Should bullying be a criminal offence?

[David Baxter PhD]

Majority wants bullying criminalized, poll finds
by Tamara Baluja, Globe and Mail
Wednesday, February 29, 2012

As Ontario and Quebec schools prepare to bring in anti-bullying legislation, a new poll says a large proportion of Canadians believe it is time for bullying to be regarded as a criminal activity.

Most Canadians agree bullying is a serious problem, with 94 per cent believing it happens in middle school and high school and 88 per cent in elementary school, an Angus Reid online survey of 1,006 Canadian adults found. (This compared to university, where only 43 per cent of respondents believed bullying was a serious problem.) The survey has a margin of error of plus or minus 3.1 per cent, 19 times out of 20.

Bullying is not an offence under the Criminal Code of Canada, but often behaviours like harassment, mischief and uttering threats, which could fall under the large umbrella of bullying behaviour, can lead to criminal charges.

Dalton McGuinty’s government in Ontario has proposed the Accepting Schools Act, which calls for consequences up to expulsion, new policies on bullying prevention and intervention, and school progress reports. If passed, the legislation would go further than current rules, requiring staff to report serious student incidents, contact parents and consider suspending offenders.

In Quebec, legislation tabled by Jean Charest’s government would have schools appoint a person on staff to oversee the implementation of an anti bullying plan and table an annual report. School principals will have the authority to expel repeat offenders, and those boards that fail to comply would be fined.

In the United States, a proposed federal law would make it illegal to use electronic means to “coerce, intimidate, harass or cause other substantial emotional distress.” Nine in 10 Canadians would like to see a similar cyber bullying laws enacted in their own province.

Women were more likely than men to support bringing in cyber bulling laws, with 93 per cent agreeing compared to 87 per cent of men.

The Angus Reid poll also found that two-thirds of respondents think bullying should be considered a crime even if no physical violence is involved.

The results came out on Wednesday as students across the country will don pink shirts in an annual ritual to show they don’t tolerate bullying.

In Toronto, Etobicoke School of Arts student Jacques St. Pierre was one of the lucky few picked to join pop star Lady Gaga at Harvard University for the launch of her anti-bullying foundation. Mr. St. Pierre was bullied for being gay and he reached out to Gaga. She replied with a video, which went viral, and was played at a anti-bullying school rally in November.

“I think I never believed or thought that it would become this huge and people would really start to listen,” the Toronto student said in an interview with CBC while en route to Boston. “People are starting to open their eyes and pay attention to the issues surrounding bullying, and I think it's fantastic that we can be the ones to really lead that change and help make it better for kids all over the world.”

 

[suewatters1]

It's not just us learning to stand up for ourselves. The bullies know who may be weak and abuses them. Since they know it's wrong they should be punished before more people commit suicide because of them.

Sue

 

[forgetmenot]

I think if after they have been approached these bullies and if they do not change then yes they need to know their behavior kills I think more therapy is needed to be set up for both bullies and their families as well to see where all these anger is coming from Something or someone with power needs to step in now before more lives are taken

 

[Ronbell]

I feel the recourse for most things classified as "crimes" is too severe, or indirect in isolating the cause of the problem.

As I've always said: Eliminate poverty and indifference, and you'll have eliminated most crime. Both of which can only be done through proper education.

 

[Sky Abelar]

I say that bullying should definitely not be a criminal offense, and this comes from someone who was bullied continuously from grade one to graduation. There are enough "criminal offenses" in this country already. These are children with emotional and mental problems that need our help, not condemnation. The last thing we need is more ways to become a criminal. Action certainly needs to be taken...perhaps keep the bullies separated from the others for one, and required counseling for the parents and the child would be another.

Another point I would like to make is that none of us are victims. I know that for myself, I was bullied because I attracted it -- not saying it was my fault! Here is what I mean...

I suffered from both physical and emotional abuse from my parents, and this is why I had low self esteem before I ever started school. So, if you are familiar with the law of attraction, you can see how I attracted being bullied. In my mind I picked on myself with negative self-talk...so, "As within, so without"...

