Sleep... sleep... I need my 7-8 hours sleep

[Raina]

Since April 2008 I have been unable to get 7 to 8 hours sleep. I get three or four and if I am very lucky I get five or six but that is it and I am up for the rest of the day. It was in 2008 that my subparts took over and demanded changes in my life because my life as it was...was ending...

A river of tears came out of their eyes, all the stored tension in my body started to come out....all the pain stored in my body started to come out...memories came flooding back...I started hearing voices...what a mess...

The voices went quiet in July..late July thank goodness..they were driving me mad and my sub parts cried every day under the strain...I don't missthe voices and pray that they will go away and stay away permanently.

I just need to sleep....i miss the days when I was able to sleep for 12 to 15 hours without medication ...now unless I am medicated I get no sleep and even so I don't get enough. I feel like asking for a strong dose of valium that I can take three times a week so that I will just pass out or something but the doctor would never agree to that so I guess I just suffer....teas don't help...drinking milk before bed does not help....I woke up at 3:30 a.m. this morning and was so upset because I did not have enough sleep...oh if I could have three wishes in this lifetime they would be enough sleep, enough money and good health both physical and mental...sigh...

 

[Jazzey]

Re: Sleep...sleep...I need my 7-8 hours sleep....sigh...

Are you physically active during the day? It's helped me get a little more sleep, Raina. I tend to take advantage of those mornings when I wake up at 5 to go the gym. So that at night, I tend to sleep a little longer.

 

[Raina]

Re: Sleep...sleep...I need my 7-8 hours sleep....sigh...

I wish I could work out but my depression is too heavy....just clapping my hands or doing any monotonous movement even walking tires me out...I like to be physically active too...but just can't right now...thanks though...

 

[Daniel E.]

just clapping my hands...tires me out.

Really? Or do you just feel that way?

When was the last time you saw a doctor and got bloodwork done? What medications are you on? Certainly, SSRIs can help with depression, anxiety, etc.

.teas don't help...drinking milk before bed does not help....

What about seeing a therapist?

Since you posted in the PTSD forum, it reminds me that there is a workbook on insomnia for PTSD: The Post-Traumatic Insomnia Workbook: A Step-By-Step Program for Overcoming Sleep Problems After Trauma. But many books on insomnia pretty much seem the same for the most part.

.i miss the days when I was able to sleep for 12 to 15 hours without medication

BTW, sleeping that much per day is associated with an increase in mortality: Insomnia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I wish I could work out but my depression is too heavy...

But depression is associated with early-morning waking. So it seems safe to say your depression is being undertreated (which is the case with most people with depression or another mental disorder):

Sleep disturbances and depression are anything but strange bedfellows. Nearly all depressed individuals experience sleep problems. At least 80% complain of insomnia—difficulty falling or staying asleep. Indeed, early-morning awakening is a hallmark of the mood disorder. Another 15% of the depressed are hypersomniac and sleep excessively.

Where Clues Lie Sleeping | Psychology Today

---------- Post added at 12:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:31 PM ----------

I feel like asking for a strong dose of valium that I can take three times a week so that I will just pass out or something but the doctor would never agree to that so I guess I just suffer....

Sleeping pills can help in the short term but are not a long-term solution. For example, if your insomnia is secondary to depression, than anything that helps to treat depression, e.g. SSRIs, therapy, exercise, mindfulness, socialization, other positive lifestyle changes, other forms of self-help -- any one of those -- would be more effective than a sleeping pill in the long term.

