My older daughter shouting at me

[lonely cat]

My older daughter is 19 and she is living with me.We are a family of three.Smaller daughter is 15.My older daughter is shouting at me most of the time.She is in such a mood that even it rains I am the one that make the rain to get her wet.She is very rude at me.If I shout at her things get worst.If I do nothing she goes on and on and on.I tried to talk with her very calmly,we talk for some time and she seems a reasonable person but afterwards everything goes back as if nothing has been discussed.It is like formatting a hard drive,she reformats herself.Any one having the same problems,or any way to sort things out.

 

[lallieth]

Tell her that if she wants to shout at you,then you arent going to listen until she can talk calmly,then walk away and keep walking away each time she starts to yell or argue

If you shout back and argue with her,then you are only feeding her anger and giving in to what she wants,and that is to upset you..

When my daughter starts to get mean or nasty with me,I refuse to talk to her

 

[lonely cat]

Tell her that if she wants to shout at you,then you arent going to listen until she can talk calmly,then walk away and keep walking away each time she starts to yell or argue

If you shout back and argue with her,then you are only feeding her anger and giving in to what she wants,and that is to upset you..

When my daughter starts to get mean or nasty with me,I refuse to talk to her

We sometimes learn by experimenting.I tried to yell at her before.As you said I was only feeding her anger.Then I began to tell her that I was not going to listen to her until she could talk calmly.That worked for a while.Now I walk away each time she starts to yell or argue.But strange as it is she follows me in the house,she does not know where to stop,she does not know her limits.I wonder what I could do more.This situation really makes me sick,angry and feel sorrow.

She also hits the doors and makes a lot of noise,or cries with a loud noise,maybe to take my attention maybe to make me feel unhappy.But all in the middle of this my smaller daughter gets unhappy too.In the past few years it is just like this;me a mother and my bigger daughter like a father arguing a lot and in the middle our children 15 yrs old girl feeling sorrow.
She is only a first year university student.She does not help for anything in the house.Only thing she does is to put only her dishes in to the dishwasher.She goes out a lot.I do not give her much money but my ex husband gives her a lot,which is very dangerous at this age.I also talked on the phone with my ex husband about this,but it is no help.He thinks he is a good parent when he gives money to his children.I have been raising my 2 children alone for the last ten years.He only wanted to see his children 3 or 4 times a year.I hate to talk with him on the phone,but I told him to see his children more,for the sake of them.
Yes I feel depressed again.No way out.It may be a good way to go and see a therapist.But how can the therapist solve this problem,I dont know.I again feel trapped.
Again I have to live with this.Too much for me.Living in a house thats like hell.Just want to live in peace thats all.

Maybe my destiny.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

It may be a good way to go and see a therapist. But how can the therapist solve this problem, I dont know. I again feel trapped.

You won't know until you try it. You already know that doing nothing will change nothing.

 

[lonely cat]

You won't know until you try it. You already know that doing nothing will change nothing.

I wish you could have given me a little advice on this situation.Since I am here talking about my problems honestly.

If you want help, you are going to have to provide more detail.

This was what you have told me before on post no 13 at section every breathe I take hurts.Thanks.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

You have already been given advice. Setting clear boundaries and establishing consequences for your daughter when she doesn't respect those boundaries is part of it. You indicate that this doesn't seem to be working. Your own suggestion of counselling - ideally family counselling to involve both you and your daughter but even individual counselling for you if she refuses to go with you - was a good one, and you asked how that could help. My advice is as posted above was "try it and see".

What have you got to lose by trying? Doing nothing will change nothing. Trying to get some advice from a professional may help.

 

[lonely cat]

You already know that doing nothing will change nothing

I am trying to do something.That is why I am here.Trying to find a way out,as you said ; I want to vent,and feel better,and by reading your and others advices try to find a way out.Your advices are really very important for me because you are an experienced doctor,others advices are important because the people here care about each other and may have had the same situation.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

As I said in your other thread, venting is fine and may make you feel better in the short run, but:

1. Venting alone won't really change anything. In this case, it will let off a bit of steam for now but your daughter's behavior is still going to be a problem and the venting won't have changed that at all.

2. You need to try to make it more clear when you are just venting versus when you are asking for advice. They are two different things. If you want to vent and you don't want advice from others, please make that clear so other members don't waste their time by making suggestions you have no intention of seriously considering.

