My daughter has withdrawn herself from school because bullying and harassment

[Darkside]

I need some advice or just feedback.

My daughter will be 18 in November and is a senior in high school. She has complained about excessive bullying, teasing and harassment at school since the 10th grade. It died down at the end of last year and I had not heard much about it until this past Monday.

She is not a petite girl. She is 5'9" and by all accounts (mainly her brothers) she can handle herself. However, she called me last night in hysterics (I couldn't understand what she was saying because she was crying so hard) saying that the bullying, harassment and teasing has picked up again. After talking with her for a few minutes she was able to tell me that someone had started a rumor that she tried to kill herself (which is true) and that she is a lesbian. She says she has no friends and no one to talk to at school. That if she speaks in class the students start laughing and teasing her and even the teachers make fun of her. She says it is so bad that she goes to class, finishes her work and then goes home. She doesn't talk on the phone to anyone and she doesn't hang out like other teenagers. (She claims it is because of drugs, alcohol and sex.) I did my best to counsel her, but in her hysteria she makes some outlandish claims such as everybody hates her, she has no friends and people are constantly teasing her and ridiculing her and talking about her.

Her mother has now taken her out of school and will let her finish high school online - a sort of homebound program. But she can't participate in any social activities and she can't graduate with her class.

I see a problem here. First of all, the statements that "nobody likes her" and that "she doesn't have any friends" tell me that some of the problem is with her. From what I can tell her mother does not let her "hang out" with other students, go to parties and friend's homes or participate in other teenage activities. She spends her weekends either doing beauty pageants (which means out of town) or visiting me so she can see her boyfriend. (which also means out of town)

I'm all for doing my best to keep teenagers from getting into trouble and becoming involved in sex and using drugs, but it seems to me her mother (my ex-wife) has forced her to live in a convent. Late in her sophomore year (age 16) she went to a party at a friend's house when her parents were out of town. There was some trouble about it (no police - just the parents found out) and my ex-wife put her on restrictions for a month. After that, to my knowledge, she has not participated in any social activities. So I am thinking that the other kids think of her as "not social" with them and so they tease and are maybe even cruel to her.

My own view is that if she doesn't experience the social side of school and only attends M-F that the other kids are going to feel that she is an outsider. She, in turn, perceives this as "having no friends."

I'm not a fan of taking her out of school. I think my ex-wife is ruining her by over-protecting her and preventing her from being a teenager. But then again, I dislike my ex-wife so that may be clouding my judgment. It just seems like she can be social and still have principles - she can still say "no."

I don't know if this has a name, but her hysteria (breaking down into sobbing, screaming, and spells of anger) really worry me.

Am I misreading this? Could the harassment really be that bad? Could she really not have any friends?

 

[forgetmenot]

Bullying can be so detrimental to a teen and yes it can be that bad. The pain felt is horrific when you are trying so hard to fit in but the bullies do anything they can to break you down. I would talk to the teacher and and the Principal together with your daughter if you can. Perhaps letting her home school is not so bad she won' t have to be fearful of going to school then i don't know. Is there not another school she could transfer too She is adult now and will be moving on to college next year tell her that and tell her the ones that abuse her will also be moving on to other schools so it will end soon the bullying.
You daughter should be able to make the choices now to either to talk with principal or to homeschool the important thing is to finish her grade so she can move on away from them all.

 

[MHealthJo]

I remember you talking some time ago Darkside about something to do with .... she was worried about trying to fit in with the judgmental, superficial, popularity-conscious people... ? I hope I'm not getting it wrong.

My experience / understanding is that there will always be those types,l at school, and anyone who does not mold themselves to fit with them will be rejected and will not be treated that well by them. They simply don't treat anyone well, except their own group. (And only to their face, anyway.)

But also they sometimes specifically find someone who wishes to fit in with them a bit too hard, and who wants to but doesn't *quite*, in their view - and they do often enjoy targeting that person in a negative way.

I do think also that some of the concerns about teenage behaviour, do tend to happen a lot with those groups.

What I find sad is that quite often there are a few more decent and down to earth people to spend time with, but someone who is overly concerned about the 'popular group' won't choose them. Instead they will go after the 'popular crowd' and eventually get burned by them. Sometimes they have also engaged in certain behaviours to try to get into the 'popular crowd', and the nicer down-to-earth people may have long memories even later on, when someone decides to open their mind to better and less superficial ideas of friendship.

I wonder if any of this would sound familiar to her?

Could this be a time when, since these issues have returned, she may have her mind more open to increasing her self esteem, working on boundaries with her mother, working on her genuine authentic self and on positive behaviour that will attract genuine, decent people....and on trying to learn about what to really look for and value in the self and in others? Could this be a time when she might read some well-chosen books or resources or something?

I'm sorry you have to see her feeling bad Darkside and I'm glad she has you.

 

[Darkside]

She doesn't want me to intervene or do anything. She just wants to leave the school. She's pretty adamant, but I think it if were me and my parent did not at least try to help later on I would wonder just how much my dad (or mom) loved me.

