More threads by David Baxter PhD

David Baxter PhD

Late Founder
Not All Drugs Are the Same After All
By LESLEY ALDERMAN, New York Times
December 19, 2009

Let me start by saying I?m a fan of generic drugs. They save Americans billions of dollars each year and give us access to wonderful drugs at affordable prices. I?ve recommended generics in this column many times and use them myself when possible.

But there is a gnawing concern among some doctors and researchers that certain prescription generic drugs may not work as well as their brand-name counterparts. The problem is not pervasive, but it?s something consumers should be aware of ? especially now that more insurers insist that patients take generic medications when they are available.

Let me also prepare the groundwork for what I hope will be full and frank reader comments, by acknowledging that this issue is controversial.

Joe Graedon, who has been writing about pharmaceuticals for three decades and runs a consumer advocacy Web site, the People?s Pharmacy (peoplespharmacy.com), was 100 percent behind generics for many years.

?We were the country?s leading generic enthusiasts,? he told me recently. But over the last eight or nine years, Mr. Graedon began hearing about ?misadventures? from people who read his syndicated newspaper column, also called The People?s Pharmacy.

The stories were typically from patients who were switched from a brand name drug to a generic one and had side effects or found that their symptoms returned ? or even became worse than before they were medicated. Most recently Mr. Graedon has been hearing complaints on his Web site about generic forms of the antidepressant Wellbutrin XL 300 (known as Budeprion XL 300 in one generic form), the heart medicine Toprol XL (metoprolol succinate) and the antiseizure medicine Keppra (levetiracetam).

?Consumers are told generics are identical to brand name drugs, but that is clearly not always the case,? Mr. Graedon said.

Some specialists, particularly cardiologists and neurologists, are concerned about generic formulations of drugs in which a slight variation could have a serious effect on a patient?s health. The American Academy of Neurology has a position paper :acrobat: that says, in part, ?The A.A.N. opposes generic substitution of anticonvulsant drugs for the treatment of epilepsy without the attending physician?s approval.?

But insurers tend to argue otherwise. On Thursday, ExpressScripts, which handles drug insurance for big employers, put out a news release announcing results of a study it sponsored that found no difference in hospitalizations or emergency-room visits for people on brand-name epilepsy drugs compared with those taking generics.

The Food and Drug Administration, meanwhile, says it stands behind generic medications and its methods for approving them.

?We have not seen any scientific studies that show generics do not hold up as well as brand name drugs,? says Gary J. Buehler, director of the agency?s office of generic drugs. ?We believe the generic drugs we approve work in everyone.?

The American Medical Association concurs. A spokeswoman for the group told me in an e-mail message, ?The A.M.A. position is that as a whole generic drugs do work as well as name-brand drugs.?

Yet, after hundreds of consumers posted messages about problems with the generic drug Budeprion XL 300 on the People?s Pharmacy Web site, Mr. Graedon worked with an independent laboratory, ConsumerLab.com, to test the drug, which in other generic versions is typically known as bupropion.

The lab found that Budeprion XL 300 released the active drug at a different rate than the brand name Wellbutrin XL 300. Mr. Graedon and the lab conjecture that the different dissolution rates might be to blame for the reported side effects and lower effectiveness of Budeprion.

But Mr. Buehler at the FDA explained to me that over the course of 24 hours a patient ends up with the same amount of the drug in the bloodstream, so there should be no reason for a variation in effectiveness. ?We remain puzzled,? he said.

The maker of Budeprion XL 300, Teva Pharmaceutical Industries, recently announced that it would conduct a clinical trial comparing its product against the original, Wellbutrin XL.

A Teva spokeswoman said in an e-mail message that the company was working with the FDA on a study ?specifically designed to answer the questions raised following the recent anecdotal commentary on generic budeprion.?

?We believe the study and the resulting data will provide further scientific support for the product?s bioequivalence to the innovator drug,? she said.

To parse that statement ? or at least understand ?bioequivalence? ? it is worth taking a step back to consider what a generic drug is and how it gets approved.

When a name-brand drug?s patent expires, other manufacturers are generally free to create their own version of that product. If a drug is popular, a dozen or more companies may rush in to create a copy of it.

According to FDA rules, the new generic version must ?have the same active ingredient, strength and dosage form? as the brand name or reference product.

