Not sure what choice to make

[adaptive1]

Sigh, I am just feeling a little lost lately and needing to put it in writing I guess.

My obsessive worrying has returned and it gets me down as I get frustrated that I cant control it or just accept it for what it is. I get one repetitive thought in my head the entire day and it last for months and months and months and it drives me crazy. I decided to go talk to my couselor about it as I am feeling tormented by obsessions and compulsive behaviour.

Basically she said that I have to make a choice, accept maybe this is the way my mind works and live with it , or if it is really interfering in my life, make a choice to do something about it. SHe said to call when I decide.

Since that meeting I have been quite down, I feel like I look like a pathetic loser that always has the same problem. I do want to accept that this is the way my mind works and stop looking for the answer to end my obsessive thinking, but I get upset when I have repetitive thoughts and I want not to get upset and I feel that I shouldnt by now but I still do.

If I decide that I am going to do something about it I dont know what that would be other than what I have done in the past which wasnt that terribly successful, it seems the only thing that helps is time until another obsession appears that is more tolerable than the last one.

I am so embarassed, it looks like I have not learned anything over the years and I have but for some reason I cant seem to stop fighting my thoughts and accept that this is the way my mind works. I want to make peace with this and close this chapter of my life, but I dont know how. I have tried not to post on here and exasperate the people on this forum because it does look like I truly dont get it.

I dont know what to do, I dont see the point in going back to talk to a counselor as I cant make a choice between the two options because I dont know how to do either of those things, obviously I am looking for my mind to do something that is just not going to happen.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

First of all, adaptive1, you're not a pathetic loser and I very much doubt that your counsellor would view you that way. Sometimes we all want to try certain less invasive or intrusive ways of managing our foibles first, and then when we can see those aren't working we move on to the next phase. I believe my doctor would confirm that I've probably done that with every new medication he recommended. So far he's always been right but that doesn't mean I won't hesitate the next time.

You'll have to remind me: Other than seeing this counsellor, what was it that you've done in the past that wasn't very successful? Has your counsellor recommended anything that you've resisted? And what approaches or strategies has your counsellor used in your sessions?

 

[adaptive1]

Thanks Dr. Baxter, I appreciate what you said because I feel so kicked in the stomach by what the counselor said because I know on some level, there is truth to it. I mean, of course there is a choice not to do compulsive things, it's just that the thoughts build up in me to the point where I cant stand it and I have to do something. I know I making the wrong choice when I do repetitive things, but it starts to feel like it isnt a choice, even though of course it is.

Primarily what we have done in our sessions is make a list of things that help when I am obsessing, such as keeping busy, exercising and doing something to distract myself. But it seems that these things are not working as well as they once did, infact I have begun to do some of these self help things to excess- looking for relief so I dont blame the counsellor if she is frustrated with me.

I have been able to stop doing compulsive things, but I have not once ever mastered my obsessive thinking.


I dont think I have resisted treatment, I tried going to talk to another counsellor once but it didnt seem to make any differrence, after awhile I find I just stop being honest with them. which is wrong but I guess I dont want them to give up on me.

Do you think there is truly no way to change this, is the answer just to accept it and stop looking for a way to stop it. Would that be better?

Thanks so much for your previous reply though

 

[David Baxter PhD]

OCD isn't something you can get rid of entirely and it will was and wane in severity according to the general level of stress and anxiety in your life, but you can certainly learn ways to manage it better. That said, I'm not convinced that "keeping busy, exercising and doing something to distract yourself" is the best management strategy.

First, I'd suggest that you read http://forum.psychlinks.ca/obsessiv...our-steps-dr-jeffrey-schwartz-brain-lock.html and think about buying a copy of the book: Amazon.com: Brain Lock: Free Yourself from Obsessive-Compulsive Behavior (9780060987114): Jeffrey M. Schwartz, Beverly Beyette: Books. You'll find other threads of interest in the OCD forum here: Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder :: OCD

Second, I believe that most people with OCD, especially the more obessional form, will need to take medication with some anti-obsessional properties, e.g., Luvox (fluvoxamine), unless there is some reason you can't take this type of medication.

Third, I'm unclear from your post whether the counsellor you've been seeing has any experience or expertise with OCD. If not, it might be advisable for you you to look for someone who does have such expertise.