I think MHealthJo is right. This crowd has singled out my daughter because she so much wants to fit in. However, I also think that my ex-wife has put her in a position where these kids see her as "too good for them" because she is kept at home or because she leaves town every weekend. To fit in socially you have to be available socially. That said, I don't want her involved with drugs, alcohol and promiscuous sex.

But I also don't want this to hurt her chances at college. She is conflicted (and in pain) because none of the choices are what she wants. They are all bad. If she stays at home she won't be allowed to participate in senior events including graduation. She will be even more isolated. There are no schools she can transfer to because she lives in a very small community. Right now, going back to school is just too painful for her.

That's just sad and it grieves me almost beyond what I can endure.

I did call the school today and spoke with an Ass't Principal. They are going to schedule a conference but they could not tell me when. It is a 3 hour drive so I asked them to give me some notice. I'm sure my ex-wife won't want me there, but I will go anyway. This is just too important - and potentially life changing for my daughter.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

Homeschooling isn't necessarily a bad option for your daughter and there's no reason it should adversely affect her post-secondary career. In this instance, parental protection and support probably trumps trying to pressure or force her into returning to a toxic school environment to just tough it out. Additionally, from your description I would suggest that she is not missing out on any social life since the only social interactions she's experiencing currently are negative and alienating and likely to further erode any self-esteem she has left. I would recommend that you try to make it very clear to your daughter that you support her in whatever decision she makes and that you stop allowing your negative perceptions of your wife to further adversely affect your relationship with your daughter.


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[MHealthJo]

Whatever happens, it will probably mean a lot to your daughter later on (probably now too) that you were willing to talk honestly about things, encourage openminded thinking about various options, talk to the school, etc.

Try to have conversations with her about how life will bring these situations - how there will be people who are best avoided, as well as good people to seek out and value. .....How the real solution (and prevention) of problems and pain like this, is genuine self-esteem coming from within, rather than approval / acceptance / what happens with others.... How it frees a person from being affected much by the opinions (and most behaviours) of people who in reality are not worth caring about, and how it tends to prevent a person from being targeted negatively too much.

Assure her with confidence that the right resources and support can provide this, and that it will open up good opportunities, experiences and connections, and more reliable feelings of happiness and security for her....

It's a shame that a benefit and change in thinking may not be fast enough for her to want to finish her year at school anyway, though. Really sorry that she's having these tough times Darkside.

 

[Darkside]

Homeschooling isn't necessarily a bad option for your daughter and there's no reason it should adversely affect her post-secondary career. In this instance, parental protection and support probably trumps trying to pressure or force her into returning to a toxic school environment to just tough it out. Additionally, from your description I would suggest that she is not missing out on any social life since the only social interactions she's experiencing currently are negative and alienating and likely to further erode any self-esteem she has left. I would recommend that you try to make it very clear to your daughter that you support her in whatever decision she makes

I was with you up to here.

and that you stop allowing your negative perceptions of your wife to further adversely affect your relationship with your daughter.

I'm inferring from this that you believe, based on my two posts above, that my relationship with my daughter was previously adversely affected and that in this situation I have "further adversely affected" that relationship. Can you tell me how you know this?

What keeps me up at night is my anxiety that the problem is at home. Or, that what is happening at home is making coping at school more difficult.

Also, as I stated in my second post, last night she was terribly conflicted about what to do. When I asked her she replied, in hysterics, "I don't know what to do." She didn't like any of the choices. In that situation it seemed like going back to school and finishing wasn't a bad choice.

She also spoke in absolute terms like "never, none, ever, and all". Those kinds of words cause me to suspect she is exaggerating.

Are those legitimate concerns or am I way off the mark. (It no longer surprises me to discover I am wrong.)

 

[David Baxter PhD]

I might be mistaken or confusing you with someone else but I was under the impression that you thought your ex-wife had engaged in various behaviors that to some extent negatively affected your relationship with your daughter. Was that not you?

 

[MHealthJo]

I'm a little confused.... In my memory of Darkside's story, his ex-wife genuinely has some pretty big problems / behaviours that do affect / have affected his daughter, and this very likely does cause impacts on his daughter's relating to other people, and to my understanding that would probably include Darkside, too ... ? (Not disagreeing with the advice, and not knowledgeable on exactly how Darkside should put his boundaries down around his ex-wife relationship vs daughter relationship. Just adding in where I'm at with the story, in case that helps. )

 

[David Baxter PhD]

My original comment was based on two factors or assumptions:

1. that I don't think homeschooling is necessarily a bad option for someone who is being bullied or harrassed at school because the reality is that despite the best efforts of school staff and parents bullying is very difficult to stop once it has begun; and

2. that I thought Darkside had indicated that his ex-wife's influence was eroding his relationship with his daughter, and was worried that he might be opposing homeschooling in part because his ex-wife seemed to be supporting it.

 

[Darkside]

I might be mistaken or confusing you with someone else but I was under the impression that you thought your ex-wife had engaged in various behaviors that to some extent negatively affected your relationship with your daughter. Was that not you?

