More threads by David Baxter PhD

David Baxter PhD

Late Founder
Why Are We Afraid of the New Flu Vaccine?
By Tara Parker-Pope, New York Times
October 7, 2009

Recently, a mother I know told me that her doctor has urged her to get the new H1N1 flu shot for her two children, who both have asthma. She already gives her children the regular seasonal flu shot, but for reasons she can’t really explain, she’s nervous about the new flu vaccine.

She’s not alone. Talk shows and Internet sites are abuzz with questions and fears about getting vaccinated against the novel H1N1 virus, often called swine flu. The popular Web site Mercola.com is urging parents not to get the flu vaccine, and the talk show host Bill Maher[1] posted a warning about the new flu shot to his more than 50,000 followers on Twitter. A University of Michigan poll found that 60 percent of parents surveyed do not plan to vaccinate their children against H1N1.

Now, as the first doses become available, government officials are trying to combat myths and fears about the novel H1N1 flu and the vaccine that can prevent it, Donald G. McNeil Jr. of The New York Times reported on Wednesday.

Much of the fear stems from a vaccine debacle more than 30 years ago. In 1976, a swine flu vaccine was associated with Guillain-Barr? syndrome (pronounced ghee-YAN bah-RAY), in which the body damages its own nerve cells, causing weakness and sometimes paralysis. The reasons are unclear. Some studies found no link. Another study suggested that one person in every one million vaccinated for seasonal flu might be at risk for Guillain-Barr?.

But the problems in 1976 have nothing to do with the current vaccine, which is produced in the same fashion as the regular flu vaccine. An article in this week’s New Yorker by Michael Specter summed it up well. In it, Mr. Specter writes:

Though this H1N1 virus is novel, the vaccine is not. It was made and tested in exactly the same way that flu vaccines are always made and tested. Had this strain of flu emerged just a few months earlier, there would not have been any need for two vaccines this year; 2009 H1N1 would simply have been included as one of the components in the annual vaccine.

Meanwhile, the virus has now appeared in a hundred and ninety-one countries. It has killed almost four thousand people and infected millions of others. The risks are clear and so are the facts. But, while scientists and public-health officials have dealt effectively with the disease, they increasingly confront a different kind of contagion: the spurious alarms spread by those who would make us fear vaccines more than the illnesses they prevent.


[1] Supplementary question (DJB): Why on earth would anyone turn to ill-informed "entertainers" like this person for their medical and health information?
 

Daniel E.

daniel@psychlinks.ca
Administrator
Bill Maher[1] posted a warning about the new flu shot to his more than 50,000 followers on Twitter

Yeah, I would ask Tom Cruise for a second opinion about that :D
 
Seasonal flu shot may increase H1N1 risk
CBC News
Wednesday, September 23, 2009

Preliminary research suggests the seasonal flu shot may put people at greater risk for getting swine flu, CBC News has learned.

"This is some evidence that has been floated. It hasn't been validated yet, it's very preliminary," cautioned Dr. Don Low, microbiologist-in-chief at Mount Sinai Hospital in Toronto.

"This is obviously important data to help guide policy decisions. How can we best protect people against influenza?"

It's important to validate the information, which has not been peer reviewed, to make sure it's not just a fluke, and that the observation is confirmed elsewhere such as in the Southern Hemisphere, which just completed its seasonal flu season, or in the U.S. and UK.

Four Canadian studies involved about 2,000 people, health officials told CBC News. Researchers found people who had received the seasonal flu vaccine in the past were more likely to get sick with the H1N1 virus.

Researchers know that, theoretically, when people are exposed to bacteria or a virus, it can stimulate the immune system to create antibodies that facilitate the entry of another strain of the virus or disease. Dengue fever is one example, Low said.

No seasonal flu shot?
The latest finding raises questions about the order in which to get flu shots.

Across Canada, public health authorities are debating the idea of shortening, delaying or scrapping their seasonal flu vaccination campaign in favour of mass inoculation against H1N1.