A generic medication must also be bioequivalent to the brand name drug, meaning that it must ?be shown to give blood levels that are very similar to? the brand name product, according to a fact sheet on the FDA?s web site. Generally, the only test that a maker of a generic medication must perform to receive FDA approval is one that establishes the ?bioequivalence? of the product. This test is done on healthy volunteers and compares the blood levels of the reference drug to the generic one.

According to Mr. Buehler of the FDA, to be considered bioequivalent, the generic drug must reach a blood serum level that is 80 to 125 percent of what the reference product achieves. But Mr. Buehler said that in reality the spread was not nearly that large. He noted that the FDA conducted a large study and found that the average difference in absorption into the body between a generic and brand name drug was only 3.5 percent.

Some specialists, though, worry that the allowable range for bioequivalence is too wide, especially for patients who are taking medication to control problems like arrhythmias or seizures.

If a patient with the heart arrhythmia known as atrial fibrillation who also has risk markers for stroke gets a blood thinner for which the levels are too low, ?there is risk for stroke, and if the levels are too high it could result in bleeding,? says James A. Reiffel, a cardiologist and professor of clinical medicine at Columbia.

Neurologists who treat epilepsy have similar concerns. Two studies published last year in the journal Neurology found that patients who switched from a brand-name product to a generic one had more seizures or higher hospitalization rates.

?For many drugs, generics are just fine,? said Kimford Meador, a professor of neurology at Emory University.

?But when you?re taking a seizure medication, the therapeutic window is narrow,? Dr. Meador said. ?If the absorption of the drug is slightly different between brand and generic or between generics, then the patient could have a seizure, and that seizure could lead to serious injury or perhaps even death.?

The problem is not just in changing from a name-brand drug to a generic, Dr. Meador said, but also switching from generic to generic. And the patient may not even know the change is happening.

When patients are on maintenance medication for which a generic is available, they might be given a different version of the generic drug when refilling their prescriptions. A pharmacy might stock one generic for a few months, and then switch to another a few months later, if the store is offered a better deal on it.

A pharmacist is not required to notify the patient of the change, although some choose to do so.

So for a few months you might receive a drug that was on the low side in the bioequivalence test, and then be switched to one on the high side of the test.

Stephanie Ford, 29, who spoke on condition that she not be otherwise identified, had been taking Lamictal to control her bipolar disorder. When a generic version came out two years ago, her insurer switched her to it.

Ms. Ford found that the generic drug, lamotrigine, worked just as well as the name brand and cost her just $10 a month instead of the $45 copayment she had been spending on the brand name. (For a person without insurance, Lamictal can cost about $300 a month, depending on the dosage.)

But when her insurer then urged her to order her medication by mail, she received another generic version of Lamictal and her symptoms returned.

?After about a week,? she wrote in an e-mail message, ?I noticed a difference in my emotional state (and nothing changed in my life) and by a week and a half, I had digressed to the state I had been before being on medication.?

Ms. Ford has found a local pharmacy that carries the original generic. She now buys the medication directly from that store. Because her insurer charges her a $5 penalty for not using mail order, her copayment is now $15.

She says her condition has once again stabilized.
 

Retired

Member
One of the best overview articles I have read on the topic providing a balanced perspective.

For people who are concerened about cost, generics offer a sensible option to continue treatment as oposed to abandoning treatment.

If a decrease in effectiveness or tolerability is noticed, a conversation with the prescriber or pharmacist can usually solve the problem by finding a different manufacturer, adjusting the dosage or changing the compound to a different prescription.

For people who are not concerend about cost, the doctor should be asked to prescribe by brand, to indicate "no substitution" on the prescription and to inform the pharmacist that brand name is preferred.

A good practice for everyone is to ask the pharmacist to write the actual expiry date of the medication as indicated by the manufactureron your prescription label.

Do not accept prescriptions that expire before your prescription supply expires and insist on the manufacturer's expiry date and not the phamacy's arbitrary expiry date.

This latter practice is used by some pharmacy chains to try to get people to dispose of unused prescriptions early and renew them earlier than necessary.
 

NicNak

Resident Canuck
Administrator
The problem is not just in changing from a name-brand drug to a generic, Dr. Meador said, but also switching from generic to generic. And the patient may not even know the change is happening.

