Fear of... commitment?

[Emotions_Blocked]

From as long as i remember , i was a boy with lots of phobias.Most of them i overcame as time went by while fighting with them in my mind.. I've made lots of progress ... in some areas. It seems one is left , probably the most important.


I have no fear of rejection when i flert a woman..I can handle this game with ease , i've been talking to unknown women in the street since i was 16 , and now , 24 , i can say i'm pretty cool on the 1st stage part..I dont have a problem with some girl rejecting me at this timestage.

Problems start some dates later.. Although i like to flert with lots of women , i really need to know someone "loves me" , i need this feeling , i need to give and receive love , affection , devotion , and all.. But at the same time these feelings scare the hell out of me.
How this is expressed?Well,2,3 or 4 dates after going out,or usually after the 1st time i have sex with this woman i begin to feel anxious . I get up early in the morning , i feel trapped , i feel exposed.. I'm afraid of being tricked , think consistently that this 'relation' will end , and panic. I dont function normally , i'm not cool , relaxed , i'm not myself.
I feel i am two guys : One who finds FLERT as a SOLUTION to everything and the other one who really needs to receive and give love but sets so many barriers that doesnt let this happen.

Most of the times i end up finding reasons (sometimes real sometimes not) to end the relationship.And lots of these times i feel sad this happened.I'm 24,i have had like 15 gf's and longest relationship lasted like 3-4 months.

I'll add some extra info , just this for now... tell me what you think..

 

[Persephone]

Re: Fear of..commitment?

Hi!

From what you describe I am thinking that maybe you are not exactly afraid of commitment. You enjoy flirting but I didn't read in your post that it is the pursuit of flert that leads you to braking up. Rather I read that you are afraid that the other person will betray or abandon you, or that the other person will hurt you with some way...I think that in front of such a possibility you feel so vulnerable and so afraid that you yourself make this possibility a reality.
Just my thoughts of your letter.Maybe all of them are wrong.

Kisses,
Persephone.

 

[Emotions_Blocked]

Re: Fear of..commitment?

Here we are, 1 year and a month or so, facing the same problem.

Persephone , i think your last phrase was to the point.

Lately, i have been making progress. I have been more self-confident so the possibility of being "dumbed" isn't that scary.

But recently, i ended a relationship maybe for the same reason again. I'm definate that feelings of the girl changed quickly after the 1st month or so, so my worries HAD reason in them, but still , i feel i could try more.

For the relationship to work, i would need to make a journey to another country. That scared the hell out of me because i would be in a new country facing the MAJOR possibility of the end of the relationship there.

I didnt do the journey and the relationship ended.

 

[Persephone]

Re: Fear of..commitment?

I can only imagine how terrifying this journey must have seemed to you, especially with the underlying fear of being dumped in a foreign place. On the other hand, you say that this time some things have changed. You have been more self-confident and you had reason to worry because you noticed that the girls feelings have changed. So definitely yoy are not where you had been in the past, are you?
I would like to ask you something. What would have happened if you were dumped? What is the worst possibility?

 

[Emotions_Blocked]

Persephone!

I hadn't notification on , so i didn't see your message earlier! I hope you read mine soon.

Well , i am..afraid... that i couldn't handle it. It's already too hard to handle over here, still , one month after the breakup...

I can't describe the feeling. It's panic, terror. And since the possibility that the end of the relationship would happen soon was big, i felt even more terrified. And the fact that i would have done this trip added an extra weight to the decisions. I would have invested even more emotionally.

I have to add, that i recently spoke to my X and she said she realized when she saw things more clear, that we had issues from the beginning and we weren't ideal or even good partners for each other.
So then i asked her , well , so , you're saying that my decision not to come to your country was right afterall ? Of course she didn't have anything to say to that... She just said 'well, you just didn't come. simple as that'.
I feel like she loaded me with guilt. Like a game. When i tried to break up with her while she was here, and she herself recognized that we had problems, she said "i can't handle it" and she didn't let me end it. Now that she went over there, it seems she could handle it better. I feel kindda tricked. I actually convinced myself that i would go there and try... I fooled myself that things would change.

