Voices vs Thoughts

[je9je9]

I have these thoughts that say, "You should just kill yourself." Sometimes I'm happy, sometimes I'm sad, sometimes I'm anxious. They aren't my thoughts, but they are, as in obviously they are because I know intellectually they are, but when they come I know they aren't because they call me "you" if that makes sense. But they aren't voices, though my doctor and case manager insist I hear voices and I don't because they have no volume. I just get thoughts that aren't mine, but I know theoretically they are. They just originate outside my body. Because I can feel them by my right ear. But sometimes they originate in the space between my brain and skull. But they are not real. But they are. Soooooo.......I suddenly asked myself, when they said, "You should just kill yourself," {edit....do some harm to myself} and I think no, I wouldn't. So I can't really be suicidal if I wouldn't do that, so why do these thoughts plague me?

My doctor said maybe I am trying to exert some kind of control over my thoughts. Hmm. I said, "Yeah, maybe," because maybe I am, but when my case manage asked what that meant I couldn't explain it either. My thoughts are like a flea on a dog, so maybe that's what he meant, jumping around I mean.


For fun I like to read and if I was doing too badly I don't think I could read, so mainly I am wondering:

Why do my doctor and case manager think I hear voices when I keep telling them these thoughts have no volume?

 

[GDPR]

Is it possible you're so accustomed to the 'thoughts' that you aren't able to recognize they're actually voices?

 

[H011yHawkJ311yBean]

Hm, not so much in the audio sense, then... So would you say you don't "hear" these urges, but you "feel" them? I suppose the doc and case manager are kind of over-simplifying it when they say "voice(s)." ?? I am no expert but I have an idea...

Usually when I think or remember music or sounds or pictures I can hear words or sounds or see pictures... If none of this is happening for you, would you instead describe it as an urge or feeling, and it doesn't come across as a voice? Could you be a stickler and still say that "something" (don't know what - misfiring synapses, chemical imbalance, I have no idea how this works) in your mind is "communicating" with you so that you understand somewhere in your mind you are getting these feelings/urges to harm yourself...

So in this way you are "hearing" or understanding through some kind of communication ("voice") that you can't control in your mind that is apparently not that strong right now (and hopefully your doctor/therapist has you on some kind of meds/therapy to control these things) because you are like thinking back, "Uh, no, I don't think so. Ha ha. Not gonna hurt myself, are you kidding??"

So you are receiving this communication and you are responding back... To yourself, or some part of your mind that may or may not be your conscious self. So do you see that you are, in fact, having a conversation of sorts?

Is there really that big a difference?

 

[David Baxter PhD]

Or, it's possible they really are thoughts, OCD thoughts or OCD-like thoughts. It's actually pretty difficult to tell the difference between thoughts and speech, since we tend to "hear" our thoughts in our own voice. And with that type of intrusive thought, the use of the word "you" to refer to yourself is not unusual.

On the other hand, neither one's own thoughts nor auditory hallucinations are necessarily experienced as having volume so that isn't a differentiating factor.

 

[GDPR]

we tend to "hear" our thoughts in our own voice.

Just curious,do people hear their thoughts in their own voice,but they sound younger and/or older sometimes?

 

[David Baxter PhD]

Just curious,do people hear their thoughts in their own voice,but they sound younger and/or older sometimes?

Interesting question. I would think it's quite possible but we never really hear our own voices as others do anyway. That's why we sound different to ourselves in a recording.

 

[GDPR]

we never really hear our own voices as others do anyway

Why is that?

---------- Post Merged at 08:04 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 08:03 PM ----------

god,if I really sound to others as I do in a recording,then I really do sound like Marge Simpson.

---------- Post Merged at 08:10 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 08:04 PM ----------

I would think it's quite possible

So,do you mean that maybe everybody does but just haven't really been aware that they do? Or does "quite possible" mean that it's a rarity and most people don't?

 

[MHealthJo]

I might be wrong here, but as far as I have always understood, we actually kind of never quite hear ourselves the way we sound to others, unless we hear a recording of ourselves.

