- Thread starter David Baxter PhD
- Start date
Aye, thank you for that. I think that the accepted definition of what constitutes "forgiveness" and what it's really supposed to mean (whatever that is,) gets all confusalated with my Roman Catholic upbringing. Therefore I'm having to "unlearn" some things about what is truly required of me to be a good person. This is one more of those ties I'm breaking to move on with my life.
I appreciate that you validated my feelings, Dr. DJB. They've been hard to feel, much less express, and I still feel guilty for feeling the hatred and anger. The gentle reminders that it's really okay to feel what I feel are still necessary, unfortunately. Thank you for the nudge.
In this case -- and I believe you are referring to the way we, as victims, continue to blame ourselves for what happened -- the answer is simple and complicated, if not seemingly impossible, at the same time.
The simple answer? There is no need for us to forgive ourselves for what happened. Even if there was potentially something we could have done to mitigate the damage someone else caused, the fact remains that we did not cause the damage, nor did we intend for damage to be caused. With this knowledge, it should be easy to see that we have no need for forgive ourselves, because we did NOTHING WRONG, and we did NOTHING TO DESERVE IT.
But this is not how your brain thinks, nor is it how mine thinks (although I'm getting closer to seeing the light, maybe.) So if you'll let me take myself out of the equation and offer an objective opinion, I say to you this:
You do not need to forgive yourself for anything. What you need is give yourself some much needed kindness and quit kicking yourself for something that is entirely the fault of someone else.
Yes, we both might have done things differently, knowing what we know now. That's great, just in case, you know, the exact same circumstances ever come up again. We did what we did with what we had at the time, J. For all either of us knows, we might have handled our respective situations far better than anyone else would have under the same circumstances.
What I do know is that we didn't deserve it, we didn't ask for it, and we did nothing that requires forgiveness here. Nothing. From anyone. Stop smacking yourself around for someone else's atrocious acts.
Please?
Last edited:
David Baxter PhD
Late Founder
That was my point: That's sometimes a lot more important.
David Baxter PhD
Late Founder
Exactly! Very well put, CD! :2thumbs:
Yup, I think the definition of the word "forgiveness" has a lot to do with how each of us deals with it. Different cultures are going to think of it in different ways, just like the way the word "victim" has taken on connotations of negativity.
CD nails it. It's about letting go, moving on, and breaking whatever ties are necessary to do it.
This is a confusing and exhausting topic. I need to go off and search for some levity now.
CD nails it. It's about letting go, moving on, and breaking whatever ties are necessary to do it.
This is a confusing and exhausting topic. I need to go off and search for some levity now.
DrMikeMiller
MVP
Good article. Something most of us need to work on!
songsforthedeaf
Member
i had trouble with this for awhile and actually yoga helped me
Futurepower3000
Member
but..Who are we to forgive? 
Forgive what? Don't we all have issues and errors.. I think the work has to be in ourselves, beyone all this drama?and try learn to leave behind the need to forgive! That?s a winner for me.
Forgive what? Don't we all have issues and errors.. I think the work has to be in ourselves, beyone all this drama?and try learn to leave behind the need to forgive! That?s a winner for me.
Peter
MVP
I think there are two basic ways to be, either you are fearful or loving. When loving, there is nothing to forgive. When fearful, forgiveness is sought. I have not yet evolved to full enlightenment where life is lived fearlessly and unconditionally. I get caught up with human ignorance and experience resentments that seek forgiveness. When that happens, and after I had enough of it, I get reminded of a powerful method to overcome it. I pray for the person, place, thing or situation which I resent. It may sound like a crazy thing to do, but it works. My prayer may go like this: ?I pray that ?. will become enlightened, see the truth, and become fearless to love unconditionally.? My sincere prayer also reminds me of the deeper truths, and then suddenly, I realize there is nothing to forgive.
