healthbound
Member
Is there a difference between an eating disorder and an addiction to food (or an overeater)?
Thanks in advance
Thanks in advance
- Thread starter healthbound
- Start date
braveheart
Member
Re: disorder or addiction?
In my view, an eating disorder is where there is any difficulty around food - using it to cope with emotions and feelings either by restricting intake or overeating or eating and then purging. Each has it's own complex psychology surrounding it, unique to the sufferer and their life experience, often to do with comfort, control etc. Addiction to food is part of this, but not the core of the problem, as I see it.
In my view, an eating disorder is where there is any difficulty around food - using it to cope with emotions and feelings either by restricting intake or overeating or eating and then purging. Each has it's own complex psychology surrounding it, unique to the sufferer and their life experience, often to do with comfort, control etc. Addiction to food is part of this, but not the core of the problem, as I see it.
David Baxter PhD
Late Founder
Compulsive eating isn't really an addiction. It is compulsive behavior and it is treatable.
healthbound
Member
What's the difference between a compulsion and an addiction?
I found the .pdf about eating disorders and have started reading it. I'm sure I'll have more questions in a bit. I'm trying to figure out where to reach out for the most appropriate support (eg overeaters anonymous, nutritionist, or other eating disorder support group/person).
Thanks
I found the .pdf about eating disorders and have started reading it. I'm sure I'll have more questions in a bit. I'm trying to figure out where to reach out for the most appropriate support (eg overeaters anonymous, nutritionist, or other eating disorder support group/person).
Thanks
braveheart
Member
What's behind it for you? I would say that's the important place to start, find that out, and go from there to find the best kind of help for the root difficulty/cause.
healthbound
Member
Weeeeell...great question.
I don't like how I'm using food and I don't like how it's affecting me. I'm gaining weight and after I binge I feel horrible -physically, mentally and emotionally. I've always used foods to "comfort" myself...but in moderation. However, over the last 3 years, it seems like it's been getting progressively worse and has been really bothering me. It's probably bothering me more and more as I gain more and more, lol.
Sooooo, I began reading about a few different solutions and that's when questions started to arise. The thought of giving up sugar or complex carbs terrifies me. But the thought of trying to eat them in moderation terrifies me even more. Well, maybe it doesn't terrify me but rather, I find it difficult to even imagine eating those foods on occasion and only in small portions.
....more later gotta go pick up son
...Am back.
Anyway, I've just been noticing that my behaviors and thoughts around food are becoming more and more excessive and I'm frustrated because I feel like I'm out of control. I have brought it up on occasion with my therapist and will continue to do so, but am feeling like I need additional support around this issue.
I went to a Weight Watchers meeting last week and am not sure if I will go back or not. I chose WW because I heard they are one of the most balanced and realistic diets, but I struggled with it over the last 7 days and wonder if another diet might do more harm than good.
Anyway I'm frustrated about not being able to "get a handle" on my thoughts and behaviors around food...hence my post.
I think I have binge eating disorder (based on what I've read) and would love to hear from anyone who has struggled with this. Where did you find support and how do you handle it?
Thanks in advance.
---P.S. I should probably point out that I've used various tactics (or substances) over the years to...to...to....hm...distract, divert, punish, avoid etc. I'll continue working on what motivates that process, but it seems like there is a line that gets crossed when the tactic or substance becomes less of a tactic or substance and more of an addiction. I bring this up because I'm guessing that my relationship with food will change as I change, but it feels like it's crossed the line and is unstoppable/unmanageable and is being propelled by more than just my need for avoidance. Does that make sense?
I don't like how I'm using food and I don't like how it's affecting me. I'm gaining weight and after I binge I feel horrible -physically, mentally and emotionally. I've always used foods to "comfort" myself...but in moderation. However, over the last 3 years, it seems like it's been getting progressively worse and has been really bothering me. It's probably bothering me more and more as I gain more and more, lol.
Sooooo, I began reading about a few different solutions and that's when questions started to arise. The thought of giving up sugar or complex carbs terrifies me. But the thought of trying to eat them in moderation terrifies me even more. Well, maybe it doesn't terrify me but rather, I find it difficult to even imagine eating those foods on occasion and only in small portions.
....more later gotta go pick up son
...Am back.
