Between opposing wills

[amastie]

Hi,
I've been diagnosed as having Dissociation (just short of losing periods of time - though my doctor doubts that I lose no time at all). Certainly I experience disorientation in time but mainly it is the experience of other "people" inside me and determining what I think and feel at certain times - especially when I am stressed or triggered by painful events. They "erupt" at those times and I have great trouble containing them.

They present a variety of challenges. One of two that has got me down at present is that I've been making inquiries about having bariatric surgery. I'm certainly qualified by size, I"m somewhere between morbidly and super morbidly obese. I don't see any other option working for me to lose weight except bariatric surgery and, if I cover myself for private health cover for months, I could probably have it but in discussing it with my sister, she reminded me what my psychiatrist has also said - and what I know fundamentally to be true - that the "personalities" inside me, who work so hard to sabotage me, will sabotage any such effort to lose weight and I might find myself more badly off.

Bit it's terribly difficult to sit by and just hope that the psychiatrist and counsellor (I'm going to see a new one) between them will one day enable me to overcome the need to binge when that hasn't happened to this time.

I'm scared not to have the operation and I'm scared to have it. My psychiatrist says the same.

I've spoken to the psychiatrist who is attached to the weight loss surgeon and he would like to see me in order to assess me. So far, with having a number of co-morbidities, he says that in general that would tip the edge over having the surgery as against not having it. He know my diagnosis. He just doesn't know yet what ferocity that the personalities ("alters") inside me bring to want to undermine my weight loss.

I feel imprisoned by my own fear of losing weight.

The good news is that I don't purge or self-injure etc as so many others do. I'm strictly dissociative and a binge eater (and, it has been said, inclined to have cyclothymic personality). The cyclothymia was dismissed by psychiatrist as minimal compared to the dissociation. After weeks of feeling very down, I'm ready to have that reviewed with her again and maybe take meds for it.

I really don't expect that others have answers for me. I just felt the need to express my sadness at being locked between two opposing wills - that which would sabotage all effort to lose weight (among other things) and that which would like to wear clothes that don't have to be made, that which would like not to be seen rushing out the door before the shops close to buy the food to meet my need to binge. It's very much a comfort thing but also something which I lose contact with. The one thing that works is meditation and the "alters" successfully manage to prevent that as well.

Sorry, I'm using this space to scream aloud! When does the world stop turning in time for me to get off. I'm sure I've accidentally hopped onto the wrong one <lol>

 

[ladylore]

I have had some experience with Dissociation and DID. I don't have DID myself, but have worked with women who do.

Saying that, what type of techniques do you use to get along with the other 'personalities'?

I am wondering if devising a plan with your psychiatrist to gain everyone's cooperation regarding the surgery. You more then likely already know this, but the other people are aspects of you. When they were created and separated from the main personality they had a true role to play. They truly protected you - and thank goodness for that.

Sometimes contracts work with the others. Sometimes compassion works too. Letting them know in writing (and through an ongoing dialogue) that this is the best for everyone involved. They got you through till adulthood and now this is the decision you need to make on behalf of everyone so everyone can have a better life.

Just a few ideas. Hope some of this helps.

 

[white page]

Hi Amastie ,:heart:
I have read your post carefully several times and would like to respond to you , however I may be right off mark so do forgive me for not understanding
the constant ambivelence you live with .

Bit it's terribly difficult to sit by and just hope that the psychiatrist and counsllor (I'm going to see a new oine) between them will one day enable me to overcome the need to binge when that hasn't happened to this time.

several issues in there , it is not the councellor or psychiatrist who will enable you to stop binge eating , it is you , the multiple facets of you who will do this with the help of the proffessionals , also as with any excessive addictive habit , it is rare that there is a miraculous 100% sudden 'cure' , the
cure happens over a long period of time , with at times backslipping .

there is the part of you who knows clearly and rationally, that you have no choice as far as your health is concerned , is it not possible to send the same message to the part of you which sabotages you . As you go to sleep , maybe talk gently to the sabotaging self , saying that you are her friend and wouldn't it be better to go forward arm in arm , each one respecting the existence of the other , yet both working towards one goal , your own one good in the long term .

I feel imprisoned by my own fear of losing weight.

fear of another way of being , of the unfamiliar ?

