Emptiness

[AmZ]

I don't know who I am and where I'm going - that's pretty accurate for me. I feel deep emptiness. My first psychologist said that I have a lack of sense of self.

How am I meant to build myself up from what feels like nothingness? What is the treatment for this criteria? My therapists will never address this and it makes me feel even more hopeless.

What would you say to a patient that has these feelings Dr Baxter?
Thx.

 

[Banned]

I don't know the treatment strategy for that but it's something that ive identified as a goal in my own therapy. I don't have a sense of self, a strong self-concept, or a feeling of belonging. I don't know if that's part of BPD or not because we're still figuring out my diagnoses.

regardless, there has to be a starting point and I would think if you identify this as a goal with your therapy team they can give you specifics regarding your treatment framework. Dr. B might be able to provide some general insight too. I'm not far enough into therapy to know much more but I guess I just wanted to say that this is not uncommon.

 

[Cat Dancer]

I don't have BPD and I struggle with the same thing. Plus I have always struggled with depression so I don't know what it is like to feel "normal." I don't know what I'm trying to get to or what my goal will feel like.

 

[forgetmenot]

You are not nothingness though AmZ so you start from where you are now and with therapy you slowly find out who you are and what your wants are. Small steps with your therapist hun THat is why we have our therapist to help us see more then what we are seeing about ourselves Everyone feels like they are nothing at one time in their lives but it is not true hun we are all someone we are all special and we all matter hugs to you

 

[AmZ]

Thank you.

I don't know. It's difficult to describe. The deep down empty feeling.

I, for example, don't know where my place is in this world. It's not in England and now I'm struggling here, life isn't easy here.

Like I have mentioned before, my first psychologist that diagnosed me with BPD said that I have a lack of sense of self. And I feel that totally.

I feel like there are so many things missing in my life.
I have no friends so am totally lonely, and I find it difficult to make friends, no career, no direction, dreams, aspirations. I feel like an empty shell.

And it leads me to thoughts of not wanting to live. It's really a deep horrible feeling.

 

[MHealthJo]

No friends Amz?

What are we? Chop liver?



The things you describe will come as by-products of better mental health and a better relationship with yourself. In the meantime you can certainly take steps to pursue them, though; just remember that some things can be a bit harder to "make happen" during severe periods of illness - any kind of illness. At least, they may not look exactly the same as they might do in a context of "perfect health".

Maybe they don't have to???

Be careful of all-or-nothing thinking and a host of other distortions and thinking styles here. Not sure if you have read the AvPD articles here; well worth it...

Sometimes we may have to adjust our "ideal" view of the things we want, these things we view as the "keys to happiness"...

At least, for a time.

Very often then, only after accepting our current situation and the uncertainty of the future, and letting go of this "need" for things to be a certain way... letting what will be, be...

... we then discover that these things were not really the "keys to happiness" at all.

The ultimate thing to try to "get" in life, which makes the experience of life "good" and not empty, luckily is something that we have the ability to impact - no matter where we live, what we're doing, or any of those other "variables":

A better relationship with the self.

This is within your power Amz. With progress in therapy, optimal treatments and work on your part, IT WILL COME - and other good things with it.

xx

 

[AmZ]

The feelings of emptiness are excruciating.

Maybe once I get out of the depression I will start to think and act differently. I think the BPD and depression has been going on longer than I realise. I've been self-harming since the age of thirteen for example. I've had problems for a lot of years that I thought were 'normal' so never told anyone.

I so desire to be a person that has friends (asides from virtual friends ), that has a career or job they like and find interesting, that maybe has a family of their own, with hobbies and interests.

But I feel ever so far away from that and I'm nearly 28 years old. I'm so sad at wasting the best years of my life, even though I don't think it was my own fault. Regrets still suck though.

I don't know how I can get started and restart my life again. Like I say, maybe I have to wait for depression to lift and carry on working very hard with that.

Until then, the BPD and emptiness is a killer. Or near abouts that.

 

[MHealthJo]

Sorry you're suffering babe.

Next time you are about to blog/write etc, feeling adrift, empty, directionless, but having the energy to use your iphone - I wonder if you could instead convince youself to try one of the exercises in your workbook?

Or, there's also online classes and things you can start here:

Borderline Personality Disorder Email Lists - A.J. Mahari, Author, Mental Health Coach - Life Coach and Strategist

and here:

DBT Self Help

Why not sign up and make a start? It might help you feel involved in something, feel a sense of purpose and direction, and also accomplishment...

