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    Dale Carnegie, posted by Cat Dancer

kiddo

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Jun 8, 2005
Messages
21
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1
Hey all - Jan here.

I am fairly new to therapy - have only been in it one year. I see a counselor at the college I attend. It took me so long to open up to Karen. But I eventually started to show her my true self and feelings. I gained a trust in this woman that I had never had with anyone before in my whole life. It was amazing to finally have someone there that actually understood and did not judge! Wow!

So the year went on and she helped my a great deal, even got me to stop cutting. I got on great meds, and started to feel good again. When I first started telling her about my self injury, she told me that she would "not take that away from me". I was absolutely stunned that a therapist would actually not repremand me for cutting. It was what I desperately needed to hear. I began to look foward to session each week.

buuuuut that happiness did not last. I began to realize that I had really strong feelings for her, number one. And number 2, she told me that she was leaving the school. She was just an intern, and therfore just had a job there for one year.

Its like my school's counseling center brings them in, gets crazy people like me genuinely attached, then seperates us. It is ridiculous, and has done me much harm. So she told me about her leaving, July 30th to be exact, and I began immediately dreading that date. (even started to cut again) The truth was that I was beginning to need her. Need her every week, even more. She gets me through the week. It is something constant that I can depend on and look foward to. I knew that it was not only the therapy that I needed, but her as well! I NEED KAREN!

So the year has progressed, and in that time my feelings have defenitely not gone away. I got up the courage to tell her how I felt, and eventually told her that I loved her. She is not a moron, and knew it already. We have been talking about it ever since, trying to help me understand them and all of that therapy BS.

I have so many fantasies about her. Sexual and non sexual. Some are that I just wish and crave a hug. Or that she would tell me about her life. I want her to love me and hold me and tell me it is all going to get better. I want to be friends with her. It does not help whatsoever that she is the most BEAUTIFUL woman I have ever seen! I want her to talk to me outside of session. I want her to care for me. I want to throw her down and make passionate love on the little therapy couch. I want her to open up to me and go out with me. But I realize that these are fantasies that will never ever come true. Her boundaries are soooooo ridiculously strict. She wont even touch me. I dont know a goddamn thing about the woman. I have built her up so much in my head that she is now 'super human'.

I recently wrote her a love letter. Saying much of the things above. I have beggged her for weeks now not to leave - crying and pleading her. I have looked up some of her information online. (Becomming a stalker) Not a second goes by where she is not on my mind. The butterflies are always there, she haunts me - she rules my life. I would do ANYTHING for her. even die for her. These feelings are SO not normal. And the woman is leaving me in 2 months! She has said that once our sessions are terminated then she will not talk to me anymore. No letters, no email, no visits. Karen E is going to DIE TO ME on july 30th.

i am beginning to think it was all a mistake going in there, even though she did help me stop cutting. I feel I am worse now than I was beforehand. There is so much love and rage toward her. How could she possibly leave me alone? What is so wrong about being there for me later on in case I have a crisis? Dont some therapists keep in contact with patients? Dont some therapists hug their patients? Did I just get unlucky here? Ugg I dont know what to do, want to die, and time is rapidly creeping closer to the day she will vanish from my life. She warned me that hospitalization might be an option if I couldnt deal with her loss. If Karen cared for me at all, she would be there for me after July 30. Nothing drastic; not a friendship or romantic relationship. Just somehting as simple as leetting me call her or email her if I am sitting there about to end it all. Is that too much to ask!?

Thank you, thank you SO much for reading.
 

ThatLady

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Nov 4, 2004
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regretting going into therapy!

What you're undergoing is called transference, hon, and it's not an uncommon phenomenon in the therapist/patient relationship. It's really hard on the patient to feel these emotions, and it isn't easy on the therapist, either. Yet, it happens a lot.

You need to be looking for another therapist. Perhaps, Karen can help you to find someone to take over for her when she moves on with her life. That's what's happening, you know. Karen is getting on with her life, as you must get on with yours. She has done what she can do to help you. Now, you must take the things she's helped you to learn and prove to yourself what can be done with them. In that way, you will honor the relationship you built with this woman, and the wonderful things she's helped you to learn.