With her, it's the first time in my life, after a lot of dates, that i OPENED UP and did things and BONDED... with no fear.... I was sleeping with her most of the nights for these 3 months (i couldnt do that before) i went for vacations with her... I got even USED to sleeping with her that i can't sleep that well right now..
The story goes: At the very beginning of the relationship i offered that i would follow her to her country because she couldn't stay here.(academic obligations) and that made me relax and forget the fact that she was going to leave. I wanted to reassure myself that "oh,ok,i'm following her so we're not breaking up".
Fear kicked in also when i saw that she was "cool" about leaving because i already had offered that i would follow her. It's like i carried the responsibility of what would happen. I shouldn't have made these promises so early. It loaded me with extra weight. Initially it helped me to relax. but then turned bad.

I did a lot of thinking and talking with my friends. I think i am based my WHOLE SELF on that relationship cause i fell so quickly in love, and i didn't keep anything for me. I was so hungry for love (as she was). I am actually not that active as a person, i don't work -yet- (soon though) , so i think that with time i got attached to her too much. Bonded in an abnormal way. For what it's worth, i felt really good and quiet and calm when she was near me. I wanted to be with her every day and night... I feel that maybe it's too much. It's not normal.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

What you're experiencing is not uncommon after the loss of a relationship, even the loss of a relationship that wasn't working well for you. After a breakup, we grieve not only the loss of that relationship but also the loss of the dream of what the relationship might have been or what we hoped the relationship would be.

The anxiety you feel is a normal part of grieving those losses. It will diminish in time.

 

[Emotions_Blocked]

Most of my text was the answer to Persephones answer :

What would have happened if you were dumped? What is the worst possibility?

I am actually trying to detect if my fear of abandonment is messing up with my relationships , or if in THAT particular case i was "reasonable" to be scared.

 

[Persephone]

I would start from the end of your post. You say that you had based your whole self on that relationship. Like you gave up your heart entirelly to the hands of another person. You both were love-starved so you fell both hands to the cookie jar, or something like that. That was something completely new for you, wasn't it? You say that it was the first time you let yourself to bond with another person, you entered the relationship with no fear. I realise that this was a huge step for you, wasn't it?

I am not sure but it seems to me that the fact that she was going to return to her country, no matter what, played a significant role in this relationship. Your offer to follow her helped you initially to relax in the relationship. Somehow, it seems to me that you had the control of the relationship back then. You were sure that you wouldn't break up because you would go with her. The only way for you to break up was depending on you. Do you understand what I am saying here? Maybe it is completely wrong and inaccurate, so please correct me if this is the case.

Afterwards, this responsibility weighted on your shoulders. It seemed like you were deciding about the fate of the relationship, am I right? When you so how cool she was, then and only then fear kicked in.

It seems that there were some real issues and problems in this relationship, you both admited when you recently talked. But there was also a real desire and hope from both of you for this relationship to worl. You really wanted this, didn't you? And now you feel guilty because you were the one who made the decision not to go with her and break up.

And you are trying to figure out if this decision was rational or was based in the panic you feel when you think yourself as abandoned.

It feels like you will not survive after an abandonment, am I right?

 

[Emotions_Blocked]

Oh Persephone...
Are you a mind reader?
That was EXACTLY what happened :

Somehow, it seems to me that you had the control of the relationship back then. You were sure that you wouldn't break up because you would go with her. The only way for you to break up was depending on you.

and then

Afterwards, this responsibility weighted on your shoulders. It seemed like you were deciding about the fate of the relationship, am I right? When you so how cool she was, then and only then fear kicked in.

exactly!! it weighted a lot ! especially because when we both realised we had problems as I described here SHE STILL insisted on me going there , because of course it was the easy thing for her to do , than end it while she was here. I remember her saying on the last day "I think you will regret it more if you don't come than if you come".

Yes it feels like i wont survive...... i see myself right now... she's gone since mid June, we broke up early July, and i'm still fighting it. My reality is pretty damn boring and the only remedy i can think of is get myself a new girlfriend. Although no new girlfriend seems that exciting...

 

[Emotions_Blocked]

I will add some more information to help you:

Beginning of the relationship (after 2 weeks - 3 dates and a holiday weekend), i quickly offered to follow her initially for a month and then maybe for work or studies for a year... Then when days passed, and i wasnt getting much romance as i thought from her, and when she said "lets pass these holidays without talking about the future" i panicked! I was like "What??" "NOW she doesnt want to talk about it?" So i thought "hey..i should debate over that". "i want to see..what is SHE going to do?" "does she care??" And then i tried to ask her what alternatives we had but she was absolute. "You will have to spend a year at my country." "I have tried long distance and it doesnt work."

After that, there was no "please come to my country...i dont want to lose you" and stuff......... so i had to push for those if i wanted to hear them...i had to ask stuff.... stuff i would like to hear from her spontaniously.

it's an endless loop actually! Initially my decision helped me relax , but helped also HER relax ....and THAT made me anxious again. oh gosh. i'm scr**d arent i?

Now I actually think that if i played hard to get and didn't give any promises i could even force her to stay here or i could at least have HER ask me to come..... LIKE IT SHOULD BE !

dammit. how could i do things so wrong on that and screw the situation. Well, maybe her feelings were not true afterall so it's good that i did things how i did. I think some hints about that lie on the other post i hyperlinked above..

You know , i was thinking : "Well, i can surely play tricks and strategies and play hard to get, but wait, if i am thinking of spending years or my life with this woman, how will that help? I'll just show EVERYTHING and be honest and open and hope that she will return back these feelings.". Well, i think she didnt. Or she couldn't.

One friend though, advised me something :"The best way to lose something, is to want it too much". and made me worried.

 

[Halo]

I think that this was very important and should continue to be:

"Well, i can surely play tricks and strategies and play hard to get, but wait, if i am thinking of spending years or my life with this woman, how will that help? I'll just show EVERYTHING and be honest and open and hope that she will return back these feelings.".

In my opinion, I don't think that playing games is necessarily going to get you what you want in the long run and being open and honest in a relationship is the way to go.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

:agree: And from your descriptions it doesn't look like it was a very viable relationship from the start. It probably isn't helping you at all to agonize over all the what-ifs and should-haves at this point.

 

[Emotions_Blocked]

it felt viable , we had all those 'meet my parent's' stuff ,
i'm not agonizing per se but i'm definately seeking for answers about the pattern of my behaviour in relationships.
maybe that one had the reality issues but i still doubt i would act correctly in a more viable situation.. because of the situations/fears going on in my mind as described

 

[David Baxter PhD]

Sorry. I didn't mean to come across as critical. I was trying to say that as it seems to be over the what-ifs and should-haves aren't helping you at this point.

 

[Emotions_Blocked]

No,it's ok!you were right anyway, i am definately overanalyzing, maybe i do that also when i am into the relationship. But it seems persephone hit a gold vain back there thats why i'm feeding with information..
I have kindda accepted the fact that it's over, i'm just trying to get as many conclusions as i can from the story, mostly about myself (and maybe her), so i can use those for my next relationship...
For example, what would the average person do, would he make a 1month trip to check if the relationship is ok, have some holidays, and then get back home? (cause i got that feedback from her..)
Fear can be protective , but it can be an obstactle too. A help, and a burden. Am i using it just because i dont feel strong enough?self confident? Or am i just too realistic and to the ground...

 

[Persephone]

First, I will make clear that I am answering without having read the hyperlinked post. I did this on purpose because I want to focus on what is happening in you at this moment regardless of the kind of the relationship you had with that woman. I took that decision based on the feeling I have which is that, althought the relationship might never work because of it's own problems, what deeply bothers you is your own part to this and your own fears. I hope I am right on this.

So at the beginning of the relationship, you were determined to be with her at any costs. You showed her your interest by offering to follow her abroad. This move calmed your fear of losing her. But then, you noticed something else. You started to watch her response to your interest. And she seemed to you somehow indifferent, or not so interested to you as you were to her. She didn't give you the ammount of romance you wanted and she seemed so cool about the relationship she even didn't want to think about the future and she wanted to live the here and now. I think, and correct me if I am wrong, that you had the feeling that you gave so much care to her and she didn't return the same amount of care to you.

So you panicked! Suddenly, you started to suspect that she didn't love you as much. And you had to find out what was happening. You had to test her feelings. You needed proofs. Am I right? You started to withdraw your initial offer to see her reactions. You needed her to show you that she didn't want to lose you. You needed her to show you how much she wanted to be with you. Maybe you needed her to display some ammount of anxiousness because this anxiousness means "I love you" to you. When she relaxed you took the message that she didn't love you. She didn't need you. Actually maybe you would like to ask this question to yourself : What love means to you. What woman behaviour do you interpret as love?

You say "Now I actually think that if i played hard to get and didn't give any promises i could even force her to stay here or i could at least have HER ask me to come..... LIKE IT SHOULD BE !" So she should at least ask you to go with her. This would prove that she needed you? That she loved you? If I am wrong, please say so. On the other hand, as you say, for how long could you play tricks with her? You decided to be honest with her and hope that she would return your feelings to you. I think that this was a risk you took and a huge step for you. I really believe this was a huge step for you.

Now, you are so much accusing yourself about what happened. It seems in your eyes that you did a very big mistake back there, is this so? You seem angry with you and afraid too. Without her you have a tough time. She was the remedy to a boredom you cannot cope with. You desperately want to escape from this boredom and she was the cure, wasn't she?
Your friend advise is really scaring, for me too! So, if you want something too much you eventually end up losing it, is this so? That is a very scaring prospect.

 

[Emotions_Blocked]

althought the relationship might never work because of it's own problems, what deeply bothers you is your own part to this and your own fears. I hope I am right on this.

yes,you are.. maybe i'm just trying to find excuses for my fears based on the problems of the relationship. I even sometimes think that maybe it was me who "created" all the problems or maximized them. But i guess it's not. Reality facts sais otherwise.

I think, and correct me if I am wrong, that you had the feeling that you gave so much care to her and she didn't return the same amount of care to you.

exactly. She was talking about the future, but not as vividly/excited as i wanted too. On the other hand, i was doing questions: how will it be, what will we do.
if i was willing to travel abroad for her, i needed something back. maybe something more than usually. I tried to give her opportunities to show me her interest. Little things. Like small tests. Didn't work that much.. I got a lot less than i hoped.

So you panicked! Suddenly, you started to suspect that she didn't love you as much. And you had to find out what was happening. You had to test her feelings. You needed proofs.

exactly.

You needed her to show you that she didn't want to lose you. You needed her to show you how much she wanted to be with you. Maybe you needed her to display some ammount of anxiousness because this anxiousness means "I love you" to you.

exactly. i even used Ultimatums when i saw that her behaviour was really different from the beginning/what i wanted.

What love means to you. What woman behaviour do you interpret as love?
You say "Now I actually think that if i played hard to get and didn't give any promises i could even force her to stay here or i could at least have HER ask me to come..... LIKE IT SHOULD BE !" So she should at least ask you to go with her. This would prove that she needed you? That she loved you?

yes.i believe that if i was patient enough,and live these 3 months without mentioning future, i would finally "make her" open up the subject. It's she who should be asking me to follow her. Maybe thats egoism. I don't know. But it would prove things in my mind.And it would be a really easier step to do.

You decided to be honest with her and hope that she would return your feelings to you. I think that this was a risk you took and a huge step for you. I really believe this was a huge step for you.

Yes it is, but on the other hand, maybe it's a sign of immaturity that i couldn't balance my feelings and detect WHY i had that URGE to fall in love so much to follow a woman abroad. It's not reasonable to think that way 2 weeks after you meet someone. Was it my need to leave my parents? The need to live alone? The need to ESCAPE my BORING reality? Whatever it was it wasnt healthy.

