Getting Over a Narcissistic Mother

[David Baxter PhD]

Getting Over a Narcissistic Mother
By Carlin Flora, Psychology Today
September 23, 2008

How to get over your narcissistic mom.

We tend to throw around the descriptor "narcissist" when we really mean "selfish," but the term can properly refer to someone who consistently exhibits narcissistic traits as well as to someone with a full-blown Narcissistic Personality Disorder. The APA estimates that 1.5 million American women are "official" narcissists, meaning millions more can be found on the lower end of that personality spectrum.

Karyl McBride, Ph.D., has spent more than 20 years studying and treating women who grew up with narcissistic moms. I interviewed her about her new book, Will I Ever Be Good Enough? Healing The Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers. Here's an edited version of our conversation:

What are the hallmarks of maternal narcissism?
An inability to give love to, and show empathy toward, the child.

How would you describe the typical husband of such a mother?
The spouse has to revolve around her, often, in order to stay in the relationship. He may practically worship her. That means he may never help or protect the child who is being ignored. Some fathers I've talked to realize the damage being done to their child, but feel that they can't do anything about it. Others seem to not be aware.

You found two typical patterns of behavior in daughters of narcissistic mothers.
Yes. There's the high achieving daughter?I call her Mary Marvel?who appears to be perfect in all she does. One of the main messages that gets internalized when your mother is narcissistic is, "You are valued for what you do and not for who you are." So Mary Marvel is constantly trying to prove to herself that she does have worth, by mastering different endeavors.

The other kind of daughter is a rebel. She's an under-achiever who self-sabotages. She may end up on welfare or addicted to drugs or alcohol. It's interesting, the two types look very different on the outside, but their internal landscape is similar. The self-saboteur also thinks she's not good enough, but has given up on disproving it.

What determines which way a daughter goes?
I was really interested in this question, especially since my sister and I fit this pattern? where I'm the "Mary Marvel." It's not entirely clear, but it seems that in the case of the over-achiever, she had someone in her life?maybe a grandmother?who gave her unconditional love.

What typically happens to these daughters in their own romantic relationships?
These daughters learn a distorted view of love. They learn that love is about "what I can do for you and what you can do for me." They may be overly dependent on their partners, or choose people who are entirely dependent on them. A healthy relationship, meanwhile, is based on the back and forth of interdependency.

How can an adult daughter "recover" from narcissistic mothering?
In the book I outline a 5-step program. The first part is accepting that you had a mother that didn't love you. This is very hard for some women to acknowledge, especially because daughters in these families were not taught to deal with their feelings.

Then the daughter must separate psychologically from her mother. Part of that is tapping into who she is and figuring out who she wants to be. It's also important to end the legacy, to prevent the next generation from suffering in the same way.

How can these women avoid becoming just like their mothers, then?
It's really about internal changes, and changing how they interact with other people.

You can learn how to be empathetic with your children. That doesn't mean loving "my kid the ballerina" or "my kid the soccer player," but really tuning into who your children are as people. And it's not about praising them just to praise them. That leads children to feel entitled, which is a narcissistic trait.

If these women treat their mothers differently, will the mothers react differently?
If a daughter starts setting boundaries in the beginning of this process, the mother's bad behavior may in fact escalate. That's why I often recommend a temporary separation.

The mothers may not change. I wouldn't want to give daughters hope that they will. But once a daughter understands her mother's narcissism, her own anger and resentment will fade. She can approach her mother in a loving way, and not as a victim.

It's really about accepting your mother's limitations. One of the women on my online forum described her old mentality toward her mother as something like this, "It's like my mom is colorblind, and I keep asking her to appreciate a rainbow."

 

[SueW]

Firstly, I think Carlin Flora is doing a great job of bringing awareness to all of us about narcissistic mothers. I think pretty much most of what she writes is pretty good advice.
However, as a survivor of a narcissistic mother, I have some problems with some of what Carlin Flora has to say...

"The mothers may not change. I wouldn't want to give daughters hope that they will. But once a daughter understands her mother's narcissism, her own anger and resentment will fade. She can approach her mother in a loving way, and not as a victim."

