Getting Over a Narcissistic Mother

[heatherly]

Knowing what I know now, I wish that when my mother stopped speaking to me, after I confronted her in regards to her always putting family members down to me, that I had never gotten back into her life a year later, because after that there was so much more suffering, not just from her but from my sisters who were on her side, that I will never get over those memories. I felt too guilty to not have her or my sisters in my life. I don't anymore. But she is dead, and when she died I thought, Now I don't have to deal with her verbal abuse, but then my sisters stepped in so willingly.

I have one sister in my life now; she admitted her feelings and apologized, the other won't admit to wrongdoing. I blocked her emails; She is out of my life. She is the most narcisstic member in the family who is also a sociopath in that she has no guilt feelings, even sleeps around on her husband and says, "I don't believe in morals. I have always been able to have affairs." As time goes by and she doesn't respond to my asking her to be honest, to admit her wrongdoing, the easier it is to not have her in my life. I have also had the help of people here and the help of friends. I gave into my sisters once on a certain issue, not again.

Now the one sister is saying, "Life is short. your sister and niece could die tomorrow." And then added, "Families always have problems at funerals." I didn't respond, but if I had it to do over again, I would say that the ball is in their court, not mine, and that only disfunctional families have problems at funerals. Families who love each other don't. And why was I accused of stealing Mom's money when none of the others were? What did you have against me to begin with.

You know, I don't really care if they do. I never liked my niece, and my sister, well, i am tired of the abuse from her, her lies, etc. and I certainly don't like her morals.

And you know what? You begin to respect yourself more when you don't give in to their wishes, when you put your foot down and don't go crawling back to them.

 

[Frazzled]

I can relate to you because I too have two sisters. They are also on my mother's side and have not attempted to ask me my side of this whole thing. They don't understand the full extent of my mother's ability to lie. She has told them things that are not true to isolate me from them and the entire family. The way I feel about it is if they cared for me they would have talked to me a little to find out what was going on but to no avail. I used to be really sad about it, I suppose sad is putting it lightly, but now I feel as though I don't need them either. I don't see either one of my sisters ever backing up from their stance simply for the fact they are just as selfish. I have a tremendous amount of relief from being removed from all the drama that is manufactured from them with every thing. My older sister leads other people to believe that her husband is abusive to her and my younger sister is a cold fish. No genuine warm emotion from this girl, nothing. I am removed from it for now and I have no plans to change that in the near future. The ball is in their court. I have tried everything I am willing to try.

 

[heatherly]

thanks for your post frazzled. my mother used to say that she hates liars. my younger sister says the same. both lie. i guess they hate themselves. "hated" in regards to my mother. i gave my side of the story to my sisters, but they believed Mom's side. Sad isn't the right word for me either. What comes to mind is Anger, Betrayal and Aggitation. It really is a relief to have my younger sister out of my life. No matter what we talked about she would find fault with me in a way where you could not really call her on it, because if you did she would say, that isn't what I meant, or I didn't say that.

When I talked to my younger brother about the situation he had to say that "grudges" run in the family. All I want is a heartfelt apology. And when I said that my older brother walked into the house that day and all the kids told him that I stole Mom's money, and he said, "Oh, well, he has always blown up for no reason and left. That is just the way he is." I wrote him today and told him the way Mom was and how she pitted us against each other, and that my brother had every reason to leave the house, that he is the only member in the family who ever stood up for me. As you see, I don't care what my step-brother thinks of me either. I am sure he doesen't like my putting down our dead mother. Anyway, I hope that my older sister never apologizes because I don't want to hear her little digs when we speak on the phone.

Good you got away and are feeling better for it. I never thought that I would feel so good and free of guilt, although I hope the aggitation that I feel now and then goes away.

