Denying the Father's Role when Mother is a Narcissist

[rdw]

To me it sounds like your parents have made their decision, now you have to make yours. Whether you think your mother is in control or not, your father has stated his wish. You can accept his wish or you can make amends to their satisfaction - it is that simple and that hard.

 

[Cat Dancer]

Wanda, what do you think would help you to have peace in this situation? I'm sorry you're in such a tough place right now.

 

[wanda20]

Hello RDW and Cat Dancer. Thanks for your replies. I just want to see my dad before he dies and have some time just to be together - without arguing. I cannot do that with Mum there - and she will be there. But Dad has made it clear he wants to be left in peace, so in the end, I have to abide by that. I am trying to find some way to deal with that.

I have tried to make amends in the past to their satisfaction, but since I "cut the reins of control loose" 12 years ago, I have tried to have a civil conversation, and all my Mum talks about is how much she is in pain over what I have done and said to her in the past 12 years. When we have got to the point where we start talking again, if I don't ring her at the time she wants and attend to her needs first, we argue, I get frustrated and angry and the circle goes round again. My second eldest sister has reunited with mum, after much patience, a tearful sorry, a divorce with her husband, and putting mum's needs first. Mum believed she was under her hihsbands "evil influence" for 23 years. Because my sister has done all that, she can now have a relationship with Dad. I guess in the end, all I can do is learn to let him go somehow. I will have a lot of regrets and I will have to deal with them somehow I suppose.

 

[W00BY]

This is the downside to trying to be strong enough to deal with these moments.

Self doubt and score settling,

Family crisis when you are already trying to carve a life of your own free of a lot of what a dysfunctional family brings is horrible.

But it can be done, there is not that much I can say other than you can get through it and acceptance is a huge part of that.

I don't really want to talk about my mum in great detail but I speak to neither my mother or father both abused me right into adulthood and my mother has left me with more to come to terms with than my father.

I was at the beginning of the year was asked to go to my Gran's funeral (who was complicit in a lot of the abuse and blamed me for it all) I didn't want to go, there where people there who I had not seen for a long time particularly my dad and my sister.

For me it was like going into the lion's den, which if you go near your mother to see your father sounds much the same.

I managed it but what it has left me with a sense of is I really don't want to be the person all those people think I am.

I love my father but have accepted that come his demise and eventual death I won't be part of it and the same with my mother.

It sounds harsh but when my brother had a stroke and I was contacted I did not answer the emails.

What I am doing for myself which is protection and putting myself first, emotionally, mentally and both physical and mental health is needed and none of those I would need to speak to or be in contact with in my family would.

It is not an easy decision you have to make but I would urge you too keep in sharp focus what matters to you and what you need before you start to consider anything your family may ask of you.

In the end it may drag up stuff in you that you had not expected, wanted or needed that your left to deal with.

The borders between our own emotions and those of our family are very blurry when there is (even minimal) emotional abuse.

I hope you get through this and wish you well.

Protect yourself.

 

[wanda20]

Thanks for sharing your experiences Wooby. I won't be able to go to my dad's funeral or his bedside. I have been forbidden by both of them. And the letters they sent back to me make it clear that it is all my doing. So I won't be seeing any family, friends etc. When my brother died at age 28, 12 years ago, the funeral date was not published in the paper and the only people that they gave permission to attend was me, my three sisters and his girlfriend. She stood in the background as my mother forbade her to come closer. My mum didn't want her there. That's the sort of woman she is.

I guess I will hear from my sister, who is still talking to him from interstate, when he dies. Both my husband and doctor are not keen on me re-establishing a relationship as they have seen the mental trauma I go through each time I try to have a relationship with them over the years. I guess I was hoping on his deathbed, he might want to see me and my other sister he no longer talks to. But I suspect that is a very, very slim chance. Somehow I am trying to come to terms with that very unsuccessfully. All I keep coming back to in my sadness, is my guilt, and that I must be a bad person to be hated so much by my parents. I will come to terms with that slowly, over time. Thanks all for your advice. I am sure I will posting again in the near future. Being able to share my concerns and feelings with all of you, and being able to listen to your advice and experiences helps me more than you know. Take care all, huggss.

 

[W00BY]

You are not a bad person,

Part of the control people have over others in these situations is information, and our parents are the first people in life we get information from and seek out when we need information.

