Seeking help

[poppy111]

I'm going to the doctors tomorrow, in the hope i will be referred for counseling. I'm not sure as to whether this is a step in the right direction, but there is a lot of things playing on my mind. That i need to talk about, to be able to understand.
One huge thing for me is accepting that what she has done to me and my siblings was unacceptable. To me, its normal, it was normal... all though i knew it was wrong. it wasn't so bad....? to someone hearing my story, it's awful. but surely she meant well....

i doubt myself, but when i think about the facts, there is far too much to ignore.... i wish it was all one big lie... that my mother always loved me, and that she was always proud of me... but time and time again these facts.... these examples... these events that are ruined... and blamed on someone else... the lies, the backstabbing, the swiping. it's just so destructive. And i have to get off the merry go round, and step back to see my siblings still gleefully sitting on the ride, worshiping her. they remind me of the 'flying monkies' from the wizard of oz, 'fly my pretties... and dont forget her ruby slippers, i want them most of all...!'

It's taken me years to snap out of it... destroying every relationship i had... to put me first... and then i wonder... was it so bad?

 

[forgetmenot]

I hope you do get a referral hun and i hope you get a councilor that can give you the skills now to take care of YOU first and to set boundaries to protect you from her abuse hugs

 

[poppy111]

i was a bag of nerves, trying to explain... trying to persuade him, convinced he would think me crazy. And while i'm saying i'm not crazy, i feel it more... maybe they'll turn up with their white coats and cart me off.
i told him how she bought me animals at a very early age, and then shot them, then told me because i neglected them, it was my fault she got my dad to shoot them. i told him she detroyed my siblings, marriages are ruined, custody of children granted to different people. its sounds like such a dysfunctional family...
he asked me how i was beside from my mum, and my nerves switched off, because i'm happy with every other aspect of my life. its just her, if i see her, hear or think of her.
but now i'm paranoid, has he refered me because he thinks im crazy, or because he understands that i need to speak to someone to get this off my chest. and to understand that what she did was wrong!

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[MHealthJo]

I am sure you will not be labeled as crazy. You gave specific examples of things and you don't come across as sounding 'crazy'.

Professionals are familiar with this stuff and stories like these. But with what you have been through it is easy to feel like you are all alone and it will all be put on you somehow.

Try not to fear that. You are doing the right thing and it will be so beneficial to be able to talk about it. Wish you the best.

 

[poppy111]

i hope so... i want to feel free.
i've found a book, the back sounds so like me... and while the i wait for my turn with the counselor, maybe it might help...
i feel around her that i must fit into a specific role, stupid, unattractive, rejected.... and if i stood up for myself, and tell her i was educated, she would instantly knock me down, you're not posh, you're not sophisticated, don't make me laugh... get that eaten. if there was a regularly brew round her table, i would it silent... not a word... because i was not as clever as my siblings... take me out of that situation, and I'm a leader, i lead the conversation, i encourage motivate and support... one thing my partner picked up on, he would say after... how come you take their abuse... well its easier to accept it...

i remember once, i was the 'best' in my class at college, a* student, i had high dreams... i wanted to go somewhere, and i knew how to get there... i told her....'get your head out of the clouds' she stopped my dreams, like popping a balloon with a pin...

You're Not Crazy - It's Your Mother! - Danu Morrigan | Guardian bookshop


Also available at You're Not Crazy - It's Your Mother!: Danu Morrigan: 9780232529296: Amazon.com: Books

 

[MHealthJo]

So sorry you had these experiences. It's just so opposite to the support that parents should offer. I am so glad that you can see your strengths and are finding the resources and support that can continue advancing your journey.

 

[poppy111]

the problem is whilst i find my path and salvation, there is a path of destruction behind me, and i want to help them, but my hands are tied. i care for my siblings, 2 of them are left. while they all tag team against me. they're lives are falling apart. and my mother is walking them to the edge of a cliff- that only i can see.

 

[MHealthJo]

Being powerless to help or change something like that must be a very difficult, awful thing to experience.

Caring for yourself and your life - the only one you truly have much control over - is what you are doing and is the biggest and best thing you can do. Nobody knows the future, but sometimes the healthy ways we deal with our own lives can gradually encourage others to think differently about theirs.

Although it's awful seeing negative things you can't control, I hope you can find some sense of satisfaction or some level of peace in knowing you are doing what YOU can - learning what is healthy more and more and going after that. Thereby showing the way to anyone who might eventually wake up and pay attention.

Sorry you're dealing with these tough, tough things.

 

[Darkside]

In my experience, the aim of a narcissist is to get you to think about them rather than yourself. The best thing you can do for yourself and your siblings is to feel your own feelings not someone elses feelings. This will cut across your grain at first and you will hear your inner voice saying, "you are selfish" but don't believe it ... it's a lie. The best thing you can do for others is know yourself well because that is when you will have the courage to step out and be able to truly be kind and help others.