 

[Jesse910]

Dear Lonely Cat:

As a mother and daughter of parents who divorced when I was younger, I have to concur with all of the advice that you've already received. Bottomline, you've got an out-of-control daughter who has been manipulating you for quite some time. If you want order in your home and life, you're going to have to get a firm grip and take it. For starters, a 19-year old daughter is an adult. And, if she cannot abide by the house rules, she needs to find housing elsewhere. You're the Mom! Secondly, while I understand the need to vent, it really doesn't accomplish much in the long run. If you want change within your life, you have to initiate it.

Take care.

 

[lonely cat]

As I said in your other thread, venting is fine and may make you feel better in the short run, but:

1. Venting alone won't really change anything. In this case, it will let off a bit of steam for now but your daughter's behavior is still going to be a problem and the venting won't have changed that at all.

True.But as you know if you vent at the proper time you will not get burst.That gives time to face the problems.In the longrun I may consider going to a doctor.When I am ready.

2. You need to try to make it more clear when you are just venting versus when you are asking for advice. They are two different things. If you want to vent and you don't want advice from others, please make that clear so other members don't waste their time by making suggestions you have no intention of seriously considering.

I learned the meaning of vent just yesterday.For me the meaning of venting is honestly telling what I feel.As telling your problems to your friends,as I am writing them here.

please make that clear so other members don't waste their time by making suggestions you have no intention of seriously considering.

I have and will be always giving value to the others ideas.If I did not I would not be here wasting MY and OTHERS time.I really want advices seriously to make my life better.

 

[lustorlove]

I know this sounds off the wall but, i have these same issues with my daughter .. I decided to sit down and think about everything that has happened in the past few years, to see if i could figure out where and when things went wrong with her and i.. In my situation 2 yrs ago my husband was arrested for assulting me (he suffers from depression, he went off his meds on his own and got completely messed up) (yes we are back together).. At that time my daughter was 15, not many people knew about what had gone on in our house but there was and still is one that manipulated and took advantage of my daughter during this difficult time. My daughter was 15 this guy was 22, needless to say this is when everything with reguards to my daughter turned for the worst. He has manipulated and taken advantage of her emotionally ( yes he took her vaginity at 15 ). She is now 17, the past few yrs have been H E double hockey sticks with her and only getting worse. Seems that he is her everything, no one in this house matters to her, this guy can treat her like dirt, break her things and she is ok with that, today i have come to the conclusion that she will have to learn the hard way, if she starts again today i will be having her removed from MY home. This is my home, i pay the bills, i buy the groceries. Maybe if she has to live on her own she will open her eyes. I have tried everything, i even packed up everything and moved us all 3 hrs away, just to put an end to it, which has not worked. So it is tim for her to learn the hard way and time for me to inforce tough love!!

 

[lonely cat]

For starters, a 19-year old daughter is an adult. And, if she cannot abide by the house rules, she needs to find housing elsewhere.

I did just like this.She stayed with her grandparents one night, she came back.Now, after my mom talking with her a lot she is trying to be kind.I do not know how long it will last.Just hoping to get things going on like this.

I know this sounds off the wall but, i have these same issues with my daughter .. I decided to sit down and think about everything that has happened in the past few years, to see if i could figure out where and when things went wrong with her and i.. In my situation 2 yrs ago my husband was arrested for assulting me (he suffers from depression, he went off his meds on his own and got completely messed up) (yes we are back together).. At that time my daughter was 15, not many people knew about what had gone on in our house but there was and still is one that manipulated and took advantage of my daughter during this difficult time. My daughter was 15 this guy was 22, needless to say this is when everything with reguards to my daughter turned for the worst. He has manipulated and taken advantage of her emotionally ( yes he took her vaginity at 15 ). She is now 17, the past few yrs have been H E double hockey sticks with her and only getting worse. Seems that he is her everything, no one in this house matters to her, this guy can treat her like dirt, break her things and she is ok with that, today i have come to the conclusion that she will have to learn the hard way, if she starts again today i will be having her removed from MY home. This is my home, i pay the bills, i buy the groceries. Maybe if she has to live on her own she will open her eyes. I have tried everything, i even packed up everything and moved us all 3 hrs away, just to put an end to it, which has not worked. So it is tim for her to learn the hard way and time for me to inforce tough love!!

You are right,my daughter also had a relationship with a married man.He is 32 and my daughter was 18.That man also took advantage of her.She says that he is her first love.She cannot forget him.He also has a child.After that love my daughter has become an unkind person who does not know her boundaries,and began shouting at me.I talked with her a lot I told her about my first love I tried to soothe her but she is very aggressive.