It's something to do with how, when we hear our own voice, we are hearing a combination of the sound coming out of our mouth which then reaches our ears (this sound picked up this way matches what others hear), combined with the sounds reaching our ears from actually like.... through our own body. Our ears can also pick up a certain amount of the sound from the 'other direction' - like, the direction of inside our body, where the source is.

Apparently, too, the sound of a human's own voice varies a bit from instance to instance, based on all kinds of factors that biologically vary from instance to instance, such as energy levels and things. I have really noticed this when I listen to the same reader read different chapters of a book, recorded at different times. Just little variations. Some readers seam to vary a bit more than others.

Don't worry. My own voice, to me, sounds fairly respectable and just sounds like a normal woman voice.

... and in real life from recordings, it seems about two flamin' octaves higher, squeaky, and disturbingly close to chipmunk. :S

 

[GDPR]

What do your thoughts sound like though.

 

[Daniel E.]

Or, it's possible they really are thoughts, OCD thoughts or OCD-like thoughts. It's actually pretty difficult to tell the difference between thoughts and speech, since we tend to "hear" our thoughts in our own voice. And with that type of intrusive thought, the use of the word "you" to refer to yourself is not unusual.

On the other hand, neither one's own thoughts nor auditory hallucinations are necessarily experienced as having volume so that isn't a differentiating factor.

And a possibly related side note about hallucinations/psychosis vs OCD:

the concept of overvalued ideas in OCD may be related to poor insight as a psychotic dimension...

Analysis revealed a general pattern of increasing executive dysfunction in order from patients with OCD and good insight, through to patients with OCD and poor insight, then schizophrenia with OCD, and finally patients with pure schizophrenia.

forum.psychlinks.ca/schizophrenia-and-related-disorders/14928-schizophrenia-and-ocd-show-symptomatic-overlap.html

 

[David Baxter PhD]

What do your thoughts sound like though.

I'm not sure they sound exactly like my voice to me but they sound sort of like my voice.

This is actually a very interesting qu7estions and one I'm not sure I've ever seen addressed before.

 

[GDPR]

I'm glad someone thinks it's interesting. I have asked a few people before and they just look puzzled and acted like there's something wrong with me for asking.

---------- Post Merged at 09:55 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 09:51 PM ----------

What about when you read a book,or even a post on here, what does it sound like?

 

[David Baxter PhD]

I'm glad someone thinks it's interesting. I have asked a few people before and they just look puzzled and acted like there's something wrong with me for asking.

I find it fascinating. But them psychologists may be a little odd that way...

What about when you read a book,or even a post on here, what does it sound like?

The same as my thoughts. Like my voice but not quite the same.

 

[GDPR]

I find it fascinating. But them psychologists may be a little odd that way

I find it fascinating too,and I'm not a psychologist,I'm just odd.

So all of your thoughts are in your own voice(well,kinda)?Is it always the same voice?

---------- Post Merged at 10:10 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 10:08 PM ----------

....and when you're reading,it's always the same one too?

 

[David Baxter PhD]

I think so, yes.

 

[MHealthJo]

What do your thoughts sound like though.

I agree, this is an absolutely fascinating question!

(Bah we're not weird. We're just having a REAL conversation. Not about the dang weather. Boring. This is the type of detailed fascinating, weird, or funny conversation I tend to have with my nieces, hehe.)

The way I experience my thoughts seems to vary. If I am thinking about what I am going to say to somebody in a conversation, or things that 'might happen' verbally, and it is what I am going to say, then I do sort of get a.... a 'sense' of hearing it in my speaking voice. If it is what the other person is going to say, I hear it in their voice. Same with if it's things I or someone else has said.

With other thoughts like more general ideas... general thinking... I think I just get either 'concepts' in my head, flashing through... don't quite know how else to describe it...

Or Pictures... like movies of what the situation would 'look like' if it happened.... or I get a movie of what HAS happened.

Or sometimes, in a way, with less tangible thoughts or ideas, I think I sort of 'see words'. Hmm I wonder what font I think in.

When I read a book, what happens varies... but again, it is based on what the thought IS.

