Family Problems

[Ftbwgil]

I can relate to your situation. As brothers and sisters our relationship is in disarray. I understand your wanting that brother sister relationship. If you ever had that count yourself fortunate. If you do not have that today then I beleive all you can do if you wish because love is a choice is love them. Real love is unconditional therefore if they do not respond in the way that you wish .... you cannot change them and accepting is better for your health. They are who they are and it can be prettry complex. We have enough keeping us busy working on ourselves that once we extend ourselves in the behavior of others ... we will probably be disapointed because we have no control on how people think or feel.

This is their opinion and you know the truth that is all you need to know. They might or might not figure it out one day. That is not your problem.. Loook after yourself and you can still love them just dont allow yourself to be hurt by them.

Good luck

 

[heatherly]

thank you, but i am not sure of this forgiving them when they have gaslighted me

 

[rdw]

You don't forgive them for them, you forgive them for you. As long as you focus on them, they have power and control over you. When you turn it around and just focus on what you believe it begins to not matter on what they think or say. It really is about not making what they say your reality.

 

[heatherly]

I used to want to prove to them that I didn't take the money, even if I had to do a lie detector test, but now I think, if that is what they thought about me, then I don't want them in my life. And their lying about it is what really bothers me now because they want to make me out to be nuts, and that makes me not want them in my life at all. Then I feel guilty for not wanting them in my life because "they are family." I can forgive them because I know that they have their own problems from growing up in our household, but I always felt that forgiveness means to have them in my life.This is where I am having so much guilt, I can't stand it. Yet, if I had them in my life on their terms, which is to just let it go, then that would always be between us. Neither my one brother or sister ever apologized. I don't think that unconditional love means to put you back in the place where you can be hurt again by people.

 

[W00BY]

Forgiveness has to be in the balance that jolly has described
I really can't add to this much because jolly has put it all so well

I have a very emotional damaging family and not because of religious belief but because I was shaped to not only forgive but accept abusive and constant erosion of myself by all my closest family members.

When fundamentally you are a nice person...those that are not, will assume they can do as they wish with you and your life...and part of being nice when you are experiencing this becomes warped and internalized making yourself think that because you are running into issues that are making others behave this way that it must in some way be your fault.

And so the constant trying to forgive and fix and ignore things you know deep down are wrong starts...

I now think of forgiveness as a gift and not a given because you are related to me or because in some way it was my fault...

It is not a presumed right of others to expect and from the sounds of things you have ended up with some issues just trying to be nice and being left with all the crappy backwash from others not respecting that!

I have put myself into some very dangerous situations with my own family just to be able to understand in my own head that it is not me it is them...unfortunately it left me with baggage too...but now I pride myself on not being like them but still understand that I need to protect myself in order not to end up in therapy and unable to get out of bed because I hate myself for falling into the same emotional traps set for me by others for the hundredth-odd time.

More often than not it is the hurt of someone else we care about that will spurn us into action for me and as you also pointed out it is my children...I will not accept anyone doing to them what I will readily accept and that is where the protection needs to be an "as if" situation.

If they did that to my kids how would I feel?...Therefore why am I accepting it when directed at myself?

Jolly is so right it is no bad thing to keep corrosive and damaging people out of your life and being a nice person should not also be your burden.

It is a strength of character not many have and you just have to have that presence of mind to not forgo yourself in interactions with others and think objectively when you do get that sensation deep down of unease about the situation.

We owe it to those around us to care for ourselves how we care for them and sometimes that means leaving people behind that drag you down and turn you against yourself!

Your a nice person who deserves other nice people in your life!

 

[heatherly]

I was shaped to not only forgive but accept abusive and constant erosion of myself by all my closest family members.

Thank you Wooby. So was I.

When fundamentally you are a nice person...those that are not, will assume they can do as they wish with you and your life.

I feel like I have allowed my family to continually abuse me, because even though I always became angry with them for doing so, my forgiving them, caused them to think that they could continue. And so they felt that they could get away with it.