In any professional relationship, when emotions run too hot it's time to call it a day. In the therapist/patient relationship, because the danger of transference is so high, when it happens the best thing the therapist can do is to recommend the patient to another therapist. That's the professional thing to do, the kind thing to do, and the right thing to do. It shows the therapist DOES care for the patient.

Good luck to you, hon. I know you're hurting, but try to understand what has happened. Be thankful to Karen for all she's given you and wish her a happy, productive life. Then, go out and work on finding one for yourself. :eek:)
 

kiddo

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Jun 8, 2005
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regretting going into therapy!

hey thanks for the comment. I really REALLY appreciate it.

I have indeed read about transferance. I read 'In Session' by Deborah Lott which talks all about it. I have defenitely recognized it as such. Unfortunately that relevation, although comforting to know that it is common and I am not alone, does not help my strong feelings go away. I get stuck on people, and I know that two years from now I am still going to be wishing for my karen. Still be obsessing over her, and still getting the butterflies. It has happened before with another person.

Do you not think that her boundaries are too strict? I have heard of other therapists hugging and not cutting off contact etc...

Maybe I should look for a therapist that does not have these hardcore boundaries in the future, do you think that would be wise for me?

Sometimes I just feel so damn hopeless. Like life is not worth living at all. Maybe my medications are failing to work or something.
 

ThatLady

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regretting going into therapy!

Actually, most therapists try to avoid excessive physical contact with their patients precisely because of the danger of transference. The boundaries are there to protect the therapist/patient relationship.

What's probably best for you is to approach your problem of getting "stuck on people" with your next therapist. It can't be pleasant for you to suffer so when those you become close to move on with their lives. It happens to all of us, at one time or another. While it's never easy, it should not become disabling.

Try not to look at this as being abandoned, hon. That's not what it is, at all. Karen is behaving as any good professional should behave. She's given you the help that she could give you. I know she wishes you well. You must do the same for her. Show her how much she has helped you by looking at the future as a time of learning and growing, not of obsessing over that which you feel is lost. It is not lost. The gains you have made will go with you.
 

Suzette

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May 16, 2005
Messages
138
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16
regretting going into therapy!

Hello Jan,

It is quite understandable that one gets special feelings for a therapist. Like you already wrote:

"I gained a trust in this woman that I had never had with anyone before in my whole life. It was amazing to finally have someone there that actually understood and did not judge!"

You are not the only one who has special feelings for a therapist. Lots of people have that.

However, you seem to forget that she is your therapist and there to help you. And that you needed therapy because things were not going well in your life. You seem to forget your own problems and in fact, ask her to solve them by staying with you.

It is like you have seen a vegetable garden and you want to own that. Your own vegetable garden does not grow whatsoever. The thing is that a therapist helps you to make things grow in your own garden. You will have to do it yourself!!

Therapy means also being able to look at your own behavior and benefit from that but somehow you have lost that will to do so! Look, this is what you wrote:

"[...] trying to help me understand them and all of that therapy BS."

If the BS stands for bull sh** (I am not sure though!) then this means you don't value therapy anymore, but just the woman Karen.

It is hard that she leaves. It is always hard when a therapist you feel good with, leaves. It really is. In your case however, it seems like you want to die. That is not normal.

She is not the solution to all your problems although it feels like it.

She is not...!

You are the one who needs further help in dealing with this situation and dealing with everything that is still not going well. Focussing on her won't make you feel better in the end.

Get yourself together and acknowledge that she might have triggered with her leaving perhaps a deep issue you have, with women.

Instead of asking how to get her as a friend, ask help of how to cope with this. What does it mean to you to lose an important person? Can you deal with it anyway...?

Now those questions and reflections will bring you further. Don't turn out to be a stalker, that is trying to manipulate a situation YOU cannot handle.

I hope you will post again with questions regarding yourself!


Suzette
 

kiddo

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Jun 8, 2005
Messages
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1
regretting going into therapy!

Thanks Suzette. I am going to try really hard to get myself together. It is hard because she is always on my mind and I am infatuated with her. Every little thing reminds me of her. I have this feeling that because she is leaving me and cutting off all contact, she really doesn't care about anything we have accomplished this year or me as a person. Deep down I know this is not true. I know it has nothing to do with me at all.