Anyway, I've just been noticing that my behaviors and thoughts around food are becoming more and more excessive and I'm frustrated because I feel like I'm out of control. I have brought it up on occasion with my therapist and will continue to do so, but am feeling like I need additional support around this issue.
I went to a Weight Watchers meeting last week and am not sure if I will go back or not. I chose WW because I heard they are one of the most balanced and realistic diets, but I struggled with it over the last 7 days and wonder if another diet might do more harm than good.
Anyway I'm frustrated about not being able to "get a handle" on my thoughts and behaviors around food...hence my post.
I think I have binge eating disorder (based on what I've read) and would love to hear from anyone who has struggled with this. Where did you find support and how do you handle it?
Thanks in advance.
---P.S. I should probably point out that I've used various tactics (or substances) over the years to...to...to....hm...distract, divert, punish, avoid etc. I'll continue working on what motivates that process, but it seems like there is a line that gets crossed when the tactic or substance becomes less of a tactic or substance and more of an addiction. I bring this up because I'm guessing that my relationship with food will change as I change, but it feels like it's crossed the line and is unstoppable/unmanageable and is being propelled by more than just my need for avoidance. Does that make sense?
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I have issues with food also. When upset, I look (or looked) to food for a fix, for comfort. Problem is, it's like a drug: makes you feel when you ingest, but then, you feel just as upset + upset over eating stuff you shouldn't.
I tried various diets, and achieved success. the problem with diets is that most of them are not sustainable in life. You can do them for a while but as soon as you stop, you're right back where you started. I even tried metabolic diet (under doctors supervision) where I had to give up carbs and sugar!! :yikes: I lost some weight but I felt awful. LOL Not only that, I had a doctor that had a preset amount you're supposed to loose and if I didn't, she'd right away accuse me of cheating or eating stuff I'm not supposed to (and let me tell you, the list was loooooong). Last visit to her office got me very upset at her unprofessional behavior and her accusations. So, I quit. I went home and I had carbs...Lots of them!
Anyways, right now I'm trying to get back on track. I find that one way that heps me control my eating is learning to identify triggers and dealing with them directly rather then through food. It's tough. One one hand you get to dig into deep psychological and possibly painful issues that can tear you up inside OR have a piece of cake. hmmm....
Yesterday I got some bad news which made me into a basket case and wouldn't you know it -- I thought of food. But....drank a liter of water instead. Anyways, I don't have a magic trick, I just try and try again and try not to beat myself up too much if I don't do as well as I hoped. If you find a way, I hope you can share it. I'd love to be able to control it also.
I tried various diets, and achieved success. the problem with diets is that most of them are not sustainable in life. You can do them for a while but as soon as you stop, you're right back where you started. I even tried metabolic diet (under doctors supervision) where I had to give up carbs and sugar!! :yikes: I lost some weight but I felt awful. LOL Not only that, I had a doctor that had a preset amount you're supposed to loose and if I didn't, she'd right away accuse me of cheating or eating stuff I'm not supposed to (and let me tell you, the list was loooooong). Last visit to her office got me very upset at her unprofessional behavior and her accusations. So, I quit. I went home and I had carbs...Lots of them!
Anyways, right now I'm trying to get back on track. I find that one way that heps me control my eating is learning to identify triggers and dealing with them directly rather then through food. It's tough. One one hand you get to dig into deep psychological and possibly painful issues that can tear you up inside OR have a piece of cake. hmmm....
Yesterday I got some bad news which made me into a basket case and wouldn't you know it -- I thought of food. But....drank a liter of water instead. Anyways, I don't have a magic trick, I just try and try again and try not to beat myself up too much if I don't do as well as I hoped. If you find a way, I hope you can share it. I'd love to be able to control it also.
Wow this is really hitting home for me. This is the exact issue that I am discussing in therapy and one that I have been attempting for years NOT to talk about. I am realizing that there are so many different aspects that go along with this and most of it don't have much to do with food at all.
HB, reading your posts is like reading exactly what I would have have written...I am sorry that you feel the same way but it is encouraging to know that I am not alone and wanted to let you know that you are not alone either. I could especially relate when you said:
There is so much more that I could say about the trials and tribulations of the multiple diets etc. and I hope to write more later but gotta run for now.....pm me anytime if you want to chat HB
HB, reading your posts is like reading exactly what I would have have written...I am sorry that you feel the same way but it is encouraging to know that I am not alone and wanted to let you know that you are not alone either. I could especially relate when you said:
There is so much more that I could say about the trials and tribulations of the multiple diets etc. and I hope to write more later but gotta run for now.....pm me anytime if you want to chat HB
healthbound
Member
Hey everyone,
Just thought I'd provide an update to the thread I started and then bailed on, lol!
