More threads by freedomination

freedomination

Account Closed
I am NOT a lawyer but I have learned how to research law because I once represented myself (no lawyer) in court and won against the Federal Crown. So what I will show you is your Right of Autonomy and your Rights to accept or refuse medical treatment, all from cases in the Supreme Court of Canada. In the end it is your choice.

Your Rights under Common Law on medical treatment.

Rodriguez v. British Columbia (Attorney General), [1993] 3 S.C.R. 519

"That there is a right to choose how one's body will be dealt with, even in the context of beneficial medical treatment, has long been recognized by the common law. To impose medical treatment on one who refuses it constitutes battery, and our common law has recognized the right to demand that medical treatment which would extend life be withheld or withdrawn."


Starson v. Swayze, [2003] 1 S.C.R. 722, 2003 SCC 32

7 Ordinarily at law, the value of autonomy prevails over the value of effective medical treatment. No matter how ill a person, no matter how likely deterioration or death, it is for that person and that person alone to decide whether to accept a proposed medical treatment.
75 The right to refuse unwanted medical treatment is fundamental to a person's dignity and autonomy. This right is equally important in the context of treatment for mental illness: see Fleming v. Reid (1991), 4 O.R. (3d) 74 (C.A.), per RobinsJ.A., at p. 88:

"
Few medical procedures can be more intrusive than the forcible injection of powerful mind-altering drugs which are often accompanied by severe and sometimes irreversible adverse side effects. Unwarranted findings of incapacity severely infringe upon a person's right to self-determination."


If you are under appeal because you were refused ODSP by the DAU, make a personal affidavit stating the above rights and that you will determine what medications or therapy you are willing to try. They will make a claim to the SBT that you are not attempting to take medication for treatment of your conditions. This cannot be used against you even though they try to intimidate you. Once they see you know what you are talking about and that you potentially may take this to court, they will back off. Your affidavit must be in legal format and signed by a Commisioner of Oaths, lawyer or judge.

If your Doctor or Psych recommends a drug to you that you are not comfortable trying due to it's potentially addictive properties or bad side effects, refuse it and tell them this in your affidavit. I, myself read many forums about medications and long term effects with peoples horror stories about addiction and withdraw from many of these psychotic drugs that are prescribed and I chose to go the Natural Path. I tried some medical marihjuana for my anxiety and was instantly releaved by it. I told the DAU and SBT in Affidavit that this is my main choice of treatment and that I need help to access it. The DAU's reply was that marijuana was an option. I replied that all medications and treatments are optional, as it is MY choice alone to determine what medications I will take or try. If I am refused ODSP at my SBT hearing, I will be filing for an Judicial Review.

A Person with a Disability
The ODSP has it's definition of a person with a disability under section 4 (1) of the Act. But the Federal government has it's definition of a person with disabilities under the Employment Equity Act. In this Act it states:

Persons with disabilities

A person with a disability has a long term or recurring physical, mental, sensory, psychiatric or learning impairment and:

•considers himself/herself to be disadvantaged in employment by reason of that impairment;
•believes that an employer or potential employer is likely to consider him/her to be disadvantaged in employment by reason of that impairment.

This definition also includes persons whose functional limitations owing to their impairment have been accommodated in their current job or workplace.

Disabilities include: co-ordination or dexterity (difficulty using hands or arms, for example, grasping or handling a stapler or using a keyboard), mobility (difficulty moving around, for example, from one office to another or up and down stairs), blind or visual impairment (unable to see or difficulty seeing), deaf or hard of hearing (unable to hear or difficulty in hearing), speech impairment (unable to speak or difficulty speaking and being understood), other disability (including learning disabilities, developmental disabilities and all other types of disabilities).

If your disability puts you at a disadvantage for employment, then you are a person with a disability.

Test of Total Disability

According to the Supreme Court of Canada in the 1983 case Paul Revere vs. Sucharov adopted the following interpretation which has been followed by courts across Canada :

“The test of total disability is satisfied when the circumstances are such that a reasonable man would recognize that he should not engage in certain activity even though he literally is not physically unable to do so. In other words, total disability does not mean absolute physical inability to transact any kind of business pertaining to one’s occupation, but rather that there is a total disability if the insured’s injuries are such that common care and prudence require him to desist from his business or occupation in order to effectuate a cure; hence, if the condition of the insured is such that in order to effect a cure or prolongation of life, common care and prudence will require that he cease all work, he is totally disabled within the meaning of health or accident insurance policies.”

This case was an insurance company vs. an employee of a company. ODSP is not Insurance such as Employment Insurance (EI) but in my opinion the reasoning will apply to any person who has or developes a disability. The common law would apply as your autonomy/self determination tells you that you are a reasonable person and you recognize that you should not engage in certain activity even though you literally are not physically unable to do so. It is your choice in the end.

If anyone has any questions feel free to post or message. Again I am not a lawyer, this is just my own interpretation of the case law. If you have or need a lawyer get one and show them this information. I do believe the ODSP Act has many constitutional flaws within it!

Ken;)
 

David Baxter PhD

Late Founder
Rather selective quoting...

The law also recognizes that a person may be treated against his or her will if that person is not in a state of mind to be able to make rational decisions. This is not substantially different from the laws governing "not guilty by reason of insanity" in the criminal code.