 

[Frazzled]

Yes, the threat of never-ending guilt. Everytime you are around them, there it is, the guilt. My mother has fine tuned the art of guilt and she has passed it on to the sisters. I have sworn to my husband that I will do everything that I can to not be like my mother. If I am confused about what to do I think about her response and I do the opposite. It seems to be working to the positive since I have been able to have really healthy relationships with other people. I had to daily remind myself that it is ok for me to not have a relationship with them because they refuse to let it be a healthy one. I can't force her if it isn't what she wants and it is clear that this is what she wants by the direction her actions have taken. Actions speak louder than words and that seems to be so true in this case. Oh well. We have to do what we can and that is isolate.

 

[heatherly]

Someday the guilt will be gone frazzled. I have used positive messages to myself too in order to not give in when they make me feel guilty. I kind of use it like a mantra and say it silently to myself. The one I used is, It is going to be all right. And it is. I always swore that I would not be like my mother too, and in so many ways I don't think I am. When I told my younger sister that I was not speaking with my niece because of how she treated me and what she said about my husband, she popped up and said, "Just like how Mom didn't talk to her husband's sister." It was kind of one of those "you are just like Mom" moments. It wasn't easy letting these people go because I always believed that you should always forgive people, that is, until I read this article that Jolly sent to me:

Narcissists Suck: Forgiveness Then I realized that people have to sincerely ask for forgiveness and change their behavior. Not going to happen. This article really helped me because I was always forgiving people and continually getting hurt.

Isolate is the best way to handle this.

 

[H011yHawkJ311yBean]

The thing is, folks, people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder don't mean sorry when they apologize. They just say they are sorry so you will give them a free pass or excuse their behaviour. Basically if you accept an apology from one of these people with NPD, in their mind, on some level, you're basically telling them it's okay to treat you like that. It blew my mind that my mom would always say sorry, and then find another way to show she wasn't really sorry. But then because it wasn't exactly the same offense as before, but just another type of boundary-crossing attempt to enmesh or display of unwanted behaviour, you couldn't try to pin down that she was doing the same thing over and over again.... So the next issue was a NEW offense, so you had to forgive her again, because, she would say, "We're family, and you always forgive and forget." It's like an endless stream of "I didn't mean it like that" and "I try so hard" and "Nobody understands me" etc that at some point you just have enough of it and walk away.

It's like someone gets out of jail for good behaviour, but keeps getting arrested for new crimes, and we keep letting them out, and they keep reoffending in different ways. If you kept a rap sheet for a person like that, it would be as long as the world is wide. Who lets someone reoffend over and over again without, at some point, putting them away for good. Give them the distinction of "Repeat Offender!" "Dangerous Offender!" "Very good chance will re-offend and is a danger to themselves and the public."

 

[heatherly]

You have that very correct Jolly. I just dumped a friend that has been saying sorry for 7 years or so. She would then continue in her behavior. I was talking to a friend of mine who said that she was contineous. I also forgave her because she would beg for me to do so. This time I just emailed her and said, "I don't want to write anymore." She wrote back, "OK." And then I blocked her emails and if she writes I will toss her letters in the garbage. These people know we are suckers. And it is always a new offense, same type of offense, but always something else.

 

[Frazzled]

You hit the nail on the head jolly. I had a hard time verbalizing why her apologies didn't mean anything. She is hard to pin down because she would throw it in my face that I didn't know how to forgive. She would give me an apology and then make me feel guilty if I didn't accept because it was an "I'm your mother" thing. She booted me out of her life because I wouldn't allow her to continue with her abuse. Her image, her story, her ability to be the victim was much more important to her than improving our relationship.

