Getting Over a Narcissistic Mother

[H011yHawkJ311yBean]

I agree with Overcomer... Good for you for setting boundaries with your son-in-law who doesn't work... Sometimes we ladies with Narcissistic moms go way in the other direction. Our moms neglected us so we over-compensate with our own offspring. Doesn't sound like it in your case, sounds like you know when to say "when."

I am sorry to hear about all the issues going on in your life, but I am really glad you have some medication and hopefully some therapy...

It is a good thing to set boundaries with people and tell them how you expect to be treated if they stay under your roof. I hope the daughter with the 2 babies is helping around the house or doing something to help you like help out with bills or paying rent.

I have no contact with my parents right now because of my mother. Over the years she has pretty much brainwashed my dad into believing her side of the story, no matter how ridiculous it is. My 92 yr old gramma (dad's mom) is mistreated by my mom (threatens never to call again, etc) even just on the phone, so even my gramma has decided to stop trying to call her son. My dad never talks when they are on the phone anyway, and my mom is always always on the phone so my dad and gramma never get to talk alone, and my mom takes over the entire conversation. My dad's "conversation" consists of mostly breathing meekly into the other phone.

I have one brother my parents coddle who is nearly 40 years old. They pay for everything for him. Meanwhile my husband and I, and my brother and sister-in-law would rather hit our heads repeatedly together than talk to her. She has messed up my brother's life financially. She nearly messed up mine if I hadn't gone behind her back to a Real Estate Lawyer.

It's just too hurtful to have a relationship with her since I've pretty much been the neglected one in the family. I was the only and eldest girl, and I think I reminded my mom of herself the most, and since she hates herself so much, she projected stuff on to me all the time.

Anyway, I hear where you are coming from, and you can vent anytime!

 

[cleofet]

Thanks everyone for all the understanding. I wish I understood myself better. I cannot just detach from the woman who gave birth to me because I strugle with God's commandment of Honor thy Father and Mother and with GUILT. My detachment will come (I hope) with my mothers death. I was in therapy for 4 years up until a year and a half ago when my mother moved to my city and my insurance company droped the therapist I was going to. She knew my mother and I felt validated because of that. I do not have the funds or the inclanation to find another therapist and go back through all the crap. I do not feel like I am living just moving through this thing some people call life. When I do go see my mother in the Nursing Home she looks so sad and lost but part of me just thinks of her as a sad old lady while the other part of me is still very angry but feels obligated to visit really more then once a week. That one day a week is very hard for me because I never know what to say to her. It is such a strange situation because I am torn is some many directions. She is just one of the things that I feel I need to FIX. Well I need to go feed my two 4 month old grandbabies who my husband and I watch during the day (they and my daughter and my son live with us). Thanks again for listening and God bless all of you.

 

[Overcomer]

I too struggled with the "honor your mother' part then I learned the one that says its better to have a mill stone tied around your neck and thrown into the sea than to cause a little one to stumble and the one that says do not exasperate your children. Those saved me because first of all honoring doesnt mean I need to take the abuse, I can honor and stay away both. Second I was stumbling and becoming exasperated. I saw my Heavenly Father as a cruel and vicious father. I followed him only out of duty not the love he wanted. I even quit going to church when my mom left me. I carried so much guilt but by the time I stood up and told her she wasnt going to mistreat my anymore I was fighting to survive. It was either her or me. Sure I was scared. Sure I was worried. Sure I felt guilt but I knew I needed to survive and I wouldnt survive if I had not stood up to her. Yes it caused her to retaliate. But looking back I am so much stronger for having done. I not only saved myself but my daughter too. She was following in my foot steps and I knew that was wrong. It comes back to yourself again. You will not grow or becaome all you can be if you are exasperated. There is no honor in allowing someone to abuse you. You are not honoring her by being her scapegoat. You honor from a distance and show the world what a wonderful person you have become....that's a good way to honor her.

 

[dw4]

Hi, My name is Mary Marvel and I am the daughter of a Narcissistic Mother. LOL

Sorry, I just had to throw that in there since I am new here. But really, I am not laughing inside all that much. I am painfully and keenly aware of my position. And I fit the perfect profile of a Mary Marvel. I have also grappled with the rebel profile in my earlier years. I was very addicted to painkillers in the early 2000's and have been free from that for 3 years.

To start from the beginning, I was raised a very strict Mormon, which is not easy to live up to anyway. It is all about what you do in Mormonism. It is a rat race of clean-cut vanity and one upping the Jones's. Something I have been guilty of getting very caught up in. I trained as a professional singer in opera by a music instructor that took students by audition only. My mother paid for the lessons and has taken every bit of credit. Singing is about the only thing I have bragging rights to that I do extremely well. I went on to win many state competitions and awards and perform in many musicals and outdoor productions. I won a full ride scholarship to SUU in UT and dropped out to become the "rebel". I moved to Alaska where my father resided and left everything behind. There I was sent a letter by my mothers mother telling me I was running away to sleep with men. It was true except that it was only one man and I thought I loved him. This was my first long term removal from "her". I left "boyfriend" came home to Vegas and moved on 5 years later to marry my husband in 98'. All the while being controlled and manipulated. She hated my husband, still does. But tells me I will never find anyone better. So any loathing of him because of her brought me back to the same place.

I gave birth to my 3rd child and my mother and step-father bought a house for us that we could not afford to make payments on. We were manipulated into buying it. I will never know how that happened. I wanted OUT!!!! I found a prospect of buying a small business in St George UT and we packed up, and left that house to rot!!! (of course she is stuck with it and reminds me of it everyday of my life) I moved 120 miles away and we are now living off that small business. I am currently going to online Kaplan University where I will graduate (with honors more than likely) in June of 2013. I may move on to be an attorney. I have been a floral designer of 20 years, I can manage any flower shop in this world. I have owned, managed and operated my small business to a flourishing income to support our family. I trained as an 1st year EMT in Alaska where I decided I couldn't watch people die. I got into cake decorating for a while and can make a sweet lookin cake. If you give me something that I don't know how to do, I can assure you I will figure it out at some point. All in the name of what????? I have no idea why I strive to be the best at EVERYTHING!