I find this statement potentially dangerous. For me and one or two others I know online, no contact was the safest option, the only option. This statement does not allow for the 'no contact' option. Also, I will never be able to 'approach my mother in a loving way' because of all the hurt I have endured. In fact I simply cannot (note cannot, and I don't mean will not) love my mother the way I would like to because of the enormous hurt; it would in fact be dangerous to try.

You found two typical patterns of behavior in daughters of narcissistic mothers.
Yes. There's the high achieving daughter—I call her Mary Marvel—who appears to be perfect in all she does. One of the main messages that gets internalized when your mother is narcissistic is, "You are valued for what you do and not for who you are." So Mary Marvel is constantly trying to prove to herself that she does have worth, by mastering different endeavors.
The other kind of daughter is a rebel. She's an under-achiever who self-sabotages. She may end up on welfare or addicted to drugs or alcohol. It's interesting, the two types look very different on the outside, but their internal landscape is similar. The self-saboteur also thinks she's not good enough, but has given up on disproving it.

Not sure that I am any of these but I may be the Mary Marvel because I have achieved many qualifications over the years and it really feels like I have done these for me rather than pleasing my mother - I haven't seen her for years so I can't be doing, can I. In any case, can you really pigeon hole people like that?

Sue

 

[Parafluie]

My mother has been dead for almost 20 years, so I sure have separation, but I still carry her destructiveness in my mind and feel the pain.

As the rebel, however, I was able to separate some. Early on, I developed an "I'm okay--you're not okay" belief system so she could tell the world (and me) that I was bad and worthless. I always disagreed in my mind, and, in fact, was pretty productive and positive in the view of so many others. I accomplished and gave (not as much as I might/could have if I had had more caring parenting) and grew despite her always finding a way to diminish me.

I did things in my life to prove to myself that I was a worthwhile and perhaps even admirable person, and because achieving felt good. Yet I never stopped trying to achieve that never-possible love and/or approval from her.

 

[NakedWombat]

From reading some information on this site, I have come to realise that my mother fits in the criteria of the narcissistic mother. However, at a very young age, I learned to not care about what others thought of me. I simply learned to not care. That stance also made me a bit anti-social I admit.

 

[wanda20]

Hello all. I originally joined this site to read and help me understand my own situtation with my narcassistic mother. This is my first post on the topic.

With the help of my doctor over the last 11 years, we have been trying to help me get through my emotional termoil after I have had contact with my mother. I have been referred to psychologists over the years by my doctor. These sessions helped to a certain extent, but I find that even though I use some of the techniques give to me when I talk to her, the barbs from her come out and I end up trying to defend myself, which then turns to anger. The last argument was on Christmas day and we haven't had contact since.

Yesterday I watched a show on TV that reminded me that they are getting older - mum is 76 and dad is 85 - and I wanted to make contact again. So I sent an Easter card. I felt the need to connect again. I just wish we could spend the time we have together just being nice to each other. I have offered to help her and dad out (several times over the years), but they don't want me to. Ever since I moved away from close to where she lives (45 minutes away) she feels that I have "left" her and I am too far away to help her anymore.

The arguments we have are usually my mum saying, if you don't agree with me or see it my way, I will cut off contact. She always calls or writes letters at some point, after a couple of months, to tell me what a selfish daughter I am. The last phone call we had at christmas, she finally admitted that she cannot get past the hurt and pain I have caused her over the last 15 years. I apologised - several times over the years- and it's not enough. I then have to crawl my way back into her good graces. It's like she is waiting for me to make another mistake - and I may too because I am human - and then we are back to square one again. It was an easier relationship when I just adored her and did as I was told. When I "left the fold" after my brother died, that's when things got worse with my mother and haven't got better since.

I just want some sort of relationship with my parents. I just don't know what to do anymore. Sorry, I have probably gone on too much. Thank you for the opportunity to write some of my feelings down.

