Miss my sister

[healthbound]

Hmmm. I have mixed feelings (or thoughts? lol) about your post. After I wrote out a long response, I decided to delete it and simply ask your thoughts about another question I have...

1) Do you think our thoughts always preceed our feelings and then our actions - rather than feelings preceeding thoughts or actions?

 

[comfortzone]

Healthbound,

There are many different theories regarding thoughts and feelings. It seems as though thoughts and feelings can be simultaneous. The way that the brain is "set up" is that your executive function is your ability to reason about your feelings. The event happens, then you think about what just happened, then you emotionally react to what just happened (based upon the thought you have as one can have a core belief that influences the way we think and feel about things). Thoughts can involve our interpretation of the events. When we have distorted thoughts about a particular event (usually based upon a previous experience and then a belief that was developed from it) we will react to this event with negative thoughts and thus we have negative feelings. This process can happen in a very short amount of time. But to be specific to your question: feelings and reactions to events may appear to be first but it depends. Such as anger, it is a secondary emotion (a reaction to feelings of hurt, frustration and etc occurs following one's thoughts regarding the precipitating event). But you see our thoughts can be automatic resulting in a quick emotional or behavioral reaction to the event.

I also believe that by changing our core beliefs and the resulting automatic thoughts, we can change overall perceptions, feelings, and actions.

A Greek philosopher (Epictetus) said, "The thing that upsets people is not what happens but what they think it means."

 

[healthbound]

So...why do I need to grieve in the first place then?

Could I not simply work hard to create a new belief or perception that does not include sadness, fear, abandonment or loss?

I ask because I believe after going through extensive CBT after my sister died, I learned that I could trick my brain (thus my feelings). If my feelings follow my thoughts, than isn't it true that I could alter my thoughts so that I don't feel at all? In another forum when someone asked if one could consciously dissociate I responded with, "Yes, I think so because I think I chose to do so after my sister's death".

However, my "cutting off" the part of me that feels is a potential reason for why I am feeling so much about her death 12 years later.

But again, it were a simple matter of retraining my thoughts/perceptions...wouldn't I be better off just doing that then having to go through this process of feeling?

Interesting conversation.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

I don't think so. having been through it myself personally as well as with many clients, I don't think CBT really works for grief. I think you have to feel it.

If you haven't read it yet, see Grief and Bereavement in Accidental or Sudden Death -- especially the parts on legacy. I think that's the key.

 

[comfortzone]

Healthbound,

I am not suggesting that anyone shut off their feelings. But instead try to understand their feelings in relation to their past experiences and how those past experiences are affecting the way one thinks or believes. I was explaining the process of how we arrive at our feelings and core beliefs. I was not implying that you stop feeling and I was not suggesting that CBT to be used for bereavement. I am sorry that I did not explain myself well enough. It is so different when we are in front of one another where we can see the expressions of each other.

I want to repeat what I said so you know where I am coming from regarding your sister's death and your feelings.

Therapy can be kind of a re-parenting for people...so that they are given the opportunity to grow, to learn, and to develop into the beautiful and wonderful individual who they are. Healthbound...I am so thankful that you are receiving therapy! I liked how you described how you had no power over your sister's death but how you do have control over how you perceive and react to her death. Some one this morning said to me, "How would you feel if you knew your dad was dying?" (along those lines) Other people there told her how everyone experiences death. I witnessed how human beings have a hard time listening to others when they are speaking of something we are all vulnerable to. She made her statement looking at me. I could feel her pain and I knew that I could say nothing that could relieve her pain. So I decided to walk over to her. I asked her if she wanted a hug. She said yes. I hugged her and told her I was sorry about her father. I think that she was able to share her pain with me and I heard her and did not try to give her anything but my support. I realize your pain is similar as this woman's. I can't take away your pain but we can support you THROUGH this situation. Sending you my best,

 

[healthbound]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for both of your responses. I've always been fascinated about resiliency, locus of control and how our perceptions, experiences and feelings relate to each other.

I realize you weren't suggesting that I (or anyone else) shut off feelings. That one was entirely MY idea. I know there's a lot more to CBT then I'm aware of hence, some of my questions. And I know you are very supportive and care about my progress

And, of course, I've got another question...

How do I know if I'm grieving within the "healthy" parameters? How do I know when I'm finished grieving? Is it normal to have such a hard time with emotions?

Hmmmm...just realized something...I tend to default to my analytical self when my emotions are getting too intense. Inquisitive and analytical. Like, if I can get into some great conversations about CBT, then I'm still learning but I'm not feeling.

Doh!

