Spanking: When parents lift their hands

[MDH]

Looking over this again today, it bothers me that she manages to avoid my point throughout her whole post.

Like at the point where I said that corporal punishment in her case was just being used as a tool where any other form of communication could work (In other words you don't have to hit, you could do anything else (there's a whole world out there) to convey the same point -- or better yet use something more logical).

Additionally I never said anything about her daughter being "afraid of her". I said the point was, it was fear at work in general. And if it wasn't fear at work, nothing else can be ruled out other than that corporal punishment was being used as a placebo for what could be a simple word (or a few) -- Or just about anything. It's a lack of explination as to the actual problem. That's what bothers me.

A smack replacing a lack of communication is just the same damn thing as it was with wives in the 50's. And do you know what? It was a while before women stood up and agreed with an esoteric few that it wasn't okay for them to be hit. Children are more vulnurable and significantly more gullible (or simply too open minded for this world full of things like corporal punishment) so they're bound to agree. They have no choice in a very literal sense.

It's THAT KIND OF THING that in my opinion makes people mindless...

And besides, honestly - where's your humane side people?

Would you prefer it if someone smacked you whenever they felt you went "over the line"?

MDH OUT.

 

[Into The Light]

i understand how passionate you are about this, and i agree that corporal punishment is not the way to go. before children i used to believe a smack could be used if nothing else worked, but i have since learned that i never need to resort to that. i have other ways of disciplining my children.

a lot of people have grown up with receiving corporal punishment, and because of this they think it's ok. i too have been smacked, but i can only remember one or two incidents, and i think it was frustration on my parents' part. but i digress. my point is, because of this, i used to think that it would be ok in extreme cases, but since having my own children i have realized that this is simply something i cannot bring myself to do. it just feels wrong.

it's hard to change people's opinion on this when they've grown up with being hit or smacked themselves. it's what they know, and think is effective. my opinion has changed over time, and i am sure that in general it is changing in the public as well.

 

[Stompgal]

Earlier this year, Prime Minister Gordon Brown was planning to ban smacking (what we call it in Britain) but last month it was announced that the Governement missed out on it because most people voted that smacking shouldn't be banned. Well those people are wrong. I think it should be banned because, in my opinion, a smack-free shop is a safe, friendly and happy shop. Even the NSPCC responded to the Government saying that they weren't happy about their opinion.

This is what I think could happen to parents if they are caught smacking their children in public (N.B. The news story I created below is fake). The last word that was cut is 'October.'

http://getclippings.com/image.php?id=661519

 

[MDH]

Thought @ around 7:20 this morning...

A bully is someone who often causes some form of displeasure for your kid in order to get what they want (lunch money etc) for some form of emotional satisfaction.

A parent is someone who often causes some form of displeasure for your kid in order to get what they want (conformity to adult ethics, instant stress relief) for some form of emotional satisfaction.

Two definitions, one behavior, and one cause.

-MDH Out.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

Well, I do think in most cases the intent and the goal are different from simple bullying but that doesn't mean there isn't a negative impact on the child or a negative message delivered to the child in both cases... in both cases, the bottom line message is "might makes right" and "the way to solve disagreements or conflicts is through physical aggression".

 

[MollyK]

Interesting subject, there is a lot of discussion around in the UK at the moment and motions to make smacking children illegal (which hasnt happened yet).

I grew up in a household where there was excessive violence from my father, we were hit with a belt, kicked punched and it was never about what you had done wrong but about what mood he was in. The monster "belt" hung from the wall on a nail and just its presence felt degrading and humiliating. I dont think I grew up excessively agressive however, but I wasnt afraid of anyone at school and sometimes got in physical fights. It was an inclination of mine to want to hit someone when there was a quarel and I had to "sit on it" as I realised this inclination was totally inappropriate, it eventually left me all together in my teens thankfully . But it was impossible to have a close bond with my father because I always saw him as a bully and I still have physical scars from him today.

The thought of hitting my own children therefore who I love dearly is pretty abhorent and I believe it is perfectly possible to bring children up with boundaries and discipline without ever hitting them. Hitting your child is invariably because the parent has "lost it". I think when a child is learning through humiliation and fear of violence, its not learning to develop self discipline or a moral sense of what is right or wrong but doing something or refraining from something because someone much bigger and stronger than them who has all the power will hit them.

I think there is a grey area with smacking though. Some argue that if a toddler repeatedly touches a fire that they do not have the capacity to understand an explanation of why not but a tap on the hand saying "no" is sometimes more appropriate. Even here I think its giving a child all the wrong messages and there are other sanctions that are more effective forms of discipline, a naughty step, withdrawal of a treat, a firm "no" or a telling off.

I believe hitting a child is morally wrong and will give them wrong messages that they will ultimately have to unlearn; unfortunately there are vast degrees of smacking and I am not so sure it would ever be really enforceable.

 

[lallieth]

I grew up where the threat of a good spanking,with a belt was ever present..I know my brothers got the belt,I was threatened with it once by my dad,when my mom intervened and told my father "if you ever touch her,it will be the last thing you do"

As for my own kids,I never felt the need to spank them.I do however,admit to giving my oldest daughter a swat on the backside for continously running out to the road when she was 2...