 

[SueW]

Hello Wanda,

I have so much I would like to say to you and wish I had more time to write this. However, I so identify with you. From what you tell me, your mother is pulling all your strings for as long as you remain emotionally connected to her. For me (and I am not necessarily saying that you should too) the only way out was to break the emotional bond between myself and my mother and for me it meant no contact whatsoever. Once I had done this the emotional pain subsided and I also dealt with any guilt. I feel guilty no more. Now, I realise when you read this it may horrify you and you may think I am selfish and horrible for breaking all connections. I would understand this. However, please know that I am not a heartless person and I broke the bond for my own sanity, self-respect and a stable life for myself and my family (my mother would have interfered no end). I have the love of a brilliant husband and sons and i know I am capable of love. I also have the self-respect to be able to say I am not going to be emotionally pushed and pulled from one direction to another and I will save my love and devotion for those who graciously accept it and for those who do not abuse any emotional bond I have with them. Lastly, you say that you want some sort of relationship with your parents. Ask yourself these questions; do you want a relationship with what you want your parents to be? Or do you want a relationship with what they really are? Are you opening your eyes wide enough? Are you keeping in touch with them just to save yourself from guilt?

Sorry if I sound harsh but it may mean distancing yourself emotionally at least to be able to function properly.

Wanda, do yourself a favour and please read When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Secunda

Hope this helps and best of luck

Sue

---------- Post added at 04:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:45 PM ----------

To remain in a relationship where the bad actors are refusing to change, and when you have determined that their behavior is more than annoying and definitely in the realm of evil and destructive, then you must remove yourself from the relationship if you are going to avoid being an accomplice to their evil.

You don't have the power to change the narcissist, so you don't have the responsibility either. Please let that soak in. Some of us stay way too long in relationships with narcissists because somewhere in our minds we feel responsible for changing them. Give up that thought. Recognize the little bit of grandiosity in your opinion of yourself that allows you to believe you can be so wonderful, wise, loving or compassionate that you can change the narcissist. It is a heavy burden to be a savior...and an effort in futility. Step out of the way and let the law of consequences have a chance. You are without blame. They chose this outcome.

both quotes by Anna Valerious - website address Narcissists Suck: To cut off from a parent, or not....that is the question

 

[wanda20]

Hello Sue,

Thanks for your reply. It gave me quite a lot to think about. And no, I don't think you are a horrible person for the choice you made. You made a decision that is right for you. But I had a couple of questions, if that is okay. How did you "break it off" with you mother? Did you talk to her over the phone and give her your reasons or did you send her a letter?

Secondly, how did you deal effectively with the guilt you mentioned? If you don't mind sharing.

I read the article in the link you gave me. It helped. I have also ordered the book from the library called "When your mother can't be friends" by Secunda. Hopefully I will be able to get it sooner than later.

I had a big cry tonight. I want to maintain some ties with my mother and father (the way they are) but then my sister reminded me what I would have to do to get back in, and stay in, with her good graces, and I found I got angry again and then started crying. What I wanted seemed so simple, a phone call once a fortnight to my parents to say hello and how are you.

Anyway, I sent the Easter card saying best wishes for Easter and kisses and said if they needed any help around the house or buying groceries, paying bills, I am happy to help. I will wait to see if I get a reply back - and what will be in that reply. I will then have to find the right words to reply to get my thoughts across. I always feel I say the wrong thing. And then it comes back to bite me.

Thanks for your wise words Sue. I will let you know how things go. You are a kind person. Thanks for sharing with me.

Take care.

 

[SueW]

Hi Wanda,
You asked

How did you "break it off" with you mother? Did you talk to her over the phone and give her your reasons or did you send her a letter?

I can't really say here as is it a long story. However, when I last saw her I didn't realise at the time that it would be the last time. It was during a big argument when she turned up unannounced to my house where I lived with my husband (she had travelled far so she was not just passing). She always had a sense of entitlement and she probably thought I would automatically just let her in (you really need to understand the whole context of the events that lead up to this moment but it is too long to write it here). I had not long been married and she had shown a lot of jealousy before that. The long and short of it is I told her to go and leave me alone (she had been pestering me all week at work and at home constantly phoning etc). I never heard a thing for a couple of months and I loved it. It was so nice and peaceful life without her. I decided then to move and we did without telling her. I felt a little guilty but it was easier to deal with the guilt than her. I eventually (after some time) got to know about therapy and found a very good Person-centred therapist and had many sessions and I feel guilty no more because now I know I did the right thing.

I will tell you the whole story and will send my email address in a private message.

Sue

 

[NakedWombat]

When I started to need to break free and had had enough, I was unintentionally taking emotional relief and I guess, support by playing music by Metallica such, 'Mother Said'. I was not ever the stereotypical head banger. In fact, people were surprised when they learned I listen to Metallica. Music has always been one of my nurturers. Music and mother nature.

