Anorexic- the love-hate relationship.

[Me1]

Meh. Now I'm not sure if she called Carol or not... I don't know if I was dreaming, or if my mom actually asked who she was supposed to call and when. o.o''

I really don't want to go back... I guess I need to, but I really don't want to... so I don't think I will. It's too much, and it's too personal, and too...too. Just too much

 

[Diana]

As difficult as it may be, how difficult is it to continue dealing with this? Why don't you just give it a try, because you know you can stop going if you want to. I remember the first time I started going to group therapy. It almost makes things worse the first few times you go. But, then you get to learn a lot of things - which is scary, I know! I've been finding that just learning things on this forum is scary. But, we can't just shove something to the side when we know it's harming us. You can do what you want, and you can talk to us here - I'm just making a suggestion.

 

[Me1]

Which I appreciate very much! I'm just terrified of going back to her. Or anyone, but she's the psychologist I was most comfortable with.. probably because of the clay. XD Plus, she was very earthy and relaxed, I liked that. She's a very nice woman, I'm just scared half to death. o.o'' I think that if I don't bring it up again, my mom will have forgotten about it, and I won't have to go. I don't want to explain why I changed my mind to her.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

Just take some of your own clay with you and if she tries to say anything just say, "Shhh!! Can't talk. Potting."

)

 

[Me1]

XD

"So... how have you been since the last time I saw you?" "Mmmm, claaaay...."

I really did like the clay.. and she is a nice woman.. I wish I could make up my mind about this. Now I want to go back again. ''
Okay, my mom is calling her now. I can still chicken out, though... but at least I'll have an appointment.
Thanks you guys.

 

[Diana]

That's what we're here for.

 

[Sea Swirl]

I feel so bad for your situation, Shan. Especially for the parental involvement, because parents are often so reactive and just don't know what they're doing. For instance, pressuring you to eat

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but it's that fear of getting disgusting, unappealing, and unworthy of anything that keeps me from doing so.

Are you afraid that therapy will cause you to gain weight? Therapy is fat free and calorie free! It's one of the few things that is good for you and won't make you fat. D

They really can help you... but NOT to gain weight. It won't be like that. They can help you see yourself in a true way and feel better about your body and your mind. It isn't their goal to see you at <a specific weight>. They just want you to be happy, and comfortable with yourself, and they can help show you how to be that way.

Therapy is not a forcible thing. It's all in your power; things will only happen there according to your schedule - when you're ready for them to. Sure, they can set up appointments, but it's all up to you to talk about the important things. Nothing will happen there unless you make it happen, so there is no cause to feel scared by it. You'll be the one telling them what you want to do. They certainly cannot force you to do anything.

I know how you feel about being afraid to gain weight, how you equate getting "help" with being fat, but they are more interested in the "issues" you have. They want to know why you feel unworthy, why you feel that you're disappointing the people around you, how you feel about your parents and your family experiences.

Therapy is very flattering in that it's only place in the world (except for here maybe, LOL) where people will be hanging on your every word. It's like being the star of a really popular talk show. It's SO nice when people actually LISTEN to you and understand what you mean !

Shan, ask yourself... when was the last time someone was actually really listening to you and wanting to hear what you're going through? Instead of just judging you?

Are you sick of people saying, "You're too thin," "You need to eat more, LOOK at you!" "Oh please.. You're not fat."

People are so stupid and annoying that way. Or how about those really self-centered ones who go,

"You're not fat. I'd KILL to be as thin as you!"

Well, therapy is your chance to be HEARD finally. No idiots gawking at how thin they think you are, or demanding that you eat more. Your therapist will actually be a true friend to you by treating you with respect, and listening to you. Wouldn't it be nice to get some respect instead of judging and criticizing?

It sounds to me like people have been dumping on you and treating you like a dumb little kid for much too long. Therapy is one chance to
get someone to treat you as a human being. She will want to understand you and hear your point of view on everything about your life.

I hope you'll consider it. This world is full of people who want to tear you down; you have a chance to meet one of the few who will treat you as an equal, and as a decent person.

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[David Baxter PhD]

I would prefer that you don't post comments or suggestions about "ideal weights" or "non-ideal weights", even where well-intended.

There are so many individual variations in muscle, bone structure, etc., etc., that the "standard weight charts" are virtually useless.

