I am just curious if perhaps some of us might dispell some rumors or clarify some issues regarding our two systems. I live in MN (USA) and we have a program for the poor (those making under $8k a year, I believe) called GAMC, and it essentially is free healthcare, with caps on certain things like hospitalization, etc. I am just curious how different the two systems are? In MN, I have been on GAMC; I was hospitalized for several days (at a bill of about $12k) and it was covered entirely by the State. I understand that from state to state all local systems vary and that MN is among the best in the country, but I am not schooled in anything other than the fact that I understand that in other state certain demographics (immigrants) are suffocating places like California and are hurting other healthcare standards in other states throughout America. Nevertheless, does anyone have any thoughts on anything, including perhaps your local situation?
- Thread starter Roy H.
- Start date
Re: America vs. Canada (the Healthcare debate)
In Canada health care is pretty much covered with the exception of Chiropractors, Dentists, Psychologists and Optometrists. Anyone correct me if I am wrong
With the government health plan, unless one is on disability or on pention then prescriptions are not covered.
Things that are covered are major or minor surgeries that are not considered "elective". An elective surgery would be stuff like removing certian moles, cosmetic surgery in a lot of cases is elective unless the person has had an accident.
Here is a scary example. My cousin was born with a major heart condition. At two days old, he had to have surgery to repair his heart. He went to Sick Childrens Hospital where they operated sucessfully. My aunt and uncle were told that surgery alone if not covered would have cost them $20,000. At two years old my cousin had full open heart surgery, my aunt inquired again. This one would have been $40,000.
These types of things are covered entirely for all Canadians. We all get the same basic care. I remember a friend who lives in Montana who could not get to see a Psychiatrist because they only took a certian amount of MedicAid cases. She went without proper care cause she was on MedicAid. This type of thing does not happen in Canada. If the doctor is taking new patients, the patient will be seen.
We can also have health care insurance through work for example that may cover all or a portion of prescriptions, glasses, Psychologists, Chiropractors and Dentists, some offer semi-private hospital rooms too. Just depends on the company and their plan.
In Canada health care is pretty much covered with the exception of Chiropractors, Dentists, Psychologists and Optometrists. Anyone correct me if I am wrong
With the government health plan, unless one is on disability or on pention then prescriptions are not covered.Things that are covered are major or minor surgeries that are not considered "elective". An elective surgery would be stuff like removing certian moles, cosmetic surgery in a lot of cases is elective unless the person has had an accident.
Here is a scary example. My cousin was born with a major heart condition. At two days old, he had to have surgery to repair his heart. He went to Sick Childrens Hospital where they operated sucessfully. My aunt and uncle were told that surgery alone if not covered would have cost them $20,000. At two years old my cousin had full open heart surgery, my aunt inquired again. This one would have been $40,000.
These types of things are covered entirely for all Canadians. We all get the same basic care. I remember a friend who lives in Montana who could not get to see a Psychiatrist because they only took a certian amount of MedicAid cases. She went without proper care cause she was on MedicAid. This type of thing does not happen in Canada. If the doctor is taking new patients, the patient will be seen.
We can also have health care insurance through work for example that may cover all or a portion of prescriptions, glasses, Psychologists, Chiropractors and Dentists, some offer semi-private hospital rooms too. Just depends on the company and their plan.
All state governments in the U.S. have health insurance programs for otherwise uninsured infants, children, and teens:
InsureKidsNow.gov
It seems many American parents are still unaware that such programs exist.
Of course, once an American turns 20, there is usually no such government safety net until one becomes eligible for Medicare or Medicaid, though state-funded colleges and universities do help provide affordable, private healthcare plans to students, which can be paid for with student loans or the federal financial assistance provided to students of lower-income families. (And many students still receive coverage as a dependent in their parents' private health insurance.)
For those who are receiving SSDI or SSI, they instantly become eligible for Medicaid. For those receiving SSDI, they also become eligible for Medicare after being on SSDI for two years.
BTW, in my state, it costs on average about $155 a month for privately insured catastrophic coverage that extends to people with pre-existing conditions, but there is a lifetime maximum coverage limit as low as $50,000 and significant deductibles up to $3,000:
http://www.coverfloridahealthcare.com/
OTOH:NicNak said:
1) The best psychiatrist I ever saw was in the largest city I lived in, so there are cases where moving to a bigger city can be better both medically and socially. (He also accepted new Medicaid patients.) The suicide rate is higher for people living in rural areas with less resources.
2) Seeing a psychologist or therapist can be even more expensive than seeing a psychiatrist given the frequency of visits. Both Medicaid and Medicare in the US do cover seeing a therapist/psychologist. To my knowledge, the "free" healthcare in Canada usually does not.
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Re: America vs. Canada (the Healthcare debate)
You're right - psychologists and therapists are not covered here. Private insurance through most employers usually covers a meager $500 per year. I really wish more coverage was available. I need my therapist more than I need my family doctor right now. I'd rather pay to go to my doctor (I'm usually in once a year, tops) and have coverage for my therapist but alas, we cannot pick and choose.