Therefore when they reject us it is only natural to ask why and getting no answer that makes sense will naturally make us feel somehow we have failed, that there must be something wrong with us.... There's not.

I have had to come to terms with never having the answers of why both my mother and father were violent to me and not my sister, why it was me they placed responsibility on that I could not meet effectively setting me up to fail and why they showed absolutely no concern for my well being or health.

There are many of us out there, since becoming a mother I find it harder to understand because of how I feel about my kids and what I would do to protect them is so far removed from my experiences at the hands of my parents.

I will never get the answers I want and jeezo it screws with me regular but I keep on moving forward, no matter how much we move forward life will remind us of this crap every now and then, this that you are going through now, whilst difficult, will make you more resilient in future, particularly with respect to your family.

Finally after my gran died it left a space where I could contact people in my family I actually wanted to talk to without the fear of her vicious bitter lying and feeling that I was causing trouble for them by speaking to them.

This may be something that also happens for you in the future as the dynamics of your family may change with these events.

I wish you well for what is ahead.

 

[Frazzled]

Hi Wanda. We are in very similiar situations. My father has been really ill and is now staying with my sister, who has been equally abusive as my nm. It is frustrating and extremely difficult to deal with the feelings of not being able to "be there" for our sick fathers'. I recently found out that my father is asking for me and my nm and sister are ignoring his requests. I find it really difficult to go there because of the numerous roadblocks and false accusations towards me. I find I can't even force myself to go there. It's almost like my subconscious won't let my body make that move. I feel for you and I know your frustration and pain. I feel like we are in a situation where anything you do will be wrong even if you feel it's right. I wish I knew what to say to you to help you and I know it's not much of a relief but you are not alone. Take it a day at a time and do what you, and you alone, can live with.

 

[wanda20]

Thanks for your helpful replies Frazzled and Wooby. It's been a while since I posted. I have called my mum since my last post and she has called me. Suffice to say, after her last call 4 weeks ago when I was explaining to her why her phone call at Xmas (where she yellied down the phone she hated me and hoped I burned in hell and hung up) was particularly hurtful and we were going through a bad time because my husband's brother had just committed suicide. She replied, I could care less if his brother committed suicide. After those words, I hung up the phone and blocked her from calling our home again. It was sad, but a huge relief, not waiting for another verbally abusive phone call.

Then on the weekend just past, I get a phone call from my sister in Melbourne (the only family member still talking to her) saying that mum knows you have blocked her number asked me to pass onto you that she hates you and that she cannot believe you have treated her the way you have after all she has done for you. Well, I told my sister, you can tell her that it remains blocked until she no longer verbally abuses me. My sister and I had a long chat on Sunday. She understands my mental health is at a breaking point yet again and I can't go through with it. I just want to see my dad before he dies. I said tell her if she can speak to me civially I will release the block. My sister also mentioned that dad's prosate cancer is now reaching final stages (he is still at home) and he is not eating, in a lot of pain, and almost a skeleton. I cried when I heard this.

My sister then contacted me early this morning to ask me to come pick her up from the airport at 5.30pm as Mum has asked her to come done immediately as dad's health is getting much worse. I said to her, if it is, then she needs to call the ambulance. My sister replied she knows she can ring the ambulance. So I don't know what is going on there. So after my call with my sister I called my mum to try yet again this morning to try to resolve our differences so I can see my dad. My mum over the phone, said Dad does not want to see you, (and he said the same thing on a short letter he sent me some time ago) and mum also said you have left it too long to contact me. I said that's wrong we have been trying to contact each other over the years, we just see things differently and you don't want to accept that. Then she said something particularly nasty, that I cannot remember now, and I hung up the phone.

So I will await the call from my sister that Dad has passed over and I will try some way to reconcile the fact that both my parents hate me and find a way to move forward. I will drop me sister up to my parents place tonight and then leave.

I am so upset and numb inside (at the same time) I don't know what to do with myself. At one stage on the drive to work I thought of committing suicide to get some peace at last. At that stage I think I finally understand why someone would be driven to suicide and the need to make the pain stop permanently. At the moment, all I am doing is waiting to hear my father has passed on. And one of my worst fears comes true. That my parents would die hating me. That may be something you say one can get over in time. But it is something I will always remember.

Thanks for listening.

