More threads by David Baxter PhD

David Baxter PhD

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Is your daughter too good for her own good?
by Sarah Boesveld, The Globe and Mail
Sunday, Sep. 20, 2009

Be a good girl? That's a bad idea, says author Rachel Simmons, whose new books delves into the idea that the good-girl image sets too-high standards that are impossible to achieve

All parents want their daughter to be good. But while she's getting straight As and building a killer r?sum?, few stop to think: Does she really know herself? Is she being authentic? Is she happy? Too many girls today are so eager to please that they're not developing vital qualities that will help them grow into powerful, capable women, writes Rachel Simmons in her new book The Curse of the Good Girl: Raising Authentic Girls with Courage and Confidence . The educator and author tells us why the good-girl ideal has got to go.

What's ?the curse of the good girl?' It's the pressure to be nice all the time, liked by everyone, unreasonably selfless, modest and flawless at everything you undertake. It's such an impossible set of standards to achieve that anyone who tries is automatically setting herself up to fail. A good girl also lives with a sense that she's never going to be good enough.

What's the fallout? You will constantly be overwhelmed by your mistakes. Girls trying to be good don't often devote as much time as they could to improving their performance and instead are often felled by overwhelming feelings of shame or self-criticism. ? If you don't shake the curse, you don't have an opportunity to know and express the fullest extent of who you are.

You say good girls should aim to become real girls. A real girl is able to know how she is feeling and act on that in her relationships. She's able to express a full range of emotions, so she is not just only accessing positive emotions but she can express feelings that are uncomfortable. She does not always worry about what someone else thinks. She understands there are times when her needs need to be acknowledged.

But doesn't every parent want their daughter to be kind and respectful? I think it's important for everyone to be nice, but you can't be so nice that you don't know how to defend yourself or advocate for your most important feelings and needs.

What's the struggle parents have with ensuring their girls are well-rounded in that external r?sum? sense but are still authentic and courageous? Are parents not helping girls strike that balance? It's complicated. Parents who give their daughters every opportunity to succeed by exposing them to activities and programs that enhance how they look on paper [are] wonderful, that's great. [But] sometimes being an overscheduled, overbooked, overachieving girl is as much for a girl about pleasing her parents and doing what she thinks they think is right than about what she authentically feels passionate about. It's important to check in with your daughter and make sure from what you observe as a parent and through your own conversations with her that she feels truly interested in all these different activities that are making her college application so terrific.

How do parents ensure their daughter is being truthful if she's lived up to this good-girl ideal for so long? How do they shift their own expectations? Parents need to be open to the fact that a girl may suddenly be saying it right in front of you. And if it's not easy to see, it's your responsibility as a parent when you have a girl who is so efficient, who is so machine-like, to stop her and say, ?Are you okay? Is this the life you want? Because it looks like you don't have a lot of time for rest.' You don't want your daughter having a meltdown at 25 or 35 because she's realized she actually doesn't know how she got here.

You say that a lot of good girls can't express their emotions, which leads them to assume things, which can lead to conflict or an explosion of anger or frustration. One of the biggest myths about girls is because they have lots of feelings, they know how to manage them ? that couldn't be further from the truth. If we gave them permission to be themselves, we would allow them to develop those psychological muscles.

That lack of permission to be themselves can lead them to lie, you write. That doesn't sound very good girl. It's about integrity. If your primary objective is to be liked by other people and to be nice all the time, when you have a feeling or a situation that comes into conflict with that, you may end up having to not be truthful. I do not think this is because there is something wrong with girls, I think it's because there's something wrong with the culture that forces girls to split themselves and to project this good girl to the world and hold their real feelings inside.

Are girls modelling their behaviour on celebrities acting out the good-girl ideal? It's pretty common. So you have Miley Cyrus and Demi Lovato and it's like ?gone are the days of Paris and Lindsay and Britney and Nicole.' Now it's about these young starlets who volunteer, who are advocates for causes, who are wearing promise rings but seem to really mean it, and of course that sets up a lot of pressure. And as soon as they make one wrong move ? Miley Cyrus is photographed, or her pole dance ? the whole world comes down on them. These young celebrities are living this all-or-nothing pressure that so many girls are faced with.
 
this article really struck a chord with me.

being "good" does indeed lead you to deny your real feelings, or to hide them away from the world because you want to please and be accepted. it does lead to not knowing who you are, and it is destructive to the self in the long run.

being real is what is healthy, not being complacent and doing what you think the world wants you to do.
 

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Growing up I was always the "good kid" and my brother was the one that people expected problems from or with. It was alot of pressure for me to always maintain the image that people had of me. Today, I'm insecure, not confident, don't really know who I am or what I'm doing in life, and yes, have been on the brink of a major breakdown several times.

I think there's alot of truth in this article, at least for me.
 
I think this discussion may apply to a large percentage of us, no matter what gender. I love the quote by Uta Hagen. The "need to please" and do what is expected to be accepted really inhibits experiencing genuinely deep, loving relationships.
I was recently reading Power of the Myth by Joseph Campbell (interviewed by Bill Moyers). He discusses "original experience" in contrast to pre-conceived and/or pre-interpreted experience. This seems to re-iterate or work with what is being discussed in this article and really resonates with the quote this week, August 22-26,2011. Thank you for both.
 
Yup, I really like this article. Thanks Dr. Baxter...