When patients are on maintenance medication for which a generic is available, they might be given a different version of the generic drug when refilling their prescriptions. A pharmacy might stock one generic for a few months, and then switch to another a few months later, if the store is offered a better deal on it.

A pharmacist is not required to notify the patient of the change, although some choose to do so.

So for a few months you might receive a drug that was on the low side in the bioequivalence test, and then be switched to one on the high side of the test.

Stephanie Ford, 29, who spoke on condition that she not be otherwise identified, had been taking Lamictal to control her bipolar disorder. When a generic version came out two years ago, her insurer switched her to it.

Ms. Ford found that the generic drug, lamotrigine, worked just as well as the name brand and cost her just $10 a month instead of the $45 copayment she had been spending on the brand name. (For a person without insurance, Lamictal can cost about $300 a month, depending on the dosage.)

But when her insurer then urged her to order her medication by mail, she received another generic version of Lamictal and her symptoms returned.

“After about a week,” she wrote in an e-mail message, “I noticed a difference in my emotional state (and nothing changed in my life) and by a week and a half, I had digressed to the state I had been before being on medication.”

This exact thing happened to me when switched from one generic to another. The pharmacist did tell me about the generic switch but assured me the molectural structure of the medications was identical and there would be no problem.

My symptoms started to come back, although I didn't have any discontinue effects (which I found odd too). I went to my doctor and told her I felt awful and didn't understand why. She asked when I first noticed the change and it was about three weeks prior. There had been no changes happening in my life, in fact things were good. I suddenly remembered about the generic to generic switch and from then on, she prescribed me name brand only.

I am not sure if it is ok to say the name of the generic supplier names and the medication name, so I do not say.
 

Banned

Banned
Member
I never get generics. I have to pay more, but I'm willing to do so for my own peace of mind. My insurance will pay what they would pay for the generic, and anything above that is my responsibility.
 

Retired

Member
NicNak said:
the molecular structure of the medications was identical

Yes, and it will always be, which is what it is supposed to be; however, the differences in bioavailability come from the sources of the base products, their quality, the manufacturing technique, inert ingredients used for binding, color etc. and the quality control within the manufacturing plant.

The brand name manufacturers maintain the highest standards of consistency, while many generic manufacturers do as well, unfortunately there are less reliable generic manufacturers.

You would be better advised to ask a few questions and use a generic made by a major generic manufacturer, such as Apo Drugs as one example.
 

Banned

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I once watched a documentary on Dateline or one of those shows, about the incidence of creating false drugs (this documentary focused on a manufacturer in China).

TSOW, are you able to expound on this further, and how these sugar pills make it to the pharmacy shelves and if there is anything that consumers can do to be more aware? Or is it a matter of - if your symptoms suddenly change contact your physician? I wonder how often the these "fake drugs" are identified as the source of a problem?
 

NicNak

Resident Canuck
Administrator
You would be better advised to ask a few questions and use a generic made by a major generic manufacturer, such as Apo Drugs as one example.

The generic that I had no problem on, was Novapharm. I have also heard good of Apo Drugs too from working at the pharmacy.

The one they changed me too, I had not heard of, it was not Nova nor Apo. Being I had not worked in the pharmacy for a long time, so I thought maybe it was still ok, but it was not.

Thanks for all the information Steve, it is very helpful. I had not realized how in depth it all was. But you cleared things up. I really appreciate your replies to help us out :2thumbs:
 

Retired

Member
I did not see the Dateline episode you're referring to.

Were they reporting that pharmacies in the U.S. were selling fake drugs?

I am not familiar with the retail pharmacy business in the U.S. at this time, but will look into it.

However I do know the pharmacy business in Canada, and the likelihood of this happening in Canada is very slim unless the pharmacist is corrupt and is importing fake drugs independently. Retail pharmacies in Canada buy their supplies from regulated wholesalers or directly from the manufacturer. The Colleges of Pharmacy in each Province monitor and regulate their licensed pharmacists closely along with periodic checks by government regulatory agencies.

Historically there have been precious few corrupt pharmacists, and the likelihood of buying fake drugs in Canada at a retail pharmacy is virtually impossible.