And fourth, I'm still unclear as to the meaning of your counsellor's comment. On the one hand, it sounds like a rebuke for not following her advice previously. And yet I don't know what she has suggested that you haven't tried.

 

[Daniel E.]

I am so embarassed, it looks like I have not learned anything over the years...

A major point of solution-focused therapy is that we don't give ourselves enough credit:

http://bit.ly/bP9ETr

 

[adaptive1]

Thanks for putting this in perspective for me you guys. I did have that book to read once, I put it away which probably was a mistake and tried to do these other techniques.

I think the counselor was angry at me because I have quit doing compulsive things in the past but this time I told her I couldnt do it. So, obviously it isnt true when I say I cant stop, it is a choice not to. Not that I am lieing but I know I am taking the easy way out.

I do want medication, I have been thinking about it a lot. But, I was told by the counselor I don't have OCD, just OCD tendancies. So, I was trying medication but not the kind that you said, then I quit thinking what do I need it for. In retrospect I think it was a poor decision. I do want it but will they give it to me if I dont have a diagnosis of OCD from anyone?

 

[Daniel E.]

I put it away which probably was a mistake and tried to do these other techniques.

Brain Lock does recommend staying busy as part of the refocus step, so you may have always been doing part of it. As the book says, this third step, the refocus step, is the hard part that takes a lot of practice. As you may remember, the book says it's like constantly having to manually switch gears when everyone else is driving an automatic.

I have quit doing compulsive things in the past but this time I told her I couldnt do it

In Brain Lock, the emphasis is on postponing compulsions rather than stopping them.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

obviously it isn't true when I say I cant stop, it is a choice not to. Not that I am lieing but I know I am taking the easy way out.

Yes, in a sense it's true that you have a choice. But it's also not really a choice. The purpose of the compulsive behaviors, the rituals, is to reduce the high anxiety created by the obsessive thoughts. If you simply disallow the rituals, you need something else to reduce the anxiety. That is, in part, why I'm not convinced that the accepted wisdom of response prevention is really helpful, and why so often preventing one ritual leads to the creation of another.

 

[Daniel E.]

My obsessive worrying has returned and it gets me down as I get frustrated that I cant control it or just accept it for what it is. I get one repetitive thought in my head the entire day and it last for months and months and months and it drives me crazy. I decided to go talk to my couselor about it as I am feeling tormented by obsessions and compulsive behaviour...

...I have not once ever mastered my obsessive thinking.

Regarding acceptance:

Treating obsessing about obsessing or neutral obsession is not a matter of getting rid of the thoughts or images. It is getting to the point where you don’t care whether or not they are present. You might recognize that this is the goal of treatment for all primary obsessions...

You may feel this isn’t necessary, because your obsession is always there. But this isn’t true. Sometimes it leaves, even if only for a few minutes. Then when it reappears, your immediate thought is: “Oh no, there it is again; I can’t believe it...” Without meaning to, you are off and running into your wishing it was gone...

By accepting the reality, you will not have a perfect time; but you will have a better time than wishing would allow...Acceptance does involve loss. But it allows us to live in and appreciate the present. At this moment, with this form of OCD, enjoying things the way you feel you should is not a possibility. If it were, your OCD problem would be insignificant. So part of response prevention involves focusing on whatever little enjoyment is present and learning to enjoy the 20 to 40% that can still get through despite your obsessing. This means not avoiding any activities because your obsessing will interfere with them...

The amount of pleasure I’m asking you to appreciate is not the endpoint of treatment; it is the beginning...As I earlier stated, overcoming obsessing about obsessing will make life better. But it will not make all other problems vanish. Examine your life and look at any non-OCD problems you’re experiencing that may be responsible for some of your unhappiness above and beyond your obsessions.

http://forum.psychlinks.ca/obsessiv...lest-obsession-obsessing-about-obsessing.html

If you’ve done research on treatments for OCD, you’ve probably come across (or even tried) mindfulness meditation as a way to reduce your symptoms. In a nutshell, mindfulness techniques encourage you to simply take note of distressing thoughts, rather than trying to push them away or control them...

What struck me most was the philosophy of ACT, which is “control is the problem – not the solution.” This is the opposite of most other forms of psychotherapy, and often the view of people with anxiety disorders – if you have an anxiety disorder like OCD, you often want more control over your thoughts, not less!