 

[dw4]

I haven't been here since I found out my mother was a narcissist this last winter. I have spent the last several months sorting all this out in my head. It all came to a head when my mother moved to the same town I live in in July 2011. I was very apprehensive about this move because I moved here 6 years ago to get away from her controlling grasp on my life. At the time she moved here my brother was still estranged from us and had been for 15 years. I was her only child at the time, and it had devastating consequences. After 6 years of peace my mother weaseled her nose into all my affairs once again. I have done a lot of growing in the last 6 years and it was war! I etched boundary lines that she was not prepared for and this caused many screaming matches and turmoil. I cut her off from me and my children to let her know that this was my life and she would NOT meddle. My brother came back into the picture after all this and my mothers focus shifted slightly. ALthough she had someone knew to focus on, my brother has NEVER let my mother rule in his life (obviously with 15 years estrangement).

After we reunited and began to talk I found out from my brother that he knew in childhood that my mother was like this, but he decided long ago that he would shut his feelings for her down. My brother is the underacheiver, but still very talented in many ways. I am the Mary Marvel. I have a very successful business, married to the same man for 15 years with my family in tact, almost have a BA in Paralegal Studies and compete in many relays and 5k's. My brother has been married 3 times, going on his 3rd divorce. His 3 children hate each other and only one talks to him. He is retired from the Air Force due to health issues so cannot work or he will lose his pension benefits from the government.

My brother helped me realize that my mother has spent the better half of my life manipulating me to do what she wants and making me feel as if it is all my fault when it falls apart. When all these things came to light I began to fight back, and I met up with resistance from hell. HOWEVER! I can't stress this enough, when you stand your ground you may be able to get somewhere. Since my brick wall was put up and my mother ran head first into it she has been better. Really trying..... I see her bite her tongue a lot, which makes me want to laugh. It must be hard for her to shut up. But I have learned to shut her up when she talks stupid. For many years I spent my life avoiding confrontation, feelings and dealing with anything. I am NOT the same person I used to be. My mother hates confrontation, but I make sure she knows that I am not afraid to confront her dishonest, gaslighting, manipulative behavior. JUST TRY ME LADY!

I admit, there are times I revert back to my old days and simply give up. But usually the next day I gain my strength and hope back. Of course, not without a lot of prayers to my God where I gather strength from. This reverting back in time does not happen often thankfully.

Is there hope out there? Yes... Should you dare to hope? Only if you are willing to change yourself first. In order to have a relationship with this woman I had to change me. And REALLY change me. I would have to say my mother doesn't necessarily like this new me, but I assure you with everything I am that she RESPECTS me.

My first break through came a couple of weeks ago. I was at her house making copies of important files when my printer was down. I began telling her about some troubles I was having (something I learned never to do!) when I began crying. For the first time in her miserable life she came and sat down next to me and cried with me. Encouraging me!!! She has NEVER, EVER done that. She didn't tell me it was my fault that I was hurting. She didn't make me feel stupid or bad for what was happening! I am so very apprehensive about this meeting, yet she has never used it to throw back in my face or hurt me (which is something she will do often). Could she have had ulterior motives? Probably. But for the first time, since I was a small child, I felt loved and accepted.

Dare to hope, but also understand that every situation is different. I know people out there who just can't have a relationship with their mothers because they are just wicked, terrible people. This is where I can grasp the part about "no contact". In fact, if they are that bad, they should stay away.

Is my mother this bad? She has been. Do I think she has changed? Maybe, but I never settle into a comfort zone with her. It can always change with those that have a need to be adored and in control.

 

[H011yHawkJ311yBean]

Thank you very much for sharing that with us dw4! That's amazing. I am really glad you had several years to get to know yourself, and learn about her as well... That can really really help a person become independent and develop a protective skin against that sort of poison. Glad to hear you had some healing time for yourself so you can keep at your healing process even when she's come to roost... lol The usual ulterior motive I can think of for her to display what might appear as empathy is that she's trying to draw you back into the dysfunction, but I sure hope that isn't the case. Sorry if I sound pessimistic, I just have a mother like that as well... I understand how difficult a decision it is to stay in contact or stay No Contact. Currently I am NC. My thyroid levels have come down several times since I stopped communicating with her last May. I can't take it as coincidence.... 8P

 

[heatherly]

I am sorry she moved to the same town as you. I moved home for a few years. I met my husband there, and that was good, but being around my mother and her pitting us kids against each other was too much. I found when you live near your parents and visit them you revert to how you were in childhood, or at least I did. And I was thought of in the same way.

