Erotomania (Clerambault Syndrome)?

[a_squared]

Hello everybody, there is something happening with me for more than a year now and I need some more opinions on this.

I am 24, a psychology student, female. I need to be honest, I have a pretty long psychoatric history: I've been diagnosed with BPD and Major Depression, I tried to commit suicide three times, and I was self-injuring for years. In high school I was anorexic (and bulimic afterwards). I've been hospitalised 3 times in a psychiatric institution, been treated with many medicaments, was seeing even a private therapist, but nothing of this helped.

Now I am okay - I am successful at school and a good student. I can speak up my opinions, and stand after what I say; I can take responsibilities for my actions, in other words, no one would ever think that I was a psychiatric patient. I socialise with people well, and I have no problems of meeting new people.

This drastic change (I still feel it is drastic) started a year ago, when I actually saw this woman who is a central news anchor at a TV channel (I won't say now who). As I was really depressed, I allowed myself to fall in love with her (I thought that falling in love at that time would be a nice change, for I was literally dead). At first, I could do with watching a part of the news bulletin, and be happy, later I needed to watch the whole of it, and if I knew there were other information shows that she would host, I would be really sad if something prevented me to watch them; I had also found her blog, where occassionally I would leave comments, and feel happy every time when I saw them published (for some reason I was scared that she won't).

I did send her a card for New Year (last year). A friend of mine told me it was okay. I knew that there was no possibility that I would get an answer from her, but nevertheless, I was constantly checking my mailbox. And then happened something that I didn't realise back then, but I realise it now - I had started to watch the whole news bulletin, paying attention on her words and her facial expression, trying to figure out whether she got my card! I think it's redundant to say that I did find these "signs".

Later, I sent her some poems via e-mail (I sent her many poems by mail, for I know for sure that she likes poetry) and left the link of my blog in the mail. I was tracking the IPs and I wanted to believe for some static IP that it was her, although I never had a good proof that it was her (or wasn't...).

I am not of the people who are feeling unloved; there were people around me these last months who did show interest in me, but I didn't show interest in them. It's like, that I can't love anyone, that is not her. My reason says, those are the things I know: I can't be with her, I will never even meet her or even look in her eyes without the TV mirror in between, I know she has a life, her life, and that she simply can't love me for she doesn't even know me, for her, I don't exist. But I can't fight my emotions and these vain hopes.

Can someone help me please, tell me if this really is erotomania, and what I could do? I don't want to chase her or try to find where she lives in order to abide at her doorstep; truth be told, I know she can't care about me, and I know what a torture it is to be "loved" so obsessively by someone you don't want. How is it treated? What could I do to get over it?

Thank you.

 

[Daniel E.]

there is something happening with me for more than a year now

Can someone help me please, tell me if this really is erotomania, and what I could do?

You would have to see a mental health professional like a psychiatrist or psychologist to get a diagnosis.

Certainly, what you are describing is a mental health issue and you are in need of professional treatment. The treatment would depend on what the disorder is, but most mental health disorders are treated by therapy like CBT along with medication.

 

[Retired]

Can someone help me please, tell me if this really is erotomania

Have you discussed this with your therapist or physician? As you can appreciate we cannot provide a diagnosis here.

Do you have an ongoing active relationship with anyone at this time?

 

[a_squared]

Thank you TSOW for bringing up my post :jiggy:

I am not seeing a psychiatrist, I have stopped since I've started to feel better, and I've started to feel better when I "fell in love with her". Apart from the fact that I get all anxious when I need to miss a news bulletin because of work/university lectures, I am functioning normally and better than ever before (there are no signs of depression, self-harm, there are no dark/suicidal thoughts). I know this is for therapy, but I don't want to lose her, because I feel like I will lose "my sanity" if I lose her (manner of speech, I can't lose her, I am well aware that she is not mine and that she doesn't love me, but I will lose that "bond" that ties me to her, be it transfer or identification, or whatever).

I am not in a relationship -have written about it- although there were guys who showed interest in me in the past months, I didn't want to get into any relationship, sometimes I get the feeling that I don't wish to allow it to myself for not losing that "safety bond" with "my" newscaster.

 

[Jazzey]

Can someone help me please, tell me if this really is erotomania, and what I could do? I don't want to chase her or try to find where she lives in order to abide at her doorstep; truth be told, I know she can't care about me, and I know what a torture it is to be "loved" so obsessively by someone you don't want. How is it treated? What could I do to get over it?

I was tracking the IPs

...I'm sorry it's not an area with which I'm familiar. I would caution you, very gently, on some of your behaviors. Specifically, the following:

I did send her a card for New Year (last year)

trying to figure out whether she got my card!