This is the same thing you have with women who are abused. You never see women with a healthy self esteem being abused. It is always women who have no self worth. The abuser and 'abusees' are flip sides of the same coin.

Everyone wants to encourage people to feel like a victim of this, and a victim of that, when we really need empowerment. I say that an equal amount of attention should be given to the children who are being bullied, as to those who are doing the bullying, and that attention should be in the form of therapy and counseling, not a cage!

 

[David Baxter PhD]

I say that bullying should definitely not be a criminal offense, and this comes from someone who was bullied continuously from grade one to graduation. There are enough "criminal offenses" in this country already. These are children with emotional and mental problems that need our help, not condemnation. The last thing we need is more ways to become a criminal. Action certainly needs to be taken...perhaps keep the bullies separated from the others for one, and required counseling for the parents and the child would be another.

Another point I would like to make is that none of us are victims. I know that for myself, I was bullied because I attracted it -- not saying it was my fault! Here is what I mean...

I suffered from both physical and emotional abuse from my parents, and this is why I had low self esteem before I ever started school. So, if you are familiar with the law of attraction, you can see how I attracted being bullied. In my mind I picked on myself with negative self-talk...so, "As within, so without"...

This is the same thing you have with women who are abused. You never see women with a healthy self esteem being abused. It is always women who have no self worth. The abuser and 'abusees' are flip sides of the same coin.

Everyone wants to encourage people to feel like a victim of this, and a victim of that, when we really need empowerment. I say that an equal amount of attention should be given to the children who are being bullied, as to those who are doing the bullying, and that attention should be in the form of therapy and counseling, not a cage!

With all due respect, that is total nonsense. If we apply your reasoning, victims of child abuse and child sexual assault are at fault for "attracting" the abuser/pedophile.

I'm going to be very blunt here: It's very clear to me that you know next to nothing about the dynamics of abuse and bullying. Before you go blaming the victim again, I would respectfully suggest that you do your homework, starting with the research literature on child abuse and domestic abuse.

 

[Retired]

There could also be proposals made to change the terminology associated with this form of abuse, as the word bully conjures up old fashioned playful childhood teasing. Unfortunately that kind of thinking is regressive and denies the cruelty this behaviour truly demonstrates.

Some suggestions could be peer abuse, peer criminal asault, child battery.....

 

[H011yHawkJ311yBean]

Bullies need some attention, definitely. But my thought is that it would be beneficial that it be therapeutic attention.... You don't want to throw a bully into jail without any remedial or therapeutic support. All that would likely do would be expose that person to bad influences and possibly more humiliation (if other people bully them in that setting) and might even cause MORE tension and dysfunction between the aggressor and authority in general...

My thinking is that if a person is identified as a bully, they should go through a court system, but be put on some kind of probation where they are required by law to touch base with a probationary officer at certain times, or have a tracking device on them, but put them to work: they have to do speeches at schools regarding abuse/bullying, or they have to do community work of some kind, like helping in a soup kitchen or doing something to help others under supervision. At the same time they should also be required by law to go to therapy with family, group therapy, etc... I do think that sometimes bullying does occur through a cycle inside families...

On some level, what I DO agree with Sky Abelar on is that the victims should ALSO have some kind of empowerment: courses, therapy, workshops, some kind of confidence-building. A victim should also be required by law that if they are bullied they get some therapy right away, and include group and family counseling as well, and maybe even suicide watch of some sort (someone assigned to call that victim at certain times of day on a cell phone or something to see how they are doing). If this support system was there for the victim as well, that would probably keep the suicides down. Or I hope so anyway.

If a bully actually kills someone or assaults someone, or stalks them, then this would definitely require them to be tried as a criminal. But if it's harassment, slandering gossip, trying to lead others to abuse a victim, or other similar issues that cause the victim to have emotional/mental/social/physical issues, then it still needs to be handled, but I feel it would be too harsh to give someone a jail sentence....

So, to summarize, if the behaviour of bullying escalates to physical harm, definitely try as a criminal, like anyone else. But if bullying is reported by the victim, or by someone who witnesses the bullying, then something needs to be done.

