My ongoing therapy dilemma

[gooblax]

That's what I meant earlier when I said he should know what he can manage and what he can't. You should trust him to evaluate his capabilities and to reschedule or cut a session short if the surgery is making things difficult for him.

Your comparison to broken wrists is really not comparable at all.

I guess what it comes down to is that I don't feel good about bringing my 'stuff' to him when he obviously has an issue of his own to deal with.

 

[gooblax]

Arguably, therapy is a more detached experience than it was 30+ years ago:



It's not just fewer hugs or handshakes but fewer opportunities for phone calls between sessions, etc. At least in my experience, medical doctors are far more likely to offer to shake your hand than therapists/psychologists.

My psych seems to be a little bit open to some of this stuff eg. he offered a handshake at my 1st in-person session, he was the one to suggest meeting at a cafe for a session when his office was closed, he would've done a 'suit shopping exposure therapy' session with me at the shops if that had been possible and was something I'd have been comfortable with (which it wouldn't have been).

So maybe it would be on the cards in some circumstances. But at this stage it's just a thought, not something I'm going to ask about and not something I've even decided would be helpful to know.

 

[Daniel E.]

he obviously has an issue of his own to deal with.

What is obvious to me is that your overconcern or hyper-responsibility isn't helpful (to you or your therapist). But you likely have "metacognitive beliefs" that ruminating (a.k.a. overthinking) is a good way to prevent harm to self/others, e.g. "I'd rather anticipate that than be 'surprised' on the day."

In other words, since your overthinking concerns others and questions of ethics/morality, the result is a halo effect that makes it seem more important/healthy than it is -- like eating a fried chicken sandwich that seems healthy because it is served with lettuce and tomatoes.

Also, to me, ruminating is in some ways like a gambling problem. With gambling, there are winnings/rewards but at what cost? Personally, I don't think it would be possible for me to stop ruminating. The goal is to limit it so that there is more time for something else. So the goal is to be "California sober" Like leaving the ruminating to "positive compulsions" like thinking about a project or picking out the best items for Black Friday

BTW, substituting the term rumination for gambling:

Compulsive Gambling

Compulsive gambling By Mayo Clinic Staff Jan. 20, 2009 Compulsive gambling is the uncontrollable urge to keep gambling despite the toll it takes on your life. If you're prone to compulsive gambling, you may continually chase bets, may lie or hide your behavior, and may resort to theft or...

forum.psychlinks.ca

Coping and support
The appeal of gambling ruminating is hard to overcome if you keep thinking that you'll win next time....

Give yourself permission to ask for help, as part of realizing that sheer will power isn't enough to overcome compulsive gambling ruminating.

Stay focused on your No. 1 goal: Not to gamble ruminate. Coping skills to better manage the other issues in your life can only be initiated when you aren't gambling ruminating.

Recognize and then avoid situations that trigger your urge to bet ruminate.

 

[gooblax]

I don't really see it as ruminating being a good way to avoid/prevent harm.

I see it like:
1) I feel concerned / worried about a thing or have thoughts about the thing.
2) I think that the way to relieve that concern is to do something I don't actually want to do, or something that will upset/hurt me somehow.
3) I get stuck between a lose-lose situation where either choice causes harm, one maybe to someone else or the other directly to me. This can be complicated by thoughts that I deserve to be harmed. Because I can't bring myself to pick option 2, I'm stuck and unable to take the action that would resolve the promblem.
4) Maybe I express my dilemma to someone and they say that the initiating concerns are unfounded. But they don't seem unfounded, so I stay stuck.

 

[Daniel E.]

Classic OCD: "I think that the way to relieve that concern is to do something."

OCD cycle: Unwanted private mental events, a.k.a. intrusive thoughts (e.g. thoughts of self or others being harmed) [this is common/"normal"] --> Taking it seriously (due to thought-action fusion, etc.) [this is where the OCD/pathology starts] --> Unwanted feeling(s) (doubt, guilt, anxiety, shame, emptiness, disgust, loneliness, etc) [fueled by lack of acceptance] --> Compulsion(s) to relieve the unwanted feeling, e.g. avoidance behavior, reassurance seeking, rumination, or overt behavior (e.g. checking or handwashing) [maladaptive coping]--> Short term relief --> Cycle repeats

A saying from ACT is a good test for OCD content: "If you don't want it, you've got it."

 

[gooblax]

Classic OCD: "I think that the way to relieve that concern is to do something."

Disagreed. That's the whole biological function behind having concerns - so you'll identify the problem and fix it.

OCD cycle: Unwanted private mental events, a.k.a. intrusive thoughts (e.g. thoughts of self or others being harmed) [this is common/"normal"] --> Taking it seriously (due to thought-action fusion, etc.) [this is where the OCD/pathology starts] --> Unwanted feeling(s) (doubt, guilt, anxiety, shame, or disgust, etc) [fueled by lack of acceptance] --> Compulsion(s) to relieve the unwanted feeling, e.g. avoidance behavior, reassurance seeking, rumination, or overt behavior (e.g. checking or handwashing) [maladaptive coping]--> Short term relief --> Cycle repeats

A saying from ACT is a good test for OCD content: "If you don't want it, you've got it."

Since you and David can't seem to get past the idea that I don't have OCD I don't know what else to say at this point.

Maybe I do take certain concerns more seriously than other people might and would benefit from letting them go, so I'll grant that much.

 

[Daniel E.]

Disagreed. That's the whole biological function behind having concerns - so you'll identify the problem and fix it.

Your concerns in this context are more like fake news -- noise from the brain that you are not able to ignore. That's why you have doubts about them. That's why you are stuck/torn and can't let go. Real problems have real solutions, even if the solution is just acceptance or "wait and see." Your "concerns" are like a never-ending maze.

What I didn't do is what a lot of therapists do -- talk about potential secondary gains (as in looking at ulterior motives -- e.g. What do you get out of trying to "baby" your therapist?). That to me is insulting and a waste of time (but helps the therapist/accuser feel better about themselves). I hate when therapists do that to me -- instead of talking about something remotely scientific or solution-focused.

Maybe I do take certain concerns more seriously than other people might and would benefit from letting them go, so I'll grant that much.

We all have blind spots, with or without a mental disