Too Open?

[Ed]

I recently had my first appointment with a therapist (psychiatrist, actually) and it went rather well. I got to say whatever was on my mind, and afterwards, I felt "lighter," as if my mind was freer to think whatever I wanted to think, instead of being bogged down by protruding thoughts, uncertain feelings, etc. I suppose that therapy is a process that works a little like this:

First, you think of things to talk about. Second, you talk about them, and then, you feel better because you no longer have things to talk about. Heh.

Anyway, that's just my slant on it. By the way, I know that therapy has more to do with long-term unresolved issues or repressed memories, so it's not just about whatever comes to mind...

Question: is there such a thing as being too open with your therapist? Perhaps it's best if we keep some things to ourselves...?

 

[NicNak]

I would say the best thing to do is be completly open with a Psychologist, Psychiatrist, Therapist etc. Some days are easier than others, but I would say if you are feeling comfortable, let it flow.

I never keep anything from my Psychiatrist and Family Doctor. When symptoms change these things are also important to inform them of, even if we believe them to be trivial. They might not be.

That is the best way they can assist, properly diagnosis, and treat us.

:welcome: to Psychlinks Ed!

 

[Jazzey]

Welcome to Psychlinks Ed!

is there such a thing as being too open with your therapist? Perhaps it's best if we keep some things to ourselves...?

No, I don't think that you can be "too" open with your therapist. I think that without given them that insight into our thoughts, they won't be able to help us as effectively. I think, for me at least, I usually struggle a little with recognizing what I'm feeling to be able to share that. So my therapist helps me in recognizing what it is I'm feeling or not feeling. She helps me to push my thoughts a little deeper. If that makes sense?

I know that therapy has more to do with long-term unresolved issues or repressed memories, so it's not just about whatever comes to mind...

I don't know that I agree with this statement. This statement would assume that only people with deep seeded issues need the help of therapy. I think therapy can be helpful to a variety of issues. Helping us with grief, with stress management due to a current work situation etc...

I do think that it is a common misconception that therapy is only for the really deep-seeded issues...a misconception that I shared until not too long ago - "therapy was for other people, people with real problems". I'm pretty happy I got over that misconception.

 

[forgetmenot]

Hi Ed welcome to the forum. I too believe that you can never be too open with you therapist but in saying so sometimes it can be hard to open up with difficult issues.. It is in only being totally honest with your psychologist can he or she help you fully take care mary

 

[stargazer]

I tend to think that if you purposely exclude certain information from the therapist, it will impede or taint the process of therapy. If you feel good about your therapist, and you feel that this is a person you can trust, then the more open you can be, the better. Good luck to you, Ed, and welcome to PsychLinks.

 

[Ed]

Thanks for the welcome, though you may not feel the same way after I'm done asking my questions! (Half-joking) I do tend to have a lot of annoying questions. Hope that's OK and I'm sorry if I ever intrude, etc. Anyway, I'm in the same boat, so please don't take it in the wrong way. Some of these questions or ways of looking at things may appear silly to you... If so, please point it out to me.

So my therapist helps me in recognising what it is I'm feeling or not feeling. She helps me to push my thoughts a little deeper. If that makes sense?

Yes, sort of. I'm a tad strict with therapists, so I'll just come out and ask: How do you distinguish between a therapist making you see a truth vs. imposing their truth on you? For instance, the therapist might say that you might feel a certain way because of some past issue, but that might not really be the case. You may accept it, but only because it makes more sense than anything else. It's part of their training.

I don't know that I agree with this statement. This statement would assume that only people with deep seeded issues need the help of therapy. I think therapy can be helpful to a variety of issues. Helping us with grief, with stress management due to a current work situation etc...

Perhaps, but there's also such a thing as becoming too attached and having someone think for you and needing someone to help you resolve your issues through the above mentioned method (the insertion of "their" truth). Sure, a good therapist will make you question their assertions, etc... But the problem is that once it's out there, it's out there! ...And it becomes part of the process (therapy).

I do think that it is a common misconception that therapy is only for the really deep-seeded issues...a misconception that I shared until not too long ago - "therapy was for other people, people with real problems". I'm pretty happy I got over that misconception.

Well, in my experience, some things are better left forgotten. For instance, if you've completely forgotten an old childhood trauma, then what good would it do, if a therapist starts raking your brain and making you talk about it (in their excruciatingly passive-aggressive demeanour), etc? Who is to say that this "forgotten" memory still plays a part in your day to day life? If you deal with the cause (if it's a cause!), then will you really deal with the effect? These two aren't necessarily exclusive to each other.

I tend to think that if you purposely exclude certain information from the therapist, it will impede or taint the process of therapy. If you feel good about your therapist, and you feel that this is a person you can trust, then the more open you can be, the better.

I agree, but only up to a certain extend. Besides, I'm never going to be a 100% open with anyone. Though, if I was, then I doubt they would understand it in the same way that I understand it - or do not (whichever the case may be).

People go to a therapist and they give that therapist all their power. They now have something over you and they will use it because that's their way of making money and further educating themselves in their chosen fields (research projects, etc). It may actually help you, but did you know that while you're there, you're unravelling yourself in front of them... In a way, you're causing your own problems by thinking about such (and in a way: "inventing") problems and the therapist's job is to encourage you to do so.

I have one last question: how is therapy supposed to work? (I'm thinking about those people who have gone from one therapist to another and have wasted countless hours paying someone to help them face they problems to no avail.)

I'm a little frustrated because my major problems started when I started to see a therapist (after the ME). I wish I never bought into this whole thing, perhaps my life would have been better off. For one, my first suicide attempt was while I was on antidepressants (go figure!).

Now I'm really frustrated! Anyway...



Kind regards,
Ed

 

[Jazzey]

Thanks for the welcome, though you may not feel the same way after I'm done asking my questions! (Half-joking) I do tend to have a lot of annoying questions. Hope that's OK and I'm sorry if I ever intrude, etc. Anyway, I'm in the same boat, so please don't take it in the wrong way. Some of these questions or ways of looking at things may appear silly to you... If so, please point it out to me.

No worries Ed. Whatever questions you may have I'm willing to bet other members will have at some point too. It doesn't mean that we'll necessarily know all the answers, but we can share in our experiences.

Perhaps, but there's also such a thing as becoming too attached and having someone think for you and needing someone to help you resolve your issues through the above mentioned method (the insertion of "their" truth). Sure, a good therapist will make you question their assertions, etc... But the problem is that once it's out there, it's out there! ...And it becomes part of the process (therapy).

Trust me - no one will ever do my thinking for me. And I get the distinct impression that no one will ever think for you either.

Also, I really believe that the concept of "truths" is subjective - ie: we're talking about opinions here.

In all honesty, my psychologist has never tried to impose an opinion in my thinking. She has expressed an opinion or two with which I may have disagreed; this usually results in a discussion with her about where I'm coming from versus where she's coming from. But she's never imposed her opinions on me. It truly is a dialogue and, one in which she really appreciates my participation and reflexion. This is after all how she garners insight into me. And while I may rely on her to shine the light on a healthier mental path, that I trust her instincts on therapy, my path through therapy is really collaborative. First and foremost, I go to her because I recognize that she's the expert - I'm the patient. If I didn't want to hear her opinion, I'd quit therapy. But I'm also no good to her as a patient if I start scrutinizing what I'm sharing and start to censor my thoughts for her. And in the end, that would only hurt my recovery with my own issues.

Which brings me to this quote:

Yes, sort of. I'm a tad strict with therapists, so I'll just come out and ask: How do you distinguish between a therapist making you see a truth vs. imposing their truth on you? For instance, the therapist might say that you might feel a certain way because of some past issue, but that might not really be the case. You may accept it, but only because it makes more sense than anything else. It's part of their training.

They're the expert. I have absolutely no medical background, no psychology background. And while I have disagreed with her sometimes, I'll tell you right now that in the long haul, she's always been right - where I'm concerned. But I can also tell you that she wasn't "imposing" a truth. Rather, she was giving me her diagnosis / her opinion. And while I initially may have disagreed with her, she eventually, through therapy, was able to show me the meaning behind the opinion she initially may have expressed. Very often what I've discovered is that I listened to her opinion without appreciating really what she was telling me. I thought I did. But once we delved a little deeper in therapy, I recognized that I hadn't fully appreciated what she was trying to relay to me at that particular time.

Well, in my experience, some things are better left forgotten. For instance, if you've completely forgotten an old childhood trauma, then what good would it do, if a therapist starts raking your brain and making you talk about it (in their excruciatingly passive-aggressive demeanour), etc? Who is to say that this "forgotten" memory still plays a part in your day to day life? If you deal with the cause (if it's a cause!), then will you really deal with the effect? These two aren't necessarily exclusive to each other.

Boy would I love to agree with you on this statement (and I would have a few months ago btw). So I'll give you a couple of examples here:

1) Take a person who's been victimized in his/her youth. Over the course of his/her life, he/she 'moves on', leaves the past in the past - better to be forgotten.

And over the course of this same life, he/she starts seeing the same patterns coming up time and time again. He/she is re-victimized several times, in the same patterns. Is this person really better off not addressing those very patterns that keep revisiting them? Are they to merely accept that this is "who they are" and move past each incident hoping not to be too traumatized by the next one?

2) A simpler example: A person keeps gaining and losing employment all the time. They don't know why. He/she recognizes a pattern in their life - they gain the employment only to lose it within a few months. Are they to simply accept that this pattern exists in their lives without the benefit of really understanding why that pattern is there? Is this something to be 'forgotten' in the hopes that the next employment opportunity will actually stick?

All this to say to you that the scenarios are complex. When you post as you do Ed, I can't help but think that therapy is a complex process which is contingent on a panoplea of factors. Each person is different and each person will have issues that are really personal to them. I don't think that a psychologist or psychiatrist will ever deal with 2 patients who, while maybe diagnosed broadly under the same umbrella, will be exposed to the same therapy...

But again, none of this is relevant if the patient chooses to censor or modify his/her responses to the therapist. The therapist can only assess a patient on the information provided...And btw, my psychologist is the only person with whom I'm 100% honest - all the time and about everything. Even the stuff that I really wish I didn't have to share with her- otherwise, why am I paying her the rates that I am....

 

[Ed]

Whoa! I was thinking about what I wrote and decided that it wasn't helping anyone, so I logged on to post: "nevermind" and that's when I saw your huge post! Heh. Let me read it...

 

[Jazzey]

:blush: sorry - you got me thinking... While you're here - what does "ME" stand for?

 

[Ed]

What can I say, besides, I see your point! I think about this in two ways, in that, I agree with what you wrote, but I also have a different way of thinking about it - the problem is that this way of thinking about it might be delusional, whereas, what you're saying is widely accepted to be true. I accept what you wrote - when I return to earth (!) - but I also have this nagging feeling that my "delusions" are true, but how can I know for certain? After all, this disease is a delusional disorder, etc... It seems that they've got me backed up into a tight corner!

 

[Jazzey]

And for the record Ed, I don't think any one of us hasn't experienced the same frustration or fears that you've expressed here ...Whether delusional or not...

 

[Ed]

I started thinking that my issues are self-made and self-inflicted, and so, therapy would intensify that effect by making them more real and leaving me more exposed. So, in the end, I'd have recreated these issues, and then, dealt with it through the aid of a therapist. You see, it seems like this never-ending cycle? The problems are always going to be there OR there are always going to be problems that we can manifest by thinking about them and having flashbacks and trying to change the unchangeable (or is it really unchangeable? Perhaps it's not even there to begin with!). In the end, it seems like I'm constantly recreating the same monster over and over again, and so, I'm thinking that perhaps I should just let it go and stop with this whole therapy thing... Perhaps if I follow my instincts and not think about my issues, then they'll disappear and I'll no longer have any issues to deal with. Ahh... A cure for schizophrenia? That'll give them a run for their money!

Trust me - no one will ever do my thinking for me. And I get the distinct impression that no one will ever think for you either.

They have. It's ingrained in all of us.

Also, I really believe that the concept of "truths" is subjective - ie: we're talking about opinions here.

What do you mean? By "truths," I meant: "that which is true." Whether subjective or not, that which is true, is true.

In all honesty, my psychologist has never tried to impose an opinion in my thinking.

What do you think going to a psychologist in the first place is? You've already bought into that set up before you even had a chance to step into his/her office.

And in the end, that would only hurt my recovery with my own issues.

You see, you bought into it... and so did I!

They're the expert. I have absolutely no medical background, no psychology background.

That's part of the trick. IF it is a trick.