You're right - psychologists and therapists are not covered here. Private insurance through most employers usually covers a meager $500 per year. I really wish more coverage was available. I need my therapist more than I need my family doctor right now. I'd rather pay to go to my doctor (I'm usually in once a year, tops) and have coverage for my therapist but alas, we cannot pick and choose.
It doesn't seem to me that Canada's Health care is as rosie as it is portrayed by some people. I am not sure how I feel about this. In MN, again, I receive essentially free healthcare. I had a tonsilectomy (<-- spelling mistake I'm sure) at $3k and I had to pay not a cent. Of course, I am a current student and make very little a year, so that plays into it all. My new brother in law is from Canada and I hope to talk to him more about this.
BTW, I recently had three prescriptions filled (Fluoxetine, Hydroxizine and Seroquel) and I payed a total of $6.00.
BTW, I recently had three prescriptions filled (Fluoxetine, Hydroxizine and Seroquel) and I payed a total of $6.00.
David Baxter PhD
Late Founder
If you qualify for a Ontario Disability Support Pension, you'd pay the same here: $2 per prescription refill.
No comment
Certainly, Michael Moore's documentary was too favorable about Canada's healthcare system:
David Baxter PhD
Late Founder
I doubt that anyone in Canada, patients, doctors, or other health professionals, would describe Canada's health system as "rosy" currently. On the other hand, there is at least basic care available to every citizen. As a starting point, I would still vote for that over alternate systems.
As for Michael Moore, I can't say that I've ever been a fan, either of his "60 Minutes" style of pseudojournalism or of his predilection for cherry picking facts (or simply making them up) to suit whatever opinion he's trying to push on any given day. He's an entertainer, not a documentarian.
As for Michael Moore, I can't say that I've ever been a fan, either of his "60 Minutes" style of pseudojournalism or of his predilection for cherry picking facts (or simply making them up) to suit whatever opinion he's trying to push on any given day. He's an entertainer, not a documentarian.
And there are more Americans without healthcare coverage (~47 million) than there are Canadian citizens (32 million).
OTOH:
But there certainly needs to be a number of reforms in US healthcare to cover gaps for the temporarily unemployed who can't afford coverage, the working poor, people with pre-existing conditions, etc., and I think Obama will accomplish at least some of that.
What if you don't qualify though?
I can't say I'm a big fan of Obama (without getting too partisan in this thread, I'll leave it at that). Although I believe in States' rights, this has led many to my state for our above-average welfare, healthcare included. So something perhaps has to happen on a universal (nation wide) level to address this issue. Pawlenty has made some 2 billion in budget cuts of which will be in affect by next year, millions of which will be cut for general assistance medical care. I am not entirely sure how this will effect me, yet. As long as you don't make over $8k - which is a joke, I know - then you won't be effected. Still, I believe for people in the $10-20K a year income range get lower premiums if/when they go through MNCare (GAMC).
David Baxter PhD
Late Founder
Then you need private insurance (i.e., a drug plan) or you pay for it yourself.
I would find trying to get into all those additonal programs confusing. What happens in an emergency? What if someone does not know what is available in all the different states? I see there are assistance programs in place to assist some Americans, but what about the others?
In Canada, if I am run over on the street, the ambulance comes picks me up and takes me to the hospital. They get my health card and there is no worries, except for me getting better. All basic care is covered, including surgeries, anestetics etc.
I do not need to source out all these additional fundings. I am lucky I also have company insurance thorugh work, but even without it, I would still be fine.
Interms of prescriptions, we also have generic suppliers here. Which is quite significantly cheaper than name brand prescriptions.
In Canada, if I am run over on the street, the ambulance comes picks me up and takes me to the hospital. They get my health card and there is no worries, except for me getting better. All basic care is covered, including surgeries, anestetics etc.
I do not need to source out all these additional fundings. I am lucky I also have company insurance thorugh work, but even without it, I would still be fine.
Interms of prescriptions, we also have generic suppliers here. Which is quite significantly cheaper than name brand prescriptions.
All emergency departments in the U.S. are legally required to provide care to anyone regardless of their ability to pay. Of course, this policy costs taxpayers a lot of money because some people who can't afford to see a family physician will use the ER as a regular clinic.
David Baxter PhD
Late Founder
That also happens here, because in many areas newcomers can't find a doctor who's taking new patients.
Among other problems, this clogs up emergency departments for those real emergencies...
I always figured that disability would be the same right across the country. Here prescriptions are free (on disability) except for ones that aren't a necessity like acne creams etc., I guess things that are more cosmetic.
Also we get free Chiropractors, Dentists, Psychologists and Optometrists on top of Medical doctors and psychiatrists. Everything is covered.
David Baxter PhD
Late Founder
No. Health Care, though mandated by the federal government, is a provincial responsibility so it's up to each province to decide what they will and will not cover.
Ontario cancelled vision tests a couple of years ago from the provinical general health plan. They never covered dentists or psychologists. And nobody should be covering chiropractors, in my opinion. Physiotherapy is another matter but Ontario cancelled that as well for most people.
