This issue that I am going to talk about has bothered me since last July. Having had a problem with the one person I mentioned about here under excess guilt, I feel like bringing up another issue means that I have problems with people, but in fact I have many friends in my life, only I have moved and have been trying to make new friends.
I have two friends in this small town, and I think highly of them, but I tend to like women friends who are buddies. I have no buddies, no one who wants to go to antique stores, check out new towns, shop, etc.
Two and a half years ago I met a woman that was like a buddy to me. But I must say when we first met she said that she never had a close friend, that whenever she tried to be friends with a woman they would be indirect with her in regards to communication and so she would drop them. I don?t think I understood what she meant by that, and looking back, I realize that I should have realized that anyone who has only had acquaintances in their lives has problems. But we had a lot in common politically and religiously and there were other things that I liked about her. We became buddies. Then 1 ? years later her husband got into S&M online and began meeting women, and they broke up. She became depressed, which is natural. Then this last summer, about 6 months or more after their divorce, I noticed that she was relating differently with me.
I remember talking to my husband after talking to her, and I would tell him that what she had said just upset me, and he would say to take care of it or we would not be friends pretty soon. I thought I could dismiss it and seemed to be doing fine. But things kept coming up like these things, and they don?t seem so important in some ways, but they bothered me:
1. My dog hit me in the eye with her nose when I was going to towel dry her. She has fear aggression. I went online to talk with those who train dogs, and they told me how to handle her. They also said that when she pumps people in the face when they lean over to pet her, she is being aggressive. I tell this to my friend, and she says that my dog is only being friendly, and that those people don?t know what they are talking about. I told her that I have talked with Border Collie Rescue vet who says that my dog is fear aggression. She still insists that you can?t listen to them.
2. Next I am pulling out winter creeper, a vine that kills trees. When she calls me to see what I am doing, I tell her, and she starts in telling me that winter creeper doesn?t kill trees, and doesn?t understand why I want it out. I show her an article from the forestry department that says otherwise. She remains adamant that they are wrong, and she is right.
3. I tell her that I am pulling out primrose because it is spreading and will kill my plants as I have read. This conversation as in all others goes on for about 3 days, and I am spending my time defending myself. I show her articles from online. She says they are wrong and says her primrose doesn?t spread. I say I agree and hers is a different variety.
4. I tell her that I am cutting down some trees in the back because they are two close to the other trees and that the ag man here said that trees should be 30 feet apart, but I am going for 5 feet. She says that he is wrong, that if a tree can?t get enough light they will die. I said, ?These trees are bending in order to find light,? and on and on.
Then that summer when all of this is happening she tells me that when she gets her new house she won?t be able to see her friends for a year because she will be busy working on the house. I heard this twice, and being that I am her only friend, I am wondering if she wants me out of her life.
Next, she puts down everyone I like, even my other friend here, saying that she is superficial and rude. Superficial because she doesn?t like to read books that are depressing, and I said that I didn?t either. And I disagree with her that she is rude.
Also I have fatigue due to low thyroid, and so I yawn a lot. The first time she brought it up she asked if I were bored with her, and I said no. Then she wanted me to go to a doctor. I said, I have been to a doctor.
Next we began going to tea with another woman in town, a woman that I really liked being around because she was upbeat. The third time we met for tea, my friend and I showed up first. I told her that I really liked this other woman because she has a lot of energy, and I knew when I was saying this that I might get a negative response. So my friend says in a cold tone: ?That is because she has ADHD. She told us that the last time we met. Or weren?t you listening?? (I admit I have a hard time listening, and at my age I ask the same question over again. She is upset because during the course of one conversation I asked her what she was doing that day, and then later on in the long conversation I asked again. I worry about senility or Alzheimer?s because of this. But then I have always had this problem of not listening. I was yelled at in grammar school by a teacher who said I never listened.) So next I yawn, and she says in a cold tone: ?Your yawning is just a habit.? I say nothing. And then when this woman showed up she told her that she didn?t like my friends. I was shocked.
So she comes to visit a few days later and asks me if we are still friends, and I am puzzled and say yes because I feel we are. I had already chalked up our visit at tea with her being in a bad mood, and I had been doing my best to let go of the other things.
But then I think over what she said, and so I email her and say: Does my yawning really bother you because you have brought it up several times, and I don?t know what to do about it. All I can do is cover my mouth.
She calls back and says, ?I knew there was something wrong, but you denied it. I told you that I never kept women friends because they are non direct in their communication. What else is wrong? I mentioned what happened over tea. She said, ?You are just too sensitive.? And then she said that I believed everything I read on the internet in regards to my dog and plants. She even had an issue with my using grass clippings for mulch.