You'll also be learning skils to help you get through the tough times, but also get some direction going... building up your sense of self, to combat the emptiness... and only you can do that.

Being a sporty girl (which is still part of you - its just masked by illness right now), you'll know the old Nike catchphrase... "Just do it!"


Thinking of you over the weekend...
xx

 

[Banned]

You sound like me at 28. If you wait for the depression to lift you will wait forever. You have to work at your depression and you will have to work for the rest of your life at keeping it under control. It sucks but that's the way it is.

I spent a while regretting the years I wasted being depressed and out of control, but then I realized I was just wasting more time dwelling on the past. Instead I chose to get refocused on the future and go forward, one step at a time. Stop focusing on all the things holding you back and on how everyone else is wronging you, and start making a concerted effort to do things that add value to your life. It's a lot of work but nothing is going to just happen.

A few years ago I did some online counseling because I wasn't really in the mood to do face-to-face at the time. I've been going back and rereading some of the material I posted then and discovered that a) I was really, really angry then, with everyone - myself, my therapist, my family, my friends, and life, and b) I had absolutely no interest in getting better or doing anything at all to change my situation. As I read through I can see the patterns of destructiveness and despair I had gotten myself into and why nothing changed. It wasn't very different from where you are now, except I never had the courage to go to the hospital.

My life is amazingly different now, but I worked my ask off every day for several years to get here, put myself back in therapy recently, changed my meds, made friends, found some hobbies, and am in a place to work on some more difficult topics in therapy. It's baby steps though. Rome wasn't conquered in a day.

 

[AmZ]

Great advice. Thank you. I really appreciate it. And to 'hear it from the horses mouth' too is a real bonus. I love hearing stories of hope and getting some advice along the way certainly helps too.

I feel so entangled in this mess, I really do. I wish that I could see some hope for myself... I feel so far gone already. I don't know what will be the answer of me getting out of this, I can't wait for a magical spell, I know... I honestly don't know if I'm trying or not. I feel that bad that it feels like I've given up to be frank. But I guess I'm not going to get anywhere without wanting to? So what's the answer to changing that?

 

[Cat Dancer]

I saw that you posted Marsha Linehan's story. Does reading about her story and all that she went through give you hope? She really went through a lot.

 

[AmZ]

I saw that you posted Marsha Linehan's story. Does reading about her story and all that she went through give you hope? She really went through a lot.

I'm eager to start the DBT but they said if we go with the ECT then they only want me starting the DBT after receiving the ECT treatments.

From what I've read, DBT is helping out a hell of lot of people who suffer from BPD so I do have some hope that this therapy will help me with hopefully the self harming and suicidal thoughts/close to doing things. My therapist said it can help with depression too so I'm even more eager to get started on it.

It's just that I'm going to have to be in the hospital for many more months whilst doing the therapy. It's tough being here on one hand but on the other, I can't succeed in being out of the hospital. So I need to be here. Catch 22?

 

[Banned]

Great advice. Thank you. I really appreciate it. And to 'hear it from the horses mouth' too is a real bonus. I love hearing stories of hope and getting some advice along the way certainly helps too.

I feel so entangled in this mess, I really do. I wish that I could see some hope for myself... I feel so far gone already. I don't know what will be the answer of me getting out of this, I can't wait for a magical spell, I know... I honestly don't know if I'm trying or not. I feel that bad that it feels like I've given up to be frank. But I guess I'm not going to get anywhere without wanting to? So what's the answer to changing that?

Only you can know if you're truly trying or not. I know that for me, for years I projected the image of trying but I really wasn't and didn't care. I had to figure out how to want to want to get better, because until it was what I genuinely wanted there was no point wasting anyone's time or my money. I don't know how I got there... I think I just reached my breaking point and got tired and finally admitted my way wasn't working and I was ready to try someone else's way. I started taking meds regularly for the first time ever and that was a really important step.

I know without a doubt I will have to work at this every day for the rest of my life but now I have tools, medication, a therapist, and a desire to do so. And in doing the work, the reward is that my life is worthwhile and enjoyable. It's not a life of misery and hell any more and while certain things still need monitoring, I feel like I can start to figure out who I am on several levels so I can live my life.

 

[AmZ]

Great to hear.

It does scare me that this could be such a long process. And as it's in my genes, I worry that I will suffer with some sort of depression for the rest of my life.

