More threads by Retired

foghlaim

Member
So you guys are thinking maybe that guns shouldn't be registered... not tracked if possible after a crime is committed.. I think ye have a better system of knowing who has guns over there than we do here... we have so many unreg'd guns it's unreal.. one can buy one these days from just about anyone in the know round here.

I do agree that most governments spent too much on a lot of things uneccessarily (sp?). when every health area going needs more cash and research funds etc. but law enforcement has to be kept up as well.
 

David Baxter PhD

Late Founder
TSOW said:
The broader question has to do with the current destructive culture delivered to young people through music and video games where destruction and violence is condoned.

There are thousands, millions of young people who play such games and listen to RAP music and have no difficulty whatsoever in distinguishing these things from reality. Inevitably, events like this one will bring outcries against the sale of these media products and that's not going to help one iota, in my opinion.

Years ago, in short span of time, I encountered three young men (no connection between them - just hopsital admissions over about a 3 month period) all of whom had their first psychotic episode while smoking pot and watching the movie of Pink Floyd's The Wall. Should that movie have been banned? How many people watched that movie and did NOT have a psychotic break? That's the problem with the logic of blame in the aftermath of an event like this.
 

Retired

Member
So you guys are thinking maybe that guns shouldn't be registered

This guy did not say that:) I said the system is inefficient.

I don't have an opinion on whether gun should be registered, because I don't believe there is an answer to that problem. Too much politics, lobbying and big business interests involved to ever make anything feasible. IMO
 

just mary

Member
The gun registry is all politics and perception. My husband received a cheque in the mail about two or three months ago, refunding the money he spent registering his guns. :huh: It's so stupid, it's all a big game - how does the public perceive you.

But back to the original topic. It was a horrible thing and I really doubt if we'll ever understand it. My heart goes out to those students, teachers and their families - what a horrific experience. It's so senseless.

What I find disturbing now is the television media. I caught the start of the news last night, and I say "start" since I didn't watch the end, but it was just awful. It was so sensationalized, it made me ill. They had a big title, in bold, red fonts - it's hard to explain but I'm sure you all understand. It made me angry and it made me sad. I felt a little hopeless about everything.

As to the killer himself, he was 25 years old, and it was understandable that his parents didn't know much even if they were talking to him. But after an event like this - would you expect the parents to be completely forthright about their family situation? I can't even begin to imagine what they're going through.

jm
 

David Baxter PhD

Late Founder
nsa said:
So you guys are thinking maybe that guns shouldn't be registered... not tracked if possible after a crime is committed.. I think ye have a better system of knowing who has guns over there than we do here... we have so many unreg'd guns it's unreal.. one can buy one these days from just about anyone in the know round here.
So does Canada. The majority of criminals are not going to legally acquire and register the weapons they intend to use to commit crimes - they hope to get away with the crimes they commit and therefore use illegal or stolen weapons. Indeed, most of them probably already have criminal records which would prohibit them from owning weapons.

The notion of a gun registry is misguided. In most cases, all you are doing is harrassing hunters and farmers. You are certainly not doing anything at all to limit the spread of illegal weapons or to deter criminal acts.
 

Retired

Member
There are thousands, millions of young people who play such games and listen to RAP music and have no difficulty whatsoever in distinguishing these things from reality

It's the same argument used by gun lobbyists, that guns don't kill people, but people kill people.

I am not for censorship nor for any type of extraordinary controls, but I am suggesting there is an overriding culture of destruction.

The goal of video games is to kill the other guy, some rap music promotes hate and violence, music videos depict scenes of destruction of property.

My concern is that people begin thinking that hate, violence, domination and killing are the way to resolve disagreement.
 

just mary

Member
Where are the guns coming from then? Are they being smuggled across the border from the U.S.? Are they being stolen from peoples homes? The problem is that guns take awhile to deteriorate - they are built to last. We'll never get rid of them. Law enforcement agencies in Canada actually supported the gun registry - it did have some positives - it was just so ridiculously expensive.

And I agree with TSOW:

"My concern is that people begin thinking that hate, violence, domination and killing are the way to resolve disagreement."

Our culture just seems to be getting more and more violent - even if they say that crime is trending downwards. Statistics can be misleading.
 

David Baxter PhD

Late Founder
As a child, I loved cowboy movies and I loved playing cowboys and pretending to shoot people. I owned several cap gun and holster sets and cowboy hats, etc., and those were some of my favorite possessions.

As a teen and an adult, I've never even owned or wanted to own a pellet gun or BB gun, let alone a real weapon. I've never even fired a real weapon and have no desire to do so.

I don't believe that movies, games, or music desensitize people to violence unless they are already predisposed to such desensitization. I'm sure that some people with a predisposition to violence do indeed seek out such games or movies or music but I also think that is more effect than cause.

When my children were young, my first wife insisted that they should not be allowed to play games involving toy weapons. For a while, I capitulated. Inevitably, my sons found twigs, branches, empty paper towel or toilet roll tibes, or a variety of other objects which they turned into "guns" and "swords" and played games similar to the ones I played at that age.

None of them even hunt. None of them have any interest in real weapons (other than one who collects Lord of the Rings swords). None of them are violent.
 

David Baxter PhD

Late Founder
just mary said:
Our culture just seems to be getting more and more violent - even if they say that crime is trending downwards. Statistics can be misleading.
Yes they can be. But nonetheless, whatever staitsics you look at, or however you slice and dice them, the downward trend for violent crime in Canada is evident and clear.