 

[NakedWombat]

The Narcissist Mother Returns!

The time I have been waiting for arrived yesterday. The favoured son fell out of favour when he finally did something that would upset her. That being, spread lies about his brother who is deceased. When he was told to stop, he threw a tantie and refused to contact our mother for months. At least a year.

He suddenly rocked up to our mother's home and yes, the time I have patiently been waiting for arrived. I get this phone call where she's all over over him, the cuddly him, the one who handles disagreements with his hands and fists to get his way when he can't with his mouth. The one who destroyed our eldest brother's career for revenge for something that happened two decades ago. Typical.

I was fine with it as I don't let it get me down any more as I'm long past it. This morning I get another phone call from my mother where she's mooing over the much loved son. Not surprised and wonders why we won't talk. Apparently we're all 14 year olds. Now, the one thing I won't do is let her put me down and I didn't feel like arguing so I said, "Whatever", and hung up. I get this phone call back asking why I was upset and yes, the berating started but no, I don't take that rubbish any more and sadly, had to raise my voice over hers to get a word in edge wise, telling her that I'm more than happy to talk with her if she holds a reasonable conversation without the insults but until then, I told her to get lost. Well, in stronger language to drive the wedge home. I'm formerly active in politics as an active behind the scenes participant - I know how to wedge. I hung up.

Now, I won't allow this into my family as we raise our children to be loving and caring of each other, which they are. All four children are very close and are protective of each other. When we lived with my mother for two years while deciding where to go, my mother did everything to try to create a division between our two eldest. The eldest just starting school and the second, a toddler. She favoured the toddler and I had arguments with her about this. One day I followed my mother to see what she was up to as I know when she's sneaking about, I caught her as she was about to hit my eldest. I grabbed that swinging arm and pulled her back and onto the floor, telling her that next time it would be a breakage. I said this because I know how violent she can get with children. Not long after that, we left.

I refuse to let her soul destroying influence to enter this house. My eldest is still very uncomfortable with my mother despite all this happening 6 years ago.

It will be interesting to see how long it takes for her to call as I'm most certainly not going to go back groveling back to her. She probably rang up somebody else to complain about me. Oh well, too bad for her, and why I put 1800km's between us.

 

[Dragonfly]

NakedWombat - I was relieved to hear about the courageous efforts you have gone to, to protect your children .... I am sorry that there wasn't someone there to protect you when you were younger. You are absolutely right. This is about your mother - not you. Wishes to you as you struggle to keep this paramount.

 

[H011yHawkJ311yBean]

It took me a long time to come to the point that I blocked my mother's phone number. I would say blocked my mother and father's phone number, but my dad is never the one who calls. It is only my mother. I get the impression that my dad worships her, which is why he enables her and never sticks up for himself or his children or his extended family. Probably the only person who will stay in The Cult of Mother forever. So really, he's let himself become a shell and my mother is his puppet master. What you say to him goes directly to her, what comes out of his mouth is what she tells him to say.

My brother hasn't spoken to her for over 5 years, and I just couldn't bring myself to do it for the longest time because I pitied my mother. But again, I am confusing pity with love, like I did in some really bad relationships I had. Why should I sacrifice myself and lose myself just to keep someone else alive by letting them have some kind of parasitic umbilical cord going into my neck and slowly sucking the life out of me until I am a shell of a person like my dad is. My mother's way of dealing with my brother not calling or visiting is that she has some kind of mathematical formula she uses to deduct his inheritance from their will. It will probably happen to me, too, then, but I have come to accept that.

That being said, I blocked my mother's phone number. Before that point, I tried to keep a relationship over the phone. But then the problem was that she would call and then always try to manipulate or push buttons or try a barrage of suggestions. I can never talk about anything more than the weather with her, or she'll try to interfere. She treats me like dirt when my dad is not on the phone with her, so it was one of these times that I decided to block their number.

I sent my parents an email saying (paraphrasing) that I prefer to keep communications by email only (and Facebook). The reasons I gave were a) when mom and dad call, it is always my mom who takes over the conversation and b) dad never has anything to say and c) I don't feel good about myself when I talk over the phone.