Part of the problem with mood disorders is focusing too much on the short term: http://forum.psychlinks.ca/acceptance-and-commitment-therapy-act/27050-how-emotional-problems-arise-7-maladaptive-coping-behaviors.html

Another problem with both mood disorders and insomnia is a lack of self-efficacy, believing one has little control over one's situation in life:

An important determinant for adherence to CBT and behavioural interventions for treating insomnia is the perception of self-efficacy (a term referring to the beliefs in individual capacities to organise and implement the actions required to produce an estimated result). Despite the inconvenience that insomnia causes, commitment and motivation are required to implement the clinical recommendations of the healthcare staff (regarding sleep hygiene, stimulus control, sleep restriction, relaxation, etc), at least in the beginning. Some patients show little confidence in their ability to maintain the prescribed changes, and others will not initiate behavioural therapy because of low self-efficacy. The relationship between the perception of self-efficacy and long-term adherence to treatment has been shown, with the former being an important predictor of the latter.

Clinical Practice Guidelines for the Management of Patients with Insomnia in Primary Care

Studies even show that all you have to do is take control of a few small actions - and you'll be on your way to feeling like the master of your destiny once again...

http://forum.psychlinks.ca/resource...be-more-active-in-your-life-2.html#post190577

 

[Raina]

Thanks Daniel...very helpful...I remember there was a time when I could put myself to sleep by closing my eyes and focusing on the darkness...sleep came and it lasted for 8-10 hours...since I started hearing voices that does not work anymore...

I won't ask for the sleeping pill although I will admit that when I woke up after just a few hours sleep I was tempted to ....

A whole lot is going on with me...I had blood work done in May and my doctor was not too concerned....yes...just this morning I was clapping my hand against my side and I got dizzy and felt very tired...but I was able to go shopping...then collapsed...

I am getting a lot of rest...no commitments except for group therapy for the next four months...the hearing voices experience has done a number on my mind, body and soul...I think it is because of that I am so exhausted even though they are quiet now...they beat me up for over three years...every day all day except for the few hours that the medication knocks me out...it felt like I was trying to heal from trauma while still being traumatized by the voices...

You did give me an idea though....I have relaxation tapes that I can listen to at night....they helped in the past and may help now...that and a very hot shower or a soak in a tub of hot water with epsom salts...

Thanks again....

 

[Daniel E.]

I am getting a lot of rest...

By that, do you mean naps? As you may know, napping for more than, say, 20 minutes (or even napping at all) is frowned upon by the advice on sleep hygiene.

It's counterintuitive, but the treatment for insomnia includes sleep restriction.

---------- Post added at 03:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:40 PM ----------

..I think it is because of that I am so exhausted

"Who would you be without that thought?"

 

[Raina]

No not naps...just lying down spaced out or watching television or mostly just having it on in the background for company...

I have never been able to take a nap...or I just write about what I remember from my past...the information was not available to me for years so I write it down now when I remember...

Some days the most physical activity I can muster is washing the dishes and having a shower in addition to pacing in the apartment only to lie down again tired...not bored...just tired...

I got very little sleep in my teens...I was too frightened at night to sleep...I am just now in a safe situation so I am trying to calm myself on many levels and tell myself that the trauma is over...I lock my bedroom door ... so I think that is a big part of it...my body and mind are still recovering from being in a state of being on alert all the time...I guess I am using CBT...changing my thoughts...but it is taking a while ... on the bright side I have seen progress since 2008....then I would only sleep for two hours if at all...now at least I get a few hours every night...I don't have sleepless nights anymore...I guess that is just the beginning....

I've just been approved for long term disability benefits so I can relax and work through all of this...including taking steps to ensure that one night hopefully not in the distant future I will get 7-8 hours again without having to be medicated to get it...

 

[Daniel E.]

Some days the most physical activity I can muster is washing the dishes and having a shower in addition to pacing in the apartment only to lie down again tired...not bored...just tired...

One technique used by Neil Fiore is to imagine one's house is on fire That tends to remind people they have what it takes to at least run out of the house, if not to keep on running.

Another technique is to try anything for just 15 seconds. And then stop. And then the next day or whatever do that same activity for maybe a minute. And then slowly build up from there. (In one book, they suggest limiting the activity to less than one minute for four days, at least for dreaded activities like going on an exercise bike.)