My world 120 miles away from my "engulfing" and "gaslighting" mother came to a crashing halt this summer. She bought a gigantic house just 5 miles up the road from me. Telling me she has always wanted to live here. I called her bluff and told her I was moving back to Vegas after she bought this house and you should have seen her face. I am sure you can imagine.

In the last 6 months I have slowly felt like I am going insane. Painkillers are sounding really good again. We had a blowout a few weeks ago and she quit speaking to me for 2 weeks! Of course, that was all my fault, even though I had written her an e-mail explaining why I was upset. She would never admit that the e-mail made her mad. She didn't have to. This is her way. We start speaking again and then I made a really dumb mistake. Some things have happened, unfortunately a series of things that we had no control over. Car repairs, dental bills that wiped out our savings. On top of that, we lost $1200 in the last 2 months through our business. It has devastated our bank account. I had two options. Ask mom to give me my birthday and Christmas money early so that we could play a little catchup or go and get a car title loan. Since we will get the same money 30 days from now anyway, I decided there was no hurt in asking since it would not be a handout, but simply an early Christmas that we would give up to bills. No harm done. Huge mistake!!!!

She gives us the same amount every year. Mind you, my parents are wealthy. Probably more than I know. She begins to to tell me her sob story of how poor she is, that this will have to come out of savings and that maybe I should start thinking about starting a savings account myself. REALLY? Maybe I should think about cutting back. Not on going out to eat, but big things. LIKE WHAT? SERIOUSLY? If I could cut anymore corners, save anymore money than I have, I can assure you it would be there MOM! It was war. I decided in a split second I would not entertain this espianoge of manipulation. I can't win this anyway.

Needless to say, I found a way to get money without her support and I think that irks her even more. She beat me down so badly yesterday that I was done with everything. I had no desire to go on and asked God to PLEASE tell me if it was me, and if it was her to please pin it down and give it a name because I was losing my mind. God did just that. In that darkest hour, feeling rotten things I had never felt before, and in a last ditch effort, I picked up my laptop. I googled abusive mothers, thinking I was a terrible person for thinking that she was abusive. Where was I going with this? BAM! This website pops up. Narcissistic Mothers??? Heard that word before, but have no idea what it means. Thinking I am on the wrong path I am just about to leave until I start getting caught up in some of the titles. I start clicking on the blue highlighted words like "engulfing" and "gaslighting". My head starts to reel. My heart is pounding. I stay up all night long last night reading to discover that I have one of "these" mothers. Oh my God! Sweet release. A flood of emotions. Tears of past pain and hurt, falling down my cheeks, tears of joy replacing the pain.

But now the fear has settled in. I am no longer feeling like I want to die, but now I am fearing that the real war has only just begun. Not because I know what I know, but because I know what is to come. It is not a matter of if, but when. When will she catch on to what I am doing and begin to resist? I am terrified of her. When I was a child she would scream so loud spittle would come from her lips. She would slam doors so hard it would rattle the street. She would throw things against the walls and completely destroy our bedroom and make us clean it up. I was terrfied to ever make her mad. I didn't have a real name as a child because she called my brother and I "little BEEPS".

So here it is, two weeks away from my 40th birthday, and I am feeling that same terrorizing feeling I felt when I was 3. What will she do? Mind you, she is the worst kind of narcissist. She has mentally and emotionally scared me so badly that I have never been able to really hold down a real fulltime job. She has spent her life incapacitating me only to cut me down because of it. Browbeating, knitpicking, criticizing, mentally choking the life out of me. I would rather be beaten with a hammer than hear her wrath.

It is inevitable. I am at the beginning of a long and painful separation that I must endure. A love/hate relationship that most likely needs, or will inevitably come to an end. I am here today because I need support wherever I can find it. Thank you for listening to my story. I don't like to make people think unhappy thoughts, but I am so glad I can release this in a place where others are grappling with the same issues.

 

[SueW]

Hi DW4

You have come to the right place. My heart goes out to you and I wish you all the healing in the world. Please know you are not to blame, you are a good person; none of us are perfect but you are essentially good - remember that. When I read your story it is clear to me that your mother shows all the signs of being a narcissist. Your story sounds so very similar to mine. I moved away from my mother for very similar reasons to yours and she managed to find my address and stalked me. I ended up seeing a lawyer where a restraining order was put on her. I recommend a book called When You and Your Mother Can't be Friends by Victoria Secunda. She talks about the 'bad mommy taboo' and about how the world judges us if we dare to say anything bad about our mothers. The world assumes that just because somebody is a mother they must be wonderful (we have Mothers day etc).

I also recommend you find a good therapist, one who does not assume that all mothers are good. You might even find a psychologist is who might understand Narcissistic Personality Disorder better.

Remember you deserve to have your life and take what you need from life. That is not being selfish; it is simply taking what you need to grow. If your mother loved you she would understand this but she cannot love you because of the disorder. In her mind she is the centre of everything and thinks she is entitled.

Take care and look after you. This is your time now!

Do keep posting and hang in there.

Sue

 

[dw4]

Thank you Sue!

This is encouraging! I was looking on my Facebook wall today and last night I had posted a link about abusive mothers. A friend I went to 1st grade with posted to that link and spilled her heart. After private messaging I came to find out that her mother is the same way as mine. She is going through the same thing while raising small children as well. I am so glad I have someone I know to talk to about this.

