I wish spanking were illegal

[rdonovan1]

Would you spank a deaf, autistic or a child in pain?
These children would not be able to respond to talk for one reason or another.



As everyone knows this kind of behaviour is learned, learned from bad parenting in the first place. You know "role models". Do you have any children rdonovan1?

I don't have any children, but I have been around enough children to know as to what they are really capable of. If you think one of two children is bad, then you have never been a school bus driver before.

I have driven school bus in the past and I know that they are capable of all sorts of things. I have also driven special ed kids as well and there is definitely a difference in the way they act.

Children like you describe act the way that they do because they have a real and legitimate problem. The children that I am describing are ones that do or should know the difference between right and wrong, but because of poor parenting and lack of proper discipline they tend to think that they know it all and that they have all of the answers.

Basically what they are is rebellious towards everyone because they were not taught proper boundaries and that is why we have had incidents like the Columbine, Colorado incident and it is why we have gangs.

 

[white page]

As I said bad parenting produces confused and asocial children. Not a lack of spanking.
Thank you for agreeing with me rdonovan1.

 

[rdonovan1]

I wish that I did have children, but until I am able to find that one right woman for me it will never happen and that is a simple fact.

If I had children of my own, I would teach them that it is not allright to bully or pick on anyone for any reason and to that should respect other peoples thoughts, feelings, beliefs and opinions as long that they are not oppressing or harming anyone in any way.

I would also teach them they need to stand up for what is right and that they have a right to be treated with kindness, courtesy and respect. They would also be taught to defend themselves both verbally and physically, but that they should never cause another physical harm unless it was absolutely necessary.

Basically what they woud learn from me is good morals and values and whether they liked it or not I would not tolerate bad behavior from them for any reason.

They would learn self directed behavior and that is something that the martial arts tends to teach.

My daughters would learn how to be women and my sons would learn how to be men. All would know how to defend themselves and all would know that no one can take away their freedom, their self confidence, or their self esteem and self worth.

Both would have a healthy understanding and respect for the opposite sex and both would be encouraged to discover who they really were as people.

There is a saying in Wicca (which I am not a part of at all) that goes 'If it harms none, so shall it be done'.

 

[HBas]

White Page, see attached.

Do not allow anyone to through the Bible at you, everyone interprets the Bible in their own way, which does not make it right ... or wrong for that matter! The Rod and Rebuke - seems to me like you need a good balance - and giving someone the Rod does not mean spanking them. I cannot clrearly see the Bible telling people to Hit their Children anywhere, it's clear about disciplining them though.

One more thing, if my child was disabled, I may have had a different approach to discipline - every child is different and has different needs! Thanks for touching the toppic and making me think about my actions and reasons a bit - always good to check out yourself and your reasons for doing things. I have to admit that I would not have done a thing different ... with my child that is
Take care

Proverbs 29:15 (New King James Version) Change
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Young's Literal Translation

(15) The rod and rebuke give wisdom,
But a child left to himself brings shame to his mother.


Copyright ? 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.

If a child is "left to himself," where is his training coming from? Obviously, in this case, mom and dad are not having a great impact on their child. The training must then be coming from society, most likely from the child's peers. Because "foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child" (Proverbs 22:15), a child left to himself brings shame—he is bound to get into trouble if his training is haphazard or undirected, or if he is not drilled or disciplined. The flipside of this verse says, "But the rod of correction will drive it far from him." The rod symbolizes that someone has taken an interest in the outcome of this child's life. He is giving direction, correction, instruction, to steer this child where he is to go. The training, the teaching, makes all the difference in the world.

David, though a man after God's own heart, did not take an active hand in teaching Adonijah. In this verse God states why Adonijah rebelled. In essence, David actually encouraged his son to rebel by not taking an interest in rearing him. David failed to train him in the way he should go, so that he would not depart from it. Instead, David trained him in a way that was bound to produce rebellion. This flaw of David's shows up in others of his children: Absalom, Amnon, and others. It does not matter whether one is a child of God having His Spirit or not. If a parent does not carry through with the right kind of training, then the results will surface in his children.

 

[white page]

Hbas,
Thank you for your post, please do not take it as a personal criticism of your parenting, when members advocat a total ban of corporal punishment towards children, I know that parenting is an individual and sensitive subject.

It is evident that a child needs to have good role models in order to become a decent and responsible adult. I see the privelege of bringing up a child, not as a matter of training, more as a matter of showing a good example and guidance towards responsible and
ethically moral behaviour.

A child has to know that there are choices, and to learn to weigh up and decide which are the right choices to make, training entails no choice, and is perhaps apt to produce an individual who will at some point or other counter react to the training in dramatic ways.

 

[rdonovan1]

When I was growing up I was spanked for things that I did wrong. My Grandparents on my mother's side were very stern and devout Baptists and between them and what I have learned from the martial arts I learned what right and wrong really meant.