I sent her some poems via e-mail

I sent her many poems by mail

left the link of my blog in the mail.

I wish I could offer you something more reassuring -all I have is my own personal experience. While I do not occupy a glamorous job, by any stretch of the imagination, I've been at the receiving end of these types of behaviors. And, unfortunately, the recipient doesn't know or understand the motivation. As a result, it can be very scary. I initially started receiving mail at my work. Then at my home - I moved. Then I received legal documents from the registry of deeds from this person indicating that he knew where I lived now. He then sent me a nice letter inviting me to a family gathering....It's all very scary when you don't know the person...I've been, on and off, under police protection for the past 2 years - it's exhausting.

I by no means want to make you feel bad about where you are - I hope you find answers. But I do want to give you the perspective from the recipient's point of view. Until and unless she gives you any concrete evidence that your advances are welcome, I would ask that you stop.

And, yes I agree with Daniel- you're looking for answers which require a professional evaluation.

I offer you a lending ear and tons of support A-squared.:support:

...I hope you find the answers to your questions.

 

[a_squared]

Jazzy,

Thank you, I know. I've bumped upon a "stalker" on the net and I thought he was a nice guy till I stopped communicating with him; and then, something like drastically changed, he started sending gifts, e-mails, SMS, and all these things made me scared to death. That is why I started to evaluate my behaviour towards the newscaster and figured out that "loving" is not always the nicest of things, right? The friends I've asked about for opinions told me that "she is a public person and that she must have become used to that sort of behaviour" but the last thing I want for anyone is to feel like I have felt with that guy (I am still scared he might bump some day at my door), and I guess that is how you have felt also.

Thus I completely understand your remarks... and thank you!

 

[Jazzey]

Thank you A_squared - My remarks were made with the upmost respect towards you and your situation. And, while I'm saddened that you know that fear, I know that you'll take this into consideration when you want to contact her.

And I hope you'll give us updates on what you discover I think it took a lot of strength to write your post A_squared. I support you 100% in finding the answers you're looking for!

 

[a_squared]

Jazzey, (misspelled your name last time, sorry :noidea: )

I didn't need that much strength to write the post... Not that I am a hero or something, but I've figured out that when you manage to tell the truth to yourself (and thus accept it), you will have no problem at all of telling it to others also. I've been an identified psychiatric patient for years :doctor: , so I just got used to other peoples' looks.. and on the net it's easier for I can't see yours :noidea:

Thank you once more

 

[Jazzey]

- I like your style a_squared. And I hope that some of your wisdom rubs off on me!

 

[a_squared]

Wisdom!! I just like books And that is all, I swear!

Those "philosophical thoughts" are actually what I got from her and introjected, so I throw them all around without any thinking, so you'll excuse me for them... and eventually get used to them... I guess...

 

[Jazzey]

 

[Daniel E.]

I know this is for therapy, but I don't want to lose her, because I feel like I will lose "my sanity" if I lose her

Of course, there may be other reasons as well, and you may have trouble seeing it because you may be using your crush/obsession with this TV personality to displace desires, conflicts, etc. that are distressing. That may seem to help in the short term but may not be a good idea in the long term. In other words, this doesn't seem like a harmless crush, as may be evidenced by your inability or unwillingness to move on. You seem stuck. But that's just my 2 cents

(there are no signs of depression, self-harm, there are no dark/suicidal thoughts)

Even if that is true, that does not obviate seeking evaluation and treatment, especially with the emphasis now on positive psychology. In other words, you don't need to feel distress to benefit from therapy. Also, maintenance therapy is an effective way to prevent relapses before troubling symptoms recur.

 

[amastie]

Hi a squared,

I think you underestimate your own intuitiveness - and your courage! As much as I understand that it is easier to tell your truth to others when you have arrived at it, clearly, to yourself, it is still a very big leap to put your truth out there to be heard by others.

I also agree very much that you need to see a psychiatrist or therapist familiar with your experience. What you describe, even though you haven't experienced the depression since you have started to feel this way about the tv host, to me sounds not so much like a "better" or more healthy state of feeling but simply a "different" way of feeling - for example, an escape from feeling bad. To me, that doesn't mean you are less in need of professional help, even though it feels better. Many people for example, who have bipolar disorder, often refuse to see a psychiatrist when they are high because it feels *so* good, but the end result of that feeling is a downer so great that it devastes them. Isn't wanting to hold onto the thought that the tv host might respond a way of not looking at the real. And it worries me, a squared, that the fantasy will (like the person with bipolar who holds onto the high) will also leave you devastated - even though you don't think so now.

