Bath Salts = schizophrenia?

[GDPR]

My son was heavy into bath salts. He consumed very large quantities over a span of a few months. To make a long story short, he didn't sleep for 18 days straight and is now is prison for his criminal activity during the time he was using.

He has been diagnosed with schizophrenia. My question is, can bath salts cause permanent psychosis? Or is it more likely that the bath salts brought out something that was already there to begin with? He had no signs of schizophrenia before he began using the bath salts.

 

[Daniel E.]

Re: Bath Salts=schizophrenia?

Or is it more likely that the bath salts brought out something that was already there to begin with?

Especially, I assume, if mental illness runs in his family.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

Re: Bath Salts=schizophrenia?

It could be either. Even a drug-induced psychosis can be "permanent", although not all are.

 

[Daniel E.]

How long has your son been in prison (where he is less likely to be using substances)? Do you know how frequent his psychotic episodes are now? I assume they are less intense now, at least.

Some background info:

“If you take the worst attributes of meth, coke, PCP, LSD and ecstasy and put them together,” he said, “that’s what we’re seeing sometimes.”

Adverse effects reported among the 205 users of mephedrone

Clinical experience with and analytical confirmation of "bath salts" and "legal highs" (synthetic cathinones) in the United States ("Clinical effects...including psychotic episodes often requiring sedation, movement disorders, and tachycardia.")

Substance-induced psychosis

Regarding another substance, meth:

Courts need to know...that methamphetamine psychosis or methamphetamine-related violence persists for months after abstinence and can be triggered by substances other than methamphetamine to include alcohol, marijuana, cocaine, opiates, and even caffeine.

Methamphetamine use: clinical and forensic aspects - Sandra B. McPherson, Harold V. Hall, Errol Yudko - Google Books

Since you seem to have had some experience with bath salts yourself, you have some intuition about the short-term effects already:

http://forum.psychlinks.ca/addictiv...showing-up-in-emergency-rooms.html#post188237

However, the long-term effects of bath salts are relatively unknown.

 

[GDPR]

Since you seem to have had some experience with bath salts yourself

I don't have experience with bath salts. I have never tried it. I have tried the synthetic marijuana before though, but these are 2 completely different things.

My son has been in prison for about 6 or 7 months and was just recently diagnosed. He doesn't have psychotic 'episodes'. He wasn't the same after he started doing the bath salts. He said there was no other drug like it, that it was THE most intense he had ever done. He went into his own little reality or something. It changed everything about him; his looks(of course), his personality, everything. He started hallucinating and thought people were chasing him, to kill him. He shot at people that weren't there. He was psychotic.

Some of his friends aren't the same anymore either. I do believe the bath salts did permanent damage to all of them. But I'm not sure,since he was diagnosed with schizophrenia. My husband's brother is schizophrenic, that's why I'm wondering if the drug brought out what was already there or if bath salts really can cause permanent psychosis.

 

[Daniel E.]

I don't have experience with bath salts. I have never tried it.

Sorry. I was probably experiencing information overload.

My son has been in prison for about 6 or 7 months and was just recently diagnosed.

Yeah, that doesn't sound good since it seems he has been drug-free (of the harmful/recreational drugs) for a while.

 

[GDPR]

Yeah, that doesn't sound good

Not exactly sure what you mean....

 

[Daniel E.]

Well, I just mean if it was just a week or month ago or so when he stopped taking bath salts, then -- just from what I have been reading -- I would expect more of a change for the better (sooner than later). But since it has been 7+ months, a diagnosis of schizophrenia doesn't seem unreasonable at all -- regardless of what the precipitating factors were:

Genetics, early environment, neurobiology, and psychological and social processes appear to be important contributory factors; some recreational and prescription drugs appear to cause or worsen symptoms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia

Is he on antipsychotics now or is he refusing medication?