As the rest of Sea Swirl's post notes, treating an eating disorder isn't primarily about weight at all -- it's about addressing the emotional issues and body image distortion issues that create the eating disorder in the first place, and about helping the individual move toward self-acceptance.

 

[Me1]

Sea Swirl was actually very helpful to me, like Diana has been. Both of you seem to be giving me enough courage to go back to Carol.

I'm TERRIFIED to talk to her, (as a full blown social phobic) I don't want her to think I'm psychotic. ...even though that's her job... but I hate it when people are judging me, I hate it, it freaks me out so badly. But Swirly is right, Carol isn't there to judge me, she's supposed to help, listen, understand...right? But what if she doesn't understand?

Anyway... I'm feeling incredibly fat today... my sister had a graduation party today, so...I had to eat, my whole family was there. Two pieces of pizza(oh my GOD), a small(thank you Dawn!) piece of cake, and a scoop of ice cream. I feel so disgusting, I'm thinking about deleting this entire paragraph. o__o' I am FattyMcFaterson, here me roar.

I have an appointment with Carol on the twenty-first. My mom talked to her on the phone, she says that Carol remembers me. Since she does, I'm guessing that my mother won't have to sit in on the first session again. I can't be honest at all that way, I can't talk to my mother about everything. I don't want to disappoint or scare her.

 

[Sea Swirl]

I'm TERRIFIED to talk to her, (as a full blown social phobic)...

I'm kinda social phobic myself, so I know a little bit of what that's like. That's like the feeling I get when people say, "Oh, I'm having a party this weekend. Everybody's coming... Sea Swirl, you HAVE to come !!"

*Oh god, please no..* People? Having to introduce myself to strangers? New doorknobs to touch and germy hands to shake? (Who knows where they've been?! Would it be too obvious if I brought some Lysol and gave everything a quick spray-down??) And of course, people forcing FOOD on you. Hors D'oeuvres and other potentially-germy crap on toothpicks, and if you don't taste it they'll be offended. What if they don't have diet soda? There's no way I'm drinking regular just out of thirst. And like I'm going to go near that dip? Ick, there are probably double-dippers in here. Mouth germs! UGH! And of course... most dreaded... MINGLING.. !!
Anecdotes. Stupid jokes. Having to say the right thing and not weird everyone out like usual...
Gagh. Please, just leave me alone and let me hold up this corner that
desperately seems to need support. Better yet, how bout I guard the car? There's a world full of carjackers out there !

I don't want her to think I'm psychotic...what if she doesn't understand?

I've noticed that things like "crazy" and "psycho" are label diagnoses made only by the public. Therapists don't see the world like that. To them, anorexia is an everyday thing that they're used to addressing. I said this to someone else in PM, but I will say it again: Therapists deal with people who swallow dog poo and stick Hot Wheels up their noses. They talk to cannibals and people who collect fingernails!
To them, anorexia is a pretty common problem and definitely *not* psychotic.

Maybe you could think of it like what you'd see in an emergency room. When "regular" people see gushing blood, they are horrified.
"Oh, how gross!" "That's disgusting!" Well, they can't help it. They're inexperienced yokels and have never seen it before, and don't know how else to cope.

But an ER doc? He won't even worry about it. It's an everyday thing to him, and he will be right there helping, doing surgery, stitching the person up. He's trained to deal with these things, and he never judges the patient badly or thinks it's horrible or "gross."
Mental health care professionals are the same way, and they can help you just like that. Not getting help would be like saying:

"Oh, I can't go to the ER with this bleeding gunshot wound. The doctor will think it's gross and judge me badly, and what if she doesn't understand what I'm going through?"
Don't worry. She will understand. )

but I hate it when people are judging me, I hate it, it freaks me out so badly... I can't talk to my mother about everything. I don't want to disappoint or scare her.

Yeah, people can be terrible. Especially family members and friends, when something like this is happening. Unlike the professionals, they really DON'T know how to handle it. So they judge, and point, and try to make you feel bad, or guilt you into changing. It's not their fault; they just don't know any better.
Therapy can really help to show a person where the social fear comes from. I'm sure they will ask you to talk about that... what exactly you're afraid of when it comes to people, why you worry so about what other people think of you.

And again, you don't have to explore that until you're ready to. But I think/hope there will come a time when you will want to know, too. When you really start into therapy and finding out why you do these things and feel the way you do, it can be pretty revealing and interesting. It's like a light being turned on, or a door being opened, and suddenly your life starts to make sense... instead of being this confusing, scary thing that just goes on and on and feels like a prison.