My heart goes out to you, a woman with such courage, in your own words, caught in what seems to be a flight from feeling that are agonizing to experience...

Quoting your words in your first post in this thread " I feel like I will lose "my sanity" if I lose ......that "bond" that ties me to her, be it transfer or identification, or whatever)".

I truly believe that you need to the help of a psychiatrist to help face, *and* heal from those feelings which this crush is helping you to avoid because, as good as it feels, the way you are avoiding them I cannot see offering your any final resolution.

I'm sorry, but that is truly how I see it. You're welcome to argue back

Given the choice, I think many of us would rather live the fantasy! It just fails to provide a final answer so that, in the end, we're never free of our pain.

You deserve support. You deserve caring and understanding. If you haven't found it so far with the therapists/psychiatrists you have seen so far, don't give up. I took many years to find a psychiatrist who would understand exactly what I experienced.

I wish you the strength and calmness to keep going till you find that right professional for you. (Maybe it would help to make a list of what you need in a therapist, then you would have something to compare the therapists you see. You might find someone in a place totally removed from where you most expect!)

:support:

Keeping you strongly in my thoughts

amastie

 

[a_squared]

Of course, there may be other reasons as well, and you may have trouble seeing it because you may be using your crush/obsession with this TV personality to displace desires, conflicts, etc.

Or maybe I have "introjected" her, she became an idol I would like to reach, and thus "learned" as would good old behaviorists say to act like she does? I know, by searching up my feelings, that this was not just a simple crash, although it might look like it; I honestly and deeply admire what she is and how she is dealing with things, the way she talks and many of her beliefs. I used to fall in love and have crushes before, but none managed to change my state which was really deep depression that required hospitalisation...

Even if that is true, that does not obviate seeking evaluation and treatment, especially with the emphasis now on positive psychology. In other words, you don't need to feel distress to benefit from therapy. Also, maintenance therapy is an effective way to prevent relapses before troubling symptoms recur.

I really had a bad experience with therapists and doctors here. They didn't seem keen on treating me with psychotherapy, but rather with a cheeper and "less painful" therapy, which is the old, purely psychiatric, medication therapy. I didn't like these little pills for many reasons: first and more important, because they didn't seem to change my state of depression at all (I still had all the symptoms there) and second, because the pills made me so sleepy that cognitively, I could neither think, nor function, which made me feel even more down (circulus viciosus). I honestly don't think my sitution is that "serious" now so that I take medication for it, if I choose a kind of therapy, that would be only psychotherapy (and I would prefer CBT).

Thing is, I am always asking myself this question: "Is my state now really that serious that I require therapy?" This doubt of mine comes from my belief that "sanity" is not a dihotomic cathegory with sane-insane at its two parts. I think that we are all (in)sane at some degree. I can't even imagine how much "pathology" every single one of us is hiding somewhere deep inside, many times completely subconscious, and we never think something is wrong with us, not even imagine to go see a psychologist or psychiatrist! The (bad?) thing about me is that I am used to digging into my feelings and thoughts and am wandering (possibly because of the subject of my studies) whether they are okay... whether I need treatment... whether if this newscaster dies (she has cancer, btw) I will die also, etc, etc...

Many people for example, who have bipolar disorder, often refuse to see a psychiatrist when they are high because it feels *so* good, but the end result of that feeling is a downer so great that it devastes them.

I know about that... no mania wants to be treated, right? And they get ushered to see a therapist because their friends and family make them to! However, with bipolar disorder there is always a rather quick "sinking down to depression" after the manic phase. And, as they get ushered to see a therapist, their environment must have noticed something is terribly wrong, unheathy. For now, none of my friends noticed there is something wrong with me (and what is more strange, they have noticed my change from a depressed individual to a very down-to-earth woman who knows what she wants and where she is going in life... although, of course, I've never told them what is troubling me all the time, but that is the impression I am giving)... I don't know... You say I have courage, but I doubt it. If I had courage, I would have applied for psychotherapy, but there is a big part of my fears that it might make me step back. Therapy is not something that everyone can go through. I fear that this therapy might break my defences and make me regrade. As I am really too late with my studies (lost 2 years because of my illness) I can't allow myself to be even more late because of the therapy and possible regradation...

I don't know, am I exaggerating? And is there such thing as erotomania? I don't have delusions that she is in love with me. The fact that I am curious about her and search up the net in order to find as many information as possible might not be that strange of a thing when you have a crush on somebody (I know from the experiences of some of my friends and how apalled I was when I've heard how far they used to go when they had crushes on people). It might be strange that someone has a crush on somebody who he hasn't even met and saw only on TV, but what should we think then of loves at first sight?... etcetera, etcetera...