I don't know about making the best out of life or just giving in and ending my life. One of the two. At least right now, I'd go on the side of not living a full life because of all of the suffering.

Even when I think of my family, I step over that mark and take my suffering more seriously than what I'd put my family through.

 

[Katieann]

Hey AmZ...

You mentioned "entangled in this mess"...well that makes me think of a chain necklance that's been tangled. How do you fix that? One tiny movement at a time...As the girls above are explaining. And if you journal, you can look back and see your step by step progress...I've heard the expression: No matter where you go = There you are. I just love that... Wherever you are is the best place to start, because you make it that way.

As far as your case is concerned - I do believe that you are the expert on call! You are an extremely intelligent and aware girl - and you can totally do this...

Katieann:2thumbs:

 

[AmZ]

Thank you for the positive words. You are kind.

I just wish I had some sense of direction in life, something to live for asides from my family, something for myself - I don't see the point in life. Maybe I need to do something wild in my life and really not 'normal'. I don't think I can do the 9-5 job and tv in the evenings.

I'm in the hospital and have been here a long time - I emigrated 5 1/2 years ago and I have my whole life underneath my bed here in suitcases.

Due to the well paid job I had and my good control on money, I have over $10,000 USD saved in my bank account. Maybe I should go wild and go and lay on that tropical beach for a while or like in these BPD memoirs, go to India and find myself and inner peace.

 

[Banned]

You won't find yourself and inner peace in India. I promise. Save your money.

 

[AmZ]

You won't find yourself and inner peace in India. I promise. Save your money.

Ok, I'll save it for a rainy day. That's what I've always said.

I just don't see the point in life. I haven't been able to find happiness and any direction. I've felt empty since I was 15 years old or so. That's when the OCD started and was when I'd been self-harming for a couple of years already.

I wonder what is wrong with me at the core. The BPD? Early onset depression? And I wonder how I can work all of this out.

My first therapist that diagnosed me with BPD said that I have a lack of sense of self due to my upbringing but she never really was able to explain that in any more detail. I agree with her though.

In my therapy in hospital, I'm always on this same rhetoric of feeling empty and lifeless. But she never says anything I can do to combat this. I don't know how much is depression and how much is the BPD.

Does anything come across here as to why I feel the way I do? The emptiness and lifelessness. Or generally with BPD, how that develops and why it happens?

Thanks.

 

[W00BY]

Depression did that for me and a lack of meaningful relationships.

It's a vicious circle your depressed so you don't bother with anything which leads to nothing going on which leads to well there's nothing out there for me why bother and so on and so on.

I like to think of these phases in depression as cyclic it certainly gave me the edge of the label to then pick at.

by this I mean by identifying vicious and unhealthy cycles I could set about breaking them and introducing positive and healthy things into those cycles which at first was a MAMMOTH task just staying awake and staying out of bed at first was an effort, then finding something that attracted my interest and energy enough that I wanted to keep going was the next hurdle.

But what I found was that these cycles are made up of chain links and each one you change leads naturally to change else where and at first they are imperceptible in fact almost invisible... but with persistence and prioritizing over staying in bed with getting out of it ...or not talking to people with talking to them... or opening letters rather than ignoring them replacement of the chain that powered the vicious circle started.

I felt scared, overwhelmed took steps back, needed nudging forward, lost my grip on things all through this process but as the chain links changed more and more I broke free of the loneliness, emptiness and depression I was suffering and the energy to get to therapy and be honest appeared.

From that came more work and fear and panic about what do I want? how do I go about it? an I strong enough?

But with accepting I needed help and genuinely accepting this help another "good" circle started, one where I could think of my self in positive terms ( which is still and always will be a struggle), one where I could shrug off stuff that would have sunk me before and finally one where I now I will never be as low as I was when this journey started because I am in all honesty a different person who is closer to my inner idea of myself discovered through therapy.

I can now explain to my very best friend why for the 30 years we have been friends I never once uttered a word about the abuse I suffered at home all the time we were friends, I carry no shame and I can climb out from under anything life throws at me

but what I am trying to say to you Amz is it takes work only you can gift yourself.

You already know something is far wrong in yourself or you wouldn't be sat here searching and pondering you mind is telling you all you need to know.

No matter how long you take to get up and meet it and deal with it, it will always be you that needs to do that.

I hope sincerely you find this strength because I now feel a sense of privilege that I made that effort and found a new set of glasses to look at life through and nothing in life is hard after such a battle to get out of depression the world is literally your oyster should you chose to battle yourself head on.