Information needed

[Rosa]

I need some information here. I think I'm getting close to the reason I'm so suicuidal at times and why I cut.  For a long time now I've believed them to be associated with certain memories I have of abuse. I have vivid memories at times and I just can't seem to stop them.  Without getting into details it has to do with my mother and brother and them raping me and hurting me with things.  Anyhow some of you know I recently drew pictures of this abuse and gave them to my doctor.  I freaked out intitially but was able to calm down some after coming here.  The next day though it got worse.  I was bombarded with thoughts that I should hurt/kill myself... I thought... I needed to be punished.

These thoughts and thoughts like them bombarded me.  The thing is they are sooooo fast-its one right after the other after another.  I try fighting back with facts like it was ok to tell my doctor, that he already knew-I told him before, but somehow showing him those pictures was telling on a whole new level.  After two days of almost non-stop fighting with these thoughts I began cutting...i had to do something to make this stop.  I did call my doctor and he ended up tripplling the dosage of Abililfy and increasing the Klonopin as well.  Finally I was able to calm down.  Since then my mind has completely stopped-a good thing, I am continuing on the higher dosage.  I can't remember things ever being so calm in my head. Its been the best two days I can remember. 

There is something I have never told my doctor...its not that I've hid it but not being able to remember a very important part of it makes me reluctant to say anything.  When I was removed from my father, my mother who had left a year before and who said on the police report 'futhermore the mother is in Ohio and refuses to return'-words I will never forget. My father was charged with child abuse and neglect. But suddenly one day my mother appeared at the Receiving Home (the place they put kids when they are in protective custody).  I should back up some and say she was in the first court which took place within 72 hours of my removal.  But one day I was at the Receiving home and she barged in...you don't know my mother, she was determined to see me.  I can remember her yelling at the staff and insisting on seeing me alone...that I was her kid and they couldn't do anything about that and so on.... well, we ended up visiting in a room with staff across the room-the wouldn't allow for a non-supervised visit...but I was sitting on the couch with my mother.  Its hard to belive but I was soooo happy to see her...honestly I don't know how much of what was going on was really understood by me, I just wanted to go home.....anyhow she said something and its that something I can't remember and gave me some money.   I left then knowing it was over.  I knew I had to take the money to buy sleeping pills to kill myself.  I'll never forget that sense of doom as I walked down the hall to return to my room.  I  did in fact end up buying the sleeping pills and took all of them. I also slashed my wrists. I knew how important it was to not go to court.  That did'nt work.  I was found, taken to the hospital and my stomach pumped.  The reason I'm writing all this is it possible that these messages are planted somehow in my head and I don't know it?  Its a terriable thing to say but I'm thinking she wanted me dead to avoid any possiblity of exposing her. Also why are the suicuidal thoughts soooo fast??? Its like they wear me down to the point where I'm too weak to fight back anymore. I do plan on sharing this with my doctor but would really like to get some feedback here.
Thanks
Rosa

 

[Rosa]

also, how is it I can remember soooo much from that day but I can't remember her words that moment she gave me the money? I remember only like a darkness.
Rosa
ps. this was the second to last time I saw my mother. The last time was on my 13th birthday when I asked to go live with her and she said everything was much better without me around. I do remember those words. Don't feel bad, I now know this was the best thing she could have said to me. My life would have been a disaster if she actually decided to take me. Its true, kids, no matter how bad home life is, they always want to return. Its all I knew.

 

[Rosa]

I need to add one more thing,,,when I speak of racing thoughts I am saying the thoughts come too fast. But its not at all like I'm in an elevated state-I did some seaching and bi-polar comes up but there is nothing bi-polar about me-I don't have any highs..just normal and depressed.
Thanks
Rosa

 

[foghlaim]

The thing is they are sooooo fast-its one right after the other after another. .

rosa my thoughts go like this a lot.. not always on suicide.. a lot of diff stuff at the same time.. and it does wreck my head.. sometimes i can just be aware and not pay any real attention to them.. other times i get lost in them.

another night i was lying in my bed, and it was like i was watching t.v.. only i was looking at bits of memories and again they were very fast.. like some-one kept flicking the channel.   i think it's a reflection of where i am right now.  i could be wrong and very open to other opinions.

i'm glad you rang your dr.   at least u got some peace for a while.. *s*

The reason I'm writing all this is it possible that these messages are planted somehow in my head and I don't know it?

it is possible.. it's called conditioning.. where the abuser conditions the child\person not to tell with threats etc..  again i am open to corection  on this.

i'm sorry your mother & brother were so very cruel to you, but u have made the right choice.. re: to reveal your abuse and get the help u are getting.

sorry if i no help to u... just listening really..