As for my mother, I am terrifed. She has staulked my brother in the past when he estranged himself from her. She would spy on him by driving by his house, or having other people check up on him. She was careful not to intrude but with me it is going to be worse. She has never really had a hold on my brother like she has me. He told me he realized her manipulative and coniving ways in high school. Since I am her baby and the one who has always stuck by her side, the Gold Child so to speak, I fear the worst. She is very secretive and cunning. What happens to a narcissistic mother when she loses her extension? I am her emotional experience, she uses me to live the part of her life that she cannot feel. She uses me to get her recognition. She hasn't accomplished a darn thing in her life. I am the accomplished and educated with my own business and adoring husband. She lives and breathes for all this. What happens when I take that away???

 

[SueW]

Hang in there! You may need to use the law or at least tell her that if she carries on stalking you will seek legal advice BUT don't say this if you are not prepared to do it. I know this may sound scary to go down the legal route but if you have been a pushover in the past she is probably just expecting you to be the same again. You have a right to not be stalked and she could be breaking the law by doing so. If you can you need to break the emotional bond you have with her by seeing a therapist and maybe seek legal advice at the same time. I imagine if she gets a letter from a solicitor she will be scared (bullies are always cowards).
Take care
Sue

 

[Overcomer]

dw4
As you can tell you are not alone and you're not crazy. That alone is an amazing feeling. The hardest thing you will ever do is to make the decision to draw the line. The day I told my mom that things were going to change I said it and ran. Literally. Those were the words and I got out of the car and ran into my house. I dreaded her retaliation. I knew she would lash out. And she did. But, huge BUT, it was worth it. I would do it again and again and again. I wish I had done it sooner. The strength it took to do that was what I needed to resist her from then on out. I was stalked, and slandered, and mistreated from afar and still am to this day 9 years later. I have learned to live letting her do what she does. Let her waste her energy attacking me, Ive got to a point that it is just part of life and I dont stress too much over it. I havent spoken to her in all this time and have no intention to ever start. Yes, I lost part of my family but I gained a whole new self respect and that was enough. I would rather live on welfare and file bankruptcy 100 times than to ever let her back in my life.
I tell people what she has done. By lying about it I play her game and hide her sin. I need to focus on me. I also feel like she has given me a gift....the gift of her being out of my life....and I dont ever want her to take that gift back. I can breath and the weight of her is off my shoulders. I take NO responsibility for her actions. They are hers. She made those choices. She did those things. She not me. I didnt choose to be sold to a pedophile for his afternoons entertainment because she wanted to become part owner of his business. I didnt choose to be beaten or slandered or stolen from or have my daughter kidnapped. She did all of that on her own accord.
Steel yourself up. Resist all she represents. The price she offers on anything is way to high. Stand strong because you can do this. It is worth it. A million times over it is worth it. The best slap you can give her is to live your life happy. Even when you struggle just know that it is better than having her in your life. Yes its hard but there is a light at the end of the tunnel. There is hope. I am walking testament to that. There is peace and joy on the other side. You have made the first step. You have reached out and found like minded people. You have surrounded yourself with those that understand and cant stand the idea of another woman going through this. We are sisters. Kindred at heart. We will be here for you.

 

[victoriatcup]

I have been a member here a few years...have posted a few messages and received comments - but not been very active. I so much want to share my story here but am frightened to do so. I don't want the world to see my words, or is it that I am frightened to move from this familiar place of pain that is comfortable - so to speak - or am I frightened to grow beyond myself if I put it all out here for others to see? No need to answer my rhetorical questions.... these words are simply my brave attempt to find a place of familiarity, if you know what I mean.

One thing I know, I am frightened to be successful... after all, never during childhood did I do anything for me to understand or enjoy or even learn what it feels like to be successful within my own right as a human being. My job in life was to listen to my mother complain about her marriage, learn the ins and outs of how to manipulate the prices on tags in order to deceive my father as to cost paid. I know for sure those beatings I received from my fathers belt were his form of therapy and letting off steam. I know I didn't enjoy working the family business and the pictures of me at 10 reveal my lack of self-confidence and all other matters of "lack" a 10 year old born solely to be of service to her parents reflect.

I so much appreciate that time when my parents have been silent to me, now in my adult life. Then, when a holiday comes up like my father's birthday, I have a sick stomach for days beforehand ~ because I dread the phone call made by me to him, as was tradition, during a happier time of my life that ended. This year, I tried to email him instead, knowing this would never do - and I admittedly felt guilty. So I tried to be creative in leaving a birthday message for him without actually talking to him. I was successful. I had just had a 3 month silent period.... my father became upset with me during our last conversation and hung up on me - thus the 3 month punishment. Now, here come the emails, "honey, your dad wants to talk to" my mother informs me....dread! Oh, I so did not want to talk to him! Paradoxically, I so much wanted to talk to my dad! Sometimes I forget how hurtful my parents are with their words and silence - and being in a place in life where I desperately need the unconditional love in order to get through a very painful time.... I forget. Sure enough, during the conversation of this traditional birthday call to him, he again spoke the words I have asked him over and over again not to speak as they break my heart.... "I know you don't like it when I say this (chuckle-chuckle), but I am going to anyway", he states. Here we go again! But, it is his birthday so I didn't share that I would like him to respect the boundaries I have set forth regarding this matter and now this is the 8th time I have asked you not to say those words.... "well, I can see this conversation isn't going anywhere"...my dear father stated the last time we spoke on the phone... and click, hung up on again. How dare I share what is comfortable for me? How sad that a father cannot state, "jeez, I'm sorry ...I'll work on respecting your wishes - I sure don't want to hurt you especially through this delicate time of life for you"? Control dictates for him.

Three months of silence later, here I am again. During those couple of days surrounding my dads birthday, my mom sent an email about this and that...another suggesting I try this or that .....I respond, I share my thoughts about her suggestions, etc. and SILENCE. My question to all of you here who have so tenderly and passionately shared your words.... how do I stop obsessing about this in my head? How do I stop talking to them in my head...how do I stop searching the internet for information on the pain of the silent treatment, the effects of being ostracized, passive/aggressive behavior, etc.?