It would help if there was a rule similar to that in a few places where if you witness someone is hurt you have to help them... If you are a teacher or a police officer or just a regular bystander and you witness something and don't report it, you could somehow be held responsible for not doing anything. If you are a parent, teacher, relative, friend, bystander you need to report this to another person above you at your organization or to the child's parent or teacher or to social services or SOMEWHERE. Maybe they need to make a specific department at the police or government level specifically to report bullying so people can actually come in and fill out a report or have a report mailed or emailed out to them.

Don't you agree that 1/3 the reason people get away with bullying is the victim is threatened and fearful, another 1/3 is because witnesses don't report it... And the other 1/3 is because it was reported but those who get the reports shrug off or excuse the behaviour, or don't know what to do with the reported information, or try to pass it on to someone and it gets lost in the system....

 

[Sky Abelar]

With all due respect, that is total nonsense. If we apply your reasoning, victims of child abuse and child sexual assault are at fault for "attracting" the abuser/pedophile.

I'm going to be very blunt here: It's very clear to me that you know next to nothing about the dynamics of abuse and bullying. Before you go blaming the victim again, I would respectfully suggest that you do your homework, starting with the research literature on child abuse and domestic abuse.

Here is what I said....

"I know that for myself, I was bullied because I attracted it -- not saying it was my fault! Here is what I mean...

I suffered from both physical and emotional abuse from my parents, and this is why I had low self esteem before I ever started school. So, if you are familiar with the law of attraction, you can see how I attracted being bullied. In my mind I picked on myself with negative self-talk...so, "As within, so without"...

No disrespect intended either, but I think you have misunderstood me, and I sense strong anger in your reaction -- so I wonder if this subject is open to discussion -- not argument. I think it would be beneficial to discuss this for the enlightenment of all...

What I said here has nothing to do with blame. A good example of what I mean is this...

If you jump into the ocean with a bleeding wound on your leg, you will be eaten by sharks. The solution is not to blame you for your wounded leg, but to heal it so you don't get eaten!

When I said that abusers and abusees are flip sides of the same coin, I meant that they are in agreement with each other...

People who are abused always suffer from low self esteem, at least this is what I have always seen -- do you disagree? They feel badly about themselves. The abusers agree with the abusees view of him/herself and respond with abuse. Of course, deep down the abuser is only projecting his own self hatred onto the abusee. So you see...

...Both suffer from self hatred. The solution as I see it is certainly not to "blame" anyone. Part of the reason people have become so dis-empowered is because they immediately feel blamed if they are asked to take responsibility for their life experiences. I don't ever see this as blaming, but empowering. Would you rather be a victim, or someone with a choice? I prefer a choice.

I want to add that in the case with children, they are certainly victims if the adults responsible for them do not take the proper action, and part of that action involves healing the child's low self image so that it stops happening to him or her. Adults on the other hand, can take responsibility and change their circumstances -- either by accepting help, or otherwise. As adults, we never have to remain victims. But again, this still has nothing to do with blaming. Our culture is crazy about blaming for some reason...someone must always be made guilty.

---------- Post added at 11:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 AM ----------

Jollygreenbean,

Hi, you said, " A victim should also be required by law that if they are bullied they get some therapy right away, and include group and family counseling as well..."

I have to say that something feels scary about this position as I can see a time when people could also be forcefully medicated as well. Medication may be good and beneficial, but it always has potential, sometimes deadly, side effects (this is not opinion, but documented fact), and so it must always be the free choice of a person to take it or not. I say that we need to always have free will when it comes to our own bodies and minds -- as long as we aren't harming another.

---------- Post added at 11:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:34 AM ----------

Jollygreenbean,

Hi, you said, " A victim should also be required by law that if they are bullied they get some therapy right away, and include group and family counseling as well..."

I have to say that something feels scary about this position as I can see a time when people could also be forcefully medicated as well. Medication may be good and beneficial, but it always has potential, sometimes deadly, side effects (this is not opinion, but documented fact), and so it must always be the free choice of a person to take it or not. I say that we need to always have free will when it comes to our own bodies and minds -- as long as we aren't harming another.

