"Here's what you need to do and here's why you need to do it..."

[MaynardJamesKeenan]

Ive been reading everything under the sun lately. Awaken the Giant Within, The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, The Richest Man in Babylon etc... Ive even seen a psychologist more than a few times. What Im missing in my search seems to be a clearly laid out plan for what to do to overcome depression.

Lately ive been keeping track of my daily goals which has helped me accomplish a little more every day but I still feel like there are steps I need to take and right now I dont even see them.

Any books/ideas/resources that sit you down like a 6 year old and tell you step by step what you need to do and why each step is important? Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Into The Light]

welcome :wave4:

you may want to check out this link to a depression primer at this thread: Depression Primer: Excellent link about depression - Psychlinks Psychology Self-Help & Mental Health Forum. it explains things fairly simply and with humor.

my top 5 for beating depression

1. talk therapy (combined with medication depending on how severe your depression is)
2. exercise
3. socializing
4. relaxation/better time management
5. healthy food

reasons why:

1. cognitive behavioural therapy (cbt) will teach you to recognize distorted thinking and how to counter it by replacing the unrealistic thinking with realistic thinking. if depression is moderate to severe, medication will be needed or else the cbt just won't work as well. reason: brain needs a little help (all explained in the primer). also may sometimes need medication to help you re-establish healthy sleep at night.
2. exercise is really good for you as it releases endorphines and makes you feel good. it also keeps you from thinking and gives your brain a break from all the negativity.
3. socializing makes us feel better. we are social animals and need human contact. isolation makes us hyperfocus on ourselves and what we believe are all the things that are wrong with us.
4. relaxation is important to recharge. being depressed is a stressful state and is really draining.
5. you are what you eat. your brain needs vitamins and minerals to function well, not sugars. healthy food is better for us and makes us physically feel better and gives us more energy. help your brain rebuild itself using the vitamins and minerals. junk food won't do it much good.

other suggestions: avoid the news (full of doom and gloom), listen to music (but not depressing music, it has to be neutral to upbeat).

let us know if you have any questions

 

[Retired]

MJK,

Are you seeing a physician along with your psychologist and are you taking any medication to treat your depression and ADD?

 

[MaynardJamesKeenan]

MJK,

Are you seeing a physician along with your psychologist and are you taking any medication to treat your depression and ADD?

Holy crap. Its wierd posting in a message board where people help and talk about serious things. Its very refreshing.

The only two doctors ive talked about my depression with is my psychologist and my general doctor. My psychologist recomended medication and said talk to my doctor about it. My doctor prescribed me effexorXR which I took for about a month and dropped. I dont think I noticed any positive (or negative) effects from it and I still have the idea that I can beat this without medication. I am taking Adderall for my ADD off and on which seems to be OK.

Thanks for the link Into The Light

 

[Into The Light]

a month isn't really that long. you may not have given it enough time. i have also often heard that when people start to do better on medication it's the people around them that notice a difference, but not the depressed person themselves yet.

i do not know how serious your depression is. i know that everything i listed above will work ok for you if your depression is mild. however, starting at moderate depression it would be a good idea to consider medication. without it, all the other steps may not be sufficient and/or more difficult to accomplish.

it may take you a while to understand this but depression is a physical illness. the physical part of your body that is affected happens to be the brain instead of the heart or another organ.

in any case some things for you to ponder over

 

[MaynardJamesKeenan]

a month isn't really that long. you may not have given it enough time. i have also often heard that when people start to do better on medication it's the people around them that notice a difference, but not the depressed person themselves yet.

i do not know how serious your depression is. i know that everything i listed above will work ok for you if your depression is mild. however, starting at moderate depression it would be a good idea to consider medication. without it, all the other steps may not be sufficient and/or more difficult to accomplish.

it may take you a while to understand this but depression is a physical illness. the physical part of your body that is affected happens to be the brain instead of the heart or another organ.

in any case some things for you to ponder over

A few things...