I sent them that info by email, because if I bothered to try to explain anything of that sort over the phone or in person, of course she would argue with me. I am so tired of arguing that black is black whereas she keeps trying to say black is white. If you aren't careful, she will make you think you are nuts because you don't think black is white.

The thing that used to rule me was guilt. I am finding that I'm losing the guilt, and forums like this help me. I am not a bad person just because I want to have normal relationships, and to be feel safe and not feel terrible about myself. At first I was thinking of going back to phone calls, but I don't think I can. It is much too peaceful and guilt-free. I may be at the point of no return. A significant amount of relaxation has come over my soul. I never say never, but that's how it looks to me right now. I don't think I can ever go back to talking to my mother. Right now, I'd rather dive into a swimming pool full of double-edge razor blades. 8P

 

[NakedWombat]

Good to see you take that step, JollyGreenJellyBean.

I had actually cut off all communication from her and nobody knew where we lived. I only reconnected when I needed important information. Now, I don't actually believe that my mother is my maternal mother. There is so much pointing in the direction that my mother was my father's mistress who was too ill care for me when I was born and so, I was dumped with my father's first wife(of 5 wives). But, I'm not allowed to know the truth. I've been told to shut up about it and not ask any questions and then they tell me that of course she's my mother. Hell, the only reason I want to know is because my neurologists need genetical information.

I don't even look like anybody on my mother's side. Somehow, I have to respect the facade of this morality they hold. Pfffft!

 

[H011yHawkJ311yBean]

Oh yes. My mother is ALL about Religion and morality. That's why she's had Revenue Canada (failure to report profits/property and one of the main reasons my youngest brother doesn't talk to her anymore because she convinced him to take part of the blame), The Rentalsman (not fixing a festering mouldy hole in the bathroom that allowed you to see past the insulation to the outside wall during the winter), The Labour Board (suing for backwages she owed her employees), and also that's why she was suspended without pay (which naturally she disputed) from her job, because naturally she's the most noble and knowing person in the world and probably has personal conversations with God who tells her it's absolutely fine to administer drugs that she otherwise has no authority to give out as a nurse in a cancer ward for the elderly. That's why when we were all kids, my mom and dad took all three of us siblings to a lay service... Oh did I mention this service was located at the Correction Centre? Ya know, the jail? Of course it was hunky dory to bring your children because these poor low-level convicts needed God and apparently we children needed to be physically present at a jail to know that convicts are people that God loves, too.

Oh, and she let me sit on a pedophile's lap while there. He perspired quite a lot, and my parents took pictures of me sitting on his lap, and then when I held hands with said pedophile in Prayer Circle, he was all sweaty-palmed and made me feel quite uncomfortable. On the ride home my mother turned around to look at me in the backseat of the car and asked me what I thought of the gentleman. I said he was sweaty and kind of made me feel uncomfortable. My mom said, "Well that was probably because he was a pedophile." At which point my dad shot her a look and said, "You aren't going to TELL her what a pedophile IS, are you?" At which point, mom said, "She'll find out anyway." I would like to know how I would have come to know that information, but at least I now knew what a pedophile was, because she explained it all to me very clearly. I think I was 9 years old. I asked her several times over the last decades if she could please destroy those photos, but she keeps saying things like, "But we don't have any other pictures of you, and you look so pretty at that age." At the time she didn't know her nephew was molesting me. But it's probably for the best, because when I told her almost 15 years later what happened and I got the Spanish Inquisition, and I think I may finally have convinced her (like it's a child's job to convince a parent that she was abused??) that it happened, she later told me it was probably something I did.

When I told my therapist this information about the pedophile, he was agitated enough when I mentioned we went to the Jail for Sunday Service. When I mentioned about the ride home, he had to take a drink of his cola (I think he wished he had a flask). Until that point, I thought nothing of taking a trip with my family to the Klink. I mean we also went to care homes for the elderly. Oh, really? Doesn't everyone do that? lol

If my mom doesn't feel like doing something, she'll tell people she's 'given it over to God' to deal with... So naturally God has to fix things for her, since they seem to be such close friends.

 

[NakedWombat]

Sheesh, sounds like you went through hell, jgjb.

 

[H011yHawkJ311yBean]

Oh crap, I think I'm hijacking the thread. Sorry.