 

[Katieann]

I've had a couple of experiences that upset the apple cart - in a positive way. One time when my mother was doing a "control number" on me... I finally
called her on it. I said in a very loud and strong voice: You will never speak to me in that way again. Do you hear me? You will never, ever speak to me like that again". And then I left the house. Went back later to move my things out. Yes, it was hard... no money and a small job. But the look on her face was worth it. Two months later she called me and said in a small voice: "Just calling to let you know that I'm taking my medication again".

And my father... when he would get into that button pushing mode... I would just say: "Pardon? What...?" and start doing something else - or change the subject. As in: Oh well.... that doesn't compute so never mind - carry on. But you can tell by the look on their face that you've disrupted what always worked for them before. And that is a very good thing for you. You don't have to be mean about it. Just do it, and then immediately turn your attention to something else... making the tea.. making a phone call... life goes on.

Darkside... your thoughts...?

Katieann

 

[poppy111]

thank you. so much for the positive messages of support.
i do think alot about what people will think of me, but i'm still doing what i think is right. and if i'm not right... well i dont know what to do... hopefully councilling will help



on the positive my life is going really well and other than this, i'm really happy and content.

 

[Darkside]

I've had a couple of experiences that upset the apple cart - in a positive way. One time when my mother was doing a "control number" on me... I finally
called her on it. I said in a very loud and strong voice: You will never speak to me in that way again. Do you hear me? You will never, ever speak to me like that again". And then I left the house. Went back later to move my things out. Yes, it was hard... no money and a small job. But the look on her face was worth it. Two months later she called me and said in a small voice: "Just calling to let you know that I'm taking my medication again".

And my father... when he would get into that button pushing mode... I would just say: "Pardon? What...?" and start doing something else - or change the subject. As in: Oh well.... that doesn't compute so never mind - carry on. But you can tell by the look on their face that you've disrupted what always worked for them before. And that is a very good thing for you. You don't have to be mean about it. Just do it, and then immediately turn your attention to something else... making the tea.. making a phone call... life goes on.

Darkside... your thoughts...?

Katieann

That is powerful ... very powerful. Finding your personal power is a huge step. Too often I find myself angry and frustrated trying to assert myself, and it doesn't come out right. It is a learned skill and you have to practice, but it also has to come from a place of calm deep inside.

 

[Katieann]

More details... the incident with my mother, I was in my forties. Back living at home and not doing well lifestyle wise. I guess you could say that at that point I felt that I had nothing much to lose.....and with my father I was in my fifties, caring for him in his illness, both physical and mental. So being able to "go the distance" became the long term goal...and what happens with a controlling person, is that when you do gain your balance, they then view you
(or describe you, even if you are being fair) as the Controller... the Dominator... the Abuser. ( I wouldn't let him smoke in bed and encouraged him to keep taking liquids and Ensure). And he told my husband that exactly:" She's trying to control me.. to take over... seniors are so abused by their children..."
But that was the dementia talking...So I would just say... Yes, that's me: Nurse Ratchett (from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest with Jack Nicholson - he really liked that movie)

So what comes first, the chicken or the egg? If the "game" is always set up so that you lose - why continue to play (at least in that way...?)
Even if you don't have the desired calm you would like - how about thinking of yourself as a bit of an actress/actor and give it a little try? When you see the change in the reaction you get you might be energized...listen for the shift in their voice over to a rather childish whine...and think about who possibly played the same dominance game with them as children...

Nurse Ratchett/Katieann

Good luck with your experiment.

 

[poppy111]

i cant find my power. although pushed to the limits... ONCE i boiled over and raged, and shouted at her for the first time ever. and i felt relieved... she just sat back looking at me... as if thinking 'i got you all wrong.' then told my siblings i was crazy.
it must take a lot of strength. i wish i had that strentgh.

 

[W00BY]

It does take a lot of strength, you will be made to feel very quickly when you react to these cues in a different way, as if you are being unreasonable and made to to feel as if there is something wrong with you.

Reshaping relationships is never easy but when it is a close relative it is even harder.

My father the very first time I stood up to him because he had crossed a line talking about my stillborn child, what he was suggesting at the time ( which to this day I cannot remember I was that shocked, disgusted, angered) made me throw him out my house without even blinking an eye.

I had never even spoken back to my father in fact I was terrified of him, two weeks later I got a very strange phone call from him telling me he was going to kill himself and that he was just wanting to say goodbye.

He effectively was trying to bypass the borders I had set up by playing on my natural concern for anyone in that position even more so a relative.

The more I set borders the more he behaved in this way and whilst dealing with my fathers behavior I was also dealing with my ex-partner who also has narcissist and other mental health issues coupled with the fact I just found out my eldest son had learning and communication issues something in me snapped.