Futurepower3000
Member
BINGO!:2thumbs:
How do we know if we already forgive someone? I hate somebody because he done something bad to me. I hate him all my life but i told myself that i already forgave him even if he didn't ask for forgiveness. The psychologist also advised me to forgive him and let go of the past and pain. But whenever i see him or just hear his voice, my anger rises up again.
HBas
Member
Wow that is a tough question. Personally,I believe that it is like anything in life that gets easier with time and practice. I am struggling to forgive my ex but I wake up every day giving him a hug in my head because people that get it over their hearts to hurt other people must be broken in some way whether they acknowledge it or not. So, to remind myself that I am above hurting I give him a hug (in my head) and try to last a tad longer in peace mode than the previous day.
I heard it described so well once when someone was asked why do they go to church if they cannot remember the sermons. He answered that he has supper every night and though he cannot remember what his wife has cooked every night for the past 20 years, it has kept him fed, strong and healthy. Like with the body, the same is true for the mind and the soul. Going to church has kept his soul fed, strong and healthy.
I have incorporated that thinking to try and keep my mind healthy too. It may be easier said than done but I think continuously trying and trying and trying may seem fruitless when you don't see the results after a while but in the end it might be keeping your thoughts fed positively which in time might just make it stronger
and healthier.
Just a thought. Keep on trying ... I struggle with this every day.
Take care!
I heard it described so well once when someone was asked why do they go to church if they cannot remember the sermons. He answered that he has supper every night and though he cannot remember what his wife has cooked every night for the past 20 years, it has kept him fed, strong and healthy. Like with the body, the same is true for the mind and the soul. Going to church has kept his soul fed, strong and healthy.
I have incorporated that thinking to try and keep my mind healthy too. It may be easier said than done but I think continuously trying and trying and trying may seem fruitless when you don't see the results after a while but in the end it might be keeping your thoughts fed positively which in time might just make it stronger
and healthier.
Just a thought. Keep on trying ... I struggle with this every day.
Take care!
Thank you for the reply HBas. I also struggle with my pain everyday. There are days that i don't know what to do and just wanted to scream. My hatred seems like a big wall that surrounds me and makes me remember not to trust anyone. I don't have much friends so i don't go out. Ever since i was young, i feel like i am not really normal. There's something wrong with me. The psychologist said i am prone to abuse because i am loner and just like to sit in a corner and observe everyone. I envy those are born normally and happy with their lives. Sigh...I wish i am like them too. I am already in this condition when 1 person hurts me so bad. That's when i tried to kill myself. Luckily i was saved but ever since i can't stop thinking of killing myself. It's hard to live in this wrong world especially living with those bad people. I wish to God i can forget everything and be healed.
Budoaiki
MVP
Myjade84,
Personally I've found thinking of the world as good or bad can create unrealistic expectations and similarly with people. I think people do things with good and bad intentions but I try not to think of people of people as strictly good or bad because I find that feeds my anger and breeds self doubt. Undoubtedly there are combative people who seek out those who are suffering to victamise them for a power trip because of their own insecuraties that in my opinion is their weakness.
Sometimes we can't avoid those types of people because we have to interact with them at work, in our family, where we live lika neighbor or throughout the course of the day.
I view these combative people as insecure and the various forms of aggression as acts of desperation from this perspective I find compassion and forgiveness. It doesn't erase the harm or cause them to change but it helps prevent the internal conflict and doubt that these actions can cause which can also prevent anger from becoming vindictive towards them. That also can help prevent the anger from causing guilt and that cycle which can cause anger to snowball which through stress can cause us to be more vulnerable to these types of actions.
If the person knows what they did or not, if they are willing to apologize or not, if they demonstrate any compassion or not, these things have helped me to forgive, not to forget or condone anything but to be at peace with myself and my own feelings regardless of the actions of others.