The initial question of how to get over a narcissistic parent.... that is a huge deal to contemplate, I can hardly get through these quarterly incidents of the year and I so much know the silence and peace won't last.... contact will happen and here I go again...harming myself by these obsessive thoughts from their callousness of undiagnosed Narcissistic PD and for my mother a combo N and Histrionic.

Sites like these are my only means of communicating with others. My story is way to long to share anyway, and I am not entirely certain I want to do so...but if I could just get help with this one aspect of not letting their abuse consume me as it does.... break my toe so I think of that instead?

Any healthy thoughts? or things that have worked for others? Thanks for listening ~ and I appreciate the time and words you may share with me!

Oh, one more thing...I found a website that really helped me understand my N parents....and especially the affects/effects? it has on their children.... when I read the page titled, "Adult Children of Narcissistic Parents" ...WHOA, finally in this written document I found myself....here I was, who I have tried to explain me as being...without the correct words to describe me to countless therapists through the decades. It was freedom...I finally understood why I feel the way I do about almost all the struggles I have had in my adult life. I don't know if I am able to post the site here or not....does anyone know for certain? I would love to share this site with all of you.

Well, a pat on the back for me today for daring to share ~ take good care.

---------- Post added at 07:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:52 PM ----------

An aside to my initial post....I have read the books suggested here and searched the internet for answers, I swear I have read every gosh darn thing I can get hold of to understand these dynamics and why people project, triangulate and all those other descriptive words.

It is one thing to know what to do, it such another thing to actually employ what you know to one's own situation - this is my dilemma.

Thanks again for listening ~

Be gentle to yourselves, yes?

 

[H011yHawkJ311yBean]

It takes time. Time to accept that they aren't going to change. And if you know it isn't your own fault that they behave this way, it's their fault. And if being associated with them at all is too toxic for you, let go of the guilt and stop associating with them. Period.

It took me years, and I am still processing things. I stopped talking to my parents in May of this year, and I haven't felt so peaceful and calm before. Even the few times I have received a letter or something from them, my mother is all over the place. One minute begging me to come back, other times condemning me, but not once has she said she is sorry. She doesn't think she has done anything wrong. And she keeps asking me to explain myself, and to be assertive with her. But I have tried so many years to be assertive with her. She either ignores, or pretends to listen, but the end result is she keeps repeating unwanted behaviours and stepping over my boundaries or inventing new ways to make my life hell. I tried to keep a civil connection, but it was more of what I was raised like: Fake fake fake.

I've had some help, though, I recommend a therapist (who is familiar with personality disorders)... And if necessary you may need a physician or psychiatrist if it is determined you may (even if just temporarily) need anti-anxiety or anti-depressants...

Hope this helps...

 

[dw4]

Dear Overcomer,

I am ever so glad you wrote this to me today. I now know that I am doing the right thing. I talked to my father last night. he divorced my mother when I was a baby and I never saw him until I was 11. He isn't exactly always there. But a good man nonetheless. I told him all the things that have happened with mom and he began to reveal some things about her that I never knew. He told me he never wanted me to hate her or develope disdain for her because of anything he said. He told me he left all those years ago for the same reasons I want to bolt. He said that she has a way about her that is so manipulative and so controlling and so abusive that he had to get away before he himself went crazy. After talking to him and hearing your short testimony I have to day I feel I am doing the right thing. I do feel free when she is not around. I once told my brother not too long ago that when I am around her I feel like I do not have a personality. He told me its because she never validates me. Whatever the case, I know that when she isn't around, I feel free and happy and I can be who I really am. I have even begun to recognize some of her narcissist traits in myself and have cast those out of my heart and mind so I won't become her. My greatest fear in this world is not being raped or losing a child, it is becoming just like her. I NEVER, EVER want to be like her and the worst thing a man has ever said to me is that I am like my mother.

I am sorry you had to be subjected to those things in your childhood. I was never physically abused in any sense of the word. Emotionally, mentally and verbally I was beaten to a pulp, daily. My mother screamed, and threatened and destroyed rooms. She would get in the car and drive 100 miles an hour just to scare the crap out of me and my brother. To get us to comply. I feel my suffering is nothing compared to others and even wonder what I am complaining about some days. But then I realize that my abuse is really no different than anyone elses. We all have experienced abuse in different ways and its not a contest. My heart goes out to you. But I have to day, because you probably rarely hear this from anyone like me, I am proud of you. I am proud of you for being strong and not clinging to the victim role. I am proud of you because it takes courage to do what you have done. Lots and lots of it. Stay strong and know that you are loved by those that have never experienced real love by a parent.

---------- Post added at 07:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:40 AM ----------

Jelly Bean,

You mom and my mom should get togther for coffee. They sound just alike. My mother does the Dr Jeckle and Mr Hyde thing as well. She will call and leave a very nasty message and then call back and sound so very sweet and sappy, but never, ever saying she is sorry. That is when she freaks me out the most. That terrible feeling in the pit of my stomach starts to rise up and I almost feel as though I need to throw up. Do you have children that your mother is attached to? I have 3 and they adore her which makes is hard because she loves that adoration. Explaining to my kids why we can't see grandma that often is so very hard because the picture she has painted of herself to them is one of perfection. I am not having to just extrange myself, but my poor kids who do not understand nor could they possibly begin to understand at this age.

---------- Post added at 08:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:51 AM ----------

Victoriatcup,

I understand. I get it, and I think that most of us here do. There are no words to describe the longing within your heart and soul for complete acceptance, unconditional love, and a sincere relationship with your parents. I can tell you why you keep coming back for more and I can tell you why you forget how painful it is to come back for more. I have made so many, so very many mistakes, morally, because I have sought out approval and recognition from authoritive figures in my life. I began to recognize this unhealthy trait about 4 years ago. Because I wasn't getting acceptance or validation from my parents, I was seeking it in other ways. These people I would find to validate me were just as unhealthy as my own parents.