I have noticed in my family how often we stop speaking to each other, and our mom did the same with me, and I think, "I don't want to be like her and reject others in the family," and so I felt guilty for rejecting my brother and sister. But in some ways, now that I am thinking about it, not speaking with certain family members can actually be healing, and maybe it is for them too in that they get away from the madness. But there are times in our family when we have been rejected, not spoken to in years, because of something a family member believed we said or did which was not true. I don't want to be like that with family members. I just listened to my niece talk about how she was accused and not spoken to by her dad (my brother) for 3 years until she made him listen. I saw how one of my friends fell and got a black eye, which was now purple, and so she wore a purple sweater, and I thought it wonderful and realized that the time I fell and got a black eye I felt people would think that my husband hit me, and actually one person did, but I realized then that my family would have thought that he had, and so I was sensitive to that. Not everyone is like my family, are they?

I wish now that when I realized that I was being blamed for taking money that I had said nothing and just left for home, forgetting my mom's funeral, especially when I hadn't wanted to be there anyway. It would have saved me a lot of heartache. And yesterday when I saw that my sister was sticking to her story of, "I never thought you took it, and you just don't remember what happened," and I replied, "I took notes." and she still didn't want to take any responsibility, I stopped answering her emails. I realized that she wasn't suffering by our not speaking because she was not apologizing, etc. And my brother didn't respond, and so I should just not feel guilty, and so far so good. I believe that I was just concerned that I was hurting them by not speaking to them. I realize now that I am not that important in their lives, and I am beginning to see that it is best to never get in that kind of situation again. And actually, I have not wanted to be with them in their little reunions and have refrained from doing so all of these years, and I tell them all, and I mean it, I will never go to another family funeral. It is hard to believe that I was that traumatized. And my one niece says, "Get over it." Her last statement was: "[FONT=&quot]I do think that you need to let it go though. That was a long time ago and nobody even thinks about it anymore until you bring it up. We are all family and love each other unconditionally or we are supposed to." Unconditionally, not true. Most family members will not speak to her anymore. I have brought it back up over and over again because I kept thinking that I could change how my family felt, and that I believed that my other two nieces wanted nothing to do with me because they were told that I took mom's money. I lost out on their lives for the last 10 years, with them getting married, one having children, etc. All because I saw how rejecting my family was, how one cousin was on drugs and wrote a check from someone in the families account and was caught. Then later on she stopped drugs and became a Christian, but we were still forbidden to talk with her. Or how my mother didn't speak to my dad's sisters due to an argument, and so we couldn't either. And it makes me angry to see how my family treats my nieces. They all expect the worse of everyone. I am grateful for my ex-sister-in-law for writing to me and confirming my own feelings about them. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Again you wrote: More often than not it is the hurt of someone else we care about that will spurn us into action. And you are right. That did it for me. I even think how my brother and his new wife think that their son is autistic because of his behavior, and yet how he acts is exactly how we acted and how some of us still act, but because my brother's step-daughter is studying psychology, they believe her, and now he has that stigma. And yet he gets along fine with his own friends. What a sad family.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Jolly is so right it is no bad thing to keep corrosive and damaging people out of your life and being a nice person should not also be your burden.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]This is true, it should not be my burden, and I hope it never becomes one again. If I even think of trying to get things right again, I will re-read this thread.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We owe it to those around us to care for ourselves how we care for them and sometimes that means leaving people behind that drag you down and turn you against yourself!

Your a nice person who deserves other nice people in your life!

Thank you.

[/FONT]

 

[Ftbwgil]

I agree with you..... about everything.... because they are family does not give them the right to hurt us. This genetic pull towards familly is very strong... this wanting to fit in with them etc. If they hurt you and do not make you feel good then why would you throw yourself in fire. When i say forgive ... it is but a word... what i mean is I release them from my life and in my case and looks like yours... I shut off all ties ..... as any communication with them is manipulation. I can relate to where you where at.

Your doing well

 

[W00BY]

It is a very primal form of acceptance... I know I certainly crave to this day.... the need to fit in with my family.It is a real difficulty to carve your own identity in a family, and the sense of exclusion is so strong when you are rejected all you want to do is recover it in some way and when that effort is emotionally abused further you try harder and harder to get what you can't have.

But the first "lightbulb moment" you get when you force yourself to make that stand in favor of your happiness is so amazing and you are so proud of finding there is a strength you'd ignored within yourself...

Since sorting out the borders of my family initially things have went really well but my dad dying and my son being desperately ill made me have to revisit some of them and in some cases forced my hand into stopping total contact until behavior changed, particularly around my very ill son... I micro managed the people around him as I wanted him to be as happy as possible and there be no family drama around him...so some of the festering you can just ignore in normal circumstances became sharply as issue at this point.