The main reason is that H1N1 may be the dominant strain of influenza circulating when the fall flu season hits, meaning it could be a waste of time and resources to mount a seasonal flu vaccine campaign.

Health authorities in Quebec are considering cancelling or postponing seasonal flu shots for some groups, such as healthy, younger adults.

The Public Health Agency of Canada says it's up to provinces and territories to decide on when to roll out flu shots.

"We don't know with this year's flu shot how it interacts with the pandemic flu shot, so it's a worry," said Dr. Michael Gardam, director of infectious diseases prevention and control at the Ontario Agency for Health Protection and Promotion.

"It makes the decision-making a lot more complex," Dr. Perry Kendall, B.C.'s provincial health officer, said in Victoria. "It would be very nice to have information cut and dried, and very clear in advance in plenty of time to make the decisions. But that isn't unfortunately the world that we're living in."

In Thornhill, Ont., Melissa Cass, who usually gets an annual flu shot to protect herself, had been planning to get one this year for her one-year-old daughter, Aliya, as well.

"You have a baby, you sort of want to protect them from everything possible. So if you can protect them from some things, why not?" Cass said.

But this year, she may not get any shots.

"If I knew that it was a risk to get H1N1, I wouldn't get any of them," she told CBC News. "I would just be as I am and just, you know, take all the precautions I possibly can for flus, and that's it."
 
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David Baxter PhD

Late Founder
Preliminary research suggests the seasonal flu shot may put people at greater risk for getting swine flu. Four Canadian studies involved about 2,000 people, found people who had received the seasonal flu vaccine in the past were more likely to get sick with the H1N1 virus.

Sources?

Researchers know that, theoretically, when people are exposed to bacteria or a virus, it can stimulate the immune system to create antibodies that facilitate the entry of another strain of the virus or disease.

Again, source? I've never heard that...

Across Canada, public health authorities are debating the idea of shortening, delaying or scrapping their seasonal flu vaccination campaign in favour of mass inoculation against H1N1.

The main reason is that H1N1 may be the dominant strain of influenza circulating when the fall flu season hits, meaning it could be a waste of time and resources to mount a seasonal flu vaccine campaign. Health authorities in Quebec are considering cancelling or postponing seasonal flu shots for some groups, such as healthy, younger adults. The Public Health Agency of Canada says it's up to provinces and territories to decide on when to roll out flu shots.

I haven't heard that. What my doctor told me last Thursday was that the health department want to vaccinate against H1N1 first and they are prioritizing by risk who gets it when because supplies are limited. Regular flu shots will be scheduled to follow the H1N1 shots.

As far as I know, that's still the plan in Ontario.
 

Daniel E.

daniel@psychlinks.ca
Administrator
It's an excerpt from here:

CBC News - Seasonal flu shot may increase H1N1 risk

A comment that reflects my initial reaction:

What could easily account for the results of this study is that many people who get flu shots are at the greatest risk of catching the flu, or at greater risk of more serious illness and complications, which would result in a higher incidence of reporting within this group. The seasonal shot offers no protection against H1N1. Until the study is actually released, and given due statistical consideration, it is unwise for the provinces to change course, or make assumptions.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...provinces-to-rethink-flu-plan/article1303330/
 
No one has all the right answers...it's just chit chat, but doesn't hurt to be aware of things coming from different sources....
 

NicNak

Resident Canuck
Administrator
Yeah, I would ask Tom Cruise for a second opinion about that :D

Or Jim Carrey and his wife. :D



Seriously though, Doctors have been predicting a pandemic for many years now. I believe this was one of the main reasons to start vaccinating people annually for the flu.

Here is one of the pandemics, in my opinion, staring us right in the face. In todays day in age, we can actually do things to prevent it.

Reports I have been reading, are saying that Doctors believe, the high rate of deaths in Mexico could have been a result of most of them not recieving an annual flu shot, hense not having the same immunity as other countries. Other possably factors included food and water quality too and over all health prior to exposure of H1N1.