I'm feeling incredibly fat today... Two pieces of pizza(oh my GOD), a small(thank you Dawn!) piece of cake, and a scoop of ice cream. I feel so disgusting,

Oh yeah. Social events are the worst. If you refuse to eat, everyone criticizes you and you're miserable. If you eat, you hate yourself and still you're miserable ! It's no win. (If only people knew the kind of pressure they put on with the party food !)
And not just with eating disorders, either. Even people who are just legitimately trying to lose weight go through the same guilt, shame, and pressure when it comes to choosing whether they're going to have that piece of cake. The criticism never stops.
This is another reason why it's great to get help with these social situations... Because people will always try to pressure/guilt you into doing things. If you don't know how to handle it, or if you just "give in" every time to avoid the criticism from such people, you can really harm yourself and get into trouble.
I still have problems saying "No, thanks" and risking being the death of the party, or just the subject of everyone's disapproval. It's HARD !

 

[Me1]

It's not just the anorexia that I'm going for, in fact, it's way down at the bottom of the list. But it still needs attention, I suppose.

Gaahaaahaaah. >.<
It's nice knowing some people understand at least a little bit though. Thanks

 

[Diana]

Well Shan, I'm happy to hear that you're feeling much more positive about going to therapy. I realize that you're still scared, but that's OK. Sea Swirl is right about it being the psychologist's job to try to help you deal with whatever is bothering you. I really liked the comparison of a therapist to a medical doctor that doesn't run away from blood. And she's also right that it's in your power. If you don't beleive that a therapist is helping you, you can always find another one. If she is helping you, then you can keep moving forward - AND at your own pace. By the way, the fact that you ate some cake and pizza - well I still have trouble doing that, and would most likely refuse it - even though it's not going to make you gain an ounce. I used to hate it (well, still do) when I eat something I usually don't and somebody says "Wow!" It makes me feel even more like I just ate so much. So, I'm not saying "Wow!" to you - it's not like you ate a ton, but I'm saying good job for allowing yourself to eat that.

You and Sea Swirl were both saying that you absolutely hate being judged. With anorexia, you don't want to be judged, but you're obviously still expecting to be if you're working towards a certain body image. Maybe it's not the same for everyone, but for me I guess I wanted to be judged and viewed differently then I had been before. I remember saying to a friend after I had lost a lot of weight that I learned that people are going to be critical of you no matter what you look like. If you're heavier, if you're skinnier - I didn't understand what was so wrong about me wanting to be small. Other people were small. But maybe the biggest judge is really me.

Yes, it's true. People judge. I judge. You probably judge (let me know if I'm wrong, because I apologize if you don't). But, I don't think that most people want to hurt you. There are some people out there, but if they feel that need then maybe I should feel sorry for them (well, I'm not a Saint, but at least realize that it's not worth it to stay hurt by it). I tend to judge in others what I judge about myself, and I think that's important to understand. However, if I saw someone on the street and made a quick judgement about them that was negative I would feel completely horrible if they could hear my thoughts and were terribly hurt from it. And, maybe that same person saw me and judged me. Or, maybe I thought or expected that someone judged me, but they didn't at all. I'm sorry, because I'm not sure what my point is, except that it's tiring to always be worrying about what other people are thinking.

Hopefully, what the therapy will do for you is help you to understand where your fears of being judged are coming from. Then you can begin to except yourself because you are 100% worthy. Being happy with yourself is not lying to yourself about how good you are, it's knowing it. I hope we all get there.

 

[Sea Swirl]

- even though it's not going to make you gain an ounce. I used to hate it (well, still do) when I eat something I usually don't and somebody says "Wow!"

ugh, I know. It's like, you're already insecure enough about doing something in front of people, and then they make it worse by putting all this attention on you. ("Oh, wow, I can't believe you actually ATE that!"
"You're usually so finicky.") Why do they do that?!
I used to have an intense phobia of eating in front of people (I still don't like to) and so I didn't for several years. But as soon as I would try to eat something small, even just nibble on something when I was in a group, it was like everybody had to comment on it...
Oy.. Maybe my biggest fear is that I do things like that to people now (in other ways) and am not even aware of it. Horrible thought, that...

With anorexia, you don't want to be judged, but you're obviously still expecting to be if you're working towards a certain body image.