8P I think everyone on these forums went through hell. I do not want to compete to say my pain is worse than anyone else's, just meant more to commiserate...

If I weren't so tired I would take it out on a piece of canvas with a paintbrush...

 

[Bliss]

If I may butt in...I don't think you can 'get over' a narcissistic mother/father over night. You can make a concious decision to want to change this or that, to change your behaviour and the general dymamics, but you can't snap your fingers and say, "Problem solved."

In regards to my mother, what made it easy for me, I suppose, is that I grew up hating her guts. In my teenage mind, she was freakin' crazy. No ifs, ands or buts about it. I was also furtunate enough to be involved in 'inner growth' workshops through school. I went on frequent weekend workshops and learned how to identify and express my feelings. I took an interest in self-help books at a relatively young age.

My mother communicated her perception of 'self-entitlement' through playing the victim. Boo-hoo, you don't love me. Boo-hoo, I gave you everything. Boo-hoo, you are selfish and ungrateful. And on and on, so since I hated her, it was easy to roll my eyes and tune her out. She's also a pathological liar and master manipulator. Of course, I couldn't tune-out her physical abuse, but the last time she struck me, I was sixteen, and I remember it like it was yesterday. She raised her arm to strike, I caught her wrist. She raised her other arm, and I caught that one too. Then I forcefully brought her arms down, took one step closer, looked directly into her eyes and declared, "The next time you hit me, I will hit you back." She never tried to strike me again, but ugh...the tirades. The name calling. The tantrums. The tears. The rages. It all made me sick.

I moved out 9 months after my 18th birthday. She didn't want me to, of course. She even forbade it, to which I merely laughed and told her I was legally an adult, I'd signed a lease and she couldn't stop me. For a while, she'd call me at my appartment to scream at me for some perceived wrong, until one day it dawned on me...hey, I have my own place, I pay my own rent, why the heck do I put up with this? And I told her, "You know what? If you can't speak to mean in a civilized manner, then don't call me anymore," and hung up on her.

I would see her occasionally. We worked minutes away from each other, and sometimes I drop by to say hi. Of course she'd go into her guilt trip. "Boo-hoo, I want us to be closer. Boo-hoo, the other women I work with have great relationships with their daughters. Why can't we?" But whenver I brought up my childhood, she'd deny everything. "I never did that." "I never said this." Which only served to drive me bonkers because I'd been raised listening to her lie to people. It made me see red and I'd tell her to take a flying leap. So eventually she changed tactics. "I'm sorry for what I did. I know I hurt you, but are you going to punish me for the rest of your life?" I tried to explain that you can't build a relationship out of thin air. That she spent my entire childhood taking out her frustrations on me, and it was unrealistic to think we could suddenly be best friends. She wanted me try. She begged me to go to therapy with her, which I refused. (By this time, I was in my mid 20s). Years went by and I saw less and less of her. She'd been remarried for over a decade by then, and I liked her husband. When I did go to their place, whenever her husband and I got together to chat, she'd pop in and accuse us of 'talking about her', which to be honest, we weren't. One time, she even accused me of trying to seduce him. My jaw dropped. That she would think so little of me just blew my mind. Never mind the fact that I was in a steady relationship too.

One time, I remember looking at the photos on the fireplace mantle in her living room. As stared at all the familiar faces; my brother and his fiancee at the time, my mom and husband, my cousins, her husband's neices and nephews, her husbands brothers and sisters, her parents, and I found myself frowning. There wasn't a single photograph of me. Not a one. So I began to tour the house, looking at the photos in the den; nope. The hallway; nada. Her bedroom; zilch. The guestroom; still nothing. It wasn't like they never took photos of me when I went over. So where were they? I even checked a second time-and a third-in case I'd missed it. And I've always wondered about that. Why were there no pictures of me in her house? Her own daughter, her first-born, as she called me. The one she wanted to be closer to. The one so so desperately craved a relationship with?

More years went by and I saw less and less of her. In time, I stopped going over altogether. She never made the effort to come to my place; not that I hadn't invited her. When I was twenty, I threw a party for my boyfriend at the time. I invited everyone. His family, friends and my family. My mother refused to come if my father was there. I drew the line. No way was I playing that game. I told her she had no right to force her children to choose between their parents. She pulled the same crap with my brother (he could never stand up to her--still can't) and to this day, he's still paying for it. No family event takes place with both my parents in attendance--with the exception of major events, which I faught tooth and nails for.