Without her you have a tough time. She was the remedy to a boredom you cannot cope with. You desperately want to escape from this boredom and she was the cure, wasn't she?

Exactly.More because she was an active person, and she made me one. Before I met her i was just... zapping on the TV and going online and going for boring walks.After i met her life seemed like an adventure. (for what it's worth it's something she mentioned also one time we broke up. She wrote "when we met life seemed like a demanding but exciting experience for us" , "now, what am i going to do and what does it matter".
I think we both lived BORING (depressed?) lives before we met. And we still do, although when she spoke after our breakup, she didn't want to show something like that. I don't know if the feelings are over for her, or she is just pretending that she can handle it by making plans for the future,trips,studies etc.
I suppose i'm doing a bit better on the future plans thing,i'm trying to plan big things from September. (not with MUCH enthousiasm though) (she mentally invades my plans every time..)

 

[Persephone]

I even sometimes think that maybe it was me who "created" all the problems or maximized them. But i guess it's not. Reality facts sais otherwise.

i even used Ultimatums when i saw that her behaviour was really different from the beginning/what i wanted.


yes.i believe that if i was patient enough,and live these 3 months without mentioning future, i would finally "make her" open up the subject. It's she who should be asking me to follow her. Maybe thats egoism. I don't know. But it would prove things in my mind.And it would be a really easier step to do

You are pretty sure mentioning the future was a big mistake of yours in this relationship, are you? Reading the above lines gives me the feeling that you believe it was your fault.If only you have controled your feelings, now things would be different. You really needed a reassurance from her part in order for you to be with her, and this reassurance would come if SHE opened up the subject of the future. I don't know if it is egoism. It seems to me more like insecurity, but maybe I am wrong.

Yes it is, but on the other hand, maybe it's a sign of immaturity that i couldn't balance my feelings and detect WHY i had that URGE to fall in love so much to follow a woman abroad. It's not reasonable to think that way 2 weeks after you meet someone. Was it my need to leave my parents? The need to live alone? The need to ESCAPE my BORING reality? Whatever it was it wasnt healthy

No it is not reasonable but it is acceptable if one thinks how strong your need was. I do not know what was the exact need, only you know that. But I understand that it was a strong need, a crave for something. And maybe the way this need was expressed wasn't healthy but surely there is a pretty healthy need inside you that tries to make you pay attention. Your need screams to you. I think it wants to be heard. What do you think about this?

After i met her life seemed like an adventure.
I think we both lived BORING (depressed?) lives before we met. And we still do.
I suppose i'm doing a bit better on the future plans thing,i'm trying to plan big things from September. (not with MUCH enthousiasm though) (she mentally invades my plans every time..)

Surely this love gave you a desire to LIVE. Maybe this has to do with the nature of your need. You made each others lives adventurous. Before you met her your life was depressing...empty...something like a dead life? And she came and lighted a spark, she brought you to life somehow? Is this the feeling?

 

[Emotions_Blocked]

You are pretty sure mentioning the future was a big mistake of yours in this relationship, are you? Reading the above lines gives me the feeling that you believe it was your fault.If only you have controled your feelings, now things would be different. You really needed a reassurance from her part in order for you to be with her, and this reassurance would come if SHE opened up the subject of the future. I don't know if it is egoism. It seems to me more like insecurity, but maybe I am wrong.

About the insecurities: Lots. Basically one about my appearance. It can be fixed but it needs to sacrifice some time. Then i am not feeling independent. Financially. Strong as a man. I like the man-woman separate role models, but i don't feel i can fulfill that man role. I am over-sensitive. I haven't been exposed to Real-life difficulties. Maybe that's why i don't know how strong i am (or not). My EX quickly noticed these things about me, and pointed them in a way that made me even more worried. I want to mention also that she has been almost indepedent for years, of course because of the different culture in her country.(you know, our country, sometimes traps children for years until they break free..)
On the SPECIFIC occasion though, i wasn't feeling that insecure in the beginning, Comparing to the previous years. I was more confident, i had dated many women so i knew how to approach and handle well the initial steps of flirting. I think i m REALLY good at that. And She, was asking me for more and more connection and meetings, so that made me feel even more confident. But, when the thing went into deeper feelings and future plans i didn't handle it well as i said. These territories were knew to me.

but surely there is a pretty healthy need inside you that tries to make you pay attention. Your need screams to you. I think it wants to be heard. What do you think about this?