Once I realized what I was doing I tried to pinpoint why I was doing it. I spent months trying to figure out what was wrong with me. Then one day in the deepest and darkest despair I had ever felt in my life, I began searching the internet. I realized after finding this site that I am addicted to seeking out approval from my parents, or any other authoritative person I can find. I keep going back for more because I have "hope". I hold out hope that everyone is wrong and the research is wrong and that my mother is going to change and that my step-father will stop being her enabler. But it just never happens. And after my conversation with my father last night, she has ALWAYS been this way. He confirmed for me that her wicked behavior is the reason he left and not only left but ran as far as he could, to Alaska!

Tcup, you are no different than the rest of us. You want validation and love and acceptance so badly you can taste it. Society has conditioned us to believe that mothers and fathers are loving, and the only accepting people in our lives. We automatically assume in our subconcious that it is natural to seek out these things within our parents. When it doesn't come we automatically believe that at some point it will. Viciously reliving the terrible abuse we do over and over to obtain that goal. Sick? Maybe, but its not our fault since that is what we are taught to do.

First of all, you need to release the past by telling it to a counselor. Let go of it. Do not own it anymore. The only way to release it is to speak it. I have seen miracles happen to people when they verbally release their past pain. It is a way of casting out the toxic poisons. Next, you must not go back to your parents to seek those things I have spoken of. Everyday, I can feel the pull and the temptation of wanting to call my mom and tell her about my day or what is going on with the kids. I resist that pull because I know what it brings. She will cross boundaries and start to pry in my life. Using the things she finds out about me against me. I want her to know nothing! My reasons are simple, the less she knows, the less she has to use against me in the future.

Your father is the classic N! You go through the same motions I have gone through in my past. That feeling in your stomach that makes you want to vomit, but somewhere inside you hold out hope it will be different this time. It won't. It never is.

So your first step after verbally releasing your past is to accept. Grasping the concept that things will never change. You aren't going to fulfill the needs you so desire in your soul through your parents. They just aren't capable of it. I am still going through my acceptance stage. I think some days I have gotten through it, and then BAM! I get angry again and then sad. When you accept that you will never get what you need you will become very angry and then very sad. For me, it is a lot like losing a parent to death. Because in a sense, it is death. The death of a relationship. Once the acceptance has settled in you can begin to heal. This is where I think we need to find healthy things to do and healthy people to be around. we have to learn ways to have healthy relationships. That is something I am working my way into right now. It is very hard, but so much better than living the life I have before.

Stay strong Tcup. You are worth so much more than you are given credit for. You can do this. I know the initial break-up is hard. But you will learn that you are much stronger than you give yourself credit for. Release, accept and heal.

 

[Overcomer]

You have to make the stand. Its all on your shoulders. You choose and then you stick to your guns come hell or high water. It does take time and lots of resistance to keep them away. It has been 8 years since I have spoken with my mother. She still makes attempts but I have never given in. I love the freedom she gave me when she left. I love it so much I refuse to go back. I wont give her an opportunity to make or break any new promises. I dont have to defend my actions. I am a grown up and the cost I pay for her to be in my life is much more than I can afford. It took years for the conversations with her in my head to stop but they did. In fact they only recently stopped. At first the days were hard; fear, guilt, then anger and resentment, then dread, then hope started to visit. A little at first then more and more. With hope came joy. I used to try to lie to people about what she had done because of embarrassment mostly but then I realized that meant I was protecting her and started telling people the truth. Mostly I just get looks like Im making it up but even that doesnt bother me anymore. I know Im telling the truth and now that I found this site and others that have experienced the same life as me. I have exponentially moved on. I have jumped the last few hurdles that were holding me back. There are more, Im sure, but I can handle them. You can find this same freedom but you have to resist your parents. Dont open the emails, have them go straight to a folder. Dont answer. Yes you will have guilt but tell yourself over and over that the reason you feel guilt is because you were brainwashed to feel guilt. Kind of like Pavlov's Dogs. Guilt is not what a normal healthy person would feel. It is something that was done to you just for times like this. Then remind yourself of what kind of human would do that to a child. You may even have to tell yourself out loud while looking at yourself in the mirror. It works. Keep posting that works too.

---------- Post added at 08:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:51 AM ----------

Your words brought tears to my eyes. Thank you so much. Yes your abuse is just as bad as anyone else's just because it is abuse validates it. It hurts you, tears you down and destroys who you arebut healing is just so sweet. I am even learning that I dont have to be the best at everything. I can accept who I am and just love me.

 

[victoriatcup]

jollygreenjellbBean, I am sorry I didn't respond to your kind post before. Thanks for your words and empathy, they are greatly appreciated. I have no idea if my parents are NPD for certain, but what I have read points in that direction. There are no therapists in my area familiar with personality disorders and no support groups for ACON's which I think would help, at least to share experiences with others and hear how others cope. I desperately need someone to talk to. I agree about the meds, but I swear I am too depressed to even pursue them. My husband passed recently and that makes all this so much more difficult. I have been to counseling all my life and I am so overdosed on them and trying to find one that understands ...and then there is the grieving issue - and I have been to all the counseling and support groups there are to go to...widowhood is a process that one simply has to walk, constant adjusting to adjusting. I didn't realize how dysfuntional both are families were until he passed and it hit me like a ton of bricks when I found so many people so angry and hearing stories of how my character was slaughtered and so many other unkind things. So I am very alone ...it is a lot to loose a lifetime of loved ones...even if they are icky. Now I understand why my husband and I kept to ourselves and didn't engage much with family other than the yearly or so get together events.