And while I have disagreed with her sometimes, I'll tell you right now that in the long haul, she's always been right - where I'm concerned. But I can also tell you that she wasn't "imposing" a truth. Rather, she was giving me her diagnosis / her opinion. And while I initially may have disagreed with her, she eventually, through therapy, was able to show me the meaning behind the opinion she initially may have expressed. Very often what I've discovered is that I listened to her opinion without appreciating really what she was telling me. I thought I did. But once we delved a little deeper in therapy, I recognised that I hadn't fully appreciated what she was trying to relay to me at that particular time.

They're trained in this. Like I said, if you answer their questions and share your most personal thoughts with them, then, you give them the power and they'll be able to come up with the most insightful stories based on their analysis of what you've told them.

1) Take a person who's been victimised in his/her youth. Over the course of his/her life, he/she 'moves on', leaves the past in the past - better to be forgotten

I started to suspect that the past doesn't affect us in the way that they make us think it affects us.

And over the course of this same life, he/she starts seeing the same patterns coming up time and time again. He/she is re-victimised several times, in the same patterns. Is this person really better off not addressing those very patterns that keep revisiting them? Are they to merely accept that this is "who they are" and move past each incident hoping not to be too traumatised by the next one?

That's called: "buying into it." It's not your story, it's theirs.

2) A simpler example: A person keeps gaining and losing employment all the time. They don't know why. He/she recognises a pattern in their life - they gain the employment only to lose it within a few months. Are they to simply accept that this pattern exists in their lives without the benefit of really understanding why that pattern is there? Is this something to be 'forgotten' in the hopes that the next employment opportunity will actually stick?

No, but it doesn't need several months of therapy to figure it out. If someone doesn't like their job, then they should change it.

All this to say to you that the scenarios are complex. When you post as you do Ed, I can't help but think that therapy is a complex process which is contingent on a panoplea of factors. Each person is different and each person will have issues that are really personal to them. I don't think that a psychologist or psychiatrist will ever deal with 2 patients who, while maybe diagnosed broadly under the same umbrella, will be exposed to the same therapy...

What do you mean?

But again, none of this is relevant if the patient chooses to censor or modify his/her responses to the therapist. The therapist can only assess a patient on the information provided...And btw, my psychologist is the only person with whom I'm 100% honest - all the time and about everything. Even the stuff that I really wish I didn't have to share with her- otherwise, why am I paying her the rates that I am....

...Because you bought into it?

---------- Post added later and automatically merged ----------

ME - Mental Evaluation

---------- Post added later and automatically merged ----------

Please don't take any of that the wrong way. Just assume that I'm out of my mind (which isn't too far from the truth). I'd like to see where this goes...

Be back tomorrow. Bye!

 

[Jazzey]

Hmmm...I don't think I "bought into" anything Ed. I'm just someone trying to sort myself out as best I can. A few months ago (7 to be exact) I was convinced that my problems were problems I could and would resolve on my own. But then something happened which made me appreciate that I was always dipping into the same patterns - resulting in my always turning to thoughts of suicide. So I decided to give therapy a try.

My doctor had already diagnosed me with major depression (a few times over the past 10 years or so). And up until August, I firmly believed that I would sort myself out without medications and without therapy. I just got tired Ed...That's my explanation.

Is this "buying into" it - yes, if it means that I believe in the mental health experts who are out there. But, it also took me 3 different therapists before I found one with whom I felt completely at ease and who's assessment I trusted.

I don't think there are any tricks here Ed. Like you, I have moments where I'm wondering if therapy will ever help me the way that I need to be helped. But I keep going because I do see some subtle changes in how I feel. It is a process and I remind myself frequently that it will take time.

What do I mean when I say that therapy is a complex process? I'll give you an example that's personal to me - I went into therapy in August to deal with having been a victim - at least I thought that was my only current issue. Then, and with the help of therapy, I started to appreciate just how depressed I was, and how depressed I'd been for a long time. This depression was part and parcel of my victimization - because I didn't have it in me to defend myself anymore...The fact that I was depressed wasn't necessarily news to me - I had all of the physical and mental symptoms and I knew they were there - I just thought I could move past them on my own. I am now also in therapy for post traumatic stress disorder and to help me find coping mechanisms for my specific symptoms (in my case, vivid flashbacks, dissociation and nightmares which hinder my sleep).