I'm not getting on the computer as much as I used to, so my posts are few and far between. Anyway, I've been trying two techniques that seem to be allowing for some positive change with my relationship to food. The first is lemon water. Yup. Lemon water. I buy lemons by the bag (I try to buy organic when I can) and use about one per day. I cut one in half and squeeze the juice into a glass of water at least twice a day. I find it difficult to eat the "binge foods" when I'm drinking the lemon water (chocolate and lemons...ewwww ) but I still feel like I'm consuming something special/different/comforting. Other great things about lemon water are that it's alkaline and it's cleansing (even though lemon is acidic, after it is digested it becomes alkaline). These are both excellent reasons to drink it since I have GERD and always feel like I'm polluting my body with crap.
The second thing that is making a difference consciousness. I'm trying to be more conscious of my pattern/cycle with food. Especially how I feel after I binge. So for example, instead of telling myself how much of a loser I am for eating so much again, I try to accept that I ate too much, acknowledge why I did it and then pay attention to what I'm experiencing as a result (physically, mentally and emotionally). I have noticed how sick I feel (nausea) and how my face gets flushed and I become too hot. I also notice that my stomach becomes uncomfortably bloated and hurts. I notice that I can't seem to get comfortable in a sitting, standing OR laying position. I notice how brutally I talk to myself...how I berate myself with insults (and promises of how I'll never do it again and how I'm going to diet to make up for it etc. etc. etc.). Then I notice I feel angry...then guilty...then...sad. And that's when I seem to really connect with what I'm actually doing to myself. That makes it more difficult to do it again.
It's not a quick fix, but it seems to be working. I still over eat, but I don't' seem to be doing it as much or as harshly. The more I pay attention to how I feel, the more empathetic I become towards myself. I understand why I would want to numb-out with food, but I also understand that it is really hurting me. Then I wonder if maybe I could try feeling whatever I'm feeling next time around instead of trying to stifle it with food. I mean, how hard could it be?
It's sad that we hurt ourselves so much. I really "get" why I do it, but maybe I'm just not comfortable with hurting myself so much anymore.
Anyway...now I'm getting sappy and rambling (but what would a post of mine be without any ramblings?).
How bout you guys? Finding any tips/tricks? What's been going on in your world?
-healthbound.
Just thought I'd provide an update to the thread I started and then bailed on, lol!
I'm not getting on the computer as much as I used to, so my posts are few and far between. Anyway, I've been trying two techniques that seem to be allowing for some positive change with my relationship to food. The first is lemon water. Yup. Lemon water. I buy lemons by the bag (I try to buy organic when I can) and use about one per day. I cut one in half and squeeze the juice into a glass of water at least twice a day. I find it difficult to eat the "binge foods" when I'm drinking the lemon water (chocolate and lemons...ewwww ) but I still feel like I'm consuming something special/different/comforting. Other great things about lemon water are that it's alkaline and it's cleansing (even though lemon is acidic, after it is digested it becomes alkaline). These are both excellent reasons to drink it since I have GERD and always feel like I'm polluting my body with crap.
The second thing that is making a difference consciousness. I'm trying to be more conscious of my pattern/cycle with food. Especially how I feel after I binge. So for example, instead of telling myself how much of a loser I am for eating so much again, I try to accept that I ate too much, acknowledge why I did it and then pay attention to what I'm experiencing as a result (physically, mentally and emotionally). I have noticed how sick I feel (nausea) and how my face gets flushed and I become too hot. I also notice that my stomach becomes uncomfortably bloated and hurts. I notice that I can't seem to get comfortable in a sitting, standing OR laying position. I notice how brutally I talk to myself...how I berate myself with insults (and promises of how I'll never do it again and how I'm going to diet to make up for it etc. etc. etc.). Then I notice I feel angry...then guilty...then...sad. And that's when I seem to really connect with what I'm actually doing to myself. That makes it more difficult to do it again.
