• Quote of the Day
    "Hope is the thing with feathers, That perches in the soul,
    And sings the tune without the words, And never stops at all."
    Emily Dickinson, posted by Daniel

CeeBee2230

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Greetings,

I'm not sure that this is the right venue for my 26 year interest in the 'Cause of ADHD'. I am a retired Youth Counselor with experience working with 13-17 year old Boy's in a State Incarceration Facility. I believe that 25% of these Boy's would fit the DSM-V criteria for ADHD. I believe that 'Risky Behavior' may be the Common Denominator. Comments, Thoughts or Suggestions Appreciated.

CeeBee2230
 

David Baxter

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I worked years (decades) ago in correctional facilities as well and I would agree that the incidence of ADHD and other impulse control disorders is higher in that population than in the general population.

On the other hand, I saw a lot of offenders with addictions that began when they were misdiagnosed as children and medicated with stimulants to try to make them more compliant in the classroom or at home.

Somewhere around DSM IV (or possibly DSM III-R) the diagnostic criteria for ADHD was changed. Previously, one of the criteria for the diagnosis of ADHD was that "other causes for the impulsive behavior or distractibility be ruled out". Once this requirement was removed, the number of ADHD diagnoses in young people increased significantly and eventually some of those misdiagnoses found there way into rehab and correctional populations.

There are several conditions that can be related to distractibility and impulsivity, including head injuries and learning disabilities of various types, which were also over-represented in correctional populations.
 

Daniel

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Side notes:


 

CeeBee2230

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I worked years (decades) ago in correctional facilities as well and I would agree that the incidence of ADHD and other impulse control disorders is higher in that population than in the general population.

On the other hand, I saw a lot of offenders with addictions that began when they were misdiagnosed as children and medicated with stimulants to try to make them more compliant in the classroom or at home.

Somewhere around DSM IV (or possibly DSM III-R) the diagnostic criteria for ADHD was changed. Previously, one of the criteria for the diagnosis of ADHD was that "other causes for the impulsive behavior or distractibility be ruled out". Once this requirement was removed, the number of ADHD diagnoses in young people increased significantly and eventually some of those misdiagnoses found there way into rehab and correctional populations.

There are several conditions that can be related to distractibility and impulsivity, including head injuries and learning disabilities of various types, which were also over-represented in correctional populations.
Thanks for your comments David.

I believe that 'We Humans do and say things (Behave) because we receive some benefit from that behavior, either consciously or unconsciously'. So, what does a 13 year old Boy get out of pulling the 'Fire Alarm' at school? Any ideas?

CeeBee2230
 

David Baxter

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Hard to say as a general question.

Attention? A break from lessons/boredom?
 

CeeBee2230

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Taking risks can give them a little rush of that dopamine that they are missing.


Taking risks can give them a little rush of that dopamine that they are missing.
And I agree 100% Daniel.....Let's turn the clock back 119 years to March 6th, 1902 and the second Goulstonian Lecture by Dr. George F. Still at the Royal College of Physicians (London).
Dr. Still mentioned a young Boy in his Study of 20 Children
(15 Boys and 5 Girls). The Boy was from a prominent and wealthy Family and had a "generous allowance". The Boy would steal items from his classmates, and later that day, he would take those items to Town and give them to other Kids.
Dr. Still refers to this as very odd behavior that the Boy would steal items from others, but really did not want the items he had stolen. Dr. Still stated, "in this thieving, for instance, there is sometimes a handsome generosity".

We cant blame Dr. Still for missing the neurotransmitter thing
because little was known about neurotransmitters, emotions,
homeostasis and allostatic load back in 1902.

I've attached a study by Joseph M. Carver, Ph.D. about
Chemical Imbalance
 

CeeBee2230

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Hard to say as a general question.

Attention? A break from lessons/boredom?
t
Hard to say as a general question.

Attention? A break from lessons/boredom?
I ran across the attached Article: Why Do Stimulants Work for Treatment of ADHD? I agree with paragraphs 1 and 2, but my research leads me in a new direction after that. Please read both pages.
 