I am not going to stop therapy. She is going to reccomend another one for me.

But for some reason I see visions of myself 3 years from now still crying over my love. I also see visions of myself with a gun at my head about to pull the trigger and thinking...If only I could talk to Karen now. It depresses me further that if anything DID happen to me she would never even know.

How can I know if she really cares about me, anyway? Maybe she doesnt care, and she is only getting paid to care! I feel like I would know she genuinely cared for me if she were to keep in contact with me after termination. I think that is one of the reasons I want it so bad.

I am a stalker. I actually paid money to get some of her information online. Like birthday/address/etc. How absolutely messed up is that? The guilt I feel is overwhelming. Not to mention I have a partner who I am suppose to be in love with.

I am getting desperate. There have been way too many losses in my life, and I am simply not prepared to deal with another.
 

David Baxter

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regretting going into therapy!

How can I know if she really cares about me, anyway? Maybe she doesnt care, and she is only getting paid to care! I feel like I would know she genuinely cared for me if she were to keep in contact with me after termination.
There is a big difference between caring for a person as a human being, or as a human being who is also a client, and caring in the way that you mean.
 

Suzette

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Joined
May 16, 2005
Messages
138
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16
regretting going into therapy!

Hi Jan,

Although it is very difficult to keep listening when you are in a situation like this, you do seem to pick up things here. Now that is what I am very happy with, because then you can keep correcting yourself. That is really a good thing :)

ThatLady already told you valuable things a.o. about the fact that Karen has to act professional.

You wrote such a good thing at the end of your last post. You wrote:

"There have been way too many losses in my life, and I am simply not prepared to deal with another."

Who would....? I guess the hole in your heart becomes bigger and bigger so the attempts to put a person there who actually will stay and cover more or less the losses, will be more. That is so human Jan...

Yet like you also agreed, you have to keep your brains a bit together to see what is the best thing for you to do. And you seem to be willing to do that, you deserve respect for that.

You wrote: "But for some reason I see visions of myself 3 years from now still crying over my love. I also see visions of myself with a gun at my head about to pull the trigger and thinking...If only I could talk to Karen now. It depresses me further that if anything DID happen to me she would never even know."

Now this is a very good way to start with your new therapist. He or she will know about your previous sessions and will also know how hard it is and was for you to let go of Karen. Perhaps Karen stands also for all the losses you had before in your life (unconsciously). Then she gets also really big.

Again I quote you:

"There have been way too many losses in my life, and I am simply not prepared to deal with another."

Grant yourself the help trying to deal with it. I truly hope you will experience that, after all, it is for the better this way.


Suzette

p.s. a flower for you

http://www.iblossom.com/images/pouflargebright.jpg
 

kiddo

Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
21
Points
1
regretting going into therapy!

wow you are a great person, suzettte.

I have done alot of thinking and writing within the past couple days (much more so than usual) and have pretty much accepted that I can cry, mope, complain, and beg as much as I want but it is not going to change anything. I wish it would, but it wont. I am not ok, but at least I have gotten it through my thick head that threatening karen and making her feel bad for leaving wont do a freaking thing.

I am not saying I am better at all. Not saying it wont be harder than hell to see the most brilliant and beautiful woman go. But at least I am accepting that I can not do anything about that. I think I am accepting that...I am trying really really hard.

So. At the moment I have decided that my next step is to get karen to help me to find another therapist. Then I am planning to wish her well in her future. I have written some positive things down that I am planning to say to her.

Then lastly I am going to ask one favor of her, which I think that if she agrees to do will help me cope with her loss so much better. I am going to ask that she simply not forget me, perhaps think of me every once and a while.

(I wrote this earlier)
karen, know this:
Every single day of your life there will be a crazy girl out there that thinking about you. Loving the memory of you. Some crazy girl out there thinks you are the most perfect and stunningly beautiful woman to ever walk the Earth. A girl who's dreams and fantasies are all linked to you. A girl who you have saved.
The millions of tears of despair I have shed will have to turn into tears of happiness, for I am not able to trick myself into hating you. There is no rage, no anger and no hate. All thats in my heart is a longing so strong and a love so deep.