I know that no matter how psychically healthy or strong one is (I've said that my belief is that it's not a dichotomic cathegory), one can always find the reasons to feel even more healthy and stronger, but sometimes I am wandering... to what extent, till we have to talk about exaggeration?

You've guessed right, Sazs is my favourite...

Thank you all about your advice... I really appreciate all that you say, I have this bad habit that I have to question everything that people say and reconsider... till I make my decisions...

 

[Daniel E.]

I used to fall in love and have crushes before, but none managed to change my state which was really deep depression that required hospitalisation...

Generally speaking, just the passage of time could have caused your increase in stability and functioning rather than this ongoing crush/obsession. So it may be that you are rationalizing your symptoms (trying to see them as justified or even beneficial), which is something I am still guilty of doing myself.

Anyway, the general rule of thumb is, when in doubt, seek an evaluation. You really have nothing to lose and a lot to gain, IMHO. You can also learn more in therapy about the actual practice of clinical psychology than you ever would in class.

 

[Retired]

For those interested:

Definition of Erotomania
Erotomania: The false but persistent belief that one is loved by a person (often a famous or prominent person), or the pathologically obsessive pursuit of a disinterested object of love.

Erotomania can be a symptom of schizophrenia or other psychiatric disorders that are characterized by delusional symptoms.

Source: Medicine-net

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Erotomania or de Cl?rambault Syndrome
Marc H. Hollender, MD; Alfred S. Callahan III, MD
Arch Gen Psychiatry. 1975;32(12):1574-1576.

Abstract
? De Cl?rambault focused attention on a syndrome in which a woman has the delusional belief that a man, usually of higher social status and considerably older, is much in love with her. If the patient's romantic ideas shaped private fantasies instead of determined public behavior, there would be little cause for concern. The situation becomes critical when the fantasies are dramatized in real life with an unsuspecting and usually unwilling man cast in the role of the lover. The woman dwells on the feelings she ascribes to her "suitor."

Such delusional thinking, resulting from an ego defect and producing bizarre actions, may be shaped largely by feelings of being unloved or even unloveable; a narcissistic blow is overcome by a grandiose fantasy. Cases in which erotomania is prominent are usually diagnosed as paranoid state or paranoid schizophrenia.

Author Affiliations
From the Department of Psychiatry, Vanderbilt University School of Medicine, Nashville, Tenn.

Accepted for publication Feb 14, 1975.

Reprint requests to the Department of Psychiatry, Vanderbilt University School of Medicine, A-2215 Medical Center, Nashville, TN 37232 (Dr. Hollender).
Source
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Abstract
While de Cl?rambault's name has been linked to erotic delusions, he attempted to describe "pure" erotomania as a paradigm of a broader group of delusions. His own cases and a large number in the English and French literature seem to indicate that severe mood disorder, most likely bipolar affective disorder, is responsible for a portion of the erotomanic delusions. The concept of "les psychoses passionnelles" in the context of French psychiatry is reviewed.

Review attached complete article (Clerambault.pdf)

 

[amastie]

...I really had a bad experience with therapists and doctors here. They didn't seem keen on treating me with psychotherapy, but rather with a cheeper and "less painful" therapy, which is the old, purely psychiatric, medication therapy....

There are so many kinds of therpists. Mine is a psychiatrist who does counselling, others do forms of Cognitive Behaviour Therapy (CBT) or Dialectical Behaviour Therapy (DBT) - I think it's called - and again there is Positive Psychology. So many.. And many of those don't require you to be diagnosed as being either "sane" or "insane". Wherever we are on the spectrum of "sanity" or "normalcy" it doesn't make a difference if we need some kind of help. It's only that the help be effective! And that can take much looking for. As you say, your time is limited but perhaps you could put a certain amount of time aside each week to research, with a list of proposed questions as I suggested.

...The (bad?) thing about me is that I am used to digging into my feelings and thoughts ...

I don't see that as a problem unless the digging is wanted (at some level) wanting to be an end in itself, another way of escaping the pain of self-actualization. Having been a student myself for many years (not of psychology or related) I know how it is possible for the "looking" at an issue can supplant the actual working through it. That may not be what you are doing. I only raise it for your consideration.

.... You say I have courage, but I doubt it. If I had courage, I would have applied for psychotherapy, but there is a big part of my fears that it might make me step back. Therapy is not something that everyone can go through. I fear that this therapy might break my defences and make me regrade. ...