Interesting about thyroid levels and stress Jolly. I imagine they can go hand in hand. Wish my levels would go down now that I am not so much under family stress.

I recently called my younger brother in regards to the funeral. He is the one who said that my younger sister told him that I was a klepto. Well, now all the sudden he doesn't remember a thing and says that I should "never be upset over anything anyone says to me in the family because they all love me." And when I mentioned that my older brother and his wife came into the house and everyone was accusing me of stealing $40 he said, "Oh, your brother always gets upset over nothing and leaves." I then wrote him a letter telling him what Mother was like, that she always said things hurtful when no one else was around, and that my brother didn't blow up over nothing, and that he is the only one in my family who stood up for me. And you know what? My brother did not answer my email, and that has been weeks. To me this is just another member of the family to cross off my list. When I told my other brother this, he said that he (younger brother) remembers but doesn't wnat to be involved.

The longer I am not speaking to my younger sister the better I feel. Most days I don't even think about her or my younger brother.

I am so glad that I don't live near any. I would have to move unless I owned my own home.

Good luck dw4 and hope you can break away because they dont' change.

 

[Sonya]

Hi. I just found this forum after many days searching the internet to find out what is wrong with my mother. After reading about your experiences, I now know that she has NPD. I have had no contact with her for a year but there is a big family reunion coming up and several of my relatives are begging me to attend.

I cannot believe how similar our stories are. When we were very little, my NM would scream at us "I wish I had never seen any of you!". She also told us she wished she had thrown us out the window at the hospital. When she was a ranting lunatic, which was often, she would tell us not to call her "mother".

In front of others, she pretended to be a kind, loving, patient mother, but when left alone with her kids and my Dad (enabler), she screamed, hit and threw things at all of us. I was so confused as a child. I believed that she really loved us, but in reality, she was only acting for the sake of others and to protect her reputation. Most of the time when we were at home with her, she was the devil.

I felt ashamed and worthless until I met my husband. He saw the good in me and made me feel wanted and loved. My Dad kicked me out when I was 17 because "the house wasn't clean enough". My NM had abandoned us once again and I think he took his frustrations out on me. Biggest favor he ever did for me. He has spent the last 20 years living with her. He has become a robot who follows her every command and has no life of his own. She loves working in the yard with him so she can scream awful names at him and have the neighbors as her audience while he cowers in fear.

All during my childhood, my parents fought constantly, and my NM would tell my dad that she wanted a divorce. He would say "Well, you're not taking the kids." She would laugh and say "I know I'm not". Then he would say "take these kids!". We were standing right there.

Sometimes people will give me a strange look if I tell them I don't have contact with my mother. People who haven't walked in our shoes don't understand it and I think some may think it is a reflection of our character somehow. Sometimes I want to pull out a list of the evil things she's done and say "do you want to go visit her?" Ha! I know why and that is all that matters.

Just wondering, Does anyone else find it peculiar that many NM's demand to be called Mother and Grandmother? Don't most people call her Mom?

I'm not sure what to do about the family reunion. It may be my last chance to see many of my aunts and uncles, some of whom are in their late 80's. I know that the NM has been invited. Chances are, she won't show, but if she does, I don't know how I will handle it. She loves making a spectacle of herself. If I go and she is there, she will probably make a scene. Any advice on whether or not I should attend the reunion?

 

[heatherly]

I think you should go to the family reunion since many family members are getting old. Just try to avoid your mother as much as possible. Spend your time with the older aunts and uncles.

I called my mother, Mom. I can see why many would demand to be called Grandmother or Mother--it is distant.