Virus' can, and usually do, mutate. So just say the H1N1 virus mutates and gets stronger. Those most vunerable people will be put at even greater risk of death from H1N1. With the vaccination they will have some immunity.

I think people who question the validity of vaccinations should read up on Poliomyelitis (Polio) and ask themselves, how many cases have they heard of in their lifetime? and ask why that is.

Another important vaccination is for Tetanus How many cases has anyone heard of this?

I could go on and on, but I won't. I have no fear of taking a vaccination at all.

As for the Flu vaccination, our doctors know our history and even if one gets vaccinated at a clinic, any allergies or possable reactions can be addressed before recieving the vaccination.

The H1N1 from what I have been reading has been cultivated using caterpillers as aposed to chicken eggs. The benefit of this is that it was quicker to cultivate the vaccination, as well as more people can be vaccinated with less risk of allergies.

Of course!!!! Always tell your doctor about any allergies or previous reactions.
 

Andy

MVP
With all that said I am still not getting the vaccine.
It's not that I am afraid or don't believe it will work. I have never had the regular flu shot either.

I believe in exposing my immune system to cold and flu type viruses and letting it fight it off and build up it's immunity. Obviously I would hit up the Dr.'s for treatment if my little plan wasn't working. I don't know if that is stupid with this flu or not. I rarely get sick and I am rarely around people (so less germs).

I think the elderly, young, and immune compromised should no questions asked but healthy adults I think should just base it on their own health. If your a sicky who can't go without getting sick ten times a year then get it, if your healthy most of the year then take it or leave it.

I don't know lol Am I being ignorant about this? I mean I do think this has been blown way out of proportion. Technically the regular Flu kills however many people a year to. :blush:
 

David Baxter PhD

Late Founder
STP said:
the regular Flu kills however many people a year too

Exactly. So if you're at risk in a regular year, you're more at risk in a "pandemic" year.

I experienced the Asian flu and the Hong Kong flu and they were downright nasty - knocked me out totally for like 10 days each. And a lot of people died. I wasn't getting flu shots in those days - I'm not sure they were even available.

If you're self-employed and/or coming into contact with other people on a regular basis, frankly I think you're nuts not to get a flu shot. If I were hit by a serious flu and off for 7-10 days, I don't have sick leave and I'd lose a significant part of my income for that month.
 

Banned

Banned
Member
If you're self-employed and/or coming into contact with other people on a regular basis, frankly I think you're nuts not to get a flu shot.

I guess I'm nuts.

I'm not getting the regular flu vaccine or the H1N1 vaccine either. I'm self-employed, but willing to take the chance. I haven't had a flu since 1997 and have always been in contact with other people. I worked at the airport during the whole SARS thing and was fine.

I think it's really a personal choice. People will have different reasons for taking it or refusing it. I know my whole family gets it, but my parents are both over 60 and my dad has numerous other problems, so probably a compromised immune system as well. As for me, I'm young, healthy, non-smoker...and won't be getting them.
 

Retired

Member
From Medscape Medical News
CDC Offers Reassurances on H1N1 Vaccine Safety
Robert Lowes

October 6, 2009 ( UPDATED October 7, 2009 ) ? On the second day of nationwide vaccination for the influenza A (H1N1) virus, the director of the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reiterated that the vaccine is safe in an effort to assuage public misgivings.

"The vaccine is the best tool to protect against the flu," CDC Director Thomas Frieden, MD, said today during a press briefing. "My children will get it."

As of Monday, some 2.2 million doses of FluMist, the intranasal formulation of the H1N1 vaccine, had been ordered by all 50 states, the cities of Chicago, New York, Philadelphia, and Washington, DC; and 3 overseas public-health jurisdictions. This figure represents 92% of available stock. Next week, the first doses of the injectable H1N1 vaccine will become available for administration, said Dr. Frieden. The CDC will begin taking orders for this vaccine formulation tomorrow.