So now I am angry, and since she wants to know what is wrong, I email her the rest, such as what I just wrote here, and she writes back and said that my letter made her vomit. And then she denied saying any of those things; I mean denied everything, but then she was able to write about it in her denial, but accused me of twisting everything she said. To make this shorter I left out all of her denials and am just posting her complaints of me:
What I did NOT enjoy was:
You asked me about something, anything, say feathers, then when I would answer, you said, "oh, I would never spray my feather with an insecticide" You went many places asking and then came back to the idea of insecticide??
Remember the harvest fruit catcher? I told you what kind I had and you told me, "no, they said on line this one was the best. They all reviewed this one as best." You ordered it. It wasn't. Then you ordered one like mine.
I felt no matter what I said, you would contradict it. Contrary to me. Constantly.
then you go on line to many sites, what do I think about this or that, I tell you,
then you say, oh, NO, these people say this or that. (implying I am either stupid or at least do not know what I am talking about).
You do this over and over and over.
You say, "what do you think?" then you go on line, they tell you something else and you come back and the way you present it is "you don't know what you were talking about, the forum, etc. said this and that and see, this thing I forwarded proves you are wrong"
Then many times you come right back to what I initially said, but you never said, "you were right, you knew what you were talking about"
What I said was I think you rely too much on internet information from lots of people who don't know so much but want to vegitate at the computer and spew ego stuff...make themselves look better, smarter, etc. SOME people do know what they are talking about on the net, but many many more, do NOT.
About gardening, I kept saying more or less, if you won't believe me since I have gardened in this area 28 years and it looks like my gardening is working, then asked The man at the Ag Dept rather than asking people on line). Then take whatever you want from what he says and throw away the other. At least your information would be for our local area. Even the local community gardening people do a lot of things either the hard way or wrong but time is a teacher, usually.
You see, you would ask me about something, then go on line, then send me the information you got on line which said NO, you are wrong. You did this over and over. I thought I was very patient about it.
If I can't have my opinions about things without feeling I have to be so careful about them as you will take it the wrong way, or I should say, in a way I did not intend, then that is not a friendship to me.
I shouldn't even go into these things because I don't think you see at all who I am or where I am coming from. I am very tired of you telling me what I thought or how I looked at someone which just shows you do not see my heart.
If I had known I could not even comment about your yawning, I would not have. See, I can't have a close friendship with anyone when I can't make comments BUT had you told me never to ever talk about your yawning, I would have honored that. I would have apologized had I thought I had hurt you about it. Whatever I said, and I don't remember what it was, I can be sure it was not said in a hurtful way, only with concern.
I hated to write all this out, but since your letters kept interpreting things totally opposite to the way my spirit sent them out, or how I meant them, I felt I finally had to take up for my self. I realize it won't do any good because you do not see where I am coming from, who I am, how my heart is.
I have considered you like a sister and I will always only speak highly of you and be glad to see you when I do, but I can not try to have a close relationship with you. I am very sorry. I am also very sorry for any hurt I have given you. From my heart, I apologize.
And so all her denials that I didn't list left me feeling rather crazy. But then I think that she just wanted me to listen to her and no one else since she even argued with me over what the ag man here said. I wanted to give both sides here. Basically though, I feel a loss of a good friend that seems to have changed after her divorce. And when I read this from her I realized that she was not being direct with me either, and I told her so, and I apologized for sending her information off the internet that proved her wrong and told her I would not have continued had she brought it up. She didn?t respond to either. Her last response was this:
I was so stunned, when I realized you thought I was so mean spirited that I, as one of your best friends, could and would be so devious and mean to you. I never would. I can not defend myself because it seemed the things you covered were about our whole friendship time (two years?).
I truly feel anything I say will be turned around on me. It is not something I can fight. I do not intend hurt towards you in any way.
I can say I am very sorry I have ever hurt you in any way. You are one of the nicest, most caring, generous, intelligent people I have ever known, kind hearted, fun. I miss you and treasure the times we had together. Hope everything is working well in your life, you deserve it.
And I told her it had only been those two months, and that I never considered her mean spirited or devious.
Sorry this has been long. I am just trying to sort though it all to understand what went wrong and since your last post to me really helped me with the other woman that is pushy, and how I know I can now be nice to her but continue to say No?always, I wanted your opinion again.
It hasn't been easy since we have also been in the same reading group in town, and I keep thinking of quitting because of that and because I never like the books we are given to read. And it is weird after all of this that when I show up she may have a book to give to me to keep and then I bring her something. But I tried emailing her again, and it was going fine until she brought up again how I think she is mean spirited, etc.