 

[Raina]

Hi Daniel,

I read the post on who would you be without that thought...I question my thoughts all the time...there are a lot of things at play and I don't think it is any one thing but a combination....I am still in a state of fearing that the voices will come back...after hearing them since 2008...it is hard to believe that they have gone quiet and won't come back...I do self talk and repeat to myself every day that I am free of hearing voices morning after morning since May and when they stopped in late July I could not believe it....

Still educating myself about my diagnosis of Dissociative Disorder NOS and how that has been affecting my life all my life looking back...plus I tended to overwork trying to end my life that way in the past...now I am still...all kinds of thoughts are coming up...and yes...they change...the longer I am still the more I question... different answers come up and I can't be sure which is the truth...I realize it is a thought and that it can change with more information...insight...time...evaulation...questioning...whatever...

Two days ago I was in a state where when I was standing up I wanted to lie down...when I was lying down i wanted to get up...did not know what to make of that situation ... a day ago...I lay in bed not moving for five hours...not sleeping...just eyes open staring and not hearing a word on the television just aware that it was on sometimes...

So it is beyond me....the information you give provokes thought and brings clarity...so thanks...

 

[H011yHawkJ311yBean]

Hey Raina, my husband and I both have issues sleeping...

My husband David finds he sleeps better with white noise (like a quiet fan or air filter on all night), and his white noise is too loud for me, so I can sleep better with earplugs. I like the foamy kind because it takes longer for them to go squishy and small, and you can get them in large packs in case you need to change them a lot. Some people like the ones that are really rubbery and soft. There are different kinds. Really any little noise wakes me up. David and I both find it hard to get back to sleep once we are awake.

One thing a therapist told me about trouble sleeping is the negativity associated with it. In our mind we get annoyed that we are up in the middle of the night. It makes us more and more agitated the longer we can't get back to sleep. But he made a good point: we sometimes wake up for a good reason - either to prevent yourself from freezing because your blanket fell off, or to move so you don't get an uncomfortable kink in your neck, or because you are dehydrated and need a sip of water, or because you have to use the washroom. So if you wake up in the middle of the night, instead of asking why you woke up, just tell yourself that your body woke you up for a reason. Think what it is you need, and if you don't realize what it was it could just be that you were sleeping wrong, or having trouble breathing (sleep apnea) or having a bad dream. That's okay to wake up from... And now you can go back to sleep feeling better about waking up in the first place! lol

Also if you are a constant clock-watcher and that helps you get aggravated because you are aware of how much time has passed since you woke up, simply turn your clock to the wall. Trust me! This works. I used to get so angry because I couldn't sleep because I kept looking at the time, and of course that stopped me from relaxing and didn't help with racing thoughts, that's for sure.

I have found taking deep slow breaths and counting them helps me go back to sleep. If you start feeling thoughts creeping in, start counting and paying attention to your breathing... It's sort of like counting sheep. Also if you feel tension in any part of you (neck, or shoulders, etc) try to focus on relaxing those while breathing, either by shifting position or stretching gently.... It's so relaxing... It also helps like everyone was saying to try to do some stretching or exercise during the day (although gentle stretching and a hot bath is probably better just before bedtime, you don't want to do something to get your heart rate up before you are going to sleep)...

Before bed, avoid orange juice or other sugary drinks, or caffeine of course, or chocolate or vitamins -- those can energize you instead of relax you. Also about an hour before bed, start turning off lights and closing drapes and darkening the room. Don't listen to loud music or exciting TV programs. Try to do things in low lighting, and low energy environment. Don't answer the phone, even unplug it.