I just wanted to say thank you for responding to my post...I will think more about the meds and see if I can't get myself going again...I have been taking them on and off for years and have a stash I can rely on. Right now it seems about as much as I can handle to get myself dressed and let the doggie out.

Anyway...thank you for listening and your kind words.

---------- Post added at 01:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:21 AM ----------

Oh dear...I feel so stupid! I just saw posts that were to me and I didn't know they were there! All this love and kindness pouring out with my name on it...I am so sorry. I have to figure out how to manage this sight....

Thank you for those that wrote to me, I am so sorry I didn't acknowledge your words!

---------- Post added at 01:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:29 AM ----------

There are so many things you all have said to me that I understand and have experienced, too. I am not even going to try to address all that you have shared with me...but I thank you. It seems like the internet is the only place I can find some acceptance or comfort??? It is hard not to have human beings as a part of your life. I have tried making friends but somehow I am nice and then they poop on me somehow or take advantage of my kindness and then quit talking to me. Anyway, thank you all and maybe one of you can say something here so I can know I can come back ...once I find the thread again...and perhaps find a bit more peace while sharing?

Wishing you all peace ~
Victoriatcup

 

[Overcomer]

I wanted to say that after all of the conditioning and training I received over the years to accept and love and overlook the abuse a person like that dishes out I have found I am drawn to that kind of person even as a friend. I don't want to be abused but I seem to find a narcissistic person in a crowd and attach myself. Of course they love it. I am cleaning out my life. It seems fanatical if I step outside and look at it, but that's what I've been trained to do....second guess myself. Abusive people are abusive people and I don't want anyone in my life that is going to mistreat me. I need to breath. I need to find the real me and I cant do that if I'm under someones thumb. I am a people pleaser and I don't think that is healthy either. So now is time to choose who in my life stays and who I set free. I've started asking the good Lord to take those people out of my life that aren't healthy for me to have there and to bring people into my life that are who I need. I am seeing some movement in my life. I have had a woman that now rubs me the wrong way every time I speak to her. I am noticing that she insults me and my daughter more than once in every conversation. My eyes have been opened to some of the ways she has manipulated me and I am beginning to resent her for it. I am so thankful for learning this. I haven't shunned her cold turkey but I am weaning her out of my life. I have changed her ringtone to silent and don't jump when she calls, I wait before I respond to anything she says. She is unhappy with me now. We have been friends for 15 years and we have never exchanged birthday or Christmas gifts or cards and this year I received a card and gift from her. I could tell there was an ulterior motive behind them. Its like a noose around my neck. Not only was I trained to accept everything my mother did but I inadvertently was trained to accept the abuse others were to do also. Do people with NPD know how to spot the child of someone with NPD and target them? I'm thinking they might.

 

[H011yHawkJ311yBean]

Sorry I haven't been responding lately folks, I've been feeling a bit down lately (starting to wonder if it's a bit of mild depression) and have sort of been losing interest or, maybe that's not quite it... Losing energy, feeling lack of caring... No, I do care... I just am tired of caring... lol I don't know... Anyways...

You mom and my mom should get togther for coffee. They sound just alike. My mother does the Dr Jeckle and Mr Hyde thing as well. She will call and leave a very nasty message and then call back and sound so very sweet and sappy, but never, ever saying she is sorry. That is when she freaks me out the most. That terrible feeling in the pit of my stomach starts to rise up and I almost feel as though I need to throw up. Do you have children that your mother is attached to? I have 3 and they adore her which makes is hard because she loves that adoration. Explaining to my kids why we can't see grandma that often is so very hard because the picture she has painted of herself to them is one of perfection. I am not having to just extrange myself, but my poor kids who do not understand nor could they possibly begin to understand at this age.

Perhaps you could explain to them that gramma isn't well, but sometimes when people aren't well they don't realize it. You could explain that you want them to be safe. If gramma were to get some help, you would feel better about visiting her, but because she doesn't get help from a doctor, she isn't safe to be around people. Something simple. You could always explain more when they get older. If they do hang around with her, you could point out some of the odd behaviours. "You know when gramma says mean things about people, that shows that she isn't well." or... "When gramma says that you shouldn't tell me that she gave you candy before supper, that isn't right. Families shouldn't have secrets like that."

jollygreenjellbBean, I am sorry I didn't respond to your kind post before. Thanks for your words and empathy, they are greatly appreciated. I have no idea if my parents are NPD for certain, but what I have read points in that direction. There are no therapists in my area familiar with personality disorders and no support groups for ACON's which I think would help, at least to share experiences with others and hear how others cope. I desperately need someone to talk to. I agree about the meds, but I swear I am too depressed to even pursue them. My husband passed recently and that makes all this so much more difficult. I have been to counseling all my life and I am so overdosed on them and trying to find one that understands ...and then there is the grieving issue - and I have been to all the counseling and support groups there are to go to...widowhood is a process that one simply has to walk, constant adjusting to adjusting. I didn't realize how dysfuntional both are families were until he passed and it hit me like a ton of bricks when I found so many people so angry and hearing stories of how my character was slaughtered and so many other unkind things. So I am very alone ...it is a lot to loose a lifetime of loved ones...even if they are icky. Now I understand why my husband and I kept to ourselves and didn't engage much with family other than the yearly or so get together events.

I just wanted to say thank you for responding to my post...I will think more about the meds and see if I can't get myself going again...I have been taking them on and off for years and have a stash I can rely on. Right now it seems about as much as I can handle to get myself dressed and let the doggie out.

Anyway...thank you for listening and your kind words.

Wow, you have been through a lot. And I can't imagine going through everything you've gone through and on top of all of that, you lost your husband. 8( I hope you can find someone who maybe knows a bit more about personality disorders. I dunno about a stash of medication.... 8P... That kinda worries me... Are they expired? Are they still safe? Can you at least check with a physician to make sure they are still okay to consume? Some types of meds you have to start gradually on, and you can't just stop taking them suddenly. Sorry if I seem overly concerned, but my mother self-medicates because she is a nurse and has access to drugs and will bring home stuff and share it liberally with her friends and family. I took something to a pharmacy once because I had never seen a pill like the one she gave me, and they said it could be toxic if it was expired. So I didn't take it. lol

Anyway, I am up way too late... I think I will go to bed now...