The last time I saw my mother was eight years ago. Throughout the years, whenever I did see her at family events, I always treated her cordially. Hello. How are you. Blah blah blah, but no discussing our personal issues. Not that she didn't try, but again, I wouldn't play that game. When she tried to draw me into a corner to 'talk to me', I'd say no, that this wasn't the right place, and that she had no right to ruin someone's event by attempting to air out our dirty laundry in public. If she had something to say to me, she could call me. But eight years ago, at my niece's christening, to my utter shock, she came fully armed. She'd managed to work her sister, her mother and her husband into a nervous frenzy by playing the victim. "Boo-hoo, I'm afraid of how my daughter will treat me." At the time, I was battling a major depression, felt like a wreck and didn't think I had the mental endurance to put up with her drama. Guess I was wrong. Imagine my shock when my aunt and grandmother cornered my in the ladies room. "You mother was worried about seeing you." Huh? "She didn't know how you'd treat her." Me=scratching my head. "She thought you might make a scene?" me=WTF?? So I asked them, "Have you ever seen me be impolite and mean to my mother?" To which they answered no. So I asked, "Why would this time be different?" At one point, as I sat next to an uncle, I realized he kept making snide personal barbs at me. I didn't get it, so I turned to him and asked, "What's your problem?" to which he responded, "What's yours? We never see you. What do you have against your family?" Me=Um, nothing. So I asked him if he was aware that I didn't speak to my mother and hadn't seen her in years. Well guess what, he wasn't. NO ONE was. Whenver a relative would inquire about me, my mother would answer that I was fine, blah blah blah. NO ONE knew we weren't on speaking terms-except my grandmother, my aunt and my mother's husband.

The next day, I did a little more investigating. I called my aunt and found out that my mother told her and my grandmother that the reason they never saw me was because my boyfriend beat me (completely untrue--I pity the poor man who ever tries) and I didn't go to family events because I didn't want anyone to see the bruises. I wasn't even with said boyfriend anymore. LOL I was outraged. My aunt made me swear that I wasn't beaten. Her, who'd been married to an abusive man in her first marriage--my mother told her I was a beaten woman. My aunt said she thought about me every day, that she was worried about me. How could my mother be so cruel? So, since I always expose my mother's lies, I made a point to contact EVERY SINGLE member of the family. I spoke to each relative personally. Needless to say most of them were stunned.

Shortly aftewards, my grandmother was diagnosed with lung cancer. I visited her in the hospital, and she cried and begged me to 'patch thing up with my mother." I felt like the worse human being on the planet for denying a dying woman's last wish. But I refused to have a relationship with my mother to accommodate other people. Then I wrote a letter to my mother. I stated all the reasons I didn't want to have a relationship with her. I said everything I needed to say, I made a photocopy of said letter, which I sent to her sister, and mailed the letter to my mother.

She contacted me last year on my birthday. We spoke for a while. It was a polite conversation, chichatting like I would with any acquaintance. Then she said she wanted to see me. She wanted us to get together for supper and talk. I told her I din't think it was a good idea. But she wanted it--and she expected me to give her what she wanted. She told me think about, to take my time, to do it on 'my own terms'. I almost caved; I mean, after all, why couldn't I give her what she wanted? What was one evening? But I knew, that ultimately, she wouldn't be satisfied with one meal. And honestly, I wasn't enthused about having to hurt her and tell her no can do on her being part of my life. Then I reminded myself 'why' I shut her out in the first place. It wasn't because of my past--that's been long resolved. It's because of who she is; the lies, the manupulations, the tantrums, the threats. She gave me exactly four weeks (I guess she failed to mention 'on my terms, when I was ready' had an expiration date). After that, the weekly Saturday night tantrums on my answering machine started. She'd rant and rage. Then she'd call back, sniffling, weeping into the phone. It went on for months. I took no pleasure in her distress, but I refused to cave. The more she pushed, the more I pulled back. Until the night she left a message saying "I'm sorry for all the wrong you think I did to you. But you hurt me too all these years. You're my daughter. You don't have children so you don't know how much a mother loves her child." Ugh. I lost it. I refused to feel pity for the person who abused me. No way in hell. I almost drove to her place just so I could bash my fist into her nose, that's how pissed I was. I decided to let the dust settle and sleep on it. The next morning, I listened to her message again. Then I called her and told her I didn't appreciate being harrassed, to which she replied 'fine, I won't call you anymore.' For a months she backed off but she called again on New Year's Eve. I answered and she pushed again. I firmly said, "I'm sorry, but I can't give you what you want." End of conversation. Haven't heard from her since.