I hope i didn't say anything out of line.



also i want to say.. i'm having terrible trouble with my memory... but i think one day further down the road... it will come right.

 

[Rosa]

Thanks Notsure.  I wonder what causes our minds to race sometimes....hopefully Dr Baxter might have an answer??? Also how does one recondition your mind to not have these responses? Its hard too when so much has happened how do you know what to talk about when doctors/therapists take your history?  I don't want to sound paranoid and as is the case here, I can't remember exactly what she said to me.  Even with all the things that I do remember around this I feel bad assuming anything.  Why do I always give them the benefit of the doubt...when in doubt it must be my fault...something was wrong with me.
Rosa

 

[foghlaim]

how does one recondition your mind to not have these responses?

With the help of a good therapist, possibly one who has experience in the area of child abuse.

I know now that I cannot change the way i think without help.  i thought (still do at times) if i can learn to think one way(on my own)  then i should be able to unlearn the same way.  but i'm not able... on my own.  and i find this very hard to deal with.

something was wrong with me.

i think you learned to believe that something was wrong with you.       There wasn't!
again your therapist  and the other members here will be able to help when u experience the doubts.

how do you know what to talk about when doctors/therapists take your history

there are threads covering some ideas on this question.   i had asked the same thing.. i found the pages very helpful.
right now i can't remember where the threads are... have a look around and you should be able to find them tho.
also the others here are very helpful when it comes to the same question.


thanks for sharing with me \ us. 

 

[Rosa]

Thanks Notsure.  Fortunately, I do have a good doctor that I'm working with.  I think this last episode makes it clear I need to work with him on these issues before anything else.  This 'condisioning' (sp?) is really dangerous to my well being and I wasn't able to put identify it so well before.  I thought it was just me and something wrong with me, but I do think it was more. 
Be well my friend
Rosa

 

[healthbound]

Hi Guys,

Rosa - I can completely identify with much of your experiences here.

In fact, I am currently going through something similar I think (and ironically, I posted in "Suicide" a few days back too). I feel like I'm a few days "out of it" now, so I've been looking back and trying to understand a bit more about the way I tend to process things sometimes. (when I refer to being "in it" or "out of it" I'm referring to being back in the memories in the way of feelings, physical reactions, thoughts and memories - whether I'm able to make that direct connection or not).

Anyway, for me, I've been experiencing significant financial changes and thus was trying to "make myself ready" to go back to work. In addition to these stresses, I was talking a bit more about my past on this forum. Particularly (and ironically ) I talked about some of my past "street life" with you as well as talked about a past abusive relationship on another thread. At the same time I was sharing these things and experiencing a lack of finances, I was undergoing multiple physical exams by doctors I hadn't met before. And then to top it off, I saw a documentary on a female serial killer that had some remarkably similarities to my own mother. Aaaand, that was it...I checked out into never-never land for a few days.

All of this triggered vivid physical, emotional and mental flashbacks. Similar to you, I had lots of multiple "flashes" of various memories. I also noticed that I was thinking about self harm and suicide again on a daily basis. I also had lots of confusion and I felt extremely "spaced out" and couldn't seem to make a lot of sense about what was happening in the here-and-now.

So, that was kinda like "phase one" of my experience.

"Phase two" was where I began to feel a strange sense of intense guilt and self doubt. I felt panicked about what I had posted. I thought of my experience when I read that you had recently told your doctor about some of your memories. I've also seen other on the board "tell" something about their current or past experiences and the next day feel a sense guilt and confusion along with a sort of panicky desire to take back or quickly dismiss what they "told". We're adults, but it seems like part of us doesn't recognize that we are no longer in the grips of our perpetrators anymore and I wonder if that's where some of this comes from? After "telling" part of my past, sometimes I'll feel intense guilt and discredit my own ability to remember accurately. I begin to feel bad, wrong, crazy, stupid in addition to a strong sense that I some how made all this up. That's when the self destructive thoughts come back. It's like my mind thinks it's easier to turn all blame, anger and pain inward. That way I can continue to hold my parents (or whoever) in a good light and I don't have to deal with the guilt or the fact that they actually did what they did. I figure if the problem is simply me, then I can control that somehow and maybe I think that will make it all go away or something. Don't know.