It's not a quick fix, but it seems to be working. I still over eat, but I don't' seem to be doing it as much or as harshly. The more I pay attention to how I feel, the more empathetic I become towards myself. I understand why I would want to numb-out with food, but I also understand that it is really hurting me. Then I wonder if maybe I could try feeling whatever I'm feeling next time around instead of trying to stifle it with food. I mean, how hard could it be?
It's sad that we hurt ourselves so much. I really "get" why I do it, but maybe I'm just not comfortable with hurting myself so much anymore.
Anyway...now I'm getting sappy and rambling (but what would a post of mine be without any ramblings?).
How bout you guys? Finding any tips/tricks? What's been going on in your world?
-healthbound.
Healthbound,
It really sounds like you have made some changes that are working well for you. I am happy to hear that. I can relate to trying to be "aware" of what I am saying to myself when I have a binge or use food as comfort as well as what feelings I am trying to avoid by using food. It definitely is a difficult thing to do but I know for me it is a step in the right direction just being able to have this awareness. It sounds like it is a good step for you as well and I just want to say keep it up :2thumbs:
Take care
:hug: :hug:
P.S. - As for tips/tricks...what I have found recently that has been helpful for me is (if I can) before I eat to ask myself why I am eating. Is it because I am actually hungry, is it because the clock says that it is time to eat, is it because I am having feelings that I want to avoid etc. If I can identify why I am eating it helps with not beating myself up as much when I do eat. Just starting to use this technique and it seems to be helping. Thought that I would share it with you
It really sounds like you have made some changes that are working well for you. I am happy to hear that. I can relate to trying to be "aware" of what I am saying to myself when I have a binge or use food as comfort as well as what feelings I am trying to avoid by using food. It definitely is a difficult thing to do but I know for me it is a step in the right direction just being able to have this awareness. It sounds like it is a good step for you as well and I just want to say keep it up :2thumbs:
Take care
:hug: :hug:
P.S. - As for tips/tricks...what I have found recently that has been helpful for me is (if I can) before I eat to ask myself why I am eating. Is it because I am actually hungry, is it because the clock says that it is time to eat, is it because I am having feelings that I want to avoid etc. If I can identify why I am eating it helps with not beating myself up as much when I do eat. Just starting to use this technique and it seems to be helping. Thought that I would share it with you
healthbound
Member
Thanks Halo
We'll see how it goes.
I laughed after reading your tip/trick since I've been focusing on interrupting my eating pattern (with awareness) AFTER I've binged. It makes much more sense to do it BEFORE though, lol.
We'll see how it goes.
I laughed after reading your tip/trick since I've been focusing on interrupting my eating pattern (with awareness) AFTER I've binged. It makes much more sense to do it BEFORE though, lol.
In all honesty, I have done it both times (the awareness). Sometimes I am able to be aware of my eating pattern with thoughts and feelings the I am having before a binge and then there are other times the binge happens almost too fast for me to have any real knowledge of what is going on and it is only then afterwards that I am able to reflect back on what I was thinking and feeling.
Either way the key is to become aware hopefully before but if not, then definitely afterwards, which will hopefully give more insight into the "why" the binge feels/felt necessary at all.
Good luck :goodluck: and I will be thinking of you as we both progress down a similar path :hug:
Either way the key is to become aware hopefully before but if not, then definitely afterwards, which will hopefully give more insight into the "why" the binge feels/felt necessary at all.
Good luck :goodluck: and I will be thinking of you as we both progress down a similar path :hug:
healthbound
Member
I was going to start a new thread when I saw this one I started a while back. I had forgotten it. Funny how my mind "forgets" sometimes.
Anyway, I'm back to struggling with food again. I ended up going on a very restricted diet for about 6 weeks and it worked very well in terms of losing weight and not eating sugar or processed carbs. But it was so strict that it was impossible to stay on for long. So, I started to stray from it and eventually got back to full fledged overeating on a daily basis.
I am feeling very out of control and very ashamed of my eating behaviors. It's really bothering me. I've tried to get a handle on it again over the last few weeks but manage to only be able to sustain being off sugar for 2 days. By day 3 I eat cake or chocolate or pie or whatever again. And that starts my high-calorie-food-intake-eating again. I hate it.