I did not "talk" to my kids when they were young,I didn't feel the need to have to explain myself each time I felt their behaviour was inappropriate.I felt a "because I told you so" was sufficient
I do believe that discipline must make enough of an impact for the child to learn a valuable lesson,but that doesn't mean you need to spank a child to make an impact..Setting rules and boundaries and enforcing them works wonders.

I have raised 3 older boys on the above principles and now raising two daughters,and I can say with confidence and pride my kids are respectful and generally good people

 

[David Baxter PhD]

What message do you give a child with "because I told you so"?

 

[lallieth]

The message I convey is that I am the adult and have more experience in any given matter and don't feel the need to give them an explanation for each thing I ask them to do.

 

[MDH]

The kids must be mind blowingly psychic to comprehensively understand that.

Kids instinctively look for protection and mimick parental behaviors but it's not natural for them to understand a message like that.

 

[meagan80]

I think one of the biggest mistakes made is that some parents look at children as something to force into what they want them to be. Some parents do not respect there children and look at them like humans. They feel that the only way to make them into these perfect little sidekicks that dare not jump around and embarrass them in public is to spank them. I also think that some parents do not set and enforce consistent boundaries for there children and then are shocked when they are running all over them, which I have seen resulting in them spanking there children.

I have a very well behaved daughter that I have never spanked, I understand that it could be that I am lucky and that all children are different, but I honestly believe that talking to your child and explaining the reason you do not want them to do certain things works. I believe that it forms a strong bond and understanding of things. When she has tested me, I am firm with her without yelling and explain why what she is doing is upsetting me and send her to her room. I guess really I could go on and on, on this issue, but I will stop before it becomes too much of a ramble. My point is I believe children need to be respected, have boundaries, consistancy, have patience, and be explained the reasoning behind these boundries.

 

[lallieth]

While I do not believe in spanking a child and I am a firm but loving mother,I have yelled at the kids,and while they are good kids,they weren't always well behaved and did test my limitations and patience.

I didn't always explain everything to them,I wasn't always consistent in my parenting,sometimes I used bribes.Sometimes I told little white lies,and never used time outs.

I never sent my kids to their rooms or had them stand in a corner.Sometimes I have been too easy and too indulgent,sometimes too strict.

Spanking never fit my idea of parenting and so I never used it.

However,I did love them,kiss every single boo boo they got,nurtured their creativeness (even if it meant sometimes having them scrub crayon off the wall),exposed them to all kinds of new experiences.Let them dye their hair green,then black,then get a lip piercing and dress all in black combat clothes.

I did put up with their choice of music,whatever it was at the time and tried to understand why they liked it

I did listen to them,really listen to them,soothed them with words when their hearts got broken,gave them $20 when they were short.I kept my calm when they ranted about the rules and how much they hated me and living in my home..knowing that these feelings were temporary,but still needed to be expressed.Because children should be allowed to express all feelings and emotions,even when we may not want to hear it.

As I said my kids are good kids,because of all I have done and in spite of all that I have lacked doing in raising them..They are by no means perfect,and I would not want them to be,because they weren't raised to be perfect.

 

[momof5]

A couple of swats to a child's behind has a well-deserved place in discipline when milder tactics fail, says Robert Larzelere, an Oklahoma State University psychologist who has been researching corporal punishment for more than a quarter of a century. Larzelere describes that circumscribed use of corporal punishment as "conditional spanking."

"It's better, wherever possible, to offer verbal correction and explanation," he says. "But then back that up, first with nonphysical consequences, and then, if the child acts defiantly, with conditional spanking."

I agree with this statement.

as the name states I had 5 children. And with 5 children there are many conflicts that arise in a family.

I think with my 2 older boys I was a bit harder on my spanking than I should have been, however if I apologize to them for it, and state thta I should have been a bit more lenient with it all, they tell me that I didn't do it enough!

My daughter rarely got her butt smacked. I would just say to her what it is, and she would obey forever with the words.

My 2 younger, I spanked their butts. I had learned a good bit, A few swats on the butt with your hand isn't going to do any damage at all to a child. And this would come with a warning. If you do this again, I'm going to turn you over my knee and you are getting spanked.

I don't let my husband hit as he doesn't care where his hand or fist lands. He also is very verbally abusive, and always was with the kids.

So, I think if you want to compare generations, you need to also add the Dr. Spock generation (a book of which I never read, but knew of a few people who did, and had spoiled children as a result of it)

Children today rebel against authority because they aren't shown any authority growing up, and when it is time to obey the rules of society, they just dont 'think they have to do so.

I haven't read through this thread, just the article that David has put in the begining. And wanted to respond.

I think God gave us padded behinds so that gentle spankins would be felt gently.

As an added thought process here, I have wonderful children, who have respect for authority, and are good children. I have trouble with my youngest because he and his dad dont' get along and he doesn't really show him what a father figure is. Other wise he is a good child. He has had difficulty this year with grades, lost computer usage in october. He is now bringing up grades but for gym.

I was very strict with my children. I had to know their friends and their friends parents, and when they were out where they are going and what time they will be home (younger ones given times to be home)

If I had to do it all over again, I would still do most things the same, except go a bit easier on my 2 older ones when they were yonger.