You grew up in a very toxic environment. Didn't all who had to deal with narcissists. So horrible what your mom said to you.

I think my mom loved us too, but well, so what? I never felt loved. There were good things that I remember, like she and I dressing alike for Easter. I remember coming home from school (high school) can coming in the the house and calling out her name to find her. I loved her then too. Often she would be in the bathroom putting on makeup for when my step-dad came home, and she would sometimes, well, often enough to remember it, tell me that you have to look nice for your husband so he won't fool around. How sick is that? Or rather, distorted. Those are the things I said at her eulogy. My brothers and sisters said so little, that what I said was about all that got on it.

 

[Sonya]

Thank you, Heatherly. It is sad but comforting to know that we are not alone. I really want to go and I think I will take your advice. I have decided if she does go and she tries to talk to me, I will take out my cell phone and pretend I have a call until I can get away from her. I really want to see my aunts and uncles, some of whom are traveling several hours for the reunion.

My daughter was my NM's first grandchild. She was not one bit happy about it, even though she was in her mid-forties. Before my daughter was born, my brother asked my NM how she felt about being a "granny". She screamed at him "I'm not YOUR godda**ed granny!" "Don't you ever say that again!".

Yes, we had very toxic environments. It taught me what a mother shouldn't be. My daughter asked me how I could be such a good mother when I had such a horrible mother. Nothing has ever made me feel so good.

As a child, I wanted so bad to believe that all mothers love their children, especially mine. I would sometimes spend the night with my aunt and uncle and their children. I waited for the door to close and for my aunt to start ranting and screaming at us, and I was quite shocked when it didn't happen. Until then, I thought that all moms screamed and beat their kids behind closed doors.

Very sick of your mom to say that to you. My NM changed personalities when she put on make-up. She turned into a sweet person. I guess because she was dolling up to go party with her friends and leave her unwanted kids for a few hours.

It is maddening to me that my siblings and my dad dismiss my NM's deplorable behavior as "that's just how she is." My younger siblings told me that they "blocked out" the memories of their childhoods. If only you and I could have been so lucky.

 

[heatherly]

It is wonderful to be told that you are a good mother by your daughter. I guess we learned from our mom's what we didn't want to be like. I wish my oldest sister had learned that. She blocked out a lot and would not even know that she is like my mom. i still love her and we get along great.

My mom always said, "I never wanted kids, but now that I have you I love you." But the first part is what I heard. The love never came through. Or she would say, "I couldn't hold my kids because your father would get jealous," and I think, "You could have held us when he was at work."

I grew up loving shows like the Waltons, Father Knows Best, Little Beaver, and Andy Griffith. I still love those movies, but Father Knows Best never comes on. I wanted a Walton family, but on purpose I never had kids. My first husband was verbally abusive, and so I just didn't want any. Even though he didn't hit me, I feared that he would hit our children.

My older brother and I never blocked out anything. My youngest sister was two when my mom divorced, but she is so narcissitic and now we are not speaking. I still think about that, why she couldn't even read my letters, why she lied to me. But I don't think about it as much. I also think of how she told me that she didn't believe in rules and how she has always cheated on her husband. When I was a child I thought she was immoral, well, I was 14 when she was born. There were things about her that made me think that she didn't have any morals or guilt, like putting her bra in her bedroom window so boys that drove by in cars could see it. Or when I met my first husband and we were dating she flaunted herself in front of him when I was sitting next to him. And how she said about her husband, "I have always been able to have affairs." It just doesn't bother her. And how she hates people who lie just as our mom does, but she lies.

My youngest half brother said the same, that is just how she is. His latest was, "Yes, she was hard to love at times." Now that surprised me. I thought that he believed she was an angel.