Wanda

 

[Sonya]

Hi Wanda,

I can relate to your situation. My NM is also the "gatekeeper" of my dad. She won't allow him to answer the phone, visit his kids, etc., unless he has her blessing to do so. It has been this way since she moved back in with him after all of us kids left. She said she divorced him because she hated him (I was 12 and had to take over all of the duties she ran away from), but as soon as all of the kids left, she went back and has been there for 20+ years.

She convinced him to make his will, leaving everything to her, even though her name was taken off the house in the divorce and he got sole custody of us kids (my older sister and I weren't even his, nor were we ever adopted by him). Don't know how she pulled that one off.

My dad is now in his 80's. I know she is waiting for him to die just so she can cuss out all of her kids if we dare show up for his funeral. It's not like she is taking care of him, though. She is almost 10 years younger than he is, but she lays on the couch and barks orders to him to go to the store, mow the yard, feed the animals, etc. all day long. His eyesight is almost gone, yet she sends him to the store late at night when he has no business driving. I know that she prays he will be in a fatal accident. She absolutely despises him and has told me that she would kill him if she knew she wouldn't get caught.

He chooses to be her robot and doesn't visit his kids even though she sends him out several times a day, so he has the opportunity. We all live within a few miles of them.

I will feel bad when he is gone, but he has allowed her to keep us away. One of the last visits at their house was father's day two years ago. My daughter and I went out on the porch to talk to my dad and get away from the attention-hogging NM. I had to BEG my daughter to go with me because she cannot stand her grandmother. We tried to get away by going to the porch with my dad. As soon as we did, my mother brought a chair out and placed it right in front of my dad and sat down. We couldn't even talk to him. Of course, he just sat there and let her block him and talk about how ungrateful her kids are.

It puts us in a terrible spot, but your dad and mine are brain-washed. I can think of no other explanation for staying with a narcissist. They are truly horrible people, and I don't know how anyone can endure their torture for decades.

I can only hope that my dad passes quickly, because the NM won't take care of him if he gets bed-ridden. She will ship him to the nearest nursing home, sell the house, and go on a shopping spree. I'm sure she will leave orders that none of his children are to visit him.

It isn't bad enough that we had non-mothers and enabling fathers. Now, we have to deal with the fact that we can't even see our fathers without seeing the non-mothers as well. We can't even say a proper goodbye when the time comes. My heart goes out to you.

Sonya

 

[Sonya]

Dear Wanda,

Your post makes me very sad. I would not let my mother stop me if I wanted to see my dad one last time. I would totally ignore anything she had to say and sit with my dad.

Do you think she might get violent if you did go visit him?

Can you even be sure that your dad wrote the note about not wanting to see you? She may have forced him to write it.

Your mother is rejoicing in the fact that she has final say over who can and cannot see your dad at this point.

Your sister has no business passing on the nasty messages from your mother.

I am just saying that come hell or high water, my NM will not stop me if I choose to see my dad one last time. It wouldn't be pretty, but she is nothing but a toothless lion and her roars no longer intimidate me.

I don't want you to regret that you let her stand in the way of seeing your dad. It is your choice, but it makes me very angry that she has done this to you.

 

[wanda20]

Thanks very much for your replies Sonya. They have helped. The note dad sent me to leave him in peace was in his handwriting. And my mum's usual line when I lived with her is you send what she wants or her loved is withdrawn. So it was probably at her insistence. But Dad has told me over the phone in past that he hates me for upsetting mum. I am sure he has been brainwashed as he loves her and has a co-dependent relationship.

Dad is currently at home, not at hospital so I just cannot demand to see him as she won't let me through the door. Last time I went to see how they were a couple of years ago at my cousin's insistence they would not let me through the front door. Dad made it obvious he didn't want me there. I did send a "goodbye and thank you letter to him" on Fathers Day where I said that I was disappointed that mum wouldn't let me see him. That's when mum fired back a letter to me stating everything I had said was false. Dad's letter followed hers.

As I read what I am typing I can see that there is no way in hell, I will be allowed to say goodbye. She won't let me through the door, and he will say the same thing. I have no idea if she will get violent, but Dad will stand by whatever she says. That is the terribly sad thing. I am really angry Sonya. I have sent an SMS (text) to my sisters mobile. She is staying with them at the moment. I asked her to ask Dad, when mum is not around, if he wants to see me before he dies. I will await her reply. If he says no, then there is not much I can do. She texted me last night that he is very frail, lost a lot of weight and sleeps most of the time.