 

[sunshine]

I tend to agree with Sue. I do not believe that it would have worked for me to just accept my mother with her limitations. There is too much hurt and every time I spoke with her she managed to touch my hot buttons. I think that the abuse was so harsh that the only way I was able and am still in the process of overcoming it is to cut all the ties with her. Once I did it I felt much better. There was noone to put me down and I slowly started recovering with the help of people who love and support me. It has been 6 years since I spoke with mother and I feel much better, more stable, more confident. I am much better of overcoming my fears now than I was 6 years ago. And I do miss the abuse at all. I feel for myself that I made the right decision. Maybe for other people, if the abuse was less severe, then there is a chance of reconciling, but for me that is not the case.

---------- Post added at 08:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:34 AM ----------

I just wanted to share my story with you since all your stories help me. I posted a bit earlier saying that I cut my ties with my mother 6 years ago because the abuse was so strong that it was the only way for me to get a bit more grounded before started working on myself. I stated that since these 6 years I am feeling much better. I became more confident, overcome some of my fears... But that doesn't mean that the problem is resolved. Once in a while the insecurity comes up (especially I am starting noticing it towards my husband - once in while I catch myself talking to my husband like my mother talked to me - and it scares me so much, that I become paralyzed with my emotions. I start crying because I feel like she is in me). It doesn't happen very often (and I apologize to my husband right away, since I am not planning on abusing him), but then for some period of time my psychology gets reversed to my childhood. So, even that I am feeling much better without my mother in my life - she is still there. And it's ok with me. I have my limitations and I accepted that once in a while she will come out out of me, but I should stop her (her voice, her behaviour) right away.

I also wanted to share with you why I think it was good for me to cut my ties with her. As I mentioned in my previous post doesn't matter how much I accepted her, she just always knew how to make me mad. It seemed to be her goal. She had to drive me into tears and hanging up the phone even if I tried to say "good bye" to her right before that moment... Nothing had seemed to work except my self esteem getting lower and lower. So I just decided that it was time for me to take care of myself and do whatever needed to be done so I could feel better and it was cutting my ties with her. It helped tremendously.

Once I calmed down I started working on myself and my self esteem. I surrounded myself with friends that loved me and supported me, I surrounded myself with positive people and cut ties with people who tended to complain all the time. 6 years later - I have to say that I made a huge progress and I do not miss my mother, I do not miss anything about her, because I do not remember a single positive thing about her. However she did come back to my life once - and it was a good reassurance for me that I did the right thing for cutting my ties with her. I got her out of my life in 2005. In 2009 I was getting married and I really wanted my father to come (btw, my father is a classic case of a narcissistic person partner - he obeys my mother in everything. He never defended me when she was abusing me, and I do have anger with him about it. However, if it wouldn't be for my dad, I wouldn't be who I am today - he is the only one who gave me also a lot of love when my mother was not around). But, as you can imagine, my dad is an extension of my mother so he didn't want to come by himself. He said that he wouldn't come with my mother - so I said, in this case, as it is very sad for me, because it's very important for me to have him there, I can't invite him and her together. I cried the whole night and then decided maybe I could try. So, they both got invited and only then my dad accepted the invitation.

Gets better. The wedding day comes, my parents arrive. My mother is dressed IN A TOTAL COMPETITION with all other guests. I will explain in a second what it means. Before that a little background on my parents - my mother is retired, my dad is working very hard to support the family and he hardly gets minimum wage. So, they just they enough to cover basic needs. Now, coming back to the wedding - my mother knew who was going to be there. When she showed up - she was the "STAR" of the wedding. The first thing that she told me when she saw me was not - "what a beautiful dress" or "you look so nice today".. it was about her it was rather "I knew that so and so will be there and she always has such nice hats that I wanted to get one too" and she had this hat that cost a fortune that my dad could never afford, yet it was so crucial for her to look so much better than everyone else there she had to have it. We didn't speak during the ceremony and I avoided taking pictures with her at all costs.

Then at the reception she decided where to sit and refused to sit where she was supposed to, was talking to everyone how great my sister was (my husband's parents took him aside after the wedding and asked if it's normal to be talking about how much she missed her lovely daughter - my sister, how great she was, how incredible she was - not a single word about me).

When the dinner ended and everyone was enjoying the conversation with each other, my mother got bored, because she had to be the center of attention, yet everyone found her to be quite rude and tried to avoid her. So, since no one talked to her. She got up in front of everyone and said - "all right, the dinner is over - shall we all go back already". That was the last straw for me. My husband took over though and I was almost bursting into tears. My parents left the next day and I knew that never, ever in my life this woman will be again.

It has been 2 years now. I have a absolutely adorable 1 year old now and my parents including my father didn't even manage to send a card to congratulate us. My father called me recently and said that he and his mother decided to disinherit me and leave everything for my sister (and it wasn't my father talking it was my mother who brainwashed my father). But the truth remains - doesn't matter how weak he is in front of her - it is his choice to agree with her or not. So, my relationship with my father deteriorated a lot (and I think that my mother uses my father to continue abusing him but now, since she cannot do it directly, she does through him). And, as you can see it is working as well. So, I am seriously considering telling my father, that for me it is not acceptable and if he is planning on following my mother's orders, than I will have to cut him out of my life as well. It's hard for me, but it might get to the point when it is necessary.

Thank you for listening.

 

[Runforthehills]

I am so thankful to have found this site. I am also the victim of a narcissistic mother and enabler father. Unfortunately for me I have just realized this and have wasted so many years trying to put a piece to a puzzle that will never fit. From this day forward my goal is to move on from their abuse.