The good news is that I don't purge or self-injure etc as so many others do. I'm strictly dissociative and a binge eater

this is very, very brutal what I am going to say so forgive me , you do self injure with binge eating . It has led to the distress physical and emotional you are now feeling .
Your intelligence and finesse of spirit and mind grace this forum and I really care about you amastie , I am so very much hoping that you do not sit by and wait , but become a dynamic and vital actor in your road towards serenity and a completeness and coherance within yourself .

my very best wishes wp :heart:

 

[forgetmenot]

what a struggle for you amastie i wish you all the best whatever you decide i know the surgery is difficult in itself so if you were to do it you would need tremendous help afterwards alot of support from family and your physician take care mary

 

[Jazzey]

Sorry, I'm using this space to scream aloud! When does the world stop turning in time for me to get off. I'm sure I've accidentally hopped onto the wrong one <lol>

Vent away Amastie. Sometimes, just the venting provides an immense release for the frustration.

I guess one of my first questions when I read your post was - is this surgery necessary? Is this surgery something that your doctor is recommending due to other ailments associated with your weight issues?

I'm not trying to dissuade you from the procedure. I'm just wondering if it's an urgent situation. And of course, as we've said here so often, your doctor should be your primary line of guidance on such a serious decision.

Also, I wouldn't want you to be defeatist just yet . Why don't you wait and an see what the assessment with the counsellor (the one associated with the surgeon) brings about.

I do hope that you'll keep positive in this journey Amastie. That you'll keep believing that you will succeed in having the personalities live harmoniously without sabotaging your efforts to be healthier. That wish is for you irrespective of this surgery...

Sending you nothing but positive vibes of support Amastie. :hug: :hug: :airkiss:

 

[amastie]

:heart: :hug: :hug:
This is to thank you all right now - Robyn, wp, May, Jazzey - I want to think more about your answers but can't write much at present. Am about to get ready to go to voluntary work so can't linger right now.
Thank you very much for your caring and support.
I'll reply later in greater length
Take good care :airkiss:

 

[amastie]

..what type of techniques do you use to get along with the other 'personalities'?...

Thank you for your ideas Robyn :hug:
I use a variety of ways to try to dialogue with the "alters". They are so angry that it is very hard to do that. More often, compassioin helps me more to reach them. As far as negotiating with them to stop me from bingeing, that doesn't yet look within reach. But I'm still working with my psychiatrist to be where I need to be. I also found the counsellor very helpful till a few weeks ago. I've made arrangements to see a differenent counsellor in about a week so that might be interesting as well. Meanwhile, my 4-weekly visits to my psychiatrist have been curtailed by her having not been able to attend the last two visits and she is too busy to return my calls. This is *most* unusual for her. Her receptionist tells me that she is more than ususally busy.

 

[amastie]

....I may be right off mark so do forgive me for not understanding the constant ambivelence you live with ....

We all have our own, equally valid and important experience

..it is not the councellor or psychiatrist who will enable you to stop binge eating , it is you , the multiple facets of you who will do this with the help of the proffessionals , also as with any excessive addictive habit , it is rare that there is a miraculous 100% sudden 'cure' , the
cure happens over a long period of time , with at times backslipping ....

Yes, of course, you're right. It's just been very many years that I've experienced this and the future is a lot shorter than the past. It's easy at times to lose hope, and also to blame myself for not having moved further ahead with resolving this issue since I've been working on it for so long.

...there is the part of you who knows clearly and rationally, that you have no choice as far as your health is concerned , is it not possible to send the same message to the part of you which sabotages you...

The sticking point is that that part of myself wants me to be hurt and doesn't recognize that if I'm hurt so will he/she be, or doesn't care. I don't know which. Maybe depression factors into the equation as well, making the choice to feel self-worth (and to lose weight) a harder one. That's something I must talk over with m psychiatrist when I see her next.

...As you go to sleep , maybe talk gently to the sabotaging self , saying that you are her friend and wouldn't it be better to go forward arm in arm , each one respecting the existence of the other , yet both working towards one goal , your own one good in the long term ....

I've done such work many times WP, sometimes with success but never long-term success. I am well aware that the recommended therapy for people who dissociate is, at some stage, to enter into a dialogue with the "alters" to move toward an integration (or at least a reconciliation of some sort).. I don't know if it my resistance or theirs that makes that more difficult. On the other hand, they *are* me <lol> - just dissociated aspects of me.

