Avoidant Personality Disorder

[Daniel E.]

A possibly similar point:

With negative/ruminative thinking, it's easy to get lost in symptoms, problems of living, etc. at the expense of focusing on solutions (including what you are doing already that is effective/helpful) and what you want in life anyway.

For example:

Solution-Focused Questions for Anxiety

 

[GaryQ]

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I was just trying to express that you seem overly obsessed with finding a specific identifier to your problem(s) and it will only increase your anxiety rather than calm it. (BTW it's totally understandable)

Physical problems need as clear and concise a diagnosis as possible. Example: My heart problem is mainly caused by acute coronary artery disease. The diagnosis is important because it defines a pretty exact treatment protocol: lowering blood pressure, thinning blood and reducing the risk of clotting by reducing my platelet levels substantially. When I had blocked arteries the diagnosis was important and hence the recommended treatment depending on the % of the blockage was stents or CAGB (Coronary artery bypass surgery)

Psyychiatric/Psychological problems are different since the same "issue" can be caused by a multitude of factors that unless a psychiatrist or psychologist could rewind and watch your whole life to see if any outside factors that you could potentially not remember have caused or aggravated the "issue". Example my fear of abandonment and of rejection could probably be caused by childhood trauma or simply by other neuropsychiatric problems or everything combined. Knowing what triggered or cause the issue can help to understand and treat accordingly but most therapy is focused on learning to overcome and deal with it and if medication is necessary then many trials might be necessary. Psychiatry and Psychology are not exact sciences. What might seem like the blatantly obvious cause of a problem or a diagnosis might be totally out in left field. But when it comes to treating certain problems there is a lot of trial and error over the years to be able to work out an approach to help you deal with the issue. I remember when one psychiatrist told me my only problem was that I had a "personality disorder" When I asked my GP what the heck is a personality disorder he said that's what they say when they don't have the slightest clue what's wrong with you.

Also, I believe that unless a medication has been tried and totally failed or caused serious side effects if a psychiatrist recommends trying it (ex the Prozac) then I think the risk is worth the potential reward. After all he has spent a lot of time learning about this stuff to get his degree. Worse case scenario you feel like crap till the stuff is finally out of your system if the med trial didn't work or gave negative side effects that were intolerable.

I've personally been through 2 trials in the last 2 months one as a combo therapy with bupropion and sertraline on my recommendation and the other was my doctor's suggestion that I try Trintellix. Both were really bad total failures. Can't win them all.

Try some of the suggestions that have been offered to help you maybe start with your anxiety. Reducing anxiety has a funny side effect of making other issues so much easier to deal with. My Tourette for example was diagnosed as "mild" oh boy you would think I was on Cocaine, Crack or Meth when it would flare up in anxious moments. Mindfulness might be a good start for calming your anxiety also deep breathing techniques. Daniel seems to know a lot about it and is always willing to provide help so he could probably help you with tips or guidance on the subject. He's also very good and finding relevant articles. Kind of like our own human version of a Google search engine for the forum There is so much help and information on the forum regarding anxiety. I only seem to be able to deal with my anxiety with Clonazepam (probably due to less work and effort needed on my part) but sooner or later as the tolerance continues to build it will no longer be effective and so I too need to start learning techniques to lower my anxiety and stress levels with other means.

EDIT: See what I mean as I was taking forever on top of being interrupted writing my response Daniel (our forum Google) had already added another post. I think a pretty good one!

 

[Roy H.]

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I was just trying to express that you seem overly obsessed with finding a specific identifier to your problem(s) and it will only increase your anxiety rather than calm it. (BTW it's totally understandable)

Physical problems need as clear and concise a diagnosis as possible. Example: My heart problem is mainly caused by acute coronary artery disease. The diagnosis is important because it defines a pretty exact treatment protocol: lowering blood pressure, thinning blood and reducing the risk of clotting by reducing my platelet levels substantially. When I had blocked arteries the diagnosis was important and hence the recommended treatment depending on the % of the blockage was stents or CAGB (Coronary artery bypass surgery)

Psyychiatric/Psychological problems are different since the same "issue" can be caused by a multitude of factors that unless a psychiatrist or psychologist could rewind and watch your whole life to see if any outside factors that you could potentially not remember have caused or aggravated the "issue".