And if you are legally "of sound mind", yes of course you have the right to refuse prescribed medications or other prescribed treatments. On the other hand, if you do so, you should not be surprised if ODSP or any other organization decides that you are not taking advantage of all available resources to try to get better, i.e., to improve your physical or mental health status so that you become capable of working and supporting yourself.

ODSP has limited resources and their mandate is to do everything possible to ensure that those who NEED their financial support get it and that those who don't NEED it do not get it. That's as it should be: If someone who really doesn't need the support is given ODSP, that may well mean less for those who really have no other options.
 

freedomination

Account Closed
Rather selective quoting...

The law also recognizes that a person may be treated against his or her will if that person is not in a state of mind to be able to make rational decisions. This is not substantially different from the laws governing "not guilty by reason of insanity" in the criminal code.

And if you are legally "of sound mind", yes of course you have the right to refuse prescribed medications or other prescribed treatments. On the other hand, if you do so, you should not be surprised if ODSP or any other organization decides that you are not taking advantage of all available resources to try to get better, i.e., to improve your physical or mental health status so that you become capable of working and supporting yourself.

ODSP has limited resources and their mandate is to do everything possible to ensure that those who NEED their financial support get it and that those who don't NEED it do not get it. That's as it should be: If someone who really doesn't need the support is given ODSP, that may well mean less for those who really have no other options.

Yes if a person is found to be incapacitated then they lose the right of self determination. I do not believe that anyone posting in this forum is incapacitated. You say selective quoting? Yes that is what lawyers do. They select only the relavant information for their case, as most SCC cases are far to lengthy, as much of the case may be irrelavant to their needs. Many people who need the support get refused, :confused:like me:confused:, so the more information they are armed with the better. If you do not exercise your rights, you will lose them! People need to face the facts, that the government does not care about the individual, only the collective and that is not what the Constitution or the Charter of Rights and Freedoms stands for. I busted my butt for 28 years for my community, only to be slapped in the face when I developed disabilities and needed help. I will fight them in court to the highest court if necessary and teach others to do the same thing.

Ken :cool:
 

David Baxter PhD

Late Founder
I'm sorry to hear you feel you were unfairly treated by ODSP. However, that's not the general rule for individuals applying for ODSP and it's not particularly helpful to people looking for information on how to apply and what needs to be included in an application to maximize the chances of approval.

Please be reminded that this is primarily a mental health support community: See our Forum Rules and in particular

 

freedomination

Account Closed
I'm sorry to hear you feel you were unfairly treated by ODSP. However, that's not the general rule for individuals applying for ODSP and it's not particularly helpful to people looking for information on how to apply and what needs to be included in an application to maximize the chances of approval.

I guess it's not the "general rule" if you wish to be willingly ignorant of your rights as a Canadian citizen. The problem lies within the legislation and our medical health care system. It can take amost two years to get the documentation needed if going by the legislation alone. Should someone have to wait 2 years or more to get help from disability services? I had to DEMAND to see a Psychiatrist as my doctor did not refer me to one and it takes about six months just to get a consultation only. The DAU said I have no mental specialist. The DAU members who review your application are (1.) NOT medical doctors or specialist and (2.) have never met or known you personally. In my opinion they are NOT qualified to blindly determine anyone's true level of disability. These are barriers that can be found to be arbitrary in the Court of Law and be removed from the Legislation. Removing these barriers will help speed up the application process, as well as make it comply to the Charter. ODSP does not even comply to their own legislation when you wait for more than 90 business days for your review. A judge in a Judicial Review would tell them that they have no excuse to NOT comply with their own law.

Dr Baxter? Do you like the present legislation and waiting times as they are, or would you like to see improvement? And if you agree that improvements are needed, how do we go about getting it done? Please do not tell us to talk to our MPP. :rolleyes:I would like to hear your input on how to improve the waiting times for the review process and getting all documentationneeded according to the DAU, to get approved for benefits. I'm all ears....
 

David Baxter PhD

Late Founder
No, I don't think there's anything wrong with the system. I have seen many people get approved on the first try within a month or two - because they had the proper documentation that clearly demonstrated full disability.

By your own statements, it appears that you were not exploring all alternate avenues (e.g., psychotherapy and/or pharmocotherapy) before applying and you had insufficient dlocumentation. On that basis alone, rejecting your application was appropriate.
 

Mari

MVP
1.2 - Disability Adjudication Process
Summary of Policy

A person with a disability is defined under the ODSP Act as a person who has a substantial physical or mental impairment that is continuous or recurrent and expected to last one year or more; the direct and cumulative effect of the impairment results in a substantial restrictions in one or more of the activities of daily living (i.e., the ability to attend to personal care, function in the community or function in a workplace); and the impairment, its likely duration and restrictions have been verified by a prescribed health care professional.

The applicant must have a Disability Determination Package (DDP) completed and returned to the Disability Adjudication Unit (DAU) within 90 days. If not, the application shall be determined withdrawn unless the DAU receives a written request for an extension from the applicant and approves a longer period of time. Only prescribed healthcare professionals can complete the DDP.

It is the role of the DAU’s Disability Determination Adjudicators to make the determination of whether or not the applicant is “a person with a disability” under the ODSP Act. An applicant, who is found to be a person with a disability, may be assigned a medical review date if their medical condition is likely to improve.
 
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