I don't believe in assaulting anyone for any reason except in self defense or in matters where force is required like warfare or something along those lines.

I basically believe that it is best to be nice to people and that you should not only be honest with both other people, but with yourself as well. I also believe that a person should not limit themselves at all and that it is best for them to do everything that they can to educate and improve both themselves and the overall qualities of their lives.

I also believe in being true to who you really are. More often than not most of us tend to develop very unhealthy attitudes towards both ourselve's and other's that tend to color our perception of the world.

Psychology tends to call these negative behaviors as self-defeating behaviors and they are basically like to doing things such as telling yourself that you are going to quite smoking or that you are going to do something else in the coming year, yet unfortunately most people never really follow through on their promises to themselve's and that is why it is called a self-defeating behavior.

NLP tends to use another term and that term is called a limiting belief. Because the mind is a lot like a computer, what you put into your mind and what you tell yourself is what you are going to get out of it. If you tell yourself that you can't do something, then you are right. If you tell yourself that you can do something then you are right again.

In computerease that is called GIGO - Garbage In, Garbage Out.

Because of these unhealthy ideas, attitudes and behaviors that we ourselve's were subjected to by our own parents we tend to project and transfer those unhealthy thoughts, attitudes, behaviors, and ideas onto our kids and as a result they start to take on and display those same behaviors, attitudes, thoughts, and beliefs and that is why I believe that the best way to teach children is to set good and positive examples for them to follow while at the same time encouraging them to be themselve's and to pursue activities that are not only positive in nature, but that will allow them to learn and to grow in a positive sense.

Having a Clark Kent perception is great for the most part. It is also unhealthy in that it tends to teach people to become complacent and rude because eventually that can and often does turn negative and that is why proper balance is so important.

Children are watching what we say and do and as to how we treat each other and they are learning from it as well and that is why I believe it is best to set positive examples by being good role models for them.

 

[HBas]

Thanks White Page,

Don't worry, I never do - I understand well enough that we are just chatting. It is a very sensitive and personal thing but I would never take it as personal criticism from anybody that is not personally involved in my situation. I take it as opinions and do not hesitate to give mine because that is how we grow and learn how other people perceives things. I do value the opportunity to be part of a forum with real people and real feelings. Thanks for the reply.

HB

 

[Banned]

I am now in my mid-thirties, a grown adult.

When I think back to my early childhood, and all the spankings I used to get, and the reasons for them, one thing is clear - thirty years later, I don't remember the physical pain of the spankings, but I do remember the amount of fear involved. Fear that someone I was supposed to be able to love and trust, was now going to hurt me, in the name of teaching me.

Instead of hitting me to try to convey a message, my parents could have talked to me. I would have much better memories now, as an adult, of that, than I would of being spanked.

I remember when I was about four years old - I got nasty, nasty spankings regularly from my dad. The reason? At the age of four, I said to my mom "You're not my real mom. You can't tell me what to do." (I was adopted, and knew it from the time I could talk.)

To me, that was abuse. Plain and simple. I was four year's old for God's sake. That's the best they could do with a four year old???

And my brother learned to abuse me from the awesome example set by my parents. "Surely if it's ok for them to hit her, it's ok, even my right, for me to hit her." He beat the **** out of me regularly, my entire childhood. That was the only example he had of how to deal with conflict.

I get the therapy bills as an adult.

(But don't ask me if I was abused as a child, because I will scream "no" from the hills. I'm so very conflicted today.)

 

[HBas]

Hey Turtle,

Yea, that is totally the oposite of what I had and maybe why I do not understand the trauma side so well - I had a few spankings but never extreme and I can count them on my one hand ... The way you describe it makes me understand why there are so many people that totally despise spanking - I would too!

Oh, White Page - the bible peace was meant for Cat Dancer and I adressed the whole mail in reply to you - Sorry!

HB

 

[Cat Dancer]

Oh, White Page - the bible peace was meant for Cat Dancer and I adressed the whole mail in reply to you - Sorry!

HB

Just curious, but why is it addressed to me?

 

[HBas]

Also, I am SICK of my mother in law telling us that NOT spanking is abuse. This coming from a woman who beat her children until they bled? Hello? Also she says not spanking is going against the Bible. I don't think so. Maybe it's one of the reasons her own children can't stand her to this day.

That's why - I could not find the Bible telling me that not spanking is wrong. Still does not change the way I feel but people should never twist the facts according to their own oppinion - it is written like it is.

I was giggling when you said 'curios' and wanted to reply that "Curiosity killed the cat" but would have been less than appropriate? hehe still giggling.

Have a great day.

 

[kfan]

I agree with you cat. Someone has to stop these people from hitting their kids under the disguise of "discipline."

---------- Post Merged at 01:23 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 01:20 PM ----------

as for your mother in law cat. It's your child. She has no business sticking her nose. pLEASE keep the poor child away from her.