I have two friends in this small town, and I think highly of them, but I tend to like women friends who are buddies. I have no buddies, no one who wants to go to antique stores, check out new towns, shop, etc.
Two and a half years ago I met a woman that was like a buddy to me. But I must say when we first met she said that she never had a close friend, that whenever she tried to be friends with a woman they would be indirect with her in regards to communication and so she would drop them. I don?t think I understood what she meant by that, and looking back, I realize that I should have realized that anyone who has only had acquaintances in their lives has problems. But we had a lot in common politically and religiously and there were other things that I liked about her. We became buddies. Then 1 ? years later her husband got into S&M online and began meeting women, and they broke up. She became depressed, which is natural. Then this last summer, about 6 months or more after their divorce, I noticed that she was relating differently with me.
I remember talking to my husband after talking to her, and I would tell him that what she had said just upset me, and he would say to take care of it or we would not be friends pretty soon. I thought I could dismiss it and seemed to be doing fine. But things kept coming up like these things, and they don?t seem so important in some ways, but they bothered me:
1. My dog hit me in the eye with her nose when I was going to towel dry her. She has fear aggression. I went online to talk with those who train dogs, and they told me how to handle her. They also said that when she pumps people in the face when they lean over to pet her, she is being aggressive. I tell this to my friend, and she says that my dog is only being friendly, and that those people don?t know what they are talking about. I told her that I have talked with Border Collie Rescue vet who says that my dog is fear aggression. She still insists that you can?t listen to them.
2. Next I am pulling out winter creeper, a vine that kills trees. When she calls me to see what I am doing, I tell her, and she starts in telling me that winter creeper doesn?t kill trees, and doesn?t understand why I want it out. I show her an article from the forestry department that says otherwise. She remains adamant that they are wrong, and she is right.
3. I tell her that I am pulling out primrose because it is spreading and will kill my plants as I have read. This conversation as in all others goes on for about 3 days, and I am spending my time defending myself. I show her articles from online. She says they are wrong and says her primrose doesn?t spread. I say I agree and hers is a different variety.
4. I tell her that I am cutting down some trees in the back because they are two close to the other trees and that the ag man here said that trees should be 30 feet apart, but I am going for 5 feet. She says that he is wrong, that if a tree can?t get enough light they will die. I said, ?These trees are bending in order to find light,? and on and on.
Then that summer when all of this is happening she tells me that when she gets her new house she won?t be able to see her friends for a year because she will be busy working on the house. I heard this twice, and being that I am her only friend, I am wondering if she wants me out of her life.
Next, she puts down everyone I like, even my other friend here, saying that she is superficial and rude. Superficial because she doesn?t like to read books that are depressing, and I said that I didn?t either. And I disagree with her that she is rude.
Also I have fatigue due to low thyroid, and so I yawn a lot. The first time she brought it up she asked if I were bored with her, and I said no. Then she wanted me to go to a doctor. I said, I have been to a doctor.
Next we began going to tea with another woman in town, a woman that I really liked being around because she was upbeat. The third time we met for tea, my friend and I showed up first. I told her that I really liked this other woman because she has a lot of energy, and I knew when I was saying this that I might get a negative response. So my friend says in a cold tone: ?That is because she has ADHD. She told us that the last time we met. Or weren?t you listening?? (I admit I have a hard time listening, and at my age I ask the same question over again. She is upset because during the course of one conversation I asked her what she was doing that day, and then later on in the long conversation I asked again. I worry about senility or Alzheimer?s because of this. But then I have always had this problem of not listening. I was yelled at in grammar school by a teacher who said I never listened.) So next I yawn, and she says in a cold tone: ?Your yawning is just a habit.? I say nothing. And then when this woman showed up she told her that she didn?t like my friends. I was shocked.
So she comes to visit a few days later and asks me if we are still friends, and I am puzzled and say yes because I feel we are. I had already chalked up our visit at tea with her being in a bad mood, and I had been doing my best to let go of the other things.
But then I think over what she said, and so I email her and say: Does my yawning really bother you because you have brought it up several times, and I don?t know what to do about it. All I can do is cover my mouth.
She calls back and says, ?I knew there was something wrong, but you denied it. I told you that I never kept women friends because they are non direct in their communication. What else is wrong? I mentioned what happened over tea. She said, ?You are just too sensitive.? And then she said that I believed everything I read on the internet in regards to my dog and plants. She even had an issue with my using grass clippings for mulch.