I think about suicide almost every day (not necessarily doing it but thinking what it would be like). I have a few big 4 inch by 1 inch burn scars on my shoulder which are self inflicted. I have lost all contact with friends. My appetite is horrible.

on the other hand...

My family and co workers dont seem to notice. Strangers often call me "chirpy". Sometimes I feel like maybee Im just in a rut.

One of my big things right now is that I think depression is good if that makes any sense at all. I firmly believe its the body telling you to take a time out and get your things together. I dont believe its an "illness" per say, more like a symptom, like a fever. With a fever your body is purposly raising its temperature to kill off invaders.

 

[ladylore]

Welcome to Psychlinks Maynard. :welcome2:

I agree with ITL with this one in respects to anti-depressents. Depression has been medically proven to be a chemical imbalance (seratonin) in the brain. Anti-depressents are designed to right the levels of seratonin.

I was on them for a year. It took that long so that my brain could produce enough seratonin by itself. You may want to ask your psychologist about it, especially because of the suicidal thoughts. No one should have to live that way.

One more thing. It takes about 3 weeks on average to start noticing the effects and to start to feel better, and some more time to recieve therapy while you are on the medication to change thought patterns....

Glad you found us.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

Also, with Effexor you generally start at a small does, 37.5 mg, and gradually increase that. For depression, an effective dose range for Effexor XR is typically in the 150 - 300 mg range. Chances are, in that first month you hadn't made it to a dose that would be able to provide significant benefits.

 

[lallieth]

Hi MJK

Here is a book I highly recommend

Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy-David D Burns

Book Description

The good news is that anxiety, guilt, pessimism, procrastination, low self?esteem, and other "black holes" of depression can be cured without drugs. In Feeling Good, eminent psychiatrist, David D. Burns, M.D., outlines the remarkable, scientifically proven techniques that will immediately lift your spirits and help you develop a positive outlook on life. Now, in this updated edition, Dr. Burns adds an All?New Consumer's Guide To Anti?depressant Drugs as well as a new introduction to help answer your questions about the many options available for treating depression.

? Recognise what causes your mood swings

? Nip negative feelings in the bud

? Deal with guilt

? Handle hostility and criticism

? Overcome addiction to love and approval

? Build self?esteem

? Feel good everyday

 

[Into The Light]

does your therapist know you have suicidal thinking happening? this might be something you could try to open up about.

as for your co-workers not noticing anything - when we suffer from depression for the most part we are able to hide it quite well from people who don't know us that well. you say your family doesn't notice either, that only means you've managed to hide it from them as well. it doesn't mean that you aren't depressed. the suicidal thinking is a symptom, as well as the appetite being bad. the self injury is another problem that people just don't know about. is your therapist aware of the self injury?

 

[MaynardJamesKeenan]

Welcome to Psychlinks Maynard. :welcome2:

I agree with ITL with this one in respects to anti-depressents. Depression has been medically proven to be a chemical imbalance (seratonin) in the brain. Anti-depressents are designed to right the levels of seratonin.

I was on them for a year. It took that long so that my brain could produce enough seratonin by itself. You may want to ask your psychologist about it, especially because of the suicidal thoughts. No one should have to live that way.

One more thing. It takes about 3 weeks on average to start noticing the effects and to start to feel better, and some more time to recieve therapy while you are on the medication to change thought patterns....

Glad you found us.

Is it wrong then to think of depression as a symptom instead of an illness though? Wouldnt evolution have weeded it out by now? I can't imagine a depressed man having an advantage over others in the compeition of spreading your genes.

I know Im no expert so Im trying to read up/get opinions as much as I can.

David Baxter - I actually probably took EffexorXR for 5 - 6 weeks at a dose of 75mg. If things get worse I will probably go back on it.

Lallieth - I actually purchased Feeling Good by David Burns about a month ago. Problem is I bought it with a bunch of other books so its taking me a while to get to. Ill pick it up when Im done reading The Red Queen. Its good to know that other people found that book to be useful.

Thanks for the help everyone.