I notice I feel angry about struggling with a substance I HAVE TO consume on a daily basis. I hate food. Well, I hate my struggle with it. I am experiencing a real addiction to particular foods (sugar) and can't seem to get off it. I think about it ALL the time. I can't focus on conversations I'm in because I'm thinking about sugar (not sugar itself, but the foods that I like to eat containing the sugar). I'm either figuring out how I will get it and eat it without them knowing or how I can't stand not having it or how guilty I feel for having just eaten it.
And while I write this, I feel incredible embarrassment, shame and guilt. I feel stupid. Stupid for not being able to get a handle on it and stupid cause it's FOOD!! It's embarrassing that I can't control it. It's not like it's crack. It's cake. Geeze.
And how come I can't just feel ok with the way I am right now? Other people like me - why don't I like myself? OK, going on a bit of a tangent now, lol.
Anyway, I'll keep talking to my therapist about it and I guess I'll check if there are some 12 step meetings in my area. But that's a bit of a challenge too since I don't even know what I "have". I just know I have a serious struggle with food and I can't seem to get a handle on it. Urgh.
Anyway, I'm back to struggling with food again. I ended up going on a very restricted diet for about 6 weeks and it worked very well in terms of losing weight and not eating sugar or processed carbs. But it was so strict that it was impossible to stay on for long. So, I started to stray from it and eventually got back to full fledged overeating on a daily basis.
I am feeling very out of control and very ashamed of my eating behaviors. It's really bothering me. I've tried to get a handle on it again over the last few weeks but manage to only be able to sustain being off sugar for 2 days. By day 3 I eat cake or chocolate or pie or whatever again. And that starts my high-calorie-food-intake-eating again. I hate it.
I notice I feel angry about struggling with a substance I HAVE TO consume on a daily basis. I hate food. Well, I hate my struggle with it. I am experiencing a real addiction to particular foods (sugar) and can't seem to get off it. I think about it ALL the time. I can't focus on conversations I'm in because I'm thinking about sugar (not sugar itself, but the foods that I like to eat containing the sugar). I'm either figuring out how I will get it and eat it without them knowing or how I can't stand not having it or how guilty I feel for having just eaten it.
And while I write this, I feel incredible embarrassment, shame and guilt. I feel stupid. Stupid for not being able to get a handle on it and stupid cause it's FOOD!! It's embarrassing that I can't control it. It's not like it's crack. It's cake. Geeze.
And how come I can't just feel ok with the way I am right now? Other people like me - why don't I like myself? OK, going on a bit of a tangent now, lol.
Anyway, I'll keep talking to my therapist about it and I guess I'll check if there are some 12 step meetings in my area. But that's a bit of a challenge too since I don't even know what I "have". I just know I have a serious struggle with food and I can't seem to get a handle on it. Urgh.
Meggylou
Member
I too have some trouble with food. It's weird for me because I don't know exactly what it is. Which sounds ridiculous. I get sore stomachs really easily and will eat to soothe it, my esophagus gets spasms...sometimes I try to eat to soothe that, rarely does it help, BUT when it does it so SO worth it, because the pain from an esophageal spasm is out of this world bad....I usually end up puking from it, writhing on the floor screaming, it's really bad. I also LOVE junk food, can't get enough of the stuff, I think about it all the time, how I can get food, what do I feel like eating...usually croissants, donuts, muffins, gummy candy, those are my favourites. It's so frustrating to not be sure if I'm hungry for real, or if my stomach is just making grumbles as it digests...I just can't tell, haven't been able to tell the difference since I was probably 14. I even had my gall bladder removed when I was 23, thought that it would help me, I had been having problems with it causing pain (I had stones) and I would eat thinking it was hunger pains, no go, didn't help with my indecisiveness at all. I just can't properly tell when I'm actually hungry or not, and it's hard for me to stop eating. When we go out I want to eat my meal...usually am "full" or feel that way after about half (I drink lots of fluids while I eat, I can't eat without drinking) then I still want dessert and will eat it all..feeling sick and bloated afterwards, but satiated (yummy dessert) and yet kinda pathetic and gross.
GAH! it's so frustrating.
GAH! it's so frustrating.
healthbound
Member
Hey meggylou. I relate to much of what you wrote.
I actually looked up 12 Step programs in my area that deal with food and am going to check one out tomorrow night. I've never been to one before. The one I'm going to is called Anorexics and Bulimics Anonymous. There is also another one on another night called Overeaters Anonymous which I will also check out.