My sister and I are the typical golden child (me) and scapegoat (her). Thinking back to my childhood it could have been worse. There were the temper tantrums my mother would throw, breaking dishes, holes in walls, screaming fits. She would come into my sister or my bedroom and take everything and put it in a pile in the middle of the room (clothes, toys etc) for us to put all away again. I remember this at age of 5 with no explanation. She always had a headache therefore I would never want to approach her. As I entered my teenage years she would lock the door and not let me in the house if I was even 5min late coming home. The first time this happened I was 12 years old. She didn't let me in for 3 days. Thankfully my friends parents let me in. This continued on and off until I was 16years old. There were times where I had nowhere to go. My sister would leave a blanket in her car with food. There would be snow on the ground and my Mom would walk by the car look at me and look away...no emotion. Did I mention I was 14? I was dropped off at group homes etc etc. whenever I would be aloud to come home I would have to sit through hours of lectures, me having to beg for forgiveness....all this time I knew deep down there was a problem with her but as a child you trust your parents right...?

Fastforward....20 years. This story is so long I have no way to write it here....it would literately be a book. This past year has been complete hell. I finally stood up to ,y mother after not agreeing with her favoritism over my niece. My sister has two children and I have three. The oldest being my niece and my mothers favorite all these years (she is 18). My mother planted ideas in her granddaughters head since she was little that her mother(my sister) was a bad mother, her brother is dangerous and it was unsafe for her to be there. Last year my niece decided to move in with my mother, after much grooming. I stood up to my mom and told her how wrong I thought she was. My sister is the most caring loving person anyone would ever meet,my mom just sees her as a thorn in her side, as she wanted my niece all to herself as my sister and I are grown and she was losing her control. Needless to say, since my sister I finally stood up to her she has made it her life mission to make us miserable. She has disinherited both of us...letting us know by text. She tried to sue us for defamation of character. She has turned the rest of the family against us. She is running out of things to try and get us to react so now she is trying to get to our children.

All of this and she will deny everything. She was even diagoised by a mental institution with personality disorder back in the late 70's but blames that on my father therefore dismissing it. I can honestly say that I have finally accepted her as ill. I cannot change anything. But I will no longer allow her to manipulate me, control me, put me down, and make me feel guilty. Like I said, there is so much more that I don't have time to type. I just want it to end, but like many of us, I live in constant fear of what her next move will be. She has the money to involve lawyers etc. but mark my words I will fight her to the bitter end so that she will never see my children. Which by the way, she hates kids.

I am hopeful to use this site as a resource. Sorry if I sound bitter....I am trying to get over my anger and fear.

 

[H011yHawkJ311yBean]

The problem with forgiveness is the definition... A Narcissist thinks forgiveness means they get a free pass to continue abusing you. What a NORMAL person knows is that forgiveness involves reconciliation and something on their part. If you aren't going to change, then how can you ask for forgiveness or apologize? And if you can't say "Sorry," and MEAN it, then you can't be forgiven.

If you have to protect yourself by going "No contact" that might be the only way you can truly forgive someone like that. Because when you recover and find yourself and find a sense of peace, only then might you be able to let go of the pain and bitterness and grief. It's like finally accepting the death of a loved one, only it is more like you are finally accepting that you never actually had them in the first place. If you accept them as they are: flawed, incapable of understanding love or being loved, only wanting and getting and not giving and wishing you well... You may even pity them, which is possibly as close to love as you can give them...

I think THAT is part of forgiveness. I understand that my mom isn't going to change, I understand I can't be around her, I feel peace... Well, I still struggle with occasional twinges of guilt or shame and question myself. But I just have to remind myself that she is the one who brought this upon us. The decision to go "No contact" wasn't an easy decision. It was really really hard. She pretty much made sure the role of mother committed suicide. She "killed" herself (or killed the vision and definition of "mother") and now she's dead to me.

I don't think rolling over and letting them continue stripping you down and turning the other cheek is forgiveness, I think that is sacrificing yourself, trying to appease them. Being afraid, being passive, being a doormat. Not looking after yourself (or your family if you have children and spouse)... THAT is NOT forgiveness, in my humble opinion.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

The problem with forgiveness is the definition... A Narcissist thinks forgiveness means they get a free pass to continue abusing you. What a NORMAL person knows is that forgiveness involves reconciliation and something on their part. If you aren't going to change, then how can you ask for forgiveness or apologize? And if you can't say "Sorry," and MEAN it, then you can't be forgiven.

Forgiveness isn't necessarily anything to do with the person who has offended you. It has to do with YOU.

See http://forum.psychlinks.ca/therapy-...giveness-9-steps-to-releasing-the-burden.html

 

[H011yHawkJ311yBean]

Right, but if you were raised in a religious background and were taught from the beginning of your young life that you are supposed to "forgive and forget" and "move on because that what family does, we don't hold grudges," etc... So you learn the wrong meaning of forgiveness. You start to think you are supposed to be a doormat because God says so. It's a favourite ploy of my mother and several others (in the Facebook group I frequent, etc)... Whenever their mom told them that they should "forgive and forget" they'd freeze... They'd think, "Well what now? I'd be a heathen if I didn't forgive my mother. I might burn in hell! OBEY THY MOTHER AND FATHER!! But somehow it just doesn't seem right when I am being mistreated... But it's in the Bible... " lol But it certainly made people in the group realize that their mom's/their family's definition of forgiveness is NOT really the true definition.

I agree with you, Doctor B. I could NEVER quite put my finger on what the problem with "forgive and forget" was until I really thought about it recently. It was part of the reason I felt bad that I wasn't reconciling with my mother. I don't feel so bad when I find this kind of thing (info in the websites) that defines/supports/articulates what I thought should be the definition and the difference between that and what N's think forgiveness means...