So now I am angry, and since she wants to know what is wrong, I email her the rest, such as what I just wrote here, and she writes back and said that my letter made her vomit. And then she denied saying any of those things; I mean denied everything, but then she was able to write about it in her denial, but accused me of twisting everything she said. To make this shorter I left out all of her denials and am just posting her complaints of me:
What I did NOT enjoy was:
You asked me about something, anything, say feathers, then when I would answer, you said, "oh, I would never spray my feather with an insecticide" You went many places asking and then came back to the idea of insecticide??
Remember the harvest fruit catcher? I told you what kind I had and you told me, "no, they said on line this one was the best. They all reviewed this one as best." You ordered it. It wasn't. Then you ordered one like mine.
I felt no matter what I said, you would contradict it. Contrary to me. Constantly.
then you go on line to many sites, what do I think about this or that, I tell you,
then you say, oh, NO, these people say this or that. (implying I am either stupid or at least do not know what I am talking about).
You do this over and over and over.
You say, "what do you think?" then you go on line, they tell you something else and you come back and the way you present it is "you don't know what you were talking about, the forum, etc. said this and that and see, this thing I forwarded proves you are wrong"
Then many times you come right back to what I initially said, but you never said, "you were right, you knew what you were talking about"
What I said was I think you rely too much on internet information from lots of people who don't know so much but want to vegitate at the computer and spew ego stuff...make themselves look better, smarter, etc. SOME people do know what they are talking about on the net, but many many more, do NOT.
About gardening, I kept saying more or less, if you won't believe me since I have gardened in this area 28 years and it looks like my gardening is working, then asked The man at the Ag Dept rather than asking people on line). Then take whatever you want from what he says and throw away the other. At least your information would be for our local area. Even the local community gardening people do a lot of things either the hard way or wrong but time is a teacher, usually.
You see, you would ask me about something, then go on line, then send me the information you got on line which said NO, you are wrong. You did this over and over. I thought I was very patient about it.
If I can't have my opinions about things without feeling I have to be so careful about them as you will take it the wrong way, or I should say, in a way I did not intend, then that is not a friendship to me.
I shouldn't even go into these things because I don't think you see at all who I am or where I am coming from. I am very tired of you telling me what I thought or how I looked at someone which just shows you do not see my heart.
If I had known I could not even comment about your yawning, I would not have. See, I can't have a close friendship with anyone when I can't make comments BUT had you told me never to ever talk about your yawning, I would have honored that. I would have apologized had I thought I had hurt you about it. Whatever I said, and I don't remember what it was, I can be sure it was not said in a hurtful way, only with concern.
I hated to write all this out, but since your letters kept interpreting things totally opposite to the way my spirit sent them out, or how I meant them, I felt I finally had to take up for my self. I realize it won't do any good because you do not see where I am coming from, who I am, how my heart is.
I have considered you like a sister and I will always only speak highly of you and be glad to see you when I do, but I can not try to have a close relationship with you. I am very sorry. I am also very sorry for any hurt I have given you. From my heart, I apologize.
And so all her denials that I didn't list left me feeling rather crazy. But then I think that she just wanted me to listen to her and no one else since she even argued with me over what the ag man here said. I wanted to give both sides here. Basically though, I feel a loss of a good friend that seems to have changed after her divorce. And when I read this from her I realized that she was not being direct with me either, and I told her so, and I apologized for sending her information off the internet that proved her wrong and told her I would not have continued had she brought it up. She didn?t respond to either. Her last response was this:
I was so stunned, when I realized you thought I was so mean spirited that I, as one of your best friends, could and would be so devious and mean to you. I never would. I can not defend myself because it seemed the things you covered were about our whole friendship time (two years?).
I truly feel anything I say will be turned around on me. It is not something I can fight. I do not intend hurt towards you in any way.
I can say I am very sorry I have ever hurt you in any way. You are one of the nicest, most caring, generous, intelligent people I have ever known, kind hearted, fun. I miss you and treasure the times we had together. Hope everything is working well in your life, you deserve it.
And I told her it had only been those two months, and that I never considered her mean spirited or devious.
Sorry this has been long. I am just trying to sort though it all to understand what went wrong and since your last post to me really helped me with the other woman that is pushy, and how I know I can now be nice to her but continue to say No?always, I wanted your opinion again.
It hasn't been easy since we have also been in the same reading group in town, and I keep thinking of quitting because of that and because I never like the books we are given to read. And it is weird after all of this that when I show up she may have a book to give to me to keep and then I bring her something. But I tried emailing her again, and it was going fine until she brought up again how I think she is mean spirited, etc.