I would expect the same type of regulation in the U.S. and will be speaking to a friend who is a pharmacist in the U.S. to gain further insights.

I have no first hand experience with online pharmacy purchases, so hopefully members who may have bought prescriptions online might comment further.
 

David Baxter PhD

Late Founder
Historically there have been precious few corrupt pharmacists, and the likelihood of buying fake drugs in Canada at a retail pharmacy is virtually impossible.

Given that major chains like Shopper's Drug Mart are rapidly taking over the market from independent pharmacies, I would guess that this is becoming even more uncommon.
 

NicNak

Resident Canuck
Administrator
Given that major chains like Shopper's Drug Mart are rapidly taking over the market from independent pharmacies, I would guess that this is becoming even more uncommon.

That is a good point Dr Baxter. As well a lot of big grocery store chains are now putting in pharmacys too and places like Walmart.
 

Retired

Member
David Baxter said:
major chains like Shopper's Drug Mart are rapidly taking over the market from independent pharmacies

In some ways it's unfortunate because chains cannot replace the personal service of an independent pharmacist.

Chains employ several pharmacists who work shifts and customers are usually greeted by pharmacy technicians whose job it is to count the pills and collect payment.

I have been fortunate to find one of the last independent pharmacists in our community, who recognizes my voice when I call, remembers who I am and my needs and best of all is technically up to date.

In fact this man has done so well with his outstanding service that he has recently opened a second store....perhas to become a chain...employing pharmacists on shifts....pharmacy technicians.....:rolleyes:

At least for now, he gives us a really cool calendar at this time of year..:2thumbs:
 

David Baxter PhD

Late Founder
Oh yes, I'm not saying losing the independents is necessarily a good thing. The pluses are that for a while at least the prices may be lower, partly because of bulk buying and partly to undercut the independents. For now.

I'm merely pointing out that in a very competitive marketplace the larger chains would be less likely to risk using illegal imports and their employees would have no incentive to do so.
 

Banned

Banned
Member
I wish I could rememeber the name of the documentary - it was several years ago. It was a mom/pop operation that was extremely large scale, and they sold sugar pills that look identical to the real thing to North America. I forget who, in North America, they sold to - whether it was independent pharmacists or other distribution companies. I wish I had more info because I realize this isn't very helpful.

To the other point - I was at the pharmacy the other day - a large, supermarket pharmacy, and was absolutely shocked when the pharmacist greeted me by name and said he had my prescription ready. I've only been on meds a few months (off and on) and I got service that I would not expect from this environment.

There's hope yet that customer service is not dead.
 

Retired

Member
I forget who, in North America, they sold to - whether it was independent pharmacists or other distribution companies

It would be interesting to know if the documentary uncovered some scandal within retail operations, but knowing the system as I do, somewhat, if retail operations were involved, it would have made the mainstream news.

Remember the pharmacist who was convicted of diluting cancer treatment medication?

The story, most likely, uncovered some internet operation that sold placebos made to look like brand name drugs directly to consumers.

Retail pharmacies buy their supplies either directly from the manufacturer or from a limited number of known and reputable wholesalers. The wholesalers buy directly from manufacturers maintaining the integrity of the supply chain.
 

Banned

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Member
No, it wasn't in retail operations.

I remember it was a family-based business in China that got busted. It's possible they were operating as a direct supplier to the consumer.

I'm going to do some digging and see what I can find. It was absolutely horrifying to see this large-scale operation and the impact they had on people's health. And the family didn't care that people were dying because they were getting placebos when in fact they thought they were getting the real deal.

Ok...I'm going on a treasure hunt, and will let you know if I can find anything that points to the original information.
 

Retired

Member
Thank you for that additional information, Persona.

I should add, however that chain pharmacies sometimes have shortcomings, and these are usually addressed as son as they are discovered.

CVS was recently fined for systematically stocking and selling outdated over the counter medications on their shelves, and in Canada Jean Coutu was reprimanded for selling physicians' samples.

However when it comes to prescription medications, there have been few reported incidents of major transgressions.
 

Banned

Banned
Member
Thank you for sharing your knowledge, TSOW. I looked and looked but can't find any info on this subject...or at least the info I was looking for, so I'll leave it for now.

Thanks again for your help.
 
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