So I went and saw therapist for second time and he more or less said the same thing - I'm overly stuck on finding an exact name for my issue(s).


And I am sorry to say...but I AM. I can not help it. If someone has cancer or ALS, and feels horrible, they probably would not accept "well it's not important what is specifically wrong with you" as a sufficient answer.


I can't help it - I feel the same way. I want to know, EXACTLY, what is wrong with my head so I can fix it.


As it is I don't know if I'm even going to go back to the next meeting with that therapist (like several before him) as I don't see what the point is.

 

[GaryQ]

i Understand how you feel. I’m the same way they all want to find some medication or therapy to break my chronic depression and nobody seems to want to figure out what is the root cause(s) of it.

Sometimes i find it as stupid as if you take your car in to the garage because your battery keeps dying and they just keep replacing it rather than figuring what is actually wrong that’s causing it to die.

But then sadly the brain isn’t as simple. It’s more important to help you learn how to deal with it so that your quality of life improves than naming it. Because unless it’s a neurological issue or brain damage it’s going to require pretty much the same therapy based on what you are experiencing regardless of what it’s called.

The only difference between you and me in this thread is that it’s your problem we are discussing and not mine which removes me from it and allows me to look at it from a logical and rational point of view. So much easier for me to do than when I’m dealing with my own issues.

I would like to strongly encourage you to just continue going to see the therapist. I don’t have that privilege. Try and focus on what’s important: feeling better one day! Knowing what is causing it won’t miraculously make it any better. You will still have to go through the process and the hard work needed to reprogram your mind to deal with your daily struggles.

Just hold on tight and keep going to therapy and I guarantee it can’t get worse but can in time get better but you have to put the effort and open yourself up to the possibility of it helping otherwise you’ll end up stuck in a trap just like me and that’s not fun.

 

[Daniel E.]

As it is I don't know if I'm even going to go back to the next meeting with that therapist (like several before him) as I don't see what the point is.

"The healing is in the meeting." ~ Martin Buber

“I find that this desire to be all of oneself in each moment — all the richness and complexity, with nothing hidden from oneself, and nothing feared in oneself — this is a common desire in those who have seemed to show much movement in therapy. I do not need to say that this is a difficult, and in its absolute sense an impossible goal. Yet one of the most evident trends in clients is to move toward becoming all of the complexity of one’s changing self in each significant moment.”

― Carl Rogers, On Becoming a Person

(Personally, I have learned the hard way not to quit therapy.)

 

[Roy H.]

It just seems like - a lot of or most of the time - we're just shooting the breeze.


No, I don't have a lot of friends and I am isolating almost in extremes at this point. If it weren't for the fact that I am on my own now (literally) and if I don't have a paycheck every week and pay my bills I literally am going to be on the street, otherwise I might make very little effort at all to run in to people. The few "friends" I do have, most of them are active alcoholics (high-functioning, unlike me).



I'm not sure If I'm going to continue on with the meetings - the drive is farther than I'd like to begin with.


I will take your advice into consideration though.

 

[Daniel E.]

BTW: Small Talk in Therapy

Also, even going once a month may be better than nothing. And, of course, you can address this issue to your therapist.

 

[Daniel E.]

6 Awkward Things You Must Tell Your Therapist

It's very important to remember that you can get the most out of therapy when you bring up what you are truly thinking and feeling-- even when-- or especially when-- it involves the therapy itself...


3) You are unsure if you are making progress.