...this is very, very brutal what I am going to say so forgive me , you do self injure with binge eating . It has led to the distress physical and emotional you are now feeling ...

If it appears otherwise, I really do know that and you are *certainly* not brutal in suggesting it :hug: The personalities (as I call them) often bring to me the demand to eat (and other self-punishing thoughts) in a violent way. Someone said to me not long ago that it was my complex experience that helps me to empathize with others. I hope that it does. I just feel sorry that, at times like the last few weeks, I get down and am hopeless to help anyone except to let others know that my thoughts and my concern remains true.

.....I really care about you amastie...

As I do you :hug: :flowers:

...I am so very much hoping that you do not sit by and wait , but become a dynamic and vital actor in your road towards serenity and a completeness and coherance within yourself .

my very best wishes wp

Thank you my friend :hug:
I'd say that until recently, I have proceeded in a dynamic way with my healing. It has been more since I've not been able to have contact with my psychiatrist, stopped seeing my counsellor (which was my choice, but coincided with the other) and also, diet-related ill-health which affected my mood very much - all coming together, which has left me more despondent at present. But don't be too alarmed, because I've always been in the habit of bouncing back I've never been a person who stays down, though these past few weeks have been longer than usual. It is why I'm interested in talking to my psychiatrist about another type of antidepressant (Jazzey has recommended one that works for her). I've also been reading about Cyclothymic Personality Disorder - which my psychiatrist has said long ago that I probably do fit but she dismissed it at the time as being much less of a problem than my dissociation. Maybe it's worth looking at again. I can only work on the issues, including the overeating, one step at a time. Mostly, I want to work in a way that, as much as possible, is kind to myself. Given my propensity to having cruel thoughts toward myself, that becomes all the more important.

 

[NicNak]

Hi Amastie :hug: I just wanted to send you my support.

I am sure between your doctors and your entire beautiful self, it can deturmined what is best for all of your beautiful self.

You have such a wonderful spirit and strenght. I truly find you inspirational, as I am sure others do.

I have heard others have had success with the surgeries, so if it is deemed to be a safe venture for you and it is something you truly want. I am supportive of you and will be cheering you on.

All the best Amastie :hug: :friends:

Let us know how things go.

 

[amastie]

..i wish you all the best whatever you decide i know the surgery is difficult in itself so if you were to do it you would need tremendous help afterwards alot of support from family and your physician take care mary

Thank you Mary :heart:
Yes, I know that, in every case, anyone having weight-loss surgery needs follow-up support and especially so if there are severe psychiatric concerns surrounding it. If I had the operation, I would have the ongoing support of my pschiatrist and, hopefully, my new counsellor. I've found my counsellors very good on the whole so I expect to continue to see them, I'll see a new one in another week or so. If that doesn't work out I'll review that at the time, but I have got a lot from then in the past. (I would also have here to come to
Thank you :hug: :flowers:

 

[amastie]

Vent away Amastiey. Sometimes, just the venting provides an immense release for the frustration...

Thank you my friend :rant:

..is this surgery necessary? Is this surgery something that your doctor is recommending due to other ailments associated with your weight issues?...

My GP, yes. I have a number of problems all related to my overweight and my GP can?t wait for me to have the operation. My psychiatrist, no, because she knows me much more intimately, knows that the same ?alters? (I call them the ?personalities?) will find another way to hurt me since that is their aim. Bingeing isn?t the only way they hurt me.
My general practitioner isn?t at all familiar with dissociation, and is inclined to think that I only have a ?mood disorder?. Dissociative disorders may have found their way to the DSM, but not all psychiatrists, much less GPs, believe in it.
Having spoken to the psychiatrist attached to the weight-loss surgeon only once, over the phone, he has said that I would need to see him twice for a full assessment before he could decide if I was a suitable candidate. So far, on the basis of knowing that I have co-existing ?co-morbidities?, he said that he would ordinarily recommend the operation - but he doesn?t know yet about the extent to which the ?personalities? want to hurt me (and it is having that knowledge that my own psychiatrist has the advantage.)
Physically, I manage with help. I use a walker to help me get about on account of my arthritis. My varicose veins can?t be operated on because I?m too big. I take meds for high blood pressure and use a sleep apnoea machine. As well, I?m ?pre-diabetic? - so yes, I have enough ?co-morbidities? to qualify me for the operation - most of all, my size. The decision to have the operation or not is not an easy one. Because of the ?personalities?, it?s a much more contentious one. In truth, my psychiatrist is right. The personalities *do* want to hurt me, but will having the operation at least make it harder for them to hurt me from overeating?
I titled this thread ?Between opposing wills?. I could have just as easily have titled it ?between a rock and a hard place? <lol>
But it?s my rock, and it?s my hard place.
I?ve talked at length - as I always do - but not because I hold others responsible for the answer. As I say, I really felt like ranting. It has often happened to me in the past that those situations that most confront me find their own level and I trust that this too will do that.