---------- Post Merged at 03:44 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 02:45 PM ----------

Has anyone been through an experience where you were denied access to your dying father (he's at home) by your narcissistic mother and would be willing to share how you dealt with it? My dad is in the end stages of prostate cancer.

Wanda

 

[Sonya]

Wanda,

Would your sister possibly let you in when your Mom leaves? Surely she leaves at times to grocery shop, get her hair done, etc.? If nothing else, I would call the authorities and say that I needed to do a welfare check on my Dad. They would accompany you, and you could at least see your Dad.

You can't be certain that she is taking good care of him, and since she won't let you see him, you have every right to demand to know that he is getting the care he needs. I know my NM would not take care of my Dad if he got sick. People like her are incapable of caring for anyone.

She will get angry and probably never speak to you again, but I don't think that is really an issue at this point since you have pretty much resigned yourself to the fact that there is no real relationship with her anyway. I certainly understand that.

I hope you can figure out a way to see him if you really want to. So what if she gets mad? She's already mad.

What she is doing to you is beyond belief to me.

My NM will probably try do the same thing if my dad gets sick. I will call the authorities if that is the only way I can see him and I choose to do so.

I hope you hear from your sister soon. Please ask her if she would be willing to let you see your Dad if and when your mom leaves the house.

Sonya

 

[W00BY]

I really am stumped for something to say!

I find it odd that your sister would be behaving like this it's almost as if she is the dressing on this awful salad.

Your sister clearly feels the need to do as she is told and pass on your mothers comments whilst disregarding to some extent how not only this will make you feel, but also what you are yourself confiding emotionally to your sister about this situation.

You need to look at this for what it is which at an incredibly emotional and distressing time.

The fact your mother still sought to have jibes at you through your sister even though you had blocked her phone number says A LOT!

Your mother is deliberately trying to hurt you... You have shown strength and restraint she clearly lacks in this situation.

Read back through your posts you will see the themes at play here as you are describing them.

Contact with mother... abuse, hurt and trying to make you feel as if you are the wrong one.. casting up anything possible to validate her view of the situation.

Your sister intervening apparently, being understanding yet still causing you more pain and keeping that channel of pain open between you and your parents.

And finally both of them reporting on your fathers demise but you are being told he does not want to see you AND that this is YOUR fault!!!

Take a step back from this think about it from the point of view of say... it being a friend who was telling you all this...

What would you say to them?

Your are suffering quite significant verbal and emotional abuse from everyone of these interactions and that is your sister included!

I wonder if on your mum and sisters part they are both hurting and as your place within the family has been to be stood all over this is why again it is happening

You are an abuse receiving vent for both of them.

I feel it is incredibly unfair of your sister to expect you to pick her up and for you to drop her knowing the position you are in and I feel you need to protect yourself from this, it is passive aggression.

Yet I understand your need for that connection and this may provide you with a painful sliver of just that.

There is no easy answer here but again I would urge you to think as carefully and rationally as possible in this situation towards your own needs and your long term mental health and well being!

I used to drive my grandad to Christmas dinner at my sisters where my mother, brother, grandad niece and nephew would all be sat together yet I wasn't allowed and my mother thought this was an okay thing to ask me to do.

I can't answer to this day why I did those kind of things, but I can tell you now I don't anymore and it's far healthier for me.

You need to focus on YOUR grieving process not everyone else because you are already grieving for a family you can't be with... for the mother you can't have... ultimately you father and all those things we all want from family ties...

You have showed enormous restraint and resilience beyond comprehension and I implore you to look after yourself at this point because your family clearly won't.

 

[Sonya]

Very well put, Wooby. The sister is just as guilty as the Mom in this game. They are both torturing you, Wanda, and who knows what your Dad is actually saying at this point? Even if he begged to see you, the mom and sister wouldn't pass the message along.

I let my parents go for my the sake of my own mental health. They were driving me to the brink, just like Wanda's. I had to grieve for the relationships that were never going to be. My husband, daughter, and friends are my family and that is that.

At some point we must remove ourselves from the toxic people in our lives and never turn back. They feed off of making others live's miserable and have absolutely no conscience about it.

On the one hand, if it is really important to see your dad, I think you should demand to do so, but I wonder if the emotional damage the mom and sister (and maybe your dad) will do, would make you feel even worse than you already do.

I agree with Wooby that you need to look after yourself first and foremost.

Sonya