I feel embarrassed about my problems with food, but I also believe my problems with food are slowly killing me and making my depression worse. It's really interfering with my life and I can't stand it anymore. Even as I write this I feel sick (from eating too much) but am seriously considering the ice cream in the freezer. It's nutty and clearly, I need help. The more I read about the various eating disorders, the more I realize my challenges are not unique and that there are many many others who experience similar struggles. I'm hopeful I will find some direction/solutions at these meetings I'm going to check out. I'll keep you guys posted
I actually looked up 12 Step programs in my area that deal with food and am going to check one out tomorrow night. I've never been to one before. The one I'm going to is called Anorexics and Bulimics Anonymous. There is also another one on another night called Overeaters Anonymous which I will also check out.
I feel embarrassed about my problems with food, but I also believe my problems with food are slowly killing me and making my depression worse. It's really interfering with my life and I can't stand it anymore. Even as I write this I feel sick (from eating too much) but am seriously considering the ice cream in the freezer. It's nutty and clearly, I need help. The more I read about the various eating disorders, the more I realize my challenges are not unique and that there are many many others who experience similar struggles. I'm hopeful I will find some direction/solutions at these meetings I'm going to check out. I'll keep you guys posted
healthbound
Member
Update: didn't go to the meeting, lol. I'll let you know how it goes if I get to one tho.
Meggylou
Member
yes let me know how it goes when you get to one.
I'm not doing much about it right now, just trying to eat when I think I'm really actually hungry, and not snacking tooo much....though I love eating, I can't stop snacking. gah!
I'm not doing much about it right now, just trying to eat when I think I'm really actually hungry, and not snacking tooo much....though I love eating, I can't stop snacking. gah!
healthbound
Member
hey meggylou. The book that I've been reading, It's not about the Food suggests listening to our bodies and not restricting ourselves. If I am ever able to get to that point I'll be very happy. I am finding it is rather difficult and I need a LOT of practice. Did it take you a while to get into the habit of listening to your body?
I am not used to respecting my body's cues. My mind's agenda takes over and now I can barely identify when I'm actually hungry or full. Guess it just takes time.
I am not used to respecting my body's cues. My mind's agenda takes over and now I can barely identify when I'm actually hungry or full. Guess it just takes time.
Hi there - this is a bit of an older thread but it wow - it says exactly what I would say, if I ever had the courage to talk about food. I'll try to say a few things now...given there seem to be people out there that *are* having a similar struggle and don't really know how to label their issue either.
I was anorexic for a short period many years ago but have not been of a weight that would qualify me as such since that time.
I have a lot of trouble controlling what I eat and find that once I start, I cannot stop. I don't know whether this is my body's reaction to the anorexia many years ago - that it can't forget that at one time, it was put in starvation mode, so now, every time it gets food, it needs to pile it in in preparation/anticipation of the next famine ....even though that "next" famine has never come? I don't know how long the body "remembers". I try to get around this by primarily eating low calorie foods - so I can eat and eat and eat and eat (until I am so bloated I feel sick) but still only do minimal damage. But as I get older (I know your metabolism slows as you age), it is getting harder and harder not to put on more weight. And as I get more depressed with the weight gain, I stray from my approved "safe foods" and delve into the carbs/sugars.... And with my lack of control, once I start eating, I can't stop - and binging on high carb/sugar foods DOES do incredible damage, unlike safe foods.
Because I eat so much, whether it be "safe" foods, or the forbidden high calorie/fat ones, I am ashamed to eat in public - I will only eat by myself, with no one watching. I would be absolutely horrified if anyone ever found out how much I ate. I try to exercise as well, to compensate for how much I eat...but again, as I age, it gets so much harder and I am so much more tired than I was in the past.
I find having to deal with food 24/7 and never being able to escape it unbearable. I would not commit suicide, but frankly, I would rather be dead than have to constantly deal with food. For me, it definitely isn't about physical appearance or society expectations, it is about personal control. I need it and I am losing it more and more as time goes on and that is something I just can't handle. I don't want to be anorexic again (that was a hell all of its own) but my head needs to see certain bones in the mirror in order for me to have some sense of mental peace. And I need that mental peace so it can ground me when I have to deal with the rest of my life.
Ok...I'm done. Phewf. I said it.
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