Personally I've found thinking of the world as good or bad can create unrealistic expectations and similarly with people. I think people do things with good and bad intentions but I try not to think of people of people as strictly good or bad because I find that feeds my anger and breeds self doubt. Undoubtedly there are combative people who seek out those who are suffering to victamise them for a power trip because of their own insecuraties that in my opinion is their weakness.
Sometimes we can't avoid those types of people because we have to interact with them at work, in our family, where we live lika neighbor or throughout the course of the day.
I view these combative people as insecure and the various forms of aggression as acts of desperation from this perspective I find compassion and forgiveness. It doesn't erase the harm or cause them to change but it helps prevent the internal conflict and doubt that these actions can cause which can also prevent anger from becoming vindictive towards them. That also can help prevent the anger from causing guilt and that cycle which can cause anger to snowball which through stress can cause us to be more vulnerable to these types of actions.
If the person knows what they did or not, if they are willing to apologize or not, if they demonstrate any compassion or not, these things have helped me to forgive, not to forget or condone anything but to be at peace with myself and my own feelings regardless of the actions of others.
Thank you Budoiki. I know i have to handle this well so i can interact with people normally. But right now it's very hard for me to do so. I am trying harder to think positively everyday and not to let my dark thoughts win over me. I know not everyone is bad but i just don't want to be hurt again. Trusting someone again would be a little difficult as of now.
Budoaiki
MVP
Myjade84,
It's not an easy thing to trust, I struggle with that myself especially when stressed no real easy answer. I try to take it one interaction at a time and build up trust for and with people. Even with therapy I had a hard time opening up because previously when people got to know me and all I have been through they expect more anger which don't get me wrong I had plenty of and struggled with it but I've also seen what it can do to the person and the people around them.
I don't know if that's the case with you but for me I was afraid of my anger, I was...and still am but to a lesser degree of people getting to know me, caring about me and that pity often came when people asked about my family.
The thing is if I am honest with myself, brutally honest then yes I been through some pretty hard times in my life and I have some scars from it but like everyone who's had to overcome trauma and or had struggles there's is so much more to me than that. The things we go through the struggles and suffering they may leave scars but they also provide insights, unique perspectives that allow us to see things others may not and we each deserve friendship and love.
It's not easy but with patience, work and practice it does get easier and through the perspective of others you can see things you have to offer that you might not know are there.
It's not an easy thing to trust, I struggle with that myself especially when stressed no real easy answer. I try to take it one interaction at a time and build up trust for and with people. Even with therapy I had a hard time opening up because previously when people got to know me and all I have been through they expect more anger which don't get me wrong I had plenty of and struggled with it but I've also seen what it can do to the person and the people around them.
I don't know if that's the case with you but for me I was afraid of my anger, I was...and still am but to a lesser degree of people getting to know me, caring about me and that pity often came when people asked about my family.
The thing is if I am honest with myself, brutally honest then yes I been through some pretty hard times in my life and I have some scars from it but like everyone who's had to overcome trauma and or had struggles there's is so much more to me than that. The things we go through the struggles and suffering they may leave scars but they also provide insights, unique perspectives that allow us to see things others may not and we each deserve friendship and love.
It's not easy but with patience, work and practice it does get easier and through the perspective of others you can see things you have to offer that you might not know are there.
Budoaiki, thank you so much. Your words reached me. I'm crying a bit right now. Yes, we deserve to be loved like everyone else. But i am wondering why they couldn't give us the love we truly deserve and yet give it to normal people so easily. We are the ones that should be understood and taken care of and yet we are always the people who are ignored and left behind in a corner while everyone is having fun.
It's not our fault to have this illness but when i look at their eyes (my family), i can see that they are blaming me. This is the reason why i couldn't stand looking at other people's eyes when i talk with them and it made my condition worse.
It's not our fault to have this illness but when i look at their eyes (my family), i can see that they are blaming me. This is the reason why i couldn't stand looking at other people's eyes when i talk with them and it made my condition worse.
Replying is not possible. This forum is only available as an archive.
Similar threads