I think I'll make a bit of time for myself everyday this week when I will allow myself to just feel whatever I'm feeling. I can be analytical for the rest of the day if I want, but I will also give myself time to feel. Perhaps it sounds rediculous? I am trying to allow myself to feel more so that I can create a bit more balance between my thinking and feeling (contrary to how I have functioned in the past ).

 

[ThatLady]

I think you've hit on a plan, hon! Just let yourself feel. We don't have to assign paramaters within which our grieving must fall, nor do we need to set a date to be "finished" grieving. Our feelings are what they are. There is no right or wrong way to feel.

There is expected to be a difference between the way we process our emotions in the case of the death of someone who has lived a long, full life as opposed to how we'd process those emotions in the case of a young and vital person's death. It's not that one is valued or loved more than the other. It's just that death is expected in the first case, and is considered "normal", while in the latter case death comes unexpectedly and we aren't prepared to deal with it. The latter will bring about a longer and more difficult grieving process in most cases.

Another thing we have to realize is that we never really stop grieving the loss of someone we love. We learn to cope. We learn to miss the person without feeling such all-encompassing, paralyzing anguish. We learn to remember the good times, the laughter, and the closeness we shared. We still feel the loss, though, and we'll still have times when the tears come. It's a part of life.

 

[healthbound]

Thanks TL,

Today I feel panic, sad and very sick to my stomach. I'm also aware that I desperately want to "give up" on my day and go back to bed. But, I'm not going to. After I got up and looked at everything I had to do today I felt worse, so I decided to take a couple off my list.

Thank God I have an appointment with my therapist in about 45 mins.

 

[healthbound]

My appointment with A was good. I cried for about 40 minutes and we talked about my feelings of disappointment in my mom, dad and sister for "giving up".

We talked about how I'm able to incorporate feelings into my life now and how I'm finally learning how to feel them for short periods of time. Like, after my son went to bed last night and I was washing my face I just began to cry and then cry more when I had my face in the towel so I wouldn't wake him up. I did this for about 10mins and then stopped.

I'm learning how to balance and not become as overwhelmed with my emotions. Before they would overtake me, but I can now let bits out for short periods of time without dissociating or having a panic attacks. Sometimes I still have the panic attacks, but not all times, so this is success.

I also talked to her about the looming relevance of the death date itself and how I would like to learn how to think differently about it. I want to honor my sister, but I don't want to feel like I'm preparing for a nuclear bomb. The fact is that I think it's going to be like it was, but it can never be like that again because that night already happened. I can make peace with it and slowly let it go now. There is no purpose for me to harbor some of those memories as closely as I do.

Even the date. If I really wanted to, I could honor her on December 8th instead of the 9th. I can do whatever I want. What an enormous relief that is. Don't know if I'll do that, but I could if I wanted to.

It is a day and it will see the sun rise and it will see the sun fall. And then that day will pass and another one will come.

I think this is kind of what you might have been getting at previously, comfortzone?

Anyway, just random thoughts.

 

[healthbound]

And another thing. I'm mad. I don't recall feeling disappointed about her death in the past because I always felt I understood exactly why she did it. But I feel very disappointed now.

 

[healthbound]

If you haven't read it yet, see Grief and Bereavement in Accidental or Sudden Death -- especially the parts on legacy. I think that's the key.

I just read this, db. Thank you very much for posting this link, I found it very helpful and validating. I also didn't realize that you had experienced sudden loss and reading about your experiences helped me feel less alone in mine. I KNOW others go through loss, but I don't KNOW them.

Do you still feel overwhelmingly sad sometimes?

 

[David Baxter PhD]

Yes. A little less often overwhelmingly so as time goes on, and I can remember a lot more of the positive things about her life - both of them.

You never "get over" losing someone. You just learn how to live with it and how to force it to mean something.

 

[healthbound]

I look forward to remembering more of the positive things about her life (and mine!) after I work through the disturbing ones.


I liked what you wrote about legacy in your article.

I want to somehow positively impact suicide prevention and mental health awareness. lol...One of the positive things I thought could come of my blog was that someone might identify with what I wrote about. Or maybe the blog would help increase awareness of suicide and mental health.

I would also like to use some of my art as a communication vehicle. I'm certainly no Van Gogh, but when I was younger and I discovered his work, I felt like he knew what I was feeling. It would be nice if I could do that for others.

I even researched an idea about promoting artists with mental illness. I actually found a local art gallery that does just that. I e-mailed them and intend on becoming involved with them on some level in the near future.

Suicide is still so taboo yet deaths by suicide are extremely high. I will help positively impact education and awareness somehow in the coming years.