I feel that in many ways I am over my mom. I seldom think of her. I wish I could be over it with my youngest sister. Sometimes I think that I shouldn't judge her life, her immoral behavior. But she dragged me onto Second Life, a program online, and it was then that I found that she was having virutal affairs with one man after another and it was there that she told me that she has always been able to to have affairs with men, that this was just a different avenue. The men would break up with her and she would be in tears, and her husband would come home and see her red eyes, and she would say, My eyes are red from being online too long. And she would try to get me to do what she was doing by saying, So and so wants to sleep with you. I finally just got off Second Life and told her that I didn't want to hear about her affairs. But this is the woman who hates liars. And I felt bad for her husband, but she told me months ago that he comes home now and get online on the porno websites, but she doesn't care.

And I remember why her cheating on her husband bothers me so much. My dad cheated on my mom, and after their divorce she lamented over that even after he died. I told my sister that she was doing to her husband what our dad did to mom. It didn't phase her. But I feel bad for her husband like I did my mom.


Oh, well. Why couldn't I have had a normal childhood and family like some people? Why couldn't you?

 

[Sonya]

I know the feeling. No compliments without some sort of dig to make you wonder if she is being truthful. What a lousy excuse for not holding her children. I've read that they are incapable of feeling or showing true emotion. Not that long ago, my NM said "I don't think I've ever loved anyone". I waited for her to say "except my kids and grandchildren", but it never came. She told me the truth in that moment.

I don't blame you for not wanting to bring a child into an abusive situation. My older sister had one child, a daughter. My sister became a schizophrenic shortly after her daughter's birth. Both my grandparents on the NM's side were diagnosed with it years ago too. My sister became a recluse and we hardly ever got to see my niece. My niece came to visit me by herself when she was 16 and old enough to drive. We had a long talk and she told me that her mom (my sister) had been mean to her since she could remember. She said that she feared for her life because my sister had "rages" and went out of her head. We cried together for all of time we had missed because of my sister's illness. I had no idea that my niece was being verbally and physically abused. She turned to drugs and died of an overdose in 2007. Had I only known her situation, I might have been able to save her. I will never forgive myself. My sister was really not affected by the death of her only child. She went and bought a dog and told her husband that they could raise it together. He promptly filed for divorce. I blame him too. He was supposed to be the "sane" one and he let this happen to my niece and didn't protect her. My NM didn't help either. She told my niece that she saw signs of schizophrenia in her, and my niece believed that she was doomed. Of course she played the grieving Grandmother to the hilt and still spends hours at the grave site just for attention. She kept telling me that she wished my niece would die rather than be on drugs. She got her wish and now pretends that she gave a damn. It sickens me.

Your youngest sister sounds like an N to me. My NM had so many affairs and thought nothing of it. I can't count the times that my dad would put all 4 of us kids in the back seat of his car at 2AM and we would drive from bar to bar until we found her. He would follow her home, they would get in a fight, and she would leave again. What was the point???

I'm glad you got away from Second Life. Sounds like nothing but trouble.

I wish I had a sister who was normal because she is the only family member I still speak to, mostly out of pity, even though I will always despise her sickness for what it did to my niece. She talks to the NM daily and gives me messages from her like "tell Sonya I love her". I told my sister that our NM doesn't love anyone. She hung up on me. She lived the hell with me and used to take up for me. She even broke our NM's finger for hitting me when we were teenagers. I have lost contact with my two younger brothers. Both have told me that they don't consider themselves part of the "family". There never really was a family, I guess. I try not to think about my mother either. I wish my sister wouldn't bring her up every time we talk. I hope you have people in your life who are sane and who love you lots. I don't know what I would do without my friends. They made me realize that I am a worthy person. Hugs to you. Sonya

 

[heatherly]

Hi Sonya,

Of all the people in my family that have N. i believe it was my mother, my younger sister, and my older sister's daughter.

That is a shame that your niece killed herself. My niece was in drugs for a while, but she is out of that phase. She used to be beaten by her dad like we were as kids. Her mother and her don't get along all the time. But her mom really cares about people and was harmed by her growing up years that she remembers so little. She does remember our dad shooting at her.