The kind of therapy where you confront your deepest fears is, indeed, the hardest, most painful thing one could ever do. It's not slur on your courage to find that entirely intimidating. But as for your fear that it might make you step back, I'm sorry but that sounds like you're afraid to let go of the fantasy that is keeping you afloat, so to speak (much like the hypmanic person who recognizes that she is not so ill as to require intensive therapy but on the other hand doesn't want to do *any* therapy because, on the face of it, the hypomanic state seems to keep her functioning at an optimal level. And hypmania often *does* keep one functtioning as a rule, achieving and enjoying life without the threat of such a crash as would occur if one was more manic. But that crash will still come if only because the *appearance" of a healthy lifestyle is just that, an appearance, when there is an unstable emotional state keeping it afloat. I think you may be confusing being made to "regrade" with being made to be "real" - and yes, that may well be, at first anyway, less comfortable - even very painful - before the healing occurs at that most fundamental level.

You acknowledge that you question where you are at emotionally. Questioning is never bad. I'd like to ask you however: do you really want an answer that leaves you without the feeling you presently have? If it is too hard to let go, then that's what it is for you. Some things are too hard to deal with. I respect that. I also fear for you that the consequences in the long term may be harder still.

That's my very real concern for you :support:

Take good care.

(I'm off to bed and will speak another time)

Good night,

amastie

 

[a_squared]

First of all, thank you TSOW for the information about erotomania!

Anyway, the general rule of thumb is, when in doubt, seek an evaluation.

That's what I am doing here, before facing a therapist who would kick me out of his office with the "Go home there's nothing wrong with you!!"

And many of those don't require you to be diagnosed as being either "sane" or "insane". Wherever we are on the spectrum of "sanity" or "normalcy" it doesn't make a difference if we need some kind of help.

I am really familiar with that. It's humanistic psychotherapy started by Victor Frankl. You don't have to be a diagnosed psychiatric patient, you might only want to be "healthier" in order to seek for psychotherapy. That is true

I don't see that as a problem unless the digging is wanted (at some level) wanting to be an end in itself, another way of escaping the pain of self-actualization.

Um, no, I am not seeing myself there. Before I used to be really scared and prefered to stay safely "tucked in", living in my past, scared of the future, seeing myself as not worthy of anything... now, I actually have more plans after my graduation... I am looking forward to it. I know what I am not, and what I want to be, and why I want to be that, and not something else. I can no more feel that persistent fear and anxiety I used to (of course I am scared at times, but who isn't?)...

do you really want an answer that leaves you without the feeling you presently have?

Is there such an answer? I agree that I don't want to let go of the feeling; it's natural that I connected the fact of "getting better" with my crush on her, for that is the point from where I have started to get up. It is, I guess, also natural that I am constantly asking myself whether that was really what made me get up, go on, live (which I couldn't even imagine when I was ill), and many other, I admit, less important things that were my changing; There was not just her, of course my successes with my studies made me continue what I have started and made me feel better, of course the attitude of my parents towards me had changed, of course I had evaluated my "new" behaviour in the eyes of the people around me and their behaviour towards me... there was a constellation of different factors... but she was the zero point. I needed to give it a name, I called it identification with her. I feel that need to understand myself, so if some things have a name, that makes me feel much better.

One who has experienced severe depression, can't possibly not appreciate the light that comes afterwards. I may have exaggerated in appreciating it. And that may be the reason why I am clinging so tightly to it and why I am stubbornly refusing to let go.

Nighty night

 

[amastie]

...Um, no, I am not seeing myself there.
...

You speak with such self-awareness that I feel arrogant for having questioned you in the way that I did. I'm sorry.

... now, I actually have more plans after my graduation... I am looking forward to it. I know what I am not, and what I want to be, and why I want to be that, and not something else. I can no more feel that persistent fear and anxiety I used to (of course I am scared at times, but who isn't?)...

Yes, of course.

... I agree that I don't want to let go of the feeling; it's natural that I connected the fact of "getting better" with my crush on her, for that is the point from where I have started to get up. ...... I needed to give it a name, I called it identification with her. I feel that need to understand myself, so if some things have a name, that makes me feel much better.....

I can understand that.

.....One who has experienced severe depression, can't possibly not appreciate the light that comes afterwards. I may have exaggerated in appreciating it. And that may be the reason why I am clinging so tightly to it and why I am stubbornly refusing to let go....

I would think that exaggeration isn't possible under the circumstances, so great must be the relief when light shines through.

I imagine that while it gives you what you need, you will hold on to it. It seems to be so conscious a choice to hold on, that maybe it's just a matter of time till you feel ok enough to let it go.

I want only happiness and peace for you :hug:

amastie

 

[a_squared]

Thank you amastie... I appreciate all questioning, it helps us see things from another point of view... Thank you for your interest and your time