 

[H011yHawkJ311yBean]

Well, I feel that if the LAW or government or other official group/organization recognizes the bullying AND the victim, doesn't just focus on the bully... And then not only do they recognize the victim but to validate, support, etc... Not just forget about the victim and the help the victim needs but also the support.....

 

[Sky Abelar]

Well, I feel that if the LAW or government or other official group/organization recognizes the bullying AND the victim, doesn't just focus on the bully... And then not only do they recognize the victim but to validate, support, etc... Not just forget about the victim and the help the victim needs but also the support.....

Not sure what you mean...

---------- Post added at 11:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:41 AM ----------

Maybe I should clarify that I believe that if a "child" is bullied, then the parents should be required to get some kind of counseling, along with the child...but if the one being abused or bullied is an adult, that should be their choice.

 

[H011yHawkJ311yBean]

I mean that everyone seems to focus on rehabilitating the bully, but once that's done, I don't know how much help is made available to the victim who may, if not given good support, still suffer low self esteem and PTSD or whatever lingering affects occur after the bullying.

If there is some official log of the victim is being looked after, I feel it's better than just saying, "OK, Victim, the Bully has been given therapy and has been taken care of, has been meted out his sentence/probation/community service. All's well. So you don't have to worry anymore. Now shove off."

 

[Sky Abelar]

I mean that everyone seems to focus on rehabilitating the bully, but once that's done, I don't know how much help is made available to the victim who may, if not given good support, still suffer low self esteem and PTSD or whatever lingering affects occur after the bullying.

If there is some official log of the victim is being looked after, I feel it's better than just saying, "OK, Victim, the Bully has been given therapy and has been taken care of, has been meted out his sentence/probation/community service. All's well. So you don't have to worry anymore. Now shove off."

Yes, totally agree. Both clearly suffer from the same problem -- self-hatred -- and both need help -- not blame. We do need a way for the bully to be stopped immediately though, that's for sure. I wish someone had intervened when I was child. One day a bully hit me over the head from behind with a lunch box filled with sand. I saw stars, literally. For a very long time, and still do somewhat, I believed that schools are like prisons and are being used to beat down and oppress, and brainwash children. I honestly don't see much difference -- forcefully detained and held along with others who form groups who are hostile to one another. Children are left unprotected at the mercy of other children..Prisoners who don't conform and find a group are targeted by the violent and dangerous individuals and groups -- same in schools. School and prison lunchrooms look and feel much the same. When I was in school, I was also forced by teachers to shower naked in front of other students after gym. If that's not sexual abuse and assault, I don't know what is. Of course children made fun of each during that torturous procedure. There is no way in the world that authorities didn't know that that was oppressive, abusive and wrong to do to children -- pure evil. If we want to end bullying, there is a lot that needs changed.

 

[Retired]

People who are abused always suffer from low self esteem, at least this is what I have always seen

Are you making this statement from clinical experience as a health professional or from a lay person's anecdotal observation and interpretation?

 

[Sky Abelar]

Are you making this statement from clinical experience as a health professional or from a lay person's anecdotal observation and interpretation?

From my own personal experience of being bullied, and from talking to many others who have been bullied and abused. It is also my humble opinion that due to the proof provided my modern quantum physicists that like energy attracts like energy, and the law of attraction -- then it is impossible for someone to attract what isn't within themselves.

Are you a professional Steve, and if so, wouldn't you say that all of the professional therapy provided for victims of abuse is all centered around building self esteem and personal empowerment?

 

[Retired]

proof provided my modern quantum physicists that like energy attracts like energy, and the law of attraction -- then it is impossible for someone to attract what isn't within themselves.

I am not a health professional, but I feel it's unreasonable to blame the victim of abuse for the actions of the abuser. I also feel that proposing such a notion on Psychlinks is inappropriate. It is unfair to Forum members who have been and who currently are suffering abuse and contrary to the postive support we want to provide to those enduring abuse.