I often wonder what my mom's parents were like? What made her the way she was? Often I think it is just genetic. I know my younger sister's son is a sociopath much like I believe her to be. But enviroment must play in it also. Like your sister becoming schizophenic. How sad to live those lives. I think of my sister's life, and how she isn't happy. Her husband tried to get her off Second Life and couldn't. He wanted her to do things with him. She is on there from the moment she wakes up to the moment she goes to bed unless she has to do something like eat or go to the doctor. And now she is in pain, and the doctor said it was because she is losing her muslces from sitting all day. She cries all the time as well. So now her husband has given up and gets on the computer when he gets home.

How sad that your dad would get in the car with you kids and go looking for your mom. My mother did that with us, but she was looking for our step-dad at the bars. He quit drinking after a few years into the marriage. She would have been afraid to look for our dad in the bars or anywhere. He used to beat her up, which I remember, my brother remembers, and my older forgot.

My oldest sister doesn't want us to put down our mom either but she wouldn't hand up. I remember when we were talking to the minister before the funeral. None of us kids had much to say, and that bothered her, so she yelled out, "She was wonderful!!!" Well, she and my younger brother (half-brother) were her favorites. My younger brother because he was not born of our dad, and my sister because she helped Mom pack to leave dad and left high school to take care of us.

Do your brothers speak to each other? That is sad that they don't keep in contact with you.

Strange that your sister was not saddened over her daughter's death.

It would be nice if you had a normal sister. It is good we both have friends. When my husband and I moved I left a lot of friends behind. Most of them eventually moved to Oregon. I count five. We couldn't afford to buy a home there so we didn't go there. Now I am making new friends, but I have not found any that I can relate to. The one I can relate well with, who is a perfect friend, is moving out of State in a month. The other one turned out to be somewhat strange. I wrote about her here. I remember Baxter standing up for me here, but I don't recall what he said. It was upsetting to me to lose her because we had many things in common. This new friend of mine was once her friend too, and when we finally went out to lunch, she began putting her down by saying the same things that I had believed about her and wasn't sure of. So it wasn't my problem after all. And I have met other people here that I just call acquaintences since I don't feel close to them because we have so little in common. One I call a friend, but it is such a superficial relationship. So most of my friendship are by phone. I have joined clubs here so I know people that way, and I go to a church here, Unitarian. You could say that I know more people in this small town than I have have elsewhere except for high school and college, but I have fewer friends. Still, it is nice to run into people I know in the stores or elsewhere and talk for a while. My parents had that in our small town. My step-dad was very social; my mom wasn't. When they got old my step-dad went to funerals; she didn't. She just worried that shew as next.

 

[Sonya]

Hi Heatherly,

I knew my NM's parents. I loved my grandma, but mother said that she was cold to her when she was little and that she was jealous of the relationship she had with her dad. Most N's think people are jealous of them, so I don't know how true it is. When me and my sister were little, and my mom and grandma were civil (they went for years at a time without speaking to each other), my grandma would tell us how mean mother had been to her when she was growing up. She hit her mother, ran away, and once, her dad told her to do the dishes, so she went into the bathroom and shot herself in the stomach! She was only 16. I can't believe she was able to have kids after that but she did. I'm sure her parents were afraid to make her behave after that. I could never understand why my grandma talked to us kids so bad about her own daughter. I would never in a million years tell my grandchildren (if I ever have any) one bad thing about my daughter. She is a good daughter and has always been, but even if she weren't, I wouldn't tell her kids! We called our grandma "Mom", because she kept us so much when we were little, we didn't know who our mom was.

Did you know your grandparents at all? I have found relatives (thanks to the internet), and found out things about my family that I never knew. Sometimes, you think you want to know but when you hear the bad things, you wished you hadn't asked. I do believe that genetics play a big role in all of it. So much mental illness on my NM's side of the family.