I was so anxious and anticipative of one very close family members visits I decided to just be totally honest much to the dislike of the family member who told me she never wanted to see my son again

I felt sick to the bottom of my stomach having to say how I felt in a clam manner about such emotive issues but two months on they phoned and I picked it up and explained very clearly what was needed before access to my son would be allowed... again and I beat myself up because they apologized as I did not want it to get to this stage...but...I did it and now they know where the line is and what happens if it is crossed and stopped a whole bunch of anxiety that had me moaning so much my partner rolled his eyes every time I mentioned it...my point is...

I look at that person who did this and don't recognize them, but it is me and what I wanted to stop and I fixed and knew it was ok to do is now fixed... in therapy my therapist would say " I had given myself permission" and it is such a wonderful sensation that moment...so yes your family is a handful and it is heavy at times dealing with the drama and strain of it but working towards where you want to be is something only you can do for you and it's so nice when you do it and see the results!

*cheesy grins*

 

[heatherly]

Thanks Ftb and Wooby,

Wooby, I am sorry about your dad dying, and I really hope that your son will be okay.

I have often asked myself if my sister would be in my life if she were not family. No, I would have left her friendship years ago. You stay because you have been brainwashed by religion or other people to believe that "they are family; you have to forgive them." And that means, not just forgive but to keep in your life. Forgiving is one thing; having them in your life, another. Perhaps that is an extension of "Honor your father and your mother." Yet, I just looked and here is a website that is Christian but gives a great answer in regards to honoring: "How Do You Honor Deeply Flawed Parents?" - Probe Ministries

But first, let me say that one aspect of honoring flawed parents is to understand that the best (or even only) way you might be able to honor them is from a distance, emotionally and physically. You can give yourself permission to do that.

But to me that doesn't mean "respecting" them because I can't, but I can wish them the best in life and hope that they are happy, and that I do.There was a brief period in my life with my sister where I enjoy her fully, and that was in the 70s when we were kind of like hippies together. In later years, I found that she continually invalidating my perceptions and feelings, and I wanted to get away. The brother in this case, well, I was never raised with him. He is my half-brother and was two years old or so when I moved away from home. I always had a high opinion of him until just realizing things about him. He was never a talker either, so whenever I came to visit my mom and step-father he would come over and put a book in his nose. So he never really knew me, which is probably why he listened to my sister who grew up with him. To think that $40 being stolen at the funeral ended up like this. But it wasn't about the $40, it was about their view of me.

When you are being gaslighted it is hard to not think, "Well, maybe they didn't think I took the money," and then you read their conflicting emails and letters, and you had taken notes at that time, and you listen to your older brother and wife who was there, and you realize, "No, they are really gaslighting me, and they know it."

Sounds like you have a great therapist Wooby. Wish I had, but I go in and talk, and all I get is listening. My husband is more wise than that, and so this time I had him read the emails and respond to me. I didn't bother with going to a therapist. I wanted things analyzed, I wanted opinions, I got none. Maybe that is best. And when it came down to answering my sister's last email, I couldn't do it. I gave up the fight and feel better about myself.


the need to fit in with my family.It is a real difficulty to carve your own identity in a family, and the sense of exclusion is so strong when you are rejected all you want to do is recover it in some way and when that effort is emotionally abused further you try harder and harder to get what you can't have.


And then Wooby, you finally give up.

 

[W00BY]

It is a psychotherapist I see and yes while it mainly listening there is very valuable and summarizing from each session by the therapist and sometimes challenging of perceptions.

You should seek a good psychotherapist (I would strongly recommend it) should you feel at any point you need help.

You can speak in detail about your issues surrounding your family with a lot of reflection on here.

Sometimes like good doctors you need to try a few avenues... sometimes just by speaking to people you find a good practitioner or someone who is aware of the services available in your area...there is also brilliant resources and links to other resources on this site and the admin here always endeavor to be helpful!

 

[heatherly]

Thank you Wooby. There are only two in town, and I don't see to drive far away from here. The second one just sits there and repeats what you said to her, and I find that annoying. Plus, my insurance won't cover her. At least I have a lot of friends who listen, and it is nice coming here.