[Trigger] Feeling guilty about my complicity

[Jazzey]

I'm just sharing a little today. I've been struggling lately with my complicity in my sexual "abuse" over the years. I even struggle with the terminology "sexual abuse" because I'm not sure of my complicity in all of it.

I do have vivid memories of certain events in my life. As weird as this all sounds, I think I always sought out a certain personality type. I remember at 12 years old playing hide and seek with a 23 years old. I also remember that I knew that the picture wasn't quite right. And I also remember what ensued during this game of hide and seek - he was a man in the neighborhood. I knew him well and, even though I was scared, I didn't really react to what was happening. And I'm not sure that I understood it either - but I still didn't stop it.

Now, in adulthood, I can appreciate the magnitude of the whole thing - back then...I sincerely had no idea, I think. I remember at 13 years old wanting desperately to 'hang out' with a man who was 24 years old. Again, I was complicit because I had a crush. At that time, I had no idea whatsoever that this was not the norm.

It's only recently that I can appreciate that none of this was ever normal. Now, I'm trying to put the pieces back together.

I'm desperately trying to consolidate all of these thoughts into something manageable. I'm not sure that I was innocent - I hate the term "victim" for myself because of this.

For anyone else, I have no difficulty in calling it what it is. Why is it that for myself, I'm still wondering about the level of complicity? The guilt in all of it is slowly eating me up...I want to go back in history and change so many things - but I can't.

 

[white page]

Re: Feeling guilty of my complicity

Jazzey,

I hear everything you are saying, there is no complicity , as children we trust adults and if we have had inappropriate abusive parenting we don't know that it is possible to say no to an adult. Not reacting is part of that not knowing we can say no. it is not complicity.

As we mature we are able to review the things that happened in a different light. But please don't forget that you did not have that knowledge as a young girl.

 

[Jazzey]

Re: Feeling guilty of my complicity

Thank you WP.

I can appreciate what you're saying from a purely objective perspective. I really can. But from the inside, it's hard to even like myself right now. I think that this is the biggest struggle. This 'objective' versus 'emotional' struggle. Right now, the only perpetrator that I can see is me - the common denominator in the whole thing.

While I can appreciate that I was in no real appreciative capacity to understand - I'm still feeling really guilty about everything - which only pours into the latest events.

I wasn't completely unaware - even back then.

 

[Jazzey]

Re: Feeling guilty of my complicity

...This post will be difficult to respond to - I know.

I'm ok - just mulling things over WP. And thank you. This isn't me being unappreciative, just recognizing that I wouldn't even know where to begin with this type of post.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

It's a somewhat complex issue. First, it really wasn't complicity because there was an imbalance of age, maturity, and authority. Second, based on what you've told us about your mother, you were seeking this from the context of possible/prior abuse and emotional neglect, and possible/probable insecure attachment issues.

And the bottom line is you were a child at the time, with an immature body, immature personality, and immature brain. Consequently, you weren't able to fully understand, appreciate, or forecast the likely outcomes of these incidents.

That's why we have laws to protect children, because they don't have the capacity or the power to protect themselves.

 

[white page]

Jazzey,
I understand what you are saying. But as a young girl with a vague idea of sexuality and a sort of budding awareness and curiosity it is up to the ADULT not to be innappropriate.

If what happened , had been with a boy of your own age , there would have been a different sort of guilt, if you know what I mean, doing seemingly adult things together with someone from a peer group.

I relate totally to what you are saying. I had a crush on a teacher when I was fourteen and one day he tried to kiss me after a school evening do, I was flattered and horrified at the same time but I did let him kiss me, even though I didn't even know how to kiss. I felt tremendous guilt because I had done everything possible so that he would take some notice of me, mainly getting the best marks in his subject and sitting in front of the class.

He as an authority figure was right out of line. I was just a pubescent girl who had no real idea about life at all. It is similar to the oedepian phases of little girls who fall in love with their Dad, a normal Dad knows how to handle it , with kindness and patience. A pervert will take advantage of it. The guys took advantage of you, in the way that teacher took advantage of me. It is they who are unhealthy not you or I.

 

[Jazzey]

Thank you.

And WP, I can relate - thank you for sharing that story.

From a purely intellectual perspective, I can understand this. It's the other part of me that's feeling guilty.

Maybe my narcissistic part?

Thank you Dr. Baxter and WP. :hug:

 

[Trust]

Hey Jazzey!

I understand your feelings of complicity and maybe that's because I can relate to parts of me that still feel very childlike when I think about certain subjects or recall incidents from my own past.

I was sexually "abused" by an older sibling when I was around 10 years old. I put the word abuse in quotes because I still don't really believe that it was abuse - rather I think that the person was young and sexually curious and risked experimenting on me - the closest person he could get to and he hoped he would not get caught.