For many people, especially if they are conflict-avoidant, one of the most difficult conversations of all is to express doubt or dissatisfication about the therapeutic process or, even more specifically, the therapist themselves. A large percentage of people would rather just stop seeing the therapist than have this conversation and try to recalibrate whatever doesn't seem to be working. And of course, this is an understandable reaction. Some therapists are simply better than others, and even when competence is not an issue, match can be-- certain styles and theoretical orientations and personalities are more bound to click with your needs than others are. But other times, feeling stalled can be part of the therapy process itself, as there's a certain truth to the fact that sometimes you must feel worse before you can get better. This is virtually a guarantee if you are reopening old wounds or spending a lot of time talking about things that sadden or anger or frighten you. And to flee the therapy at that crucial point can be shooting yourself in the foot-- doing the work without sticking around to get the reward. So bring it up instead, and see where it goes.

 

[GaryQ]

It just seems like - a lot of or most of the time - we're just shooting the breeze.

That's probably a very intelligent effective way for your therapist to make you feel COMFORTABLE so that you can trust him and truly open up. Once you feel safe then he can attack your issues with you. In any type of relationship until a person feels safe enough to open up you'll never get anywhere past superficial dialogue.

​

No, I don't have a lot of friends and I am isolating almost in extremes at this point. If it weren't for the fact that I am on my own now (literally) and if I don't have a paycheck every week and pay my bills I literally am going to be on the street, otherwise I might make very little effort at all to run in to people. The few "friends" I do have, most of them are active alcoholics (high-functioning, unlike me).

There's no such thing as a high-functioning alcoholic... just someone pretending to get by till everything finally starts to unravel and fall apart. Better to have no friends than someone that might encourage you to have a "sip" when you already have problems with drinking.

​

I'm not sure If I'm going to continue on with the meetings - the drive is farther than I'd like to begin with.
I will take your advice into consideration though.

Well if you find a better way to make your life happier and to learn to overcome your issues then sure, go ahead and stop therapy. But there's no miracle cure or quick fix that doesn't involve hard work.

Just convert this wasted energy and refocus it towards your therapy and then over time we can all be happy for you when you come back to share the progress you will make even if its a tiny bit progress is progress!

 

[GaryQ]

Oh and this therapist of yours must be very good, after all he pretty much reiterated what I had told you

 

[Daniel E.]

IMHO, the term "high functioning" is dubious to begin with. It's a very relative term, for one thing. I have been unemployed most of my adult life and, even then, was still considered "high functioning" compared to some others with OCD.

 

[Roy H.]

That's probably a very intelligent effective way for your therapist to make you feel COMFORTABLE so that you can trust him and truly open up. Once you feel safe then he can attack your issues with you. In any type of relationship until a person feels safe enough to open up you'll never get anywhere past superficial dialogue.

There's no such thing as a high-functioning alcoholic... just someone pretending to get by till everything finally starts to unravel and fall apart. Better to have no friends than someone that might encourage you to have a "sip" when you already have problems with drinking.

​

Well if you find a better way to make your life happier and to learn to overcome your issues then sure, go ahead and stop therapy. But there's no miracle cure or quick fix that doesn't involve hard work.

Just convert this wasted energy and refocus it towards your therapy and then over time we can all be happy for you when you come back to share the progress you will make even if its a tiny bit progress is progress!

"High functioning" comparable to me. By far. People that hold on to their jobs (even though clearly alcoholic). Me?...I fall off the face of the earth when I drink...period. Blackouts are par for the course now for me. Detox. Lost my last job because I blacked out and didn't even know I walked off the job I was so intoxicated. That kind of stuff.


Anyways...I'm not sure about this therapist. My sister has told me (and probably other people have as well) you keep trying therapists until you find the right one. Somewhat like AA meetings - you keep going to them until you feel like you find the one that fits with you.

 

[Daniel E.]

No one would say stick with a therapist you don't like. The important thing is to not give up on therapy itself. Also, like most relationships (including professional ones), a relationship with a therapist can take time to build up.

Anyways...I'm not sure about this therapist.