 

[lallieth]

If your daughter wants respect then she needs to earn it.She needs to grow up and learn that life is give and take,and that she can't spend her life taking or it will get her nowhere.She lives in your home,and regardless of her age,should be following YOUR rules,otherwise she can find some place else to live

I was tough with my boys when it came to things like this,they understood very quickly that I would not tolerate disrespect in my own home and if they wanted to continue having a roof over their head and food in their mouths,then they had better learn to act like an adult

 

[MDH]

First of all, take the initiative of being calm and placid when she's like that.

Secondly, assert the situation with interest. Passiveness and aggression are both utterly useless in any situation.

Also, If I were for instance the boyfriend of your daughter - or someone who loves her on a level of equality, you I'd find me much more worried about her, than what she's doing. I think most relationships should be this way, but in our culture we tend to make the people around us about actions and reactions than their cause.

-Miles

 

[Mari]

in our culture we tend to make the people around us about actions and reactions than their cause.

This is a major concern in my life and I found the posts regarding 'My older daughter shouting at me' causing great sadness. My sons do not shout at me but I understand that there is often more conflict with mothers and daughters. After my son died many of his friends and cousins behaviour changed so dramatically that they have required therapy to help them cope. One therapist asked my sister and her husband to change their perspective - to not look at the behaviour of their granddaughter as something that required punishment but as a response to trauma she had experienced. When they stopped worrying about the actions and reactions of their grandaughter and started thinking about the cause of her behavour they told me that the change for the better was dramatic. They are not even sure what they did differently from before but when they changed their attitude so did their grandaughter. Just trying to sort this out in my head - any comments appreciated. :heart: Mari

 

[David Baxter PhD]

I think your observation is spot on, Mari.

First, the reason many teens behave that way toward their parents is that they don't feel that their opinions are heard or considered. It's not necessarily about agreeing with the opinions of children and teens - it's just about allowing them to express it and have the parents actually listen to it before rejecting it.

Second, as I often say to parents, the first sign you will see of anxiety or depression or other mental health issues in teens is anger - which unfortunately can disguise what is underneath that mask of anger. But it is often easier to spot what's behind the anger if the parent can step back from it, not become angry as a reaction, and not interact with the teen in an angry way but rather in a compassionate way.

The message to the teen really needs to be something like this:

"I am willing to hear what you have to say and to seriously consider your opinions and viewpoints. However, you must understand that I can't do this if you are yelling at me, insulting me, swearing at me, or behaving in an aggressive or intimidating way, because that's not a discussion - that's just a rant. I also need you to understand that if we can't find a comfortable compromise between my views and yours, or if it is a physical safety issue, then I as the parent have a moral and legal responsibility to do what I think is best."​

Of course, the message to parents is also that if they want their teens to behave in a respectful and courteous manner, they must treat their teens the same way. You can't scream at a child or teen one moment and then demand that they respect you the next. Model the behavior that you want from your child or teen - give them a living example of what respectful and courteous behavior is like.

 

[Retired]

in our culture we tend to make the people around us about actions and reactions than their cause

In reading the various viewpoints in this discussion, I wonder to what extent cultural differences contribute to interactions between mother or father with either male or female children.

 

[lonely cat]

The posts by Mari and David Baxter are very true.I have been reading books about these issues and these posts are a summary of what I have read.
I have always tried to be a friend to my children.But strange as it is ,my 2 kids from the same mother and father behave differently.This is normal because we are all human, even twins are different.But believe me they are like black and white.Whatever you do and say,the social place they are in,the genes are very very important.If I had only one child I would accuse myself .But I know genes are very important.
The problem with my older daughter; she is in love with a married man,he has a child, he uses my daughter,he is older than her.Married man can love other woman its okay.He can divorce and be with my daughter I am not against this.But using my daughter while having a family is nasty.
My daughter knows that this is not a good situation,she tells me,we talk a lot.But deep in her heart she loves that man.Also deep in her heart she knows why her parents were divorced.My ex husband did the same things,he had many relationships with other women.She pities the man's child, and puts herself into the place of that little child.She feels guilty.I think thats why she is so aggressive.
She wanted me to let her go with him,I said you are old enough to take the responsibilities of what you are going to do,if you want you can go.But this is not the right thing to do.She wants me to say go with him.
But it is not a reason to be rude and not a reason to shout at me.I always listen to her.I think the genes factor just fits here.It is her character.

Thats all.