Given how important feelings of control are in OCD, a therapy that targets thoughts and feelings related to control is very intriguing, as Dr. Forsyth showed evidence that ACT is effective in reducing suffering associated with OCD.

http://forum.psychlinks.ca/obsessive-compulsive-disorder-ocd/14997-getting-your-act-together.html

Emerging evidence from both mental health and basic psychology research suggests that treatment approaches that primarily emphasize changing our internal experience may not only have limited effects, but may even make some problems worse. ACT is one of several new approaches based on acceptance and mindfulness of the present moment. These approaches have been shown to be useful in treating anxiety, depression, substance abuse, eating disorders, trauma, couples’ distress, and personality disorders.

http://forum.psychlinks.ca/anxiety-and-stress/20576-the-worry-trap.html

Myth 1: Happiness Is the Natural State for All Human Beings
Myth 2: If You’re Not Happy, You’re Defective
Myth 3: To Create a Better Life, We Must Get Rid of Negative Feelings
Myth 4: You Should Be Able to Control What You Think and Feel

http://forum.psychlinks.ca/resource...rom-the-happiness-trap-and-act-with-love.html

"You know you're in recovery when you can say, 'I still have obsessive thoughts, but they're like any other that I have.'"

"If you live with fear, you don't really live at all. But if you learn to live with uncertainty, you will live better."

http://jacksonville.com/lifestyles/...ith_ocd_are_anxiety_filled_obsessive_rituals_

 

[adaptive1]

Thanks to both of you and Daniel I appreciate you pulling the links. I think I needed these reminders and this is good information. I do appreciate you taking the time to do this, thanks. I do want to move towards acceptance instead of imagining how much happier I would be if I didnt have this problem which is what I am doing, always wishing for it to go away. I guess I just assumed acceptance meant I didnt try to do anything about it, that I just kind of accept that this is the way it will always be, which is maybe what I should do anyway, because that is what I believe. I hope I can figure out how to master not caring that the thoughts are there because if I did that, there would be no need for medication, therapy or spending any more time on this problem.

 

[Banned]

Hey adaptive1,

I think acceptance is more than just accepting that this is the way things will always be...but it's also doing whatever we can to improve our situation and be our own advocate. I think just "accepting" that it is what it is is more like resignation, and that's often cheating ourselves of something better.

I'm not sure that it's about "not caring" about the thoughts but rather acknowledging them as just that - thoughts - and then continuing on...not letting them take over your mood, actions, or mind. Some people have found it helpful to dedicate a specific time of day - say 15 minutes after dinner to ruminate all they want over their thoughts. The rest of the day when the thoughts come in they say "it's not your time. I'll deal with you after supper". I haven't tried that technique specifically but I do try and not obsess about my thoughts until late in the day. That way they tend not to impact my day so much, and when I go to sleep, they basically go away until the next day. It works a bit for me.

Not sure if any of that is helpful. Please don't give up...it's just finding the right approach and strategy that works for you.

 

[Daniel E.]

I guess I just assumed acceptance meant I didnt try to do anything about it, that I just kind of accept that this is the way it will always be, which is maybe what I should do anyway, because that is what I believe.

That's how I felt about it and why I have become a fan of the writings/videos of Marsha Linehan, who has really spoken a lot about this tension between change and acceptance. In her DBT therapy (which inspired acceptance and commitment therapy), acceptance is seen as something that is required for change and just by accepting something, some change has already happened.

A metaphor I like:

[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Metaphorically, running from emotional experience is like being a bus driver who suddenly realizes she has monsters on her bus. She decides that she must escape from these monsters, and so she drives faster and faster. The problem, of course, is that the monsters are on the bus. No matter how fast she drives she will still have monsters on the bus, and driving fast creates all kinds of other problems in her life and the lives of others (e.g., crashes, tension, speeding tickets, etc.). DBT encourages the patient to slow down the bus - stop, and go back to greet the monsters. The monsters (her feared emotions) look and sound very scary, but in actuality are like holographic pictures. When you reach out to touch them your hand goes right through them. This is because emotional experience is just that, a part of who we are and, by itself, unable to harm us. DBT encourages patients to begin the process of emotional acceptance. By learning to no longer fear emotions the patient begins to experience herself as a whole person, not a compartmentalized self, made up of good and bad parts.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Lynch Treatment[/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[adaptive1]

This was all incredibly helpful, honestly I have felt so ashamed and upset with myself the last few days but this information is making me see things differently, thank you guys.