I remember feeling really awkward and pretending to be asleep, it was an awful and shocking awakening so to speak ? which ignited feelings in me that were competing for my attention ? on the one hand I felt scared and very vulnerable but I also liked the strange new feelings and the stroking that surprisingly felt good and yet I knew on some deep level that something was very wrong! I recall then turning over on my side to see if that would alarm him and maybe he would leave - and it worked and he did.

I did tell my mom about the incident and I think it was because he tried a 2nd time and that's when I told her. She believed me. She spoke with him and it never happened again. We never spoke about it again until many years later, but I feel quite ambivalent about what happened and I don't think it affected me that badly and I did not want it to bother my brother for all his life. I actually felt deeply sorry for him and felt nothing for what had happened to me - weird eh! My feelings at that time were more that I felt responsible for getting my brother in trouble with my mom so I felt disloyal ? and because I did not really trust my mom?s judgement it was really hard to trust her with my secret, but I did anyway. It is one memory of me I have as a child where I am proud that I had the courage to tell and that my mom did not overtly use the information to hurt me. I did hate that my privacy boundary was invaded by my mom having to know this personal ?icky? thing that had happened, and I felt very embarrassed about it for a long while.

Anyway, I think there are very complex feelings associated with sexual experiences at any age - the good and welcome ones and the opposite kind - and I think it is not always cut and dry how we react or feel about things we have experienced in the past. Our feelings don?t have to make sense but if they bother us and make us feel ashamed or guilty then we have a problem.

I was a very precocious child and had a sexual awareness at an early age - a fact I see now as a method I used to find comfort where little was available in the normal ways a child feels and expresses affection with loved ones. Sexual feelings cause us a lot of shame and when the feelings are exploited by a relative, or someone older, or a person of authority, or just any person or circumstance where there is a difference in power, we have complex feelings left over. Confusing feelings like yours of complicity where none existed in fact, but your nagging doubt that it could be the real truth lingers within you - and mine that I was not in any way harmed as if my body is less precious than the next person's - I dismiss the facts. When we have powerful and inappropriate sexual experiences before we are ready on every level to engage in such behaviours, we are left to cope with many a tangled feeling but we are not to blame. And I know you are not complicit even if a teeny part of the child in you enjoyed or welcomed the experience ? like me, you were a child and that?s all you or I need know!

As an adult, you can remember the child in you as I can remember the child in me and we can shower them both with a new and wholesome understanding, affection and endless compassion!

 

[Jazzey]

I was sexually "abused" by an older sibling when I was around 10 years old. I put the word abuse in quotes because I still don't really believe that it was abuse - rather I think that the person was young and sexually curious and risked experimenting on me - the closest person he could get to and he hoped he would not get caught.

Thank you Trust - I've quoted you because as you know already, this IS sexual abuse. And thank you from the bottom of my heart. You've elaborated on sexual abuse in such an eloquent way that I can't just yet. The problem with childhood sexual abuse is that I think many of us want to label it as 'sexual curiosity'. That is precisely what I did with the rapist. I dismissed his earlier behaviour as 'sexual curiosity' rather than appreciating the real level of his depravity (which, in my mind is much more difficult when it's a family member). That opened me up for years of this dismissal of my instincts on what was appropriate and what wasn't. Even as an adult, and without going into details here, I've lived a few things where I felt at fault. On hindsight, I was only at fault for not listening to that internal dialogue telling me to get out.

This last year has been what it is. On a good day, I can be very grateful - I'm grateful to finally understand my life's story, for understanding that we're 'trained' in some capacity, and more importantly, for understanding that there are some wonderful people out there.

On a bad day - the self-reflection gets a little tough because of the new found insight. I wish I could get into that time machine and change things. But I also know that I can't - so I'll live with the knowledge that I have now and hope that I'll do better in the future (without hurting anyone in the process).

Thank you - :heart::hug: I apologize for the lag in my response. Your post took me by surprise. I keep wanting to lull myself in this idea that very few of us have experienced this...Darn that reality thing!

One of my current fears - that I'll be single for the rest of my life. Why in the world would a man want to take part in any of this? That's a scary prospect for me. Never knowing that couple's life again. I have known a couple's life in the past, but for the better part of the last 8 or so years, I've really avoided it because of my own struggles (not to mention the fear that I have of attracting 'another one' - can't do all of this again).

I think that this is one of the absolute worst part of sexual abuse- it completely destroys the victim...I may be wrong here. But I think my self-esteem issues are related to all of this. I don't want to hate myself anymore but haven't yet figure out the way out...

 

[Trust]

Hey Jazzey! :thankyou2:

I know what you mean about being surprised about my story - that's happened to me so many times over my life and it is one of those things I always say to my kids, that they'd be surprised to know the secret lives of others and that if they think they are the only ones with a certain problem, I can say with certainty that others share the same or similar concerns somewhere. Yes, it's not great to know how prevalent some issues are (like sexual abuse), but being able to actually speak about our experiences candidly is a huge step and makes healing not only possible, but likely.

Keeping secrets, the kind that are also strongly attached to shame and guilt can almost destroy the soul, but once the person acknowledges the hurt and brings it out to the open air, healing can take place. There is always some hope shining through every problem -- remember my favorite quote from Leonard Cohen's, Anthem lyrics - "Ring the bells that still can ring, Forget your perfect offering, There is a crack in everything, That's how the light gets in." That is how we should live life, IMO - there is real philosophy in those few sentences!

Jazzey - I have never met you in person obviously, but I trust my instincts about people and my instincts tell me that you are a beautiful young woman inside and out and it's just a matter of time before you find acceptance and healing - and then the perfectly imperfect partner for you will appear and you will believe that everything is possible again - and even better than it ever has been up to now. You will not repeat the past relationship mistakes because you are aware of what to avoid and you know what you want.

Some people believe that you have to be able to love yourself before getting involved with another person, and ideally I would agree, but I think that it is an unrealistic goal. I have never met anyone with completely perfect self-esteem 100% of the time. I think you just have to be open and willing to work on your weaknesses while focusing more on your strengths. We are all people in progress so to speak and if we all waited until we were completely healed and totally together before finding romantic love, then there would be a lot of lonely people in the world and the population would certainly be radically reduced!

Of course, I trust you know what I am saying and it's not that I don't appreciate the concept and importance of nurturing healthy self-esteem, but it is also very important to be kind and forgiving of ourselves and we should be striving to accept ourselves, flaws and beauty marks alike, happy memories and painful ones, and then we will be able to attract the right kind of love - the kind we need - into our more evolved, and healing hearts and minds and souls.

And Jazzey, you will meet someone in the future but you have to get away from here more and get out there socially before that will happen! :lol:

I'm happy we are helping one another and hopefully many others with our journey to self-acceptance! And I know I am in the best company here with you and all our members on this forum. Enjoy a wonderful evening Jazzey! Start dreaming about the future, it's on its way to a destination near you!

 

[Jazzey]

:hug::hug: :heart: thank you Trust...I've heard every word and, for the time being, I'm just being emotional on the whole thing - thank you. :hug:

 

[Andy]

I only read your first post as this is not a subject I am overly comfortable with, so forgive me if I repeat anything that has already been said and hopefully I do not say anything that upsets you as that is not my intent.

I just wanted to say that in my opinion there is no such thing as complicity when you are a child dealing with an adult. They are the adult, you are the child. Whether you had a crush or wanted to be around older adults, it does not matter. You are the child, they are the adult. No need to even think beyond that IMO because it's not your burden or guilt to carry because anything you did was out of innocence or curiosity. An adult should know that and act accordingly.

This is just my opinion. I know it's always easy to look back on things as an adult and analyze a situation but as an adult your looking back through the wrong eyes. I hope I didn't offend you or anyone else. That's just my thoughts on what you wrote.
I'm sorry your having to deal with all these emotions etc. and I hope you can work through them and come out with a better understanding of the child you use to be, but with the complicity thought take right out of there.

:support:

 

[Trust]

Hey STP! :goodposting::thankyou2:


That was a beautiful post and clearly speaks the truth IMO, too!:2thumbs:

 

[Jazzey]

Thank you STP. I know this is a tough topic. So your words mean all the more to me tonight.

I am figuring things out slowly for myself. And I'm choosing to view this as a step on the right direction. I don't have any intention of wasting any more of my life on dwelling on any of this...I will work through the emotions that it elicits.

Thanks STP :heart::hug::hug:

 

[Andy]

That's good to hear Jazzey.
Deal with it and let it go. If only it were that simple eh? I know it is so not as easy as that but you know what I mean.
You sound like you are really attacking a lot of your own personal issues lately and that is so awesome. It's hard work so you should be very proud of yourself.:goodjob:

 

[Jazzey]

Thank you STP - I'm bound and determined to actually listen to what's been going on with me in the past few years - life's too short to throw it away.

And I don't want to spend any more time just feeling sorry for myself. A decade goes by quickly...No more. I'm going to try and enjoy every minute of every day....

:heart::hug::hug:

 

[Andy]

A decade definitely goes by quickly. I can attest (is that the right word?I'm so dumb lol) to that.
I doubt you were feeling sorry for yourself. Maybe you just weren't at the right place and the right mind set and all that goes with that to decide that you were ready to deal and see what was next in your life. Maybe? lol:blush:

I am sure that all your hard work will pay off greatly. :support::goodjob::support:

 

[Jazzey]

There's absolutely northing 'dumb' about you STP....:heart::hug::hug:

 

[Cat Dancer]

I think it's really, really common to feel this way about being abused, whatever kind of abuse it was. I think it's something that can be worked through in therapy and I'm glad you're doing that. :hug:

 

[Andy]

There's absolutely northing 'dumb' about you STP....:heart::hug::hug:

lol Thanks Jazzey.
Geeez. I had to read back because I didn't know what you were talking about. I don't even realize when I insult myself. Gotta get back to work on that! One of these days I will have a healthy self-esteem!igsfly:

Hope you have a good day.