 

[lallieth]

Is it wrong then to think of depression as a symptom instead of an illness though? Wouldnt evolution have weeded it out by now? I can't imagine a depressed man having an advantage over others in the compeition of spreading your genes.

I know Im no expert so Im trying to read up/get opinions as much as I can.

David Baxter - I actually probably took EffexorXR for 5 - 6 weeks at a dose of 75mg. If things get worse I will probably go back on it.

Lallieth - I actually purchased Feeling Good by David Burns about a month ago. Problem is I bought it with a bunch of other books so its taking me a while to get to. Ill pick it up when Im done reading The Red Queen. Its good to know that other people found that book to be useful.

Thanks for the help everyone.

MJK

In regards to medication,it takes approx 6-8 weeks for the medication to "kick in" IE-starting to notice mood changes,slowing down of thoughts in the brain etc.Then the medication needs to be taken alot longer than that for stability to be reached.

How will you gauge "when things get worst" before you decide to try the meds again? what will you base that on?

 

[Halo]

My family and co workers dont seem to notice. Strangers often call me "chirpy".

I definitely can relate to this as most people that I have contact with wouldn't even know that I suffer from depression nor would they know the extent of it, even my family. I have had years of hiding it and become very good at wearing a mask for people in my life including my family.

With that said, this does not mean that I don't suffer from depression and as a result have self-injured and have suicidal thoughts which are a symptom of my depression. I can definitely portray myself as well put together and "feeling fine" to the rest of the world but what the hardest thing to do is to let down the mask when alone and when I am feeling safe in therapy especially since it is such a habit now to hide my true feelings.

As for Effexor, I was also on it at 75 mg and found that it didn't have much of an effect on my depression or alieving the symptoms at all but I did begin to notice a difference when the dose was increased to 112.5 mg.

If you are having suicidal thoughts then to me it would be a good indication that medication is needed and I would definitely suggest going back on the Effexor and giving yourself time to get a high enough dose that you will indeed feel the difference.

Take care

 

[Retired]

I actually probably took EffexorXR for 5 - 6 weeks at a dose of 75mg. If things get worse I will probably go back on it.

If I understand correctly, your doctor prescribed EFX 75 mg which you took for 5 to 6 weeks and suddenly stopped the medication.

My questions are:

Was the medication stopped on your doctor's advice, and was it replaced with something else?

What was the rationale for stopping the Effexor?

Effexor is not a medication which is taken for an acute situation and then stopped. This medication is generally prescribed for a prolonged period, years sometimes, because Effexor like SSRI's and other SNRI's re-set the balance of neurotransmitters in the brain thought to be associated with the illness of depression.

It is not taken like an aspirin when you have headache.

Stopping and starting a medication such as Effexor without the guidance of your physician can cause unexpected adverse reactions which can be avoided with correct startup and discontinuation procedures.

Depression is an illness, and your doctor knows the diagnostic criteria to make a firm diagnosis. As your illness responds to the therapies you and your doctor agree on, your doctor will be able to objectively evaluate your improvement.

You must work with your doctor and therapist as a partner in your health care.

 

[MaynardJamesKeenan]

My doctor didnt tell me to stop when I feel better. I stopped taking it because for the entire 5 - 6 weeks I felt it wasnt impacting me at all. When I stopped taking it I experienced no negative side effects. If I ever have to go that rout again Ill be more commited.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

You never made it into the "therapeutic range" during that time, MJK.

 

[MaynardJamesKeenan]

You never made it into the "therapeutic range" during that time, MJK.

Shouldnt I have felt something though? My doctor said I should start feeling some effects within 2 - 4 weeks. I took it consistently for those 5 - 6 weeks so shouldnt I have at least felt some negative side effects or withdrawl?

Also that was the time I really started researching the topic of depression. While Im no doctor I honestly feel like depression is my body trying to tell me something. Why take a medication that "covers up" your problem when you can search for the real cause of it?