Despite many physicians reporting that patients have tied up their phones asking to be vaccinated immediately, one poll suggests that a large swathe of the public is reluctant to get vaccinated, in large measure because of safety concerns. A survey conducted in mid-September by the Harvard School of Public Health found that 53% of adults intended to get the H1N1 vaccine for themselves, but only 40% of adults were "absolutely certain" they would. Of the adults who did not intend to get the vaccine, or who were otherwise uncertain, 30% cited possible adverse effects as the reason, while 20% worried about contracting influenza from the vaccine.

Likewise, only 51% of parents were "absolutely certain" that they will have their children vaccinated, and of the remaining parents, 38% cited adverse effects, and 33% were concerned their child might contract another major illness from the vaccine.

Dr. Frieden repeated earlier CDC assertions that the new vaccine is safe. "It's made in the same way that seasonal vaccine is made each year by the same manufacturers using the same methods in the same facilities." And the safety track record of the seasonal flu vaccine, he said, is excellent.

He also addressed a misconception that H1N1 influenza is a benign illness that does not necessarily require vaccination. "The flu isn't always mild," said Dr. Frieden. "It can kill you."

Other individuals, said Dr. Frieden, have contended that it's too late during the H1N1 pandemic to administer the vaccine. "It's too soon to say it's too late," countered Dr. Frieden, noting that the flu season traditionally extends into May. "We don't know what the rest of the season will bring. And even in places where the flu has been widespread, affecting 5% to 10% of the population, 90% to 95% are still susceptible."

Dr. Frieden acknowledged that public-health messages about the H1N1 virus are hard for Americans to balance, especially when it comes to knowing when to go to the hospital emergency department. Infected patients who become seriously ill or have underlying medical problems need to seek care promptly, he said. Otherwise, patients with a mild infection can see a physician or care for themselves at home.

Update on Supplies of H1N1 and Seasonal Flu Vaccines

The doses of H1N1 vaccine administered Monday and Tuesday are the first of 251 million ordered by the Department of Health and Human Services from 5 manufacturers. "We?re making them available as soon as they come off the production line," Dr. Frieden said.

The number of doses that public-health agencies can order will reach 40 to 50 million by mid- to late October, according to the CDC. Vaccine production eventually should average 20 million doses per week through the end of the year.

Because initial supplies are slim, said Dr. Frieden, state and local authorities will allocate the vaccine on a priority basis. The CDC has recommended that healthcare workers, people who care for infants, children aged 6 months through 4 years, and children aged 5 through 18 years with a chronic illness should be the first to receive the vaccine. Dr. Frieden said that there is no order of priority within this group. "It?s up to the states to determine," he said.

Children younger than 10 years need 2 doses of the new vaccine, ideally 4 weeks apart. Dr. Frieden encouraged school vaccination programs not to hold back some of their initial allocation for the second shot, but instead to use it all for the first shot. "They should vaccinate as many people as possible," he said. "More [doses] will be coming."

According to news accounts, emergency production of the H1N1 vaccine has caused spot shortages of the 2009-2010 seasonal flu vaccine, forcing clinics in several states to cancel such immunizations. However, this supply problem will get resolved, said Dr. Frieden. "There will be plenty of both vaccines for those who want to be vaccinated."
 

Andy

MVP
If you're self-employed and/or coming into contact with other people on a regular basis, frankly I think you're nuts not to get a flu shot. If I were hit by a serious flu and off for 7-10 days, I don't have sick leave and I'd lose a significant part of my income for that month.

I didn't even think about sick leave and all that. Most people can't afford to get sick, not that they would try and get it if they could afford it...I am ignorant about anything to do with work and finances and all that now. These things don't come to mind until someone reminds me. That changes my opinion just a little bit then. I still think some one like myself doesn't need to get one, being home all the time. Or wait. Would my immunity be weaker now because I am not exposed to many "outside germs" or does it make a difference? :unsure:
 
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