I'm not sure if any of this feels like a fit for you, but I wanted to comment because I feel like I'm going through something similar.

It's bizarre, because a part of me knows I'm an intelligent, strong and capable woman. But then this other haunting side of me seems to literally take over. When the intelligent, strong and capable woman comes back she feels guilty, confused and "crazy". It's like I'm not sure how to amalgamate those two parts of me together.

One last thing...

how does one recondition your mind to not have these responses?

There is much research done on our ability to actually rewire neurons/cells to create different responses/thinking that we've experienced in the past. One way to do this is through cognitive and behavioural psychotherapy. Like, for me when I am exposed to triggerA, my body, mind and emotions immediately respond with responseA. If I can learn not to dissociate as much when I experience triggerA and therefore alter my body, mind and/or emotions everytime I am exposed to triggerA, I can "teach" myself to respond differently. Dr. B -- Please correct me if I'm wrong here???

That's pretty awesome. Challenging, but awesome.

Anyway, I was glad to see that you're posting about your experiences, Rosa. Glad because you are not going through thing alone and also glad because you gave me an opportunity to realize that other people ARE having similar experiences.

Yer in my thoughts

 

[Cat Dancer]

Phase two" was where I began to feel a strange sense of intense guilt and self doubt.? I felt panicked about what I had posted.? I thought of my experience when I read that you had recently told your doctor about some of your memories.? I've also seen other on the board "tell" something about their current or past experiences and the next day feel a sense guilt and confusion along with a sort of panicky desire to take back or quickly dismiss what they "told".

Wow. That sounds really familiar.

And this:

After "telling" part of my past, sometimes I'll feel intense guilt and discredit my own ability to remember accurately.? I begin to feel bad, wrong, crazy, stupid in addition to a strong sense that I some how made all this up.? That's when the self destructive thoughts come back.

and I feel this "don't deserve to talk," "don't deserve support," "don't deserve anything nice" feeling or thought or something. Not sure.

(Sorry for taking over about me.)

I hope you're feeling better about these things.

 

[healthbound]

Hey Janet!

I was thinking a bit about you too when I wrote that last response . I'm realizing that although we are all different, there does seem to be some similarities between those of us that have experience abuse. I actually find it very comforting to know that I'm not the only one experiencing these things.

 

[Rosa]

Thanks Heathbound and Janet. Yes we do have somethings very much in common. I will ask my doctor about the recondishing (sp?) but more important at this point is telling him whats going on and dealing with that first. It does appear that this is all caused by abuse. I still wonder why the fast thoughts??? I'm really not the fastest person around and yet my mind can just take off with these messages. Dr B can you shed any light on this?
It does help knowing others experience the same things though and that there is hope for change.
Rosa

 

[Cat Dancer]

I wonder if the racing thoughts are related to anxiety. I think depression and bipolar disorder can cause racing thoughts as well. Plus there are some medical conditions that can cause racing thoughts. I have experienced hyperthyroidism and had extreme racing thoughts with that.

I do feel so guilty about talking. And I have this thought that it isn't fair to only tell my side or tell how I see things. That the other people involved in my life should have a say. If that makes sense.

And Rosa, I do believe there is hope for change. And I'm so glad that you have a supportive doctor. It might be a good idea to ask him about the racing thoughts if you haven't already done so.

Really wishing the best for you.

 

[Lost]

Wow, I also identified with so much here.

Firstly - I think racing thoughts could very well be related to anxiety.? I get racing thoughts a lot of the time, and when going into sticky subjects, I start talking super-fast as well.? And I discovered the realisation with my therapisty that although I actually appear to be a very calm person, I am highly highly anxious.?