If it is a fiction book with dialogue, I may like... 'invent a voice' for that character and then the person talks in it. But at the same time I kind of make a movie of what the book is telling me.

In a way this sort of happens with nonfiction too. I get a sort of movie of what the book is saying, if its an idea of like, 'a thing happening'. But if it's not that sort of sentence, then..... I think I just see the words in front of me, and that's all my thought is.

I think its the same if I type or write. If it's about 'a thing happening', there will be a movie of it, kind of. But if not, I just see the words as I type them.

(So I hope this doesnt seem creepy or something, but in line with the movie thing.... Yeah, I definitely get movies of you all when i read what you post. I get a movie of what you say is happening, with an invention of what you all look like (if you don't have a profile pic). My brain invents scenery from my own experiences, to fill things in. For example if you talk about something to do with your work, my brain visually invents a picture of a workplace, which will be based on a workplace I have had, or one from a movie, or something. My brain uses stored visual images to make a 'scene' for what you guys tell me, if you are telling me an 'event' or a physical situation.

The more I have read about you all, the more my brain fills in clearer details, rather than vague or guesswork. For example, LIT, ages ago I had no real picture of you. Then I learned more about roughly what age you are; then one time you mentioned you are a 'hair person' and do quite a bit with your hair. Plus your profile pic for quite some time had been an anime girl with long black hair.

Therefore, with you, I get movies of a woman with long black hair which is nice, sleek and well looked after.

My brain uses bits and pieces of what info it thinks it has, and fills in the rest with sort of 'vague blobs' or stored imagery... and makes a movie.)

Weird and fascinating!

 

[GDPR]

Interesting!

Do your thoughts ever sound younger or older than what you are?What do your thoughts sound like when they are berating you?Do your thoughts sound different depending on what mood you're in?Are they always the same gender?Do you ever have 'background' thoughts going on,like thoughts that are observing and commenting on what's going on around you?Like if you're having a conversation with someone,are you thinking about other things as you're talking?Like are you totally engrossed in the conversation,yet at the same time you're thinking "wow,I don't like the shirt she is wearing,she's standing too close",etc?

Do you think about more than one thing at once?For example,do you think about 5 separate things at once and are able to focus on each thing separately,yet collectively,at the same time?

By the way,when I read posts on here,each person has their own voice in my thoughts.For example,Dr.Baxter's posts always sound the same when I read them,I read them as if he is saying them,and it's always the same voice. And when there's a new member,I feel a little leery,because there's no 'voice' associated with their posts.Sometimes there is though,and I welcome them right away.

When I read a book,it's usually way better than any movie,each character has their own voice,and there's scenery and even background music.I feel as if I am living what I am reading.That's why I love reading so much.

 

[je9je9]

On the other hand, neither one's own thoughts nor auditory hallucinations are necessarily experienced as having volume so that isn't a differentiating factor.

Well, I thought by definition "auditory" had to have volume. I would say I can see where my doctor is coming from if that is the case. Thank you. It explains a lot.

 

[Retired]

We hear ourselves not just by voice, alone, but by bone conduction through our jaws directly to the ears.

When you completely cover your ears for no sound to get through, you can still hear yourself talk. That colors the way we hear ourselves.

Recordings cannot be considered accurate representations of our voice either, because of the wide diversity in quality of recording equipment and microphones.

Consider the difference between how broadcasters sound from the studio, on remote location (outside) and worst of all, on the telephone.

When I hear my own voice in my thoughts, it's definitely the voice of the virile twenty year old I would like to think of myself as being....:lol:

When I read posts, I think I imagine how the author might sound.

I suppose when we speak, there is a degree of pre-composition of what will be said in our minds, and since the spoken speech is the voice we actually head through bone conduction etc. it seems to me the sound of our thoughts resembles the sound of our own spoken voice...the way I see it (or hear it, anyway).

 

[GDPR]

When I hear my own voice in my thoughts, it's definitely the voice of the virile twenty year old I would like to think of myself as being.

LOL!

So,are you implying that we 'hear' our thoughts according to how we perceive ourselves?