Like being sedated - and not in a good way

[Misha]

About feeling manipulative.... I struggle with that hugely. One thing I find though is that when I share my fear of being manipulative with whoever is caring for me, they really do understand a little better (usually!). It's like admitting you're scared to speak in public really calms you down at the beginning of a presentation or speech.
Usually I don't even have to speak or act to be labelled "manipulative" by doctors - my diagnosis of BPD does that for me. But it is something that can be overcome.... not only the reputation and fear, but also the times when you act in ways that are misinterpreted. Eventually you learn how to communicate in healthier ways.

 

[braveheart]

Being treated warmly and.. valued.. gives me that feeling of not being ugly. She looks at me and doesn't look scared or ridiculing, or distant or angry or disappointed in me.

Thought processes that lead me to feel ugly and a freak... out alone with noone 'on my side'. Being crowded, insignificant. Open. Raw. Exposed. Vulnerable. At risk. Nothing to hold onto.

The thing with manipulation [which I will address a bit more, in response to Misha, in a bit...] is that it comes from my desires to be loved, to be protected, and...
I cried yesterday in therapy when my therapist asked me where she fitted in, if I didn't exist... and it reminded me that she cares.. and how can she still care when I feel I'm such a hopeless case... [except deep down in the healthy part of me I know I'm not hopeless...]

Being yanked out of present reality into muteness then emotional self annihilation and destruction.. yes, that does make me very very angry. And I feel just as powerless as I did 'back then' only maybe more so..
A friend - who was on the therapy training course with me, but she left even before I did - once told me to tell this destructive mind set to "Sod off" [not sure if that'll be censored! Being as it's kind of London slang...] But it's not as simple as that.

Yes, discovering myself is very precious.

Thank you..

Misha - thank you.. There's more I wanted to say, but I don't have the words right now. I'll come back to this..

 

[Into The Light]

so somewhere you have made a connection that says being unwanted = being ugly? am i correct when i say that? and then when you feel unwanted (even if that may not be reality, but purely what's happening in your mind), you feel ugly.

i don't think you are manipulative in actual fact. you are just looking to be accepted and loved, but with your past you are afraid of asking for it, so you try to get those needs met in roundabout ways. when i see the word manipulative i think of some kind of a con-artist who is only out to get himself what he wants without caring or feeling for others whatsoever. i have a difficult time believing that that is part of who you are.

when you get angry about the process of being dragged down and attacked in your mind, can you use that anger somehow to say you aren't going to go along with it anymore? that it isn't acceptable any longer?

 

[Halo]

A friend - who was on the therapy training course with me, but she left even before I did - once told me to tell this destructive mind set to "Sod off" [not sure if that'll be censored! Being as it's kind of London slang...] But it's not as simple as that.

That sounds like a really great idea to be able to say that to the destructive mind set but if only it were that easy. I know that it takes lots and lots of practice. Do you practice telling the destructive mind set to "sod off" when you can? I would think that the more you practice it the easier it will become....or one would hope.

Take care
:hug: :hug:

 

[braveheart]

Thanks. I'll reply properly when I get in from work.

Someone elsewhere has referred to my negative self concept as 'useless dwelling'. And was very patronising. It's.. more than that. Self-hatred seeped into my very soul. When I was 18 I choreographed a dance "The abused soul" before the word abuse was even really in my vocabulary. I don't know where I got the word from.
It's not as easy as repeating a few affirmations. When you're as far as walking down the road and hiding your face with your hand in case people see it and laugh... Noone close has ever told me I'm beautiful. Because I'm not. Yes, split-off-me is ready to go into a rant now about how much of a 'retarded shrimp' I am. Let's try not to go there.

 

[braveheart]

I was told I was ugly by my peers.
And of course being unable to have the healthy affection and mirroring from my parents meant I didn't get to feel I was beautiful. I was never 'daddy's little girl' because daddy was always consumed by his own violent rage and self hatred and busy hating women and the world in general. Being told you'd have to get down on the floor and eat your food like a dog if you made a mess, doesn't make you feel very beautiful. Neither does being told to go away and rot...

I've read some stuff online about Borderline PD in the past couple of days, and it's damned people with it as being manipulative and horrible people. That kind of thing. From a mental health professional. Apparantly.
Anyway, yes, I recognise I am not truly manipulative. Not very much, anyway. Maybe.

I'm trying to redirect my anger. It is helping a bit. I can't help but feel depressed though, in seeing how violent my self-hatred has been, and how I've projected that out. It aches like a heavy weight inside my being that I don't know how to shift.

 

[ladylore]

I have had to deal with alot of anger myself. What I realized is that all the self-loathing was anger I was feeling towards those that hurt me. It just wasn't safe enough to express it so it was turned inwards. Children just can't get angry at the adults around them because if they do who will look after their needs?

Its ok to be angry at what happened to you - it wasn't right. You are a fantastic, bright, empathetic, compassionate woman who deserved to be treated with respect and love.

 

[Halo]

Braveheart

You are definitely not ugly or manipulative but you most definitely are as Ladylore said:

a fantastic, bright, empathetic, compassionate woman who deserved to be treated with respect and love.

We respect you and love you and always will. You have never been anything negative in our eyes and never will be. No matter what anyone from your past may have said to you, they don't and didn't know the real Braveheart that we know.

Try to keep the words in your head of the people that know you best....they are the ones that you can trust as real.

:hug: :friends:

 

[Into The Light]

i know that any human being would feel ugly and unloved if they had been treated the way you have been. with that kind of treatment, that kind of hatred around you, what else can you believe when you are a child? it must be you, because the entire world is sending you the same message. it is outrageous that no one protected you. it is tragic that no one stood up for you. there was never anything wrong with you, braveheart, it was all the people in your life around you. but i know that that is very difficult to truly believe when you've lived through all the bullying and the put downs and the threats. and the beliefs that we form as children take firm root and it takes a lot of work to undo the inaccurate beliefs.

you are an amazing person. i see you like a flower that is slowly but surely emerging from the ground. one day you will be in full bloom, and that will be the day you've healed from your past.

 

[braveheart]

Thank you.. I'll reply properly later this evening, after therapy and work.

 

[braveheart]

We are working through my defence mechanisms. Which are really intense right now. And I'm aware of them. Which is good.

I'm not sure what else to say.

I'm really seeing clearly now how I have always been vulnerable. Ever since day 1. This is a step towards self acceptance.
That and holding all of me. Including the dark places.

I'm me. I'm me. I'm me.
And it aches.

 

[Misha]

Braveheart, I just want to say that you are a really strong person to be dealing with the things that you are. I know that I often forget to give myself credit for my hard work because it seems so less productive than the kind of "work" others do. But it IS productive, and working on yourself takes more strength than a lot of people have. Good for you!

 

[Halo]

Braveheart,

I am glad that you are working through things in therapy as difficult as they are. Doing the hard work is never easy nor is it fun but it is something that has to be done. I am proud of you for doing the difficult stuff....you are courageous and strong :heart:

Take care
:hug: :hug:

 

[Into The Light]

you're you. and that isn't a bad thing. :hug: :hug: :hug:

 

[braveheart]

Thank you..