I cannot still to this day be anywhere near my father I react in a form of panic type anxiety and it was only when this started happening I accepted I would have to do something about it or my children would suffer.

When you know that something is eroding you and making you react on the inside in a way that you end up angry at yourself because you didn't stand up for yourself, it's time for a rethink.

That age old... I should have said this, I wish I had reacted like that.

I do wonder if part of a narcissists talent is they can pick out vulnerable people who will be susceptible to their behavior or that they incubate it in people, maybe a bit of both?

What I do know is that the border with a narcissist is not static and the more you pander to them the more they push already unacceptable borders whilst convincing you that it is you that is at fault in any unfavorable interaction.

I admire people greatly that can deal with this and still maintain some form of relationship with narcissists, it is always tiring and trying, I honestly have had enough I actively avoid being around people who display such behavior because of my experiences and I strive never to get myself into pandering positions because of the anger I feel towards myself as a result.

Which is far easier to type than actually do, it does get easier the more you do it however I take nothing to do with my family at all as I would never even have a chance to set borders as I would be compromising the physical safety of both myself and my children and that I would suggest for anyone trying to reorganize this kind of relationship to ponder this aspect very seriously.

How will that person react?, will it endanger you?, that was the hardest thing to admit when I was in therapy was the danger my own mother and father posed.

You can restructure your life more in your favor and part of that is deciding what and what you will not put up with, it's not an overnight instant fix but with consistency people do begin too realize your not the you they thought you where and that things have in fact changed, hopefully in your favor.

 

[Darkside]

i cant find my power. although pushed to the limits... ONCE i boiled over and raged, and shouted at her for the first time ever. and i felt relieved... she just sat back looking at me... as if thinking 'i got you all wrong.' then told my siblings i was crazy.
it must take a lot of strength. i wish i had that strentgh.

Poppy, don't discount what you did and don't beat yourself up over it. We've all been there and it is a good first step to express your anger and frustration. I had the same experience after my mother moved to assisted living. She had drained me dry for over a year and was trying to get me to take care of her so she could stay in her house. I couldn't do it.

After moving she would call me 6-10 times a week saying she needed this or that, or where was her jewelry, and to go here or there ..., etc. Finally, one day she calls me about filing an insurance claim over her jewelry because she thought she had been robbed. (long story) Anyway, I told her I didn't think the person she had accused had stolen any jewelry and told her why. (for the 20th time) She then started working me over pretty good about how did I know that, and I blurted out, "what the hell do you want now mother!" She got very quiet and then hung up on me. My mother is a profligate liar and con artist and I had had enough. Afterwards I felt a twinge of guilt, but also some relief. I realized that after all I had been through I was entitled to be angry and I was not going to feel badly about it. Of course, I did feel badly - and still do - sometimes, but I also found some peace.

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Well said W00BY.

You know what I do when I get into a jamb like that? This is funny, but I focus on my feet!! I do this to stay in touch with my body and how I am feeling; for some reason I can do it through my feet better than any other part of my body ... especially if I am barefoot. The trick of the narcissist (and maybe anyone who abuses and manipulates) is to get you to stop feeling your feelings and feel theirs instead. They want (insist!!) that you to think about them. When I think about it, that is natural because the narcissist wants to be the center of attention, and if you are in touch with your feelings (body and mind) you are not paying enough attention to them.

 

[Ftbwgil]

Hi Poppy111

I read some of your story and oh my god.... its terrible and I can relate that you would think it was not all that bad and then people would look at you /me and say it was abominable what happenned. What happenned to you was wrong and I use the word was because its over. Not that easy to think that way but it helps. I have 3 siblings that still cling to the abuser and I chose to close the door on him. I faced him told him and then walked away. Its really dificult what you are going thru. The abusers where wrong, not you.... you where a victim. Nobody deserves what happenend and it did past tense. Be true to you and start saying to yourself that you are good and they where wrong. Its hard and mostly disapointing that we where not cuddled loved huged appreciated. We where hated or felt that way. At the end of the day they where wrong and today my abuser is still wrong as he has not tried to repair. And if he has not he never will. So I stay far away as i cannot change his ways. Any involvement with him will compromise my recovery. Sorry for taking some of your thread I got the feeling we had similar situations to work thorugh and thought I would share my experience. Good luck and please show love caring and apprecition to yourself ... that stuff takes a life of its own

 

[HBas]

I am so glad that you decided to go and see someone. Please don't ever think that you are crazy or that anyone else might ever think it. You had to grow up with a Narcissistic Mother and I cannot even begin to think how difficult that must have been! My ex boyfriend was like that and you go through hell and back trying to please them and eventually fall apart because there is just no pleasing such a person. The helpless feeling of failure over and over

You are looking for help which just means that you know you are not crazy, just hurting and it also means that you will get what you need to cope.

Stay strong, all the best.