Right now, on a scale from one to ten. A five being the emotionaly average person. Id say Im a hopeful three. Sometimes I dip to a two or even a one but thats getting rarer and rarer now. Would you suggest I take a serious look at medicine now?

PS: If you have time, or if anyone has time, please take a look at this Can Anyone Relate? - Psychlinks Psychology Self-Help & Mental Health Forum I just wanted to see what you thought.

PPS: Thanks for the help everyone. Like I said earlier, its awsome running into a message board where people talk about real issues and give a wide range of advice.

 

[Halo]

Right now, on a scale from one to ten. A five being the emotionaly average person. Id say Im a hopeful three. Sometimes I dip to a two or even a one but thats getting rarer and rarer now. Would you suggest I take a serious look at medicine now?

My thought would be why settle for a three when if you took medication and talked a little more in therapy that you could be a 6 or a 7. And also medication will more than likely help so that you don't dip down to a one or two. Although you say that they are getting rarer, it still happens and no one needs to suffer needlessly if medication will help.

Also, I believe in another thread you mentioned that you have suicidal thoughts and that is definitely something that medication and therapy can help with. In my opinion, I would seriously talk to your doctor about medication and getting up to the dose that you will indeed feel the effect.

 

[Into The Light]

Shouldnt I have felt something though? My doctor said I should start feeling some effects within 2 - 4 weeks. I took it consistently for those 5 - 6 weeks so shouldnt I have at least felt some negative side effects or withdrawl?

not necessarily. like i've mentioned before, people around you may notice a change in you before you feel it yourself.

the other thing is, maybe the dose wasn't high enough. i would recommend that when on a new medication and not feeling any of the anticipated improvement that you go back to your doctor so it can be adjusted. quite often anti-depressants require some fine tuning, as we're all different.

Also that was the time I really started researching the topic of depression. While Im no doctor I honestly feel like depression is my body trying to tell me something. Why take a medication that "covers up" your problem when you can search for the real cause of it?

depression is quite complex and there are many factors. right now all the literature suggests that there are biological as well as situational factors that may lead to depression (not all one or the other). i wish i could remember a link for you to go look at with more info on that. check the depression forum at Depression - Psychlinks Psychology Self-Help & Mental Health Forum, and i am sure you'll run into a number of articles.

the medication doesn't actually cover up the problem, although i do understand your thinking. the medication allows you to start thinking a bit more clearly and gives you the ability to actually work on your problems. among other things it helps restore your energy levels, which you really do need to be able to handle day to day life plus the things that may have led to your depression.

Right now, on a scale from one to ten. A five being the emotionaly average person. Id say Im a hopeful three. Sometimes I dip to a two or even a one but thats getting rarer and rarer now. Would you suggest I take a serious look at medicine now?

we can't really judge it from this distance. you need a professional's opinion. if you are having thoughts of suicide and are injuring yourself, then i would recommend you do consider it and speak to your therapist and your doctor and see what they recommend.

PS: If you have time, or if anyone has time, please take a look at this Can Anyone Relate? - Psychlinks Psychology Self-Help & Mental Health Forum I just wanted to see what you thought.

sure thing

PPS: Thanks for the help everyone. Like I said earlier, its awsome running into a message board where people talk about real issues and give a wide range of advice.

glad you've found us. psychlinks is a great place to be, with tons of information and quite a community.

 

[Retired]

Why take a medication that "covers up" your problem when you can search for the real cause of it?

Anti depressant medications do not provide symptomatic relief, as you suggest, but rather their action is on the actual brain chemistry that is thought to affect mood.

If you did not sense any change in mood while taking the starting dose of Effexor, then in consultation with your doctor in a follow up visit, your doctor would have likely increased the dose.

Everyone responds differently to medications like these, so time must be invested in modifying the dose and sometimes changing the compound until the right medication and dose is determined for you.

As David says, your brain chemistry was likely not affected as you discontinued the medications.

You need to persist and to maintain a constant communication with your doctor to report your progress, any changes for better or worse so your doctor can make necessary changes.

That's being a partner in your own health care.