BTW:

Primary psychiatric causes of psychosis include the following:^[10][11][12]

• schizophrenia and schizophreniform disorder
• affective (mood) disorders, including severe depression, and severe depression or mania in bipolar disorder (manic depression). People experiencing a psychotic episode in the context of depression may experience persecutory or self-blaming delusions or hallucinations, while people experiencing a psychotic episode in the context of mania may form grandiose delusions.
• schizoaffective disorder, involving symptoms of both schizophrenia and mood disorders
• brief psychotic disorder, or acute/transient psychotic disorder
• delusional disorder (persistent delusional disorder)
• chronic hallucinatory psychosis

Psychotic symptoms may also be seen in^[12]

• schizotypal disorder
• certain personality disorders at times of stress (including paranoid personality disorder, schizoid personality disorder, and borderline personality disorder)
• major depressive disorder in its severe form although it is possible and more likely to have severe depression without psychosis
• bipolar disorder in severe mania and/or severe depression although it is possible to have severe mania and/or severe depression without psychosis as well, in fact that is more commonly the case
• post-traumatic stress disorder
• induced delusional disorder
• Sometimes in obsessive-compulsive disorder

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosis#Psychiatric_disorders

 

[GDPR]

regardless of what the precipitating factors were.

Yeah, I guess it doesn't really matter now anyway, finding out whether it was the bath salts or not wouldn't change his condition.

Yes he's on antipsychotics now,along with a couple of other things.

 

[Daniel E.]

Similarly:

Evidence that the symptoms are better accounted for by a Psychotic Disorder that is not substance induced might include the following: the symptoms precede the onset of the substance use (or medication use); the symptoms persist for a substantial period of time (e.g., about a month) after the cessation of acute withdrawal or severe intoxication, or are substantially in excess of what would be expected given the type or amount of the substance used or the duration of use; or there is other evidence that suggests the existence of an independent non-substance induced Psychotic Disorder (e.g., a history of recurrent non-substance-related episodes)


Symptoms of Substance-Induced Psychotic Disorder - Schizophrenia Schizoaffective Online - Symptoms, Treatments, Resources

 

[GDPR]

So, from what I have been reading, if it was indeed the bath salts, there's a possibility that he may eventually be ok.....or maybe not.

It's pretty scary to know kids are snorting/injecting/smoking something that may contain things like comet cleanser(the bath salts he did had comet in it). I have never seen the behavior my son had with any other drug, and I have seen people shoot heroin, do pcp, coke,and just about every other drug there is. In my opinion, bath salts is THE worst thing there is.

 

[Daniel E.]

Regarding meth since there is more info about it than bath salts:

What explains the link between meth and schizophrenia? Dr. Stephen Kish, head of the center's human brain lab, said in the statement that one possibility was that repeated use of meth triggers latent schizophrenia by sensitizing the brain to dopamine. A brain chemical (neurotransmitter), dopamine is involved in motivation, pleasure, and reward - and is thought to be associated with mental illness.

Methamphetamine tied to schizophrenia: What explains link? - HealthPop - CBS News

"We really do not understand how these drugs might increase schizophrenia risk," co-investigator Stephen Kish, MD, senior scientist and head of the Human Brain Laboratory at CAMH, said in a release."

Perhaps repeated use of methamphetamine and cannabis in some susceptible individuals can trigger latent schizophrenia by sensitizing the brain to dopamine, a brain chemical thought to be associated with psychosis."

The investigators note that further research is needed, including long-term follow-up studies. Dr. Callaghan reported that his team is now working on extending the current study to Sweden and other states in the United States, and eventually to western Australia, "to see if these patterns can replicate."

"We hope that understanding the mechanism of the drug addiction-schizophrenia relationship will help in the future development of better therapies for both conditions," he said."

The overall finding was surprising because the field has not really paid attention to these potential issues, although there has been a lot of interest in marijuana use," said Dr. Volkow.

"We've known that methamphetamine use produces psychosis, but it tends to be of short duration and then disappear. This data is showing that that's not necessarily the case and there are some subjects that may go on to have a full-blown diagnosis of schizophrenia."

Dr. Volkow added that this study confirms findings from previous imaging studies, using both animal and human populations, showing that repeated exposure to drugs affects the biochemistry, function, and even structure of the brain.

She also noted that the finding that alcohol use increased the risk for schizophrenia was unusual and unexpected...

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http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/753819