CeeBee2230

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You forgot to add the attachment.

Is this the article you meant?

Yes David....Click on the hyperlink: Why Do Stimulants Work for Treatment of ADHD? A Partial Paragraph will come up. Click on the box ......Read More. The first paragraph....Most Parents...and ending...about this paradox. The second paragraph ....Kids with ADHD....and ending....need to self stimulate. David, these 2 paragraphs are the basis for understanding 'The Cause of ADHD.
 

CeeBee2230

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David,
I have been trying to verify the Authorship of this Article. I have contacted The Children's Hospital and and requested Authorship information. Hopefully, I'll hear from them this next week. Thanks for your continued interest.

CeeBee2230
 

CeeBee2230

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David,
I have been trying to verify the Authorship of this Article. I have contacted The Children's Hospital and and requested Authorship information. Hopefully, I'll hear from them this next week. Thanks for your continued interest.

CeeBee2230
It has been a week now and 'No Response from either Children's Hospital or the Mom Doc that wrote the Article. All I really wanted to do is 'thank Her' for giving us license to think about a 'Paradox' in another WAY. (para 1). Para 2, the following sentence is 'Spot On'. "When you give a stimulant to such a child, they no longer have such a urgent need to self-stimulant". So our ADHD children and young adults are presenting behaviors that are risky, obnoxious and non-compliant in order to(sub-consciously) increase their systemic Dopamine to an acceptable level. This process also has another name. Allostasis: The cost of 'physiological adaptation'.
 

gooblax

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It has been a week now and 'No Response from either Children's Hospital or the Mom Doc that wrote the Article. All I really wanted to do is 'thank Her' for giving us license to think about a 'Paradox' in another WAY.
That's nice that you wanted to thank the author. I'd guess that it might be a bit frustrating for you that they never responded.
I don't have any experience or prior info about ADHD but did find that statement to be a useful explanation.
 

CeeBee2230

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That's nice that you wanted to thank the author. I'd guess that it might be a bit frustrating for you that they never responded.
I don't have any experience or prior info about ADHD but did find that statement to be a useful explanation.
Yes!, If I could talk to this pediatrician, I would tell Her that there is nothing wrong, either mentally or physically, with ADHD diagnosed children or young adults. They are 'dancing to a different drummer'; there subconscious minds. After all, All Behavior initiates in the subconscious.
 

CeeBee2230

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This is probably a good time to talk about the Stimulant Paradox. Why does giving a Stimulant to 'what appears to be a over-simulated child, tend to calm them down? "It seems so counter-intuitive" says our Mom Doc. Answer: The chemical stimulant takes over doing 'what the child's ADHD behavior was doing. So what do Stimulants do when they enter the Central Nervous System (CNS). Stimulants are re-uptake inhibiters; they change the normal function of the neurons in the neuronal cleft. (google neuron function). Basically, stimulants make more Dopamine(DA),and Serotonin(SER) available for proper signaling throughout the efficacy of the medication.
"Do you mean to tell me that "self-stimulating" is the same thing as SELF MEDICATING? Yes I do. The Hallmark of ADHD is 'Lower
Than Normal Dopamine Levels'. Any Questions?
 
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CeeBee2230

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I had to modify my above statement to include Serotonin because I almost forgot the young ladies. Normal Dopamine and Serotonin Levels vary based on Age and Gender. In the case of young boy's and girl's with the ADHD diagnoses, young boy's have a lower than normal Dopamine level, while young girl's have a lower than normal level of Serotonin. This also explains why their behaviors differ. Prof. John Ratey, in his book 'Spark', states that Dopamine and Serotonin levels tend to rise and fall together. In the case of exercise, meditation etc., they tend to rise. So, this begs the question, "What is causing Dopamine(DA) and Serotonin(SER) levels to 'FALL'?
 

CeeBee2230

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At this point I can see only two possibilities: Genetics, or the environment. Can anyone see any additional possibilities????
 

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