Now take another patient seeing a therapist for victimization - maybe they would only be there to deal specifically with that victimization, to deal with the trauma of victimization. Maybe they wouldn't also have to deal with depression or PTSD...

That's what I mean - we're all different and even though we may be diagnosed similarly, our issues will always be personal to us because of our backgrounds, our genetic makeup and the way we were raised. Does this make more sense?

No two patients in therapy will (nor should) receive the exact same therapy, in my opinion.

What is your diagnosis Ed, if you don't mind my asking? And no, I am genuinely not offended by anything you've posted here...As I said before, you're expressing thoughts that I think a few of us have had or at least wondered about. But I do value mental health and I think sometimes we just can't do it on our own... Have a good night Ed and we'll see you tomorrow.

 

[Atlantean]

<snip>
Question: is there such a thing as being too open with your therapist? Perhaps it's best if we keep some things to ourselves...?

To get the best results and be able to help you as much as they can, your psychiatrist needs to know everything that relates to your issues or problems, including significant events in your life that have impacted you.

I think everyone probably keeps secrets from their therapists, but to answer you question, you shouldnt.

 

[Halo]

Ed,

I agree with everything that Jazzey has said so far and I truly hope that you will accept the help that is being offered to you by your therapist.

Take care

 

[Budoaiki]

Ed,
You definitely brought up a lot of good questions about therapy that I have thought and still do think about when the topic comes to mind. I believe that the truth itself is not subjective but it's effects and therefore our perspective of it is and that is where therapy comes into play.

From our first breath we learn strategies to survive, to handle adversity and how to get the things we need and want out of life. Each interaction is a lesson in itself so we develop behavioral patterns to learn and adapt in order to survive. These behavioral patterns become a part of who we are and play a part in how we interact with the world through our morality and awareness which effects our prosperity and peace of mind.

Sometimes there are patterns we ignore or are simply unaware of that have significant effects in everyday life and although it's easy to say; "I don't want to deal with this or that right now" and although it doesn't immediately bother us to ignore something that is stressful, it does have an effect especially if that source of stress keeps coming back.
And depending on the circumstances, it can wear you down over time and if you fall into that pattern it can drain some of the strength you need to deal with the other things in your life. Sometimes they are small things, sometimes there are not and sometimes we don't see them at all although the weight is still there.

i think that is what therapists help us do, they gather the facts and with our help they try to see our perspective while sharing their own. Which can help us to see things we may not have been able to see, it's almost like taking a landscape photo of the same object from two different angles to give you a better perspective.

There are a lot of things in life that we can't change or prevent and the weight of that can cause us to do harm to ourselves or others, wither we are aware of it or not. And when something comes along that brings you down or close to the breaking point getting another perspective of it can be enlightening and open our eyes to truths new and old and to helps us see our true strength.

 

[Ed]

...Or it could just be a placebo. Why not?

 

[David Baxter PhD]

...Or it could just be a placebo. Why not?

Well, how much benefit you as an individual may derive from psychotherapy (or medication for that matter) depends partly on you, of course. If you start with the attitude that it can't and won't help you, and continue by rejecting everything your therapist has to suggest that might help you, you'll pretty much guarantee that it won't help - a self-fulfilling prophecy. On the other hand, if you begin with what the Buddhist's call [GOOGLE]The Beginner's Mind[/GOOGLE], you'll likely have a very different experience.

The weight evidence from scientific research is quite clear: The potential benefits very clearly go far beyond what could be accounted for by a placebo effect alone.

 

[forgetmenot]

Begin with a beginners mind - I like that and i think it would be very helpful to start that way with an open mind. I think what is being said here is very helpful Ed. I am going to try this on my session on the 24th. I think if you just try to be this way with your therapist you will see more benefits coming out of your sessions.

take care
mary

 

[Ed]

Your explanations aren't sufficient enough. Now, in fact, in regards to what Jazzey wrote, it still fits into my (so-called) delusions. Believe it or not. He/she hasn't proved a thing, besides, "being fooled by a placebo."

I may write a little more about this tomorrow. Thanks for reading. Bye!


Kind regards,
Ed

---------- Post added later and automatically merged ----------

Though, placebos are worth something, so all that money wasn't a complete waste...