 

[Sky Abelar]

I am not a health professional, but I feel it's unreasonable to blame the victim of abuse for the actions of the abuser. I also feel that proposing such a notion on Psychlinks is inappropriate. It is unfair to Forum members who have been and who currently are suffering abuse and contrary to the postive support we want to provide to those enduring abuse.

This is not what I have said at all...nothing about blame....

Originally Posted by David Baxter
With all due respect, that is total nonsense. If we apply your reasoning, victims of child abuse and child sexual assault are at fault for "attracting" the abuser/pedophile.

I'm going to be very blunt here: It's very clear to me that you know next to nothing about the dynamics of abuse and bullying. Before you go blaming the victim again, I would respectfully suggest that you do your homework, starting with the research literature on child abuse and domestic abuse.



Here is what I said....

"I know that for myself, I was bullied because I attracted it -- not saying it was my fault! Here is what I mean...

I suffered from both physical and emotional abuse from my parents, and this is why I had low self esteem before I ever started school. So, if you are familiar with the law of attraction, you can see how I attracted being bullied. In my mind I picked on myself with negative self-talk...so, "As within, so without"...

No disrespect intended either, but I think you have misunderstood me, and I sense strong anger in your reaction -- so I wonder if this subject is open to discussion -- not argument. I think it would be beneficial to discuss this for the enlightenment of all...

What I said here has nothing to do with blame. A good example of what I mean is this...

If you jump into the ocean with a bleeding wound on your leg, you will be eaten by sharks. The solution is not to blame you for your wounded leg, but to heal it so you don't get eaten!

When I said that abusers and abusees are flip sides of the same coin, I meant that they are in agreement with each other...

People who are abused always suffer from low self esteem, at least this is what I have always seen -- do you disagree? They feel badly about themselves. The abusers agree with the abusees view of him/herself and respond with abuse. Of course, deep down the abuser is only projecting his own self hatred onto the abusee. So you see...

...Both suffer from self hatred. The solution as I see it is certainly not to "blame" anyone. Part of the reason people have become so dis-empowered is because they immediately feel blamed if they are asked to take responsibility for their life experiences. I don't ever see this as blaming, but empowering. Would you rather be a victim, or someone with a choice? I prefer a choice.

I want to add that in the case with children, they are certainly victims if the adults responsible for them do not take the proper action, and part of that action involves healing the child's low self image so that it stops happening to him or her. Adults on the other hand, can take responsibility and change their circumstances -- either by accepting help, or otherwise. As adults, we never have to remain victims. But again, this still has nothing to do with blaming. Our culture is crazy about blaming for some reason...someone must always be made guilty."

I don't understand this insistance that I am blaming when I have jumped through hoops explaining my meaning that I had already done everything I could to make clear.

 

[Retired]

Sky,

Please refrain from copy/pasting text you have previously posted.

 

[Sky Abelar]

Sky,

Please refrain from copy/pasting text you have previously posted.

Ok, I give up, as it is against forum rules to argue. I have tried to explain something here that I felt very passionate and positive about -- in a clear and concise manner, and have not been listened to or heard. That is ok. I feel that I am being bullied here for my opinion -- that has not been understood.

I see that this subject is not open to discussion and my "round planet theory" is not welcome. No hard feelings,

Peace be with you,
Sky A.

 

[forgetmenot]

I am sorry you feel like you are being bullied here but as a victim of bullying myself how would i have changed me when i did not have those skills
The bullies yes they need help because i do believe they too are in pain or else why would they attack someone so weak.

What you have said is confusing to me i try to understand you want to help both parties here i agree to that statement but Perhaps in you head you feel like you were to blame for those attacks when in fact the blame was never yours
You did nothing but be yourself even if it was a self with low confidence you did not deserve to be attacked.
YOU did not ask for it you did not attracked it the bully yes saw a person that could not fight back but that was not your fault.
I am getting confused but i know noone ever is to blamed for being harmed.
Adults can find therapy and can help themselves aftr the fact but that too takes so much toll on them to relive a past of pain.
I think if physical harm or constant emotional pain in being put on someone then consequences for that behavior must be made or how else will the bully ever change Treatment yes definetly but consequences for their behavior it has to be there