In short, ha!, I guess that we can sever all ties with a parent , but no matter what, they remain our parent. That will never change. And like it or not, no matter how many years go by, they will always feel entitled to invade our lives when they so choose. We can keep the door firmly shut...but they can always knock.

 

[SueW]

Thanks Bliss. Have had similar experiences myself. Not seem seen mine for 20 years for very similar reasons to yours.

Sue

 

[H011yHawkJ311yBean]

That's what I'm saying. Can't cut ties like ripping of a bandaid. It's more like you're a rock and you eventually get worn down by the elements (the storms, the raging rivers, the hail, the hurricanes and tsunamis from mother). Once you've had enough it kind of works itself out, doesn't it.

The way things happened with you and your mom was a lot the same with my brother and mom. And a little bit like me on my end.

My mother communicated her perception of 'self-entitlement' through playing the victim. Boo-hoo, you don't love me. Boo-hoo, I gave you everything. Boo-hoo, you are selfish and ungrateful

.

"Boo-hoo, I want us to be closer. Boo-hoo, the other women I work with have great relationships with their daughters. Why can't we?" But whenver I brought up my childhood, she'd deny everything. "I never did that."

"I'm sorry for all the wrong you think I did to you. But you hurt me too all these years. You're my daughter. You don't have children so you don't know how much a mother loves her child."

I don't think that made it any easier on ya, though, give yourself some credit. You sound like you had it more together than I did. I didn't have the guts to stand up to my mother like you did, because I was trying to be "good." Which wasn't the best thing for me to do, but I preferred it to being smacked around, followed, and her snarling in my face. I wanted to hit her, or lash out, but I would harm myself instead. Silly me. Gave her an excuse to point at me and tell me something's wrong with me instead of her. I wanted to hit my mom sometimes, but I couldn't. Instead I'd wonder how she'd feel if I jumped out the top window of the house and smashed myself on the concrete. Maybe she'd miss me and feel bad for being such a... Whatever she is.

I wrote a letter to her, and only showed it to people here (and to my husband) as well as my mom and dad's responses. I'm fairly certain I won't be talking to either of them anymore. One thing for certain is that this break is for me, finally. If I went back to her, it would have to be for me, too. Not for guilt, not for obligation, not for what other people say. So right now I would rather breathe in the vacuum of outer space then try to discuss things with her because the same thing would happen (I would probably implode). And because really, like you say, she hasn't changed. What happened in the past is still happening in the present. I can't change what happened before, but I sure as hell can influence what is going to happen in the future.

 

[MWCT]

Sue W and Wanda,

I too identify with both of you, in a different way. In my case - it is my mother-in-law. We have not yet "broken off all contact", but have come close several times. Definitely a pattern of narcissism and potential borderline personality disorder - can't identify which....but with my husband being her health care proxy - he wants to "do the right thing" by being there for her when she needs him (and she has had several medical issues recently)....but then we go through a pattern of distancing ourselves so we don't get caught up in all the drama and neediness. At times it is a whirlwind.

I give SueW a lot of credit for having the courage to completely break it off. Sometimes I wish my husband made that decision and we have thought numerous times of just "getting away" from it all because it has been a huge burden on our family of four. My MIL is intrusive, controlling and desparate to see our sons.

We keep reminding ourselves - what do we want?? That is how we are now focused for the future....Do what we want first and if she doesn't like it - tough. I agree that the guilt is the hardest to release. The good thing is that my husband and I see eye to eye on it. He has a very laid back attitude towards it, where I want to be more responsive. But after the past several years, I have retracted more and more where I won't even pick up her call or answer her e-mail....or else you get caught up once again in the back and forth.

It sounds like you both are on the road to recovery and doing the right thing.....me - I just don't want me or my family to continue to go through these battles....probably will until the day she dies.