..Why don't you wait and an see what the assessment with the counsellor (the one associated with the surgeon) brings about....

I?m having second thoughts about seeing him because I can?t imagine him giving me the go-ahead when he knows how strongly the ?alters? want to hurt me, but he did say that he has recommended one other person with DID for the operation and that has turned ok. That gives me some hope. What I?d rather do is to speak first to my own psychiatrist when she returns at the end of month, *then* see that second psychiatrist because I want mine to be completely up-to-date with what has been happening. The second psychiatrist would be seeking a report from her anyway. (For my purpose, the second psychiatrist, works only with the weight-loss surgeon and is only seen once or twice to confirm whether a person is eligible to have the surgery - so he is going to have to refer to my psychiatrist for background.)

..
I do hope that you'll keep positive in this journey Amastie. That you'll keep believing that you will succeed in having the personalities live harmoniously without sabotaging your efforts to be healthier. That wish is for you irrespective of this surgery...
Sending you nothing but positive vibes of support Amastie.

Yes, thank you :hug: :airkiss: :flowers:

 

[amastie]

...I just wanted to send you my support. ..

I am sure between your doctors and your entire beautiful self, it can deturmined what is best for all of your beautiful self...

Yes, we will work it out.

It surprises me that you see good in me at this time especially since I have withdrawn so much lately, but please be assured that I embrace all my friends here. I might not be as present as I would like, but in my heart I hold everyone in beautiful light, wishing only lovely things for us all

...I have heard others have had success with the surgeries, so if it is deemed to be a safe venture for you and it is something you truly want. I am supportive of you and will be cheering you on.

All the best Amastie

Let us know how things go.

Thank you my friend. I will
:hug: :flowers:

 

[NicNak]

It surprises me that you see good in me at this time especially since I have withdrawn so much lately, but please be assured that I embrace all my friends here. I might not be as present as I would like, but in my heart I hold everyone in beautiful light, wishing only lovely things for us all

I get withdrawn too Amasite, so I understand. Even thought that happens, that you become withdrawn, when you are here you give so much of yourself.

I really feel that you are a genuine, kind person :hug: That has never changed in my mind. :hug:

 

[amastie]

NN, you cause me tears..
I'm so ready to believe that (don't want to say).. :heart:

 

[Ronbell]

Hi,

Although I'm just a kid with very little experience with what you're going through in terms of your "Dissociation disorder", I do know what it's like to struggle with weight loss.

Let me start off by saying: I think if you're assessed to be eligible for it, that you go through with it.

Weight loss for me has always been difficult because I was unwilling to accept that weight loss required a lifestyle change in order for it to be successful. Not just getting exercise occasionally, and ordering diet pop instead of the regular stuff.

Typically, the only times I had been successful at weight loss, was when I wasn't preoccupied with my other problems. However, your problems may seem to overlay with your weight loss issue, and this surgery will give your mind no choice on the matter.

You will lose weight. You will also be forced to deal with this, as well as the new confidence a slimmer you will bring. It's not your diet or a choice to exercise that will cause you to lose weight; you take that part out of the equation, and once you've started losing weight, maybe you'll feel the need change that area of your lifestyle as well.

Best of luck!

-Ron

 

[amastie]

Hi, Ron,
and welcome to PsychLinks

Let me start off by saying: I think if you're assessed to be eligible for it, that you go through with it.

Yesterday, I received results of test that show that I am very close to being diabetic which makes my having the operation more likely but I want to speak to my psychiatrist first

However, your problems may seem to overlay with your weight loss issue, ...

That's true but surgery is still an options. It's really a toss-up which way to go. It good well or not. No-one can tell ahead of time.

You will lose weight. You will also be forced to deal with this ......and once you've started losing weight, maybe you'll feel the need change that area of your lifestyle as well.

Yes, thank you Ron for you well-considered advice