I tried to be the "good girl." It did suck. I am sure I came across as sunshiny-happy all the time and probably pretty fake, but I didn't know how to be anything else. I'm getting a lot more real now, though! lol
 
Ughh ... my daughter (16) called me today and was hysterical. She fits this description exactly. She makes A's, cheerleader, advanced classes, beautiful, tall, thin ... and tries to be perfect. She was hysterical because she says nobody likes her and a friend called her a "fake" because she consoled a girl who was upset but is not part of the "in crowd." Now she is worried about her weight.

I made the Class A mistake of trying to advise her instead of listening to her. But she was so hysterical that I could hardly understand what she was saying.

Her mother and I are divorced so I know she has scars from that. (She's also the youngest) But I can tell from listening to her that she is trying to "control" everything (got that from me) instead of just learning to be confident in herself. She wants to be accepted and liked so badly (what 16 year old doesn't) but she seems to be trying too hard. My wish is that she would learn to lighten up a little and not worry so much what other people think.
 

MHealthJo

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I am glad you were there for her Darkside and that she felt comfortable talking to you.

I don't know about other places, but something I'm grateful for where I live is there still seems to be more value, in a lot of schools, on being a 'top bloke', instead of appearing just right, etc.

(A 'top bloke' meaning a nice, genuine person who cares for others or does something good, EVEN if that person isn't 'cool' - gasp.)

I just do not know what to do once appearances, 'peer rules', mob mentalities, etc, begin to overtake that. Argh, it's like in some high school cultures, basic things that normally apply in life just don't apply.... like 'what goes around comes around', or the fact that a person is usually more likeable if they are genuine, etc.

It's like an artificial culture based on fear, rather than on the natural inclination of reasonably healthy human feelings.

And I just would not know how to advise a person on coping with that.....
 
The high school she attends is in a very affluent area and all the kids have their own cars, expensive clothes, nice vacations, big homes, etc. I'd say the "fakery," if it's there, is more likely with the other girls because my daughter doesn't have all those things. Must be a very confusing time for her.
 

MHealthJo

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For sure. Hmm it does make me think. I did grow up in a pretty, um, 'down to earth' socioeconomic area. Most people in the same boat materially, and also school uniforms or plain coloured T-shirt rules are the norm over here even in public schools; and school age kids can't drive.

Now that I think of it, it was also the 'grunge' era - materialism kind of wasn't really very 'in'.

I wonder how much all these things affect school environments... less opportunity to display these things.

Sorry your daughter is having a difficult time. Assure her of your love and respect for caring for an 'uncool' person and for displaying her OWN identity. And the way the other stuff does not give a person value or significance... and that the 'shallow' types of groups and relationships at school can be very transient...Being accepted and liked for 'fitting in' offers you very little, while being liked and accepted for the relaxed and genuine you, by just a few genuine people, is an amazing and wonderful thing.

Its very difficult to get these things through at that age though.
 
That's about all I know to do. Growing up is the process of sorting all of this out for herself and deciding if she wants to popular or dig around in her heart and find out who she really is.

I love this quote by Anne Lamott (author of Bird By Bird and others)

“Your problem is how you are going to spend this one and precious life you have been issued. Whether you're going to spend it trying to look good and creating the illusion that you have power over circumstances, or whether you are going to taste it, enjoy it and find out the truth about who you are.”
 
She and her older brother really got into it last Saturday. She became hysterical and then angry with me because I didn't intervene on her behalf. I generally let them sort out their own arguments but she wanted me to "make him stop."

They were talking about immigration and my son was making the point (legitimate I thought) that freedom means nothing if it doesn't apply to everyone. She was making the argument that people who immigrate here (illegally) from other countries don't have the same rights and should be returned (deported) to wherever they come from. (also a legitimate argument)

I tried to calm them by saying that both arguments had good points. They then began talking over each other, telling the other one to "be quiet" and escalating the argument. My son said my daughter was "prejudiced" and my daughter said my son was "stupid."

She is furious at me for not taking her side and now she will hardly speak to me.

My gut tells me she feels like her life is "out of control" and trying to control an argument, (as in, prove she is right) or get me to take her side rather than accept a differing viewpoint is her attempt to try and be "in control."

They are 18 (son) and 16 (daughter).
 

MHealthJo

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That may have been hard for her to take of course.... but you demonstrated to her that what's healthy is to recognise different views and not squash or get personal about ones we don't share.

Do you think (after she calms down towards you a bit) that if you recommended a resource, book, etc that could be helpful to her, sincerely and with love, that she might be open to it?
 
That may have been hard for her to take of course.... but you demonstrated to her that what's healthy is to recognise different views and not squash or get personal about ones we don't share.

Do you think (after she calms down towards you a bit) that if you recommended a resource, book, etc that could be helpful to her, sincerely and with love, that she might be open to it?

She might. What book did you have in mind?
 

MHealthJo

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Hmm, it's always hard to decide on a resource to recommend unless I know quite a bit about a person or have spoken to them personally...

I am a huge David Burns fan though, and with this thread in mind, his Feeling Good has fantastic sections on perfectionism, approval-seeking, and also anger. Great general book too for self-image, self-esteem, the concept of 'worth', etc. Could be a possibility?

I am not sure if he has done any work aimed more at teens, but an intelligent young woman shouldnt have any problem I wouldn't think; the writing is pretty accessible. Just not sure though if with a young person its better to point out a particularly good chapter first or photocopy it or something; or to just hope they will not get bored or reject the idea if they start slogging through earlier parts of the book which may not resonate instantly?... not sure.
 
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