She has tried to affect my relationship with my children, but to my knowledge my feelings towards my ex-wife have not adversely affected my relationship with my daughter. I am careful not speak negatively about her mother in her presence.

What I do is work on my relationship with my children with my children. I rarely, if ever, communicate to my children through my wife. She tries to interject herself between us, but I just pick up the phone and call them.

---------- Post Merged at 10:20 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 10:00 PM ----------

My original comment was based on two factors or assumptions:

1. that I don't think homeschooling is necessarily a bad option for someone who is being bullied or harrassed at school because the reality is that despite the best efforts of school staff and parents bullying is very difficult to stop once it has begun; and

I don't think homeschooling is a bad thing if the problem really is bullying and harassment at school. I just wasn't sure.

2. that I thought Darkside had indicated that his ex-wife's influence was eroding his relationship with his daughter, and was worried that he might be opposing homeschooling in part because his ex-wife seemed to be supporting it.

Okay, I see what you mean. The first time I spoke to her she was conflicted about what to do. And you are correct, I did oppose it; but not because my ex-wife was in favor of it. I opposed it because I didn't know what was going on and my daughter was so upset she couldn't tell me. All I knew at the time was that she didn't want to go back to school because of bullying and harassment on Monday which I thought was an over-reaction. This same thing happened this time last year and in a few weeks it died down and she finished the fall semester and the spring semester and never once complained. I thought this might blow over again and taking her out of school was an over-reaction.

But bullying and harassment between high school girls in 2014 is far different than what it was in 1972. That's why I posted this ... to see what people thought.

 

[heatherly]

I really support home schooling too. I know of a lot of children that have been homeschooled and it was worked to their benefit. After all it is only a year. I was made fun of in high school, but not like what your daughter went through. I still recall the things said to me, perhaps not all, but the worse. I am shocked that the teachers are not doing anything to stop this behavior. Perhaps once your daughter is out of school and has moved away, she will be around people who are more grown up, as in, have gotten over the need to bully.

 

[Darkside]

I really support home schooling too. I know of a lot of children that have been homeschooled and it was worked to their benefit. After all it is only a year. I was made fun of in high school, but not like what your daughter went through. I still recall the things said to me, perhaps not all, but the worse. I am shocked that the teachers are not doing anything to stop this behavior. Perhaps once your daughter is out of school and has moved away, she will be around people who are more grown up, as in, have gotten over the need to bully.

I'm not certain, but I suspect that there is very little of this in college. I wish there was an answer to why it happens so much in the 10th-12th grade. Boys don't do it as much as girls. (At least my boys didn't complain about it that much.)

Is it lack of discipline at school, absent and uncaring parents, societal pressure to compete ... ??

 

[David Baxter PhD]

It's adolescence. Everyone is trying to fit in and everyone feels insecure. They make themselves feel better by forming into groups which make fun of others not in the group to feel better about themselves.

Google social comparison theory.


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[Darkside]

It's adolescence. Everyone is trying to fit in and everyone feels insecure. They make themselves feel better by forming into groups which make fun of others not in the group to feel better about themselves.

Google social comparison theory.


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When I was that age we formed groups but we didn't ridicule or harass the people who were not in the group. We stuck together and excluded others we didn't think belonged, but we never openly made fun of them like the kids do now. She told me that she was called on in class to answer a question and that when she started answering the question several students openly mocked her in the class. Even the teacher laughed which totally humiliated her.

That's what I don't get. Teachers joining in the mocking and teasing in the classroom instead of correcting the offending student.

 

[forgetmenot]

Principal should be made aware of the teachers action and teacher should be confronted about it with your daughter present

 

[heatherly]

Darkside,

I went to school in the 50s, and kids mocked other kids in front of the teacher. Don't recall the teacher saying anything either. I just quit a group at church that was supposed to be open-minded, and yet the atheists mock the believers there, and if anyone says anything that anything thinks is stupid, they do the same. These are old adults who never grew up.

 

[Darkside]

Darkside,

I went to school in the 50s, and kids mocked other kids in front of the teacher. Don't recall the teacher saying anything either. I just quit a group at church that was supposed to be open-minded, and yet the atheists mock the believers there, and if anyone says anything that anything thinks is stupid, they do the same. These are old adults who never grew up.

Atheists in your church group?

Hard to believe that adults would do that, but I suppose it makes them feel better about themselves somehow.

---------- Post Merged at 09:29 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 03:38 PM ----------

Principal should be made aware of the teachers action and teacher should be confronted about it with your daughter present

I can't be sure (because I don't believe much of what my ex-wife says) but I was told that the Principal knows that a teacher made fun of my daughter but did nothing.

 

[Darkside]

I don't know what this means, but just like last year this has now blown over and my daughter has gone back to her school. She stayed on homebound for about 10 days. But she has missed so much class it has affected her grades and possibly her ability to get into the college she really wants to attend. I really hurt for her and I don't think the school has done much to help.

 

[forgetmenot]

Here the college has courses that a person can take to upgrade themselves so they can get into any college they wish Perhaps you daughter can take these courses first at the college she chooses then move on to her chose of career Get her to look into that ok