    Quote Originally Posted by Nadyes View Post
    In other words, instead of telling the person not to cheat on you, you're going to go out and get a fling of your own, showing them what it feel like to be cheated on. This brings the point home, they see what it feels like because they are living it through in their own skin and it's not very pleasant. This has power, it's based on feelings and it has an effect. Don't try to control the person verbaly, exercise your control by your actions, behaviors in real life. The minuter you try to get closure verbaly, it means you have no power in real life which means you don't have a chance even before you start.
    So, what you're saying is: "Two wrongs make a right. If he/she cheats on me, I'll cheat on him/her and show how it feels!"

    I couldn't disagree more. There's an assumption, implicit in this kind of thinking, that the other person isn't smart enough to know that what they did is wrong. I don't believe that's true. They know what they're doing is wrong, and they know it will cause hurt. They just don't think they'e going to get caught. By doing what you suggest, you drag yourself down to their level and the two of you are mucking around in the mud together. That's not power. That's degradation, in my opinion.

  9. #9
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    Re: Ambiguity in relationships

    Quote Originally Posted by Nadyes View Post
    You know that in a relationship it is mandatory that neither partners cheat, lie, steal, fight, deceive, ignore eachother. Those are very important, those are crucial. But can you communicate those? No. The minute you try to get the other person to promise you that they are not going to cheat, lie, steal etc. you're going to weird them out, and chances are they WILL take advantage of you just because you asked them not to.

    It is my asking, or communicating those boundaries, that we invalidate them. In other words, in order to make sure we do not compromise them, we must not communicate them. This is why when you're on a date never tell the other person you love them, or how you feel etc. The moment you do, guess what happens, that's right, they just want to be friends. By not communicating the social contract, you're implying that it's real and valid. As soon as you communicate the contract, a reason must exist for why you're doing so, in other words the contract is not valid. This is the point where the relationship doesn't work.

    The principle of ambiguity is important in break ups where the other party often feels a need for reason or explanation, "closure". They don't understand what went wrong, or why the other person is leaving them. They want an explanadion, an agreeent, or in other words an arrangement to work our, or define the relationship between them. It is this very arrangaemnt, or constraint which curtails the relationshp.

    Of course in a relationship, there are certain things you have to do: not cheat, not lie, sex, spend time together etc. As soon as you don't do one of those the relatioship is over. But you can never have an arrangement of those things: ok so were going to be honest with eachother, we're gonna have sex three times per week, watch the movies on tuesedays, spend time together etc. As soon as you do that the parther feels forced and the relationship is over. Are there requirements? Of course there are. By definition, if you're not doing certain things, sex, dating etc, you don't have a relationship. But are there any requirements? No. If you as a peson if they require their partner to have sex with them and go out with them, they will tell you no, their partner is free to do what ever they want. Are they really free, no. If there's not enough sex the other partner is going to leave, all the while there's supposed to be no requirements.

    I'm sorry, Nadyes, but you couldn't be further from the truth if you commandeered a jet to get there, as I see it!

    Life with another person is about sharing, not about one person knowing and the other person guessing. People, for the most part, know the basic dos and don'ts of relationships in their own cultural setting (It's important to remember that cultures vary). They may not live up to all of them all the time, but they know what they're supposed to be doing, and what they're not supposed to be doing. Yet, nobody is perfect and people make mistakes. Some people are hurt by said mistakes and others can deal with them without taking them personally.

    I can say with absolute certainty that just because one member of a relationship tells a lie, or crosses a line, that doesn't mean that the relationship is unequivically over; nor, is a relationship positively doomed without sex. There is such a thing as talking it out and making one's feelings clear. Yes, this IS most definitely setting boundaries. Boundaries are required in order for people to get along effectively and accomplish good things together.

    Everyone doesn't have the same set of boundaries. Everyone doesn't see the basics of a relationship in the same way. What is wrong to one person can be right to another. Both have a right to exist, but they probably won't exist well together. Yet, until they know that their ideas regarding life and living it differ, they may not realize they're not meant to share that life together. In a case like that, ambiguity is exactly what's clouding the issues.

    In the relationship you describe, there's always a tacit threat: "Step over that invisible line I've drawn in the invisible sand, and I'll show you!" It's inherently dishonest, and that will be its downfall. Better to know where the lines are drawn up front. That way, if you cross one you and any partner in the relationship will know without question what line was crossed, by whom, when, and what it means. When the boundaries are clear there is less chance of misunderstandings.

  10. #10
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    Re: Ambiguity in relationships

    Hi Nadyes;
    There is a vast difference between dating and being in a relationship. Dating is a very important phase that is more like….hmm….an audition for a relationship. During that phase, both parties try to find out as much as they can about each other but without promises. So, if, for example, I went out on a date with a gentleman and he began to tell me that he loves me and asked me to promise certain things to him, I probably wouldn’t pursue it any further. The reason isn’t because he’s weird or that his ideals are wrong, but simply because personally, for me, the timing isn’t right and I’d be feeling like being rushed into something I know nothing of. But more importantly, I would also need to have some requirements met before I make (or ask for) any promises. During the dating phase it is not you doing the deciding: the other person is also making their assessments of you and whether your beliefs and values would fit with theirs. It’s a complicated process but one we all go through before we find that one person that has the same wants as we do. From there, it doesn’t necessarily get easier, because that’s the stage where the boundaries you speak of come into play. Once you determine that you and your partner will actively pursue a relationship (i.e. you’re not dating and you both want to move forward) that’s when boundaries get set.

    During the dating phase you shouldn’t pretend as if you don’t have any boundaries because that’ll be misleading to the other person and ultimately, the relationship will fail. (Incidentally: many feel that withholding pertinent information is the same thing as lying: so, if you don’t want others to lie to you, don’t start by lying to them) However, you don’t dump all your requirements on the other person either because it will overwhelm them. Think of it as a dance: graceful, enjoyable, as you cover the entire floor, step by step, all the while being very watchful and mindful of your dance partners every step. Sometimes you let them lead…sometimes you take the lead. After some time, if you and your partner feel like taking it a step further, that’s when you are entering a relationship and that’s where boundaries need to be set and communicated. When that happens, you both know you want to be in a relationship and you both should have a very good idea of what the other is all about, so that eliminates much of what you mention in your post above. There is no guess work, “Does he/she want to be with me or will they freak out if I tell them I will not tolerate dirty socks on the floor?”

    Don’t get me wrong, relationships are not easy and anyone that tells you they are probably doesn’t have one. It’s hard work. You will step on each others toes (because the dance continues ) but you both know you want to be there and that you’ve graduated to a different kind of discovery stage. This is the time to tell your partner what aspects of relationship are crucial to you, and for them to do the same. And this also may be the stage where a possibility exists that you or they may decide that the arrangement won’t fit the needs, that it wont’ work. That’s the risk, and that’s why dating is important while people involved get a really good sense of one another and don’t rush anything.

    If you choose to pursue a relationship that does not fit you, where you have to hide, misrepresent, or manipulate the other person, then it is you that is not being true to yourself, not the other person, and you both will end up hurt. It is not easy to stand your ground when the desire to be in a relationship is overwhelming. But in taking that stand, a person exhibits respect for him or her self, respect for the other person, and it is one of the strongest expressions of self love (It’s also a good way to make life-long friends).

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