I know I'll never "get over" losing her. But I do hope that someday it gets less overwhelming. She was very important to me and I miss and love her a lot.

Thanks again for posting that link to your article.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

I'm gald it resonated, healthbound. I think your ideas of how to use what happened to you and your sister for a positive purpose are excellent. Good luck...

 

[healthbound]

Thank you. I'll keep ya posted

 

[Eunoia]

I don't know if this interests you at all and it certainly is only a suggestion and one way of making a difference, but what about giving talks at high schools, even campuses? clearly you could do this w/ workplaces too and community centres etc. but I was just thinking of where I 1st got to hear about these kind of issues and how that impacted me and to tell you the truth it was all in high school... we had a lot of speakers come in and talk about drunk driving, sex, drugs, eating disorders, and suicide (as well as others) and as much as it was a nice break from regular classes, I remember a lot of people sitting in the audiences in each one of these talks, being affected one way or the other... some cried, others just listened, some knew too well what the topic was about, others had no idea but left w/ a greater understanding, tools to use as resources, and a more open attitude in general... often, this kind of learning can be underappreciated, but it has the potential to make a huge difference in someone's life, espcially when at such a young age. I don't know, it's just an idea... talks about a topic are usually boring to hs kids but hearing someone's personal story can make all the difference in the world.

 

[healthbound]

Hey Eunoia,

Excellent suggestion. In fact, before my sister died I was working on a Federal Grant doing presentations to high school students. I was "telling my story" about my experiences with dropping out of school, running away from home as well as using drugs and alcohol.

I loved it. It's strange because sometimes I forget about my life before my sister's death. I forget that I had already experienced so much and had also overcome so much at such a young age.

I have never done something as intrinsically rewarding as working with youth. I also spoke at businesses, organizations and associations (like ICBC, MADD, Teachers Union etc). Back then it was more peer to peer as I started doing presentations when I was 17 (at 17 I had finally gone into detox and a live-in treatment center to quit drinking and stop using drugs, but I had been in and out of 12 step programs since I was 15. And actually, after 6 years of being clean and sober, when my sister died, I started drinking again). I was able to provide my peers with a "real" story about where drugs, alcohol and dropping out could take you. The presentations seemed very effective as I always had tons of questions, letters and invitations to come back. One guy even confided in me that he was suicidal. As far as I know, he didn't end up doing it.

I felt that I couldn't go back and do presentations after my sister died for a number of reasons, but I hadn't really thought about going back to do them about different issues (however along the same lines) now.

Very interesting. I will think about that. I like that it would create awareness at the age when lots of these issues come up or are about to come up. Also, the topics themselves are interesting to youth and because I have personal experience with suicide, depression and living with a parent who had periods of psychosis - it makes sense. I'm not a doctor or a psychiatrist...but, I definitely have lots of experience in these areas!

Hm..lots to think about. I'm not ready quite yet (I'd just get up there and either dissociate or start crying! ), but definitely something to think about.

Thanks!

 

[healthbound]

Hi Everyone. I took a much needed "break" after my sister's death date (a week ago today).

December 9th came and went and no nuclear bomb went off and I lived. I decided to visit her grave on the Wednesday before because I felt like it. I thought this was good because I usually put so much emphasis on the actual death date. I am trying to remember that it is just a calendar date and I can remember her or visit her any time I want.

This year I learned how to feel sad and even angry about her death. I learned that I could feel my sadness for 5 to 10 minutes at a time and then I can go back to doing whatever I was doing. I learned that feeling sad was better than being anxious or panicked because it allowed me to direct more energy towards remembering her instead of only focusing on a scary date. It also allowed me to realize how sad and lonely I am sometimes.

Hm. I'm finding this post a bit difficult to write. I feel disconnected and confused. I think I was so relieved that the day passed and I didn't die, go into shock or re-experience what I did 12 years ago that I disconnected as soon as I could??

I don't know. Or maybe it wasn't as difficult to stay disconnected after the date had passed - so I went back to "normal".

Or maybe I AM just normal and this is normal. One thing's clear...I'm back to over-analyzing!!

Anyway, I wanted to thank everyone for being so supportive (OK...now I know what it is...I feel sad). I'm very grateful that I had these forums to come to - day or night. I wish I could express how much this has meant, but words don't seem to do much justice so a simple thank you will have to suffice.

Thank you.

 

[ThatLady]

It's thanks enough just to know you've come so far, hon.

 

[healthbound]

Thanks, TL.

I feel like I'm making progress.

...now, if I could just be a bit less self absorbed...lol.