Personally, with my OCD/anxiety, I'm unsure about many things.

How many sessions have you had with this therapist so far?

 

[GaryQ]

Also, like most professional relationships, a relationship with a therapist can take time to build up.

Can't get any clearer than that!

You can fight the problem or you can fight the help. That's your call. People here have actual experience of dealing with their own mental health issues and know and understand what you're feeling and going through. We all have our problems and only desire to help and encourage others to grow and heal

If this was politics we could debate it till the cows come home but it isn't you have trouble dealing with your issues and can live with them as is or do something about it.

Hoping this comes across as intended. being firm and to the point respectfully.

 

[Daniel E.]

At the risk of stating the obvious about the illusion of high functioning: There are a number of formerly wealthy, well- connected people, including doctors, who have lost everything from alcoholism. And on top of that they may also have court dates, etc. These people were running on empty for years and no one may have known.

In general, people who use substances like alcholol have relied on substances instead of relationships to manage their emotions. And it works very well in the short term, and human relationships can be unpredictable.

I also liken my OCD compulsions to an addiction. They are very effective in the short term. That is why I think anything other than the addiction can be helpful, even if it seems like a waste of time.

 

[Roy H.]

No one would say stick with a therapist you don't like. The important thing is to not give up on therapy itself. Also, like most relationships (including professional ones), a relationship with a therapist can take time to build up.



Personally, with my OCD/anxiety, I'm unsure about many things.

How many sessions have you had with this therapist so far?

Two.

 

[GaryQ]

I’ve been reflecting on your situation. Avoidant personality disorder.
seems to me like the disorder might distort your perception of the interactions with your therapist.
One on one therapy sessions seem to be great exposure treatment. After all you want to feel better around people. No?

what do you think? (logically and rationally not emotionally)

 

[Roy H.]

I’ve been reflecting on your situation. Avoidant personality disorder.
seems to me like the disorder might distort your perception of the interactions with your therapist.
One on one therapy sessions seem to be great exposure treatment. After all you want to feel better around people. No?

what do you think? (logically and rationally not emotionally)

Well I've had some "slips" lately.

He's got a background in LADC. I "slipped" this past Saturday and drank about a liter of hard liquor.

I don't know how I feel about anything anymore. I'm on my own entirely - literally. I am the only one left who cares about whether I live or die, and I'm agnostic on whether I care about fighting day-in, day-out.


I will go back to see him one more time and see what he has to say about the slip I just had. There are a lot of layers to my mess, for sure, much more than just staying sober, not drinking, working a program, mental health, my mother's suicide and my fathers life. It goes on and on.

- - - Updated - - -

And after visiting relatives this holiday week, and one of them telling me that Fluoxitine was something they were fine with, I started taking it yesterday.

 

[Daniel E.]

I am the only one left who cares about whether I live or die

Of course, we care and your therapist does as well. But I understand what you are saying. Reminds me of the lyric: "It's the loneliness that's the killer."

 

[GaryQ]

We are never as alone as we perceive ourselves to be. The hard part is accepting and grasping the hand that is reaching out to help when we feel like we're drowning.

Except for the drinking part, I can fully understand what you are going though because I live with it constantly and have for many years but every single time I'm at the end of my rope somehow strangely someone comes along and ties on another couple feet of rope or gives me a push upwards a bit. Most of the time just enough to keep hanging on a bit longer. Then it starts all over again. I'm still here at 56 years old so there's been a lot of extra rope and pushes handed my way when I thought all was lost.

Now regarding the falling off the wagon part I think you know as well as I do that it's not how often you fall but how often you get back up that matters. Life WILL knock you down. That's a fact but it can't keep you down as long as you keep getting back up!

​

I'd really appreciate it if you would do me one little favor please: Go to your next meeting as planned. Then, go to 2 more, one for me and one just for the heck of it before you make any decision whatsoever regarding your therapy. What do you say?

Where there is life there is hope!