Do you think it is too much to ask of her to grant me this one wish? To get her assurance that she wont forget me?

*hopes to god you wont say its a bad idea*

love to u!
jan

oh ps ( this is my plan for now. I am sure after we meet wednesday, I will be back to square one and feeling hopeless once agian. I will most likely feel I cant go on, just like I felt when i first posted. Thats what she does to me. Reminds me just how much I love and want her. But for now, at least, I am feeling a BIT better.)
 

Suzette

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Joined
May 16, 2005
Messages
138
Points
16
regretting going into therapy!

Hi Jan,

You come across as you can keep your brains together. The feelings are strong so you need that. I am glad you can write and that that helps you!

"I think I am accepting that...I am trying really really hard."

Take your time... this is very, very difficult. And your new therapist will help you too.

What you want to tell Karen is straight from your heart. Yes, I think you can ask her that you hope so much she will not forget you. Leave the assurance up to her how she wants that, just tell your wish.

It is so sweet that you want to wish her the best for the future.

If you feel like you want to stalk again, then please don't Jan. You can post here or write down what your feelings are but trying to force someone into a situation she does not want, that is not fair.

I don't expect you to feel better soon. No, that would not be realistic. Trying to cope is difficult enough now.

I sure hope that you will manage to get through these coming weeks.

Love,

Suzette
 

Suzette

Member
Joined
May 16, 2005
Messages
138
Points
16
regretting going into therapy!

Jan, what comes to my mind is this:

Try to broaden your horizon a bit. Now it is like I see you standing one foot away from a big yellow brick wall. All you see is yellow (Karen) and no other colors. You are too close to the wall.

Try to resist being fixed on her and force yourself to do other things that distract you like joining a club and meeting new people. Then you will experience that life does not end at all. It certainly does not, you need new experiences.

(Perhaps others can comment on this too.)
 

kiddo

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Jun 8, 2005
Messages
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1
well...

Well, I went in and read Karen the passage I wrote above, along with a letter wishing her well. She said that she was very touched by it. This of course was so great for me to hear.

SHe didnt promise or assure me that she would think of me/remember me, but from her reaction I can pretty much tell that I do not have to worry.

I left that session feeling so great. I actually had a smile on my face as I walked home. (that does not happen very often leaving her)

Some days I feel as if I am ok. But then something will come along that reminds me of her. Sometimes I feel like I will not be ok unless she is in my life. Earlier I was feeling like the only thing to make my tears go away would be for her to hold me and take me away.

We have about 5 more sessions left before she leaves. Oh man I am going to miss her so much. I am to the point where I am not sure what to talk to her about in our sessions anymore. I have already expressed my love and we have talked about it. I feel like if I keep bringing up the same issues about her leaving and how much i will miss her and how much I love her, the worse I will feel. Like a reminder to me that hey- the woman you love is going to be long gone before you know it. I kind of dont want to talk about it!!! does that make sense?

<edit by admin: the photo might be considered an invasion of your therapist's privacy>

She brought up a valid point, that she was godlike in my eyes. It is so true. When I see her I do not see any flaws, she is perfection. SHe is everything that I want to be like. I have also given her this extreme power over my emotions thoughts and feelings. She is in total control of me, will always be. That is pretty god-like to me. Next thing you know I will be praying to her! haha.

but yeah thats how things are going so far. Have any advice on what to do with the last 5 or so sessions??
 

Lynnie

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Jun 24, 2005
Messages
19
Points
1
Regreting Therapy

hi WantingKee, i can surely understand what you are going through. I too am going through the same thing. I have been having my feelings for Lil lyfor 5 months already. She knows it. and of course we have talked about it alot in therapy, and she has explained to me that it is transference. i do not think so as my feelings for her are real love, i am now going through the temptation, not to aproach her of any way, i do not want to see another therapist, cause she has been so good at helping me deal with other issues. I know this is eating me up inside, cause when i am not busy doing something, i think about her day and night. she is married of course, and gee, i wish it could be more that a client/therapist relationship.
 