Yeah, this is so true, and paradoxical. Because on the one hand, you're
getting tons of negative judgement from your family about being too thin; on the other, you know on some level that *society* prefers women to be as thin as possible, and that knowledge is powerful enough to keep you dieting even in the face of so much criticism from the people directly around you. It's weird !
Maybe the difference is in the *type* of judgement you get. Society's judgement and standard is so much more subtle than that from your family. The silent magazine covers and billboards, the quiet absence of overweight women in movies and TV shows. The marked increase in unsolicited attention you get from strange men (lol) as soon as you lose a few pounds...
Where your family is ruthless. They attack directly and verbally, and try to control what you're eating and when. Every damn DAY is a trial with your family. When you're thin (and a minor, especially) it's just one barb after another, and directly, exclusively at YOU. This is another contrast to the societal cues, because those are broadbeam, generalised to the entire public.
It's a whole other thing when you're alone in fielding all those "remarks."

I remember saying to a friend after I had lost a lot of weight that I learned that people are going to be critical of you no matter what you look like. If you're heavier, if you're skinnier

Oh yeah. That is exactly it. Maybe that's part of the healing process from any eating disorder, realizing that you can NEVER please the people around you with what you look like. In the end, you have to do what makes *you* feel good and happy with yourself.
For every "leg man," there is a boob man. For everyone looking for "trim and athletic," there is someone who wants soft and feminine. And for every woman who praises you for sticking to your diet, there are plenty more who are jealous, or bitter, or insecure enough to play the 'Anorexia Card' just to try to get you to feel like you're doing something wrong.
It's hopeless LOL. You just gotta be YOU, and not worry *too much* about what people think of your weight or your body mass index.

Yes, it's true. People judge. I judge. You probably judge (let me know if I'm wrong, because I apologize if you don't). .. if I saw someone on the street and made a quick judgement about them that was negative I would feel completely horrible if they could hear my thoughts

Of course... we're none of us perfect. Judging is a part of life, too. But I think there is a difference in keeping stuff to ourselves vs. a verbal attack on someone. When I was anorexic (and even when I wasn't), I would get all kinds of feedback from people about how I looked. Always positive from male non-family members (lol, wonder why?), and often negative from my parents and siblings.
My personal feeling on verbal judgement of someone is that if it's not a compliment, it's often best left unsaid. I mean, why should weight be any different than any other physical characteristic? Is it ok to say, "That mole on your face really doesn't look good," "Your hair looks bad today," "You need a tan. Look at your skin!!"
(And why do some people feel that all the standards about rudeness suddenly go out the window when someone appears to be underweight? I'll never understand that !)
I guess what I'm saying is... We can't be blamed for the judgements we think. Only the ones we say out loud. Like Diana said, it's way too much work to keep up with the thoughts of others, and even the perceived thoughts. It's hard enough to keep abreast of the comments, and even doing that is fruitless.

 

[Diana]

What I found quite confusing was the comments that I recieved from some people after I became aware of my anorexia and decided I was on the road to recovery. I came back to my home town for the summer, and saw many people I hadn't seen in a long time. I actually got the comment "You look good." Now, I know that from some people, that comment came out because they were shocked by how I looked and they didn't know what else to say. However a couple of months down the road, when I was still very, very small, I would get positive comments from guys. The thing is, there are probably so many reasons for people's comments whether they're true or untrue, and so many reasons for people's different perceptions. I think in the end, you have to learn not to let the comments mess with your head (which is so terribly difficult for somebody with an eating disorder who is already so vulnerable). You have to take charge of your own body and mind - "I'm not physically healthy, I'm not mentally healthy (not completely), I know I need help at this moment in time".

Fortunately, my parents were quite good about it and came forward when they felt they should, and backed off when they felt they should. Sea Swirl is right about people feeling the necessity to comment on how skinny someone is. Now, I think if your family and friends know you have a problem and they fear for your health, it's OK for them to tell you that you don't look good (but, there are better and worse ways to do this). However, what if you see someone that appears to be underweight, but they eat normally? Some people do have that body type - as frustrating as that is to anyone with an eating disorder. And, when I see someone who I believe to be very underweight I always comment on it - not to their face! But, I think it's a whole bunch of simultaneous emotions that make me comment on it, or even notice it. Empathy for the girl, jealousy of the girl, etc because I don't know her situation. I guess if we can learn to understand our true selves we can learn to accept that our views or anyone else's views are only subjective perceptions. It's close to impossible to be objective.