Conflicting Information

[Lida]

Being an isolated lay practitioner who is dependent on Buddhist magazines and books for guidance I have read seemingly conflicting statements. There are many accounts of enlightenment experiences which sound life changing. We read that we should practice "as though our heads were on fire". Then there are all the descriptions of the jhanas. I have been practicing for 15 years but I have never had an experience of oneness or emptiness. The author Pema Chodron also says she has never had one of those experiences yet she has more books out than John Grisham. She and other authors say those experiences of themselves are not necessarily indicative of depth of understanding. These authors infer that the steady practice of zazen grounded in the present moment result in the "walking in fog" situation where understanding is achieved incrementally rather than the explosive sudden awakening we are so fond of reading of. Has anyone in the Mindfulness and Meditation section here had some experience in this matter ?

 

[Modus.Ponens]

Hello

I've had flashes of rapture (and at some point I could control when it happened), but I don't know if I ever entered first jhana. I never really applied myself, though. These experiences are perfectly achievable if one has a regular and intensive practice, such as 2-3 hours a day of samatha and also follows the prerequisites, which are following the 5 precepts and guardig the senses during the non-siting time. Or in a retreat environment. Why are the precepts important? the Buddha explains that morality is the base of the buddhist path as following:

"Thus in this way, Ananda, skillful virtues have freedom from remorse as their purpose, freedom from remorse as their reward. Freedom from remorse has joy as its purpose, joy as its reward. Joy has rapture as its purpose, rapture as its reward. Rapture has serenity as its purpose, serenity as its reward. Serenity has pleasure as its purpose, pleasure as its reward. Pleasure has concentration as its purpose, concentration as its reward. Concentration has knowledge & vision of things as they actually are as its purpose, knowledge & vision of things as they actually are as its reward. Knowledge & vision of things as they actually are has disenchantment as its purpose, disenchantment as its reward. Disenchantment has dispassion as its purpose, dispassion as its reward. Dispassion has knowledge & vision of release as its purpose, knowledge & vision of release as its reward.

In this way, Ananda, skillful virtues lead step-by-step to the consummation of arahantship."

A monk that teaches at our forum says that meditation is like heating water. If you don't put enough time on it, even if you heat it every day, you will never see the water boiling. Some people need more time than others, but it shouldn't take long _ as long as you're following the correct instructions with the correct goal in mind.

I feel that I haven't answered your questions in a satisfactory manner, so could you please be more specific in your questions?

 

[Lida]

I know I worded my question poorly. Let me try again. According to several authors I have read some people are of such a mental nature that having extraordinary experiences while meditating just comes easy. These authors also say that often these people do not display maturity "off the cushion". It is easy for us to become goal oriented when we read descriptions of enlightenment experiences the ancients had and assume this is the point of practice. But these authors say a steady and routine practice of returning to the moment without a goal is the best and in the end will have the same effect just as walking in fog will slowly make us wet. I have had a sitting practice for many years now and I would never want to give it up. But I can't say I have had any extraordinary experiences. I understand the point you are making about keeping up the effort 24/7 but there's no way I could manage 2 to 3 hours of zazen a day. I am utterly convinced that the Buddha was teaching the truth and I know this helps me. But there is no one I contact in my life that shares this conviction so in my day to day life I am swimming in samsara. If a person must put in several hours of zazen a day in order to "see the water boil", well few of us ordinary, working, lay practitioners will. The whole point of my comment was to see if some of the participants of this forum are confident they have achieved meaningful progress without what could be referred to as a kensho or satori experience.

 

[Modus.Ponens]

This doubt comes from a false assumption coming frequently from the Zen quadrant: that we have to get rid of all desire in order to make progress on the path. This is false and the Buddha said so. To use Ajahn Chah's analogy (Ajahn Chah was a very famous monk who most regard as enlightened), a man can carry a banana around and only peel it when he's going to eat it, meaning that you have to have desire in order to reach a certain stage of the path. Only then you start to let go of that desire. All that is left then is a wholesome desire to be freed from suffering. It's like an advice I recieved from a teacher I particularly like. He was giving advice to beginers and said "Don't worry if you get atached to practice. That comes later."So, being goal oriented is positive. The Buddha himself was goal oriented, acording to the recordings we have of his life.

Now, if you have a goal you have to apply the apropriate techniques to achieve it. Zazen isn't a technique for attaining jhanas. It's essencialy a vipassana technique and jhana comes from practicing samatha. Keeping mindfulness all day without having samatha practice can lead you to be disenchanted with everything because the practice is dry. It's often called dry vipassana and it's very difficult to do outside retreat environment. With samatha (2-3 hours a day) you can attain the jhanas which is the juice of the fruit. If you can't practice 2-3 hours a day of samatha, try going to a samatha retreat in order to experience the jhanas. They are extremely powerful tools for insight meditation, probably indispensable. If you can't go to a retreat, practice samatha either way and then mindfulness during the day.

I've had progress without reaching any noble attainment. I atended a 10 day vipassana retreat in S.N. Goenka's tradition and it was the most profound experience I ever had. I highly recomend it if you want to have an introduction to what meditation can do for a person.

Come by www.dhammawheel.com where you can discuss dharma with people much more knowledgeable than me. There is also www.dharmawheel.net for mahayana buddhism, but I don't know how good the members are. One thing you'll see is a lot of debate around anything. Expect that as it is a natural internet phenomenon.

I hope I answered your questions.