Lynnie

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Jun 24, 2005
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1
hang in there wantingKee, i knowsomeone else will come along and return your feelings.i will keep you in my prayers. your letter to karen was very well done.
 

kiddo

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Jun 8, 2005
Messages
21
Points
1
regretting going into therapy!

Hey there Lynnie - Thank you for responding to me.

I dont know what to say other than I am extatic to find someone else dealing with love for a therapist. Sometimes I feel so alone and like no one understands what I am going through. But you do. And I know what you are going through - exactly what you are feeling. I think of karen night and day. She has known for months about my feelings for her as well.

The bad thing is that I am in a committed relationship and and also feeling guilty about loving karen. Yet another burden to deal with. I mean jesus christ, my girlfriend is laying right here sleeping and I am gushing about another woman. How aweful is that?

Is Lilly leaving you soon too, or are you continuing your therapy? Perhapse we can get through this together.

love, Jan
 

Lynnie

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Jun 24, 2005
Messages
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Points
1
regretting going into therapy!

hi wantingKee, thank you for your reply,sorry this took so long to answer. i am new to this. no Lilly is not leaving. I decide i want to continue seeing her until i know i do not need therapy anymore. i can understand the feeling you are having especially if you are in a relationship. i am not. i am trying to fine someone. but as now all i can think about is my therapist. i see her tomorrow and i have been counting the days since last week to see her. she really puts a smile on my face. i want her, gee if only she wasn't straight. but the good part is she is very open mined and understands what my feelings are. she has to obey her bounderies. and i must respect that. she is so beautiful inside and out. i will love her always.

Love, Deb
 

AL

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Jun 27, 2005
Messages
15
Points
1
My freedom ends when.....

Hi friend,
When I read about your case of transference, I remembered mine and had hearty laugh at myself. Here is something to share--
I was brought up in ‘majority male’ society to extent that I never talked to women other than my mom and aunts. Young girls have always been a deficient area in my social surrounds. With this background, when I ran into therapy in front of a woman hardly 4-5 years elder to me, all that happened, you must be knowing very well. I used to get so nervous before her appointment that I kept on wondering near the building for 30-40 minute facing acute anxiety. When communication went smoother, my attraction shot up like anything, concluding that she was the one!!!
When I realize that she could be married, I became ready to accept her as a friend or even a sister-figure. Thinking about her became one of my main stressors. So I decided to present the topic to her. I gave her most of the details in writing except those might give a clue that that was about her. Her feedback was very objective, but I revealed that I was not going to take any direct action then she asked me to dig deep within myself to understand truest motives. I jotted down them saying---“I was looking for a female companion with expectation- 80% weight for intellect, high standards, commitment to knowledge, resourcefulness & capable of motivating others and 20% for sensual or sexual pleasure, but no way an illicit liaison.” My priorities got clearer. What was remaining was working upon them.
I had to accept that the other person might have reservation of her own. And if she compromises them for my sake then it goes contrary to my priority of ‘high standards’ ethic-wise! – Ultimately defeating majority purpose of the exercise and I need to give up! I discussed this view with her. She briefly appreciated my view and stopped discussion as if telling me ‘this is it, now stick to it’. Then instead of expecting more discussion on the same, I went on searching views in varied literature to accept my ‘un-digested’ decision.
What I found was—1] I went to her for help and expecting any personal favor is taking an undue advantage or simply exploitation. When she is kind to me, exploitation is not the right reciprocation even when I label it as ‘love’. 2] Expecting that she should be pro towards me despite all odds is nothing more than over-inflating self worth and assuming that everybody else gets possessed by best things alone. 3] Plucking a beautiful flower from tree to adore my personal vase is like preventing it from ripening into sugary fruit. My vase may not have even needed nutrition to keep it fresh forever. 4] My freedom ends when it violates the freedom of another individual. 5] With a simple adjustment today, tomorrow might bring me a brighter picture, something I am not able to comprehend today. 6] Finally, good women are not exhausted from this world just yet!!!
All this needed were conscious efforts and finite time. I am very thankful to her for helping me to be much independent in this area at least. It boosted my confidence in her too. I started visiting her quite neutrally.
This had another advantage too. When I had to speak about my disapprovals, I was very straightforward without interference of any other irrational element.
 
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