Second - reading Janet's post - I was going to quote the exact same things, and make the same comments!
Thank you so much Notsure for making me aware of this.? It's something I do too often.? I tell s1 or post sth highly personal and sensitive, and then find myself feeling terribly guilty and unsure whether I said it clearly in the right way, or whether in fact I'm remembering it correctly...? I never linked the 2 before, but now that you've said it - IT'S SOOOO TRUE.

The only strange thing is, I was never physically abused like so many people here, so I don't know why I'm suffering these symptoms.
I mean I was def. never sexually abused, but my father did used to loose his temper (mostly after arguing with my mother) and hit me, but I always assumed this is just normal child rearing.? And you could say that I wasn't the easiest child.? Apparently I was impossible.?

A part of me says, yes, you were abused, the way your father hit you definitely constitutes abuse, and then another part says, stop overdramatizing everything, loads of parents hit their kids, that's life etc...

I did wanna say more but gotta rush.

 

[Rosa]

Anxiety!!!! That makes perfect sense!!!!! Thank you soooo much!!!? Yes, I could see where that would cause my mind to race. I'm just not the fastest person around and yet to have such fast thoughts didn't make sinse but now it does alot more.? I will bring all this up with my doctor this week.? I've written about three pages of notes so as to not miss anything and help him to understand exactly whats going on inside my head.? He did triple the Abilify meds I take and that has helped ALOT.? In fact, my mind has never felt so clear-except for maybe some times while I'm on vacation driving someplace.? I can remember feeling this way on my last road trip, but it rarely if ever happens in real life with me.?
I really appreciate all the responses I've gotten. It really does help me to piece this all together.
In friendship
Rosa

 

[foghlaim]

i think it great sometimes that we find something that helps us to "click" something we were puzzled about.  i think it's referred to as the "Aha!!" moment.  *s*

i'm glad you found something to help on this *s*

 

[healthbound]

Hey Rosa,
Keep us posted about how the meeting with the doc goes Way to go, sistah.

 

[Rosa]

I especially like that you can keep going on a topic until you get that "aha" moment. Thanks to everyone as this actually makes sinse to me
Be well
Rosa

 

[Rosa]

Yes, I will let everyone know how my appt on Thursday goes. I'm really looking forward to sharing this with my doctor. Fortunately, hes a fast reader so he'll be able to go thru all my notes pretty quick.
In friendship
Rosa

 

[Lost]

And I'd like to add that I really respect and admire all of you who've been through so much, and are battling so valiantly to overcome...

When I read posts like Rosa's, notsure's, healthbound's etc.. I really think that I don't deserve to be messed up or talking about my past - my past is great relatively speaking...!

Especially reading Rosa's story - thinking about my own daughter and myself, I had tears in my eyes.  I can't imagine what that must have been like for you Rosa as the child...    <Hugs to you.>

One thing Rosa: to do with forgetting what your mother actually said.  I remember being in an awful situation, and then being completely SHOCKED by someone telling me something which really rocked my world.  It was so traumatic - i forced it out of my mind, and I don't remember what I was told any more - just the vague details. 

In general, I also find myself forgetting a lot of the stuff that went on in my past which really hurt me.  I think that us human beings can only cope with so much, and if it exceeds our limit, we have to find ways of forgetting those bad experiences.

 

[Rosa]

((((lost))))=safe hugs for Lost...Thanks for writing again. What you wrote about being shocked or too scared to remember actually makes since.
I did want to say, your experiences are just as important as anyone elses. This might sound really really weird, but for the most part (now some of the stuff was really too much) but for the most part I wouldn't really change my past. I wouldn't choose it but I am who I am because of it... Theres alot of things I need to work on because of the experiences I went though, but because of what I went through I know I'll be able to work thru those issues now.
I do want to say that issues regarding our mental health don't have to be a result of some horrable abuse...it can be part of that but it can also be a chemical imbalance of one kind or another. I don't think my condition is any less important than anything your going through. I had read that you father hit you and you thought that was normal. Well I'm learning just because something happens in our home doesn't mean its normal and for you, he shouldn't have hit you. All kids go through difficult periods but I just don't think you'd think it ok to hit your daughter and call that normal, right?
I got to run and go throw ball for my two furbabies who are waiting ever so impatiently.
In friendship
Rosa