Not much you can do about your sister and the stupid Second Life. The computer can be addicting, just like alcohol and drugs. People get caught up in a fantasy life and forget about their real lives. It is sad. I think it is just an escape for them. I guess her husband just gave up. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

My brothers don't speak to each other unless they run into each other at a family function once every few years. They are total opposites. One is hard working and honest. The other is like my NM and will take advantage of every one around him. He has been married 4 or 5 times and he is only 44. He left his first wife when she was in the hospital giving birth to their first child! He never laid eyes on his own kid and she ended up marrying someone else who adopted my nephew. We've never even met him and he's 20 now.

My sister doesn't really have the capability to feel anymore, thanks to her mental illness. It frustrates me that she always tells the NM everything I say. She should hate her more than anyone because of how the NM treated her daughter, but she always says she loves her. I guess they both have fake love for each other. Neither of them know what it is.

I'm sorry to hear that your friend is moving away. I'm glad that you have "sane" people to talk to. They are hard to come by sometimes.

 

[heatherly]

What I found about narcissistics is that they are jealous of your having friends or even of your being friends with anyone in the family. Perhaps that is a projection when a narcissistic person says that someone else is jealous.

how horrible to feel the need to shoot oneself. glad she is okay.

there is a lot of depression in my family, my nieces, sisters. when my youngest sister told me that her daughter was depressed i told her about positive thinking because it worked on my depression over 30 years ago. she just questioned me, saying, what do you know about depression. i thought that odd because we were close friends in the 70s when i was severely depressed and in therapy for it. then she said that her daughter would have to work it out herself. cold. i was depressed for 13 years and therapists could not help. that is when i read about positive affirmations and within a month i was cured.

will you see your hard working, honest brother at the reunion? maybe you can get close to him again. hard to believe that the other brother could walk out on his child, but then that is what a N. does.

I guess in your case I would not tell my sister anything I didn't want my mother to know, but then whatever you say probably gets twisted anyway, and you may already only tell her things you don't care is passed on. I use to tell my mother everything, and what a mistake that was. Mistake to tell my sisters anything too.

Yes, the computer, especially Second Life can be addicting. My sister's friends were upset because she never talked with them anymore, just had her SL friends. She still has those friends but she doesn't pay attention to them. And when she and I were friends whenever I called her she would be on SL and so be talking to me and her SL friends.

 

[Sonya]

Hi Heatherly!

My NM doesn't want my sister and I to talk or be friends. She always tries to drive a wedge between us. Her friends are actually people who are younger than I am! I don't know what she gets out of having friends who are half her age.

One would think that your advice would be very valuable if it helped you get over depression. I'm glad that positive affirmations cured your depression. It is a devastating thing.

I wish your sister had listened to you. As you know, it is almost impossible to cure without therapy or some kind of self-help, like you did. I guess your sister just doesn't realize (or care) that it isn't something her daughter can just "get over".

I used to feel very insecure and sad about my childhood. It may sound crazy, but I talked to my inner child, who had been terrified of my NM. I actually hugged myself and told my inner child that I would never let anything bad happen to her and that the adult "me" would always be there for her. It helped me a lot and helped me stop contact with my NM.

I have been to therapists, but it takes so long to get anywhere with them in my opinion. It would take me days to tell a doctor about all I have been through.

Some of them just wanted to put me on anti-depressants, but they made me feel like a zombie so I never took them for long. I wasn't really depressed, I was just withdrawn and shy and had zero self-esteem.

I hope I get to see my "good" brother at the reunion. He actually called me last night and asked if I was going. It was good to hear from him.

I agree it is a mistake to tell the NM or my sister anything that I don't want everyone they know to hear. I can't count the times I told my sister something in confidence and she would always tell my mother.

How annoying that you couldn't even have a conversation with your sister without her playing Second Life. I think she needs to spend a little more time on her "First Life", don't you?