The apparent increase in violence is I think largely due to the kind of detailed and widespread media coverage that you were discussing above.
 

just mary

Member
I understand what you're saying Dr. Baxter. I have two older brothers, they both played with guns and played "war" as children - I think it was modelled after the TV series "Combat". One turned into a hunter and the other had no interest what so ever. Go figure.

And I feel kind of silly posting on this topic since I have a bazooka in my avatar. :)

jm.
 

just mary

Member
Yes they can be. But nonetheless, whatever staitsics you look at, or however you slice and dice them, the downward trend for violent crime in Canada is evident and clear.

The apparent increase in violence is I think largely due to the kind of detailed and widespread media coverage that you were discussing above.

I agree somewhat, the media can definitely sensationalize things and instill fear in people. But I don't want to ignore it either and just assume the local TV station is looking for ratings.

I seem to hear more and more about violence in schools. Our neighbours across the street had their house vandalized because one of their kids made another kid angry. And I've been hearing a lot of these stories lately. And I know it's anecdotal but something just feels different. Or maybe I'm just getting old. It just seems like an angrier, greedier world.
 

just mary

Member
And Bazooka Beavers are on the increase! :panic: :D

:D

Pretty soon we'll have our own nation!!! We've already decided on a name - "Banada". It will be just north of the USA. Our national sport will be cutting down trees, how fast and how many!!! Oh, I can hardly wait!!! And the damns, we'll be a nation of damns - branches and twigs everywhere and for everyone!!! I'm going to be the Big Kahuna of Banada!!!
 

Halo

Member
Wow I really feel like I have so many things to say on this topic. It really has grown from the Montreal School Shootings. First of all I have to say that for me personally the whole story about the victims and the shooter and for some strange reason I am more drawn toward feeling sad or sympathy for the shooter and his family. I guess it is probably because I can relate to parts of what I read that he wrote in his blog.

Secondly, the issue of the gun registry was the worst idea I think that the government ever came up with. Yes law abiding citizens are going to register their guns but criminals or potential criminals are not so does the gun registry really work, no. All it does is tell the government who has guns that are suppose to have them. It doesn't tell them how many guns are running around this country on the blackmarket. People don't realize how easy it is to get a blackmarket gun in this country. I can tell you that it is much easier than getting help from a mental health care professional. Just my opinion of course.

I have so much more to say but dont want to make this post too long.
 

Halo

Member
JM

I love your Bazooka Beaver...he is just adorable. Please don't take him down on account of this. Everytime I log on and see him it makes me smile :D
 

Halo

Member
I don't think that rap music, tv or movies have much to do with whether a person is going to be influenced to be violent or not maybe unless they are highly influenced but I know personally for me I was into a lot of rap music, extreme violent movies when I was a teenager and yes I was violent and at times carried a gun but it was as a result of the lifestyle that I lead and the people that I was involved with at the time. I also think that it had to do with the feeling of power. I felt powerful on the outside being tough, feared by people etc. when really on the inside I was scared as hell and confused and lost just wanting to run to safety.

So basically I think that a lot of people put more emphasis on rap music, tv and movies because they are looking at someone to blame for the violence. No one wants to think that anyone chooses to be that violent and therefore looks to another source to be the scapegoat for the cause.

Again just my opinion.
 

just mary

Member
So basically I think that a lot of people put more emphasis on rap music, tv and movies because they are looking at someone to blame for the violence. No one wants to think that anyone chooses to be that violent and therefore looks to another source to be the scapegoat for the cause.

That's a good point Nancy. I could say so much on this topic also. I think it's because it affects us all.

One idea that has popped into my head after reading this thread is why there is so much violence in our entertainment and it just seems to be getting worse. I mentioned the series Combat in an earlier post. I watched an old episode just recently. It was so tame compared to today's standards. I'm thinking of some the TV series we see today and all their graphic depictions of violence and death.
 

Halo

Member
I think that you raise a good point there JM. I too watch some of the old shows and see everything from their graphical effects to their violence and realize that times have really changed. I do believe that tv shows and movies are having to make things more and more violent in order to capture the attention of the younger generation today. If the level of violence is not what is expected than they just won't watch and then ratings will be down and well the list goes on and on..... Same goes for video games...it is all about turning a profit and violence and sex sells in our society......unfortunately.
 

Retired

Member
I loved cowboy movies and I loved playing cowboys and pretending to shoot people. I owned several cap gun and holster sets and cowboy hats, etc., and those were some of my favorite possessions

Me too! However our games were inspired by the western movies that were played on Saturday mornings, Roy Rogers and Hopalong Cassidy.

There were no graphic depictions of death, blood splatters and violence beyond hoaky fights where you could see the fake punches.

Now with computer enhanced graphics we see human beings blown up, dismembered and brutally killed.

Death is depicted as just another normal state of amusement.

I tend to agree that children will play games of war, cops and robbers etc as a way to learn how the world of conflict and good vs evil functions.

However it is my perception that the various media have desensitized us from the horrors of death and violence.
 

David Baxter PhD

Late Founder
However it is my perception that the various media have desensitized us from the horrors of death and violence.
There may be an element of truth in that but I wonder again about whether that is just desensitizing us to violence in movies rather than violence in real life.

I still enjoy watching movies like the Diehard series with Bruce Willis. But in the past few years, I have also encountered/witnessed violence or death in real life (or in the news, as with 9-11 and recent shootings like the Montreal incidents). I don't think my exposure to violence TV or movies has altered/decreased my reaction to real life violence or tragedy one iota.

It's one thing to watch someone die or be killed in a movie. It's quite another to look into the eyes of a young man dying on the road after a motorcycle accident, as I did last year. Movies don't desensitize you to that at all.
 
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