There was a study I heard about on TV where people who were recovering from cancer surgery or chemo felt fatigued so they would sleep more, but then it got to the point that they were sleeping and resting too much and still feeling tired and not healing as quickly. So this study got them to do some mild exercises (just some walking or pushing against the wall with a yoga ball, nothing strenuous) and the results showed that even mild exercise helped speed healing processes. I would recommend doing something mild, even just stretching or walking (even if it's just touching your toes while you sit on the floor watching TV or going to the corner store to get milk or a newspaper) even if it's a little tough to do it. And keep as hydrated with liquids as you can, and make sure you are eating, even several little meals a day. Soup even. Because if you aren't that could be why you feel so spent after just clapping your hands. However, if you are eating properly, and you are worried that you lack the strength and energy to do much I agree with Daniel that you might want to check with your doctor/therapist about adjusting your medication or making sure your fatigue isn't related to some other physical ailment.

Hope this helps a bit!

 

[Daniel E.]

....I am still in a state of fearing that the voices will come back..

Are you referring to hallucinations? If so, antipsychotics would help if such voices returned. And, of course, people with anxiety tend to awfulize about what may happen in the future -- they not not only worry about the future but see some future possibilities as horrible and intolerable (overestimating the "badness" of the situation and underestimating their ability to cope).

 

[Raina]

It does help jollygreenjellybean...thanks for sharing...

When I woke up this morning I asked myself why my body woke up...what it needed because it was so sudden and did not come up with anything...so I tried not to stress and moved to the living room and lay on the couch and went on the computer and played games for a while...

One of my nurses suggested that I drink hot milk each night before going to sleep and I have done it each night since she told me...slowly working on sleep hygiene as ideas are given to me....I stopped watching the clock and when I was working last year I would just set the alarm and listen for that but I always beat it...I was always up long before it was time to get up...

Daniel...I guess I do the house on fire thing when I have to go to group therapy....I don't want to leave the house but I get dressed and walk out the door and keep going...it is like parts of me have the strength to do what needs to be done...other parts of me need to be still and all parts of me need more sleep...

I even tried to tell myself that I was getting enough sleep but I would wake up and my mind would say...what are you doing...I'm not finished sleeping...but my eyes would stay open...

---------- Post added at 03:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:46 PM ----------

I am on antipsychotics Daniel and have been since 1997 but they don't help with my auditory hallucinations...they come and go as they please medication in my system an everything....

 

[AmZ]

Raina, I hope you find a solution soon and start sleeping and feeling better. I totally understand you when you are saying how difficult it is to not be sleeping properly. I've also been waking up very early in the morning and not managing to get back to sleep. The sleeping pills help me fall asleep but don't keep me asleep.

When do you start your group therapy?
How often do you see your psychiatrist?

Feel good.

 

[Raina]

Hi Amz...I am looking for a new therapist and have a case manager that I see once a week...I won't be seeing my psychiatrist again until November...you are so right when you say the pills get you to sleep but don't keep you asleep...once you're up you're up....

Group therapy is Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday...each group is two hours llong but the travel time is about the same each way (two hours)...they are very far from my home but I go anyway because I know I will get something out of them and meet new people. I am very isolated...which is sometimes a good thing because between 2000 and 2008 I was very social although I did not feel well and made a lot of mistakes and really got hurt...so now I am able to think back and think of ways I would handle a lot of things differently...so while I am lonely...I am making use of this quiet tiime. I figure I can learn from my past and do better in some aspects of my life in the future.

One thing I would do differently is be selective about who I associate with...it will have to be people that I have enough in common with to keep it interesting for me...and I want more balanced and equal relationships and I won't spend time with people that make me feel bad about myself or are highly critical of me or my lifestyle or my condition. My exit word will be when someone tells me to get over something....once I get that I will create distance but first I will tell them that I will get over it in time...I cannot wave a magic wand and get over it...that happened at lot to me in the past and I have decided that I am not interested in having that moving forward.

Thank you for your support...one of the women I met in groups in the past called me close to bed time and we talked about our situations...we had so much in common the conversation lasted for over an hour and I felt so relaxed afterward that I slept for 6 hours last night...I was thrilled...I don't have the energy to leave the house today but will go to my group tomorrow...