Yes. I know that that need is. It's to live alone and be independent. I am going to do a first step for this from September. I have tried to do something before i met her, but my parents said it would be a wrong step. Maybe when i met her, i injected that need to the relationship. Who knows what the relationship would be if i didn't have that need? Maybe the situation wasnt so intense after all.

Surely this love gave you a desire to LIVE. Maybe this has to do with the nature of your need. You made each others lives adventurous. Before you met her your life was depressing...empty...something like a dead life? And she came and lighted a spark, she brought you to life somehow? Is this the feeling?

Yes.I am actually Bored of stuff. Everything. Flirting,maybe music are the only two things i'm interested in. Everything else seems boring. Even new stuff. She gave me more than spark! She lit a whole tourch! Maybe both of us for each other.
Right now,as i said, i'm not in the mood to do anything new. Even though my plans for September that would have been really exciting otherwise, now sometimes seem like something "i have to do to move on".
Or seem like a competition to be more adventurous than she is at the moment. (egoism based)
I also have to admit i am imagining things for the long future. That we'll meet randomly, that we'll talk again and marry... I make plans about my future and most of them find her in some place. Is it bad?

 

[Persephone]

About the insecurities: Lots. Basically one about my appearance. It can be fixed but it needs to sacrifice some time. Then i am not feeling independent. Financially. Strong as a man. I like the man-woman separate role models, but i don't feel i can fulfill that man role. I am over-sensitive. I haven't been exposed to Real-life difficulties. Maybe that's why i don't know how strong i am (or not).
My EX quickly noticed these things about me, and pointed them in a way that made me even more worried. I want to mention also that she has been almost indepedent for years, of course because of the different culture in her country.(you know, our country, sometimes traps children for years until they break free..

This relationship has found you on a critical moment of your life, didn't it? I hear that you are trying to form your male identity these days. You have some ideas about how a man should be but you have your doubts about whether you can fulfill this man role. You compare what you know about yourself from your experiences up to now with this man role and you find yourself somehow deficient.
The relationship seems to have turned around these things, too. You probably admired you Ex and were inspired by her independence. For her part, she pointed out your "weaknesses" and this made you more worried.
But, as you say, on this specific occasion you have made a step forward. You know for sure that you are really good at flirting. You are confident about this part of yourself. But when the relationship reached your unknown territoriies, the deep feelings and the future, your confidence turned into thin air.

Yes. I know that that need is. It's to live alone and be independent. I am going to do a first step for this from September. I have tried to do something before i met her, but my parents said it would be a wrong step. Maybe when i met her, i injected that need to the relationship. Who knows what the relationship would be if i didn't have that need? Maybe the situation wasnt so intense after all.

Maybe I am totally wrong but it seems to me that your Ex played the role of a big mirror to you. She had the independence you crave for. Through her you could touch and taste your dream, your need. Is this so or not?
Now, without her, you have returned to your life of boredom. The torch of fire went out and you are left with a black burned wood stick in your hands. You have your plans and your dreams but they lack the ignition this relationship gave to them. She has the fire that keeps you running. Now that she has left, you are not in the mood to fulfil your plans. The only thing that keeps you running is the competition between you and your imagination of the future with her inside it, next to you. Am I right?

I also have to admit i am imagining things for the long future. That we'll meet randomly, that we'll talk again and marry... I make plans about my future and most of them find her in some place. Is it bad?

I do not think it is bad. I think that these imaginations serve a purpose for you right now. Do you think it is bad?