For people on ODSP, I'm not sure how much is or is not covered these days. The McGuinty Liberal government has done a lot of sly damage in the past 6 years or so. And before they took power, we were still reeling from years of Mike Harris Conservative cuts.
That doesn't sound like "universal" healthcare to me.
The program isn't that complex. Just to go through the county of your residence and they will likely run you through the process. They even have a website: General Assistance Medical Care (GAMC)
And we, too, have generic prescriptions.
I have heard that if you so much as even step inside an ambulance you get a bill in the mail in the $700 range, but I can not verify this. I was in one recently so I will find out soon enough. Also, donations cover many people as well. I maxed out my limit for a behavioral health care unit visist once and returned; When I got home a $16k bill was waiting for me. However, they sent me a packet of forms to fill out - income, assets, etc. - and they payed for the whole $16k. It can be scary though to see those kinds of bills in your name.
No kidding. That can get costly having to see one of those specialists alone and most people do not just need one.
Supposedly we have the best health care in the country or we use to anyway. a lot of things have been happening since they brought in this "super board" so who knows where it will go.
NicNak said:
And we have $4 generic drugs at Walmart.
David Baxter PhD
Late Founder
Nearly One Fifth of Emergency Department Visits Are by the Uninsured
Nearly One Fifth of Emergency Department Visits Are by the Uninsured
by Martha Kerr, Medscape News
July 15, 2009
US Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) Secretary Kathleen Sebelius released new data today from the Nationwide Emergency Department Sample, the largest all-payer emergency department (ED) database in the country, showing that a disproportionate number of visits were made by uninsured or low-income patients.
There were nearly 120 million ED visits in 2006, according to the HHS's Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality (AHRQ). Nearly one fifth were made by patients without health insurance, Secretary Sebelius said, and one fifth were made by residents of rural areas. One third of ED visits were made by low-income patients.
"Our healthcare system has forced too many uninsured, rural, and low-income Americans to depend on the emergency room for the care they need," Secretary Sebelius said in an HHS release announcing the new findings. "We cannot wait for reform that gives all Americans the high-quality, affordable care they need and helps prevent illnesses from turning into emergencies."
The Nationwide Emergency Department Sample contains 26 million records from ED visits to approximately 1000 community hospitals nationwide, or approximately 20% of all US EDs.
The sample shows national estimates on the number of ED visits to all community hospitals by region, urban vs rural location, teaching status, ownership, and trauma designation. It also contains data on the acute management of patients, including the reason for the visit, the treatments they received, visit outcome (admission, discharge, or transfer to another hospital; death in the ED; or leaving the ED against medical advice). Charges for the visit and who was billed were also recorded.
AHRQ also released the 2007 Nationwide Inpatient Sample today, which is the largest database on hospital care in the United States. HHS officials say it "...provides users with an in-depth look at why patients were hospitalized, the treatments and procedures they received, and what happened to them at discharge. Researchers can use the Nationwide Inpatient Sample to examine trend data as far back as 1988."
The 2007 Nationwide Inpatient Sample contains discharge data from 8 million hospital stays at more than 1000 community hospitals.
Martha Kerr is a freelance writer for Medscape.
Nearly One Fifth of Emergency Department Visits Are by the Uninsured
by Martha Kerr, Medscape News
July 15, 2009
US Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) Secretary Kathleen Sebelius released new data today from the Nationwide Emergency Department Sample, the largest all-payer emergency department (ED) database in the country, showing that a disproportionate number of visits were made by uninsured or low-income patients.
There were nearly 120 million ED visits in 2006, according to the HHS's Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality (AHRQ). Nearly one fifth were made by patients without health insurance, Secretary Sebelius said, and one fifth were made by residents of rural areas. One third of ED visits were made by low-income patients.
"Our healthcare system has forced too many uninsured, rural, and low-income Americans to depend on the emergency room for the care they need," Secretary Sebelius said in an HHS release announcing the new findings. "We cannot wait for reform that gives all Americans the high-quality, affordable care they need and helps prevent illnesses from turning into emergencies."
The Nationwide Emergency Department Sample contains 26 million records from ED visits to approximately 1000 community hospitals nationwide, or approximately 20% of all US EDs.
The sample shows national estimates on the number of ED visits to all community hospitals by region, urban vs rural location, teaching status, ownership, and trauma designation. It also contains data on the acute management of patients, including the reason for the visit, the treatments they received, visit outcome (admission, discharge, or transfer to another hospital; death in the ED; or leaving the ED against medical advice). Charges for the visit and who was billed were also recorded.
AHRQ also released the 2007 Nationwide Inpatient Sample today, which is the largest database on hospital care in the United States. HHS officials say it "...provides users with an in-depth look at why patients were hospitalized, the treatments and procedures they received, and what happened to them at discharge. Researchers can use the Nationwide Inpatient Sample to examine trend data as far back as 1988."
The 2007 Nationwide Inpatient Sample contains discharge data from 8 million hospital stays at more than 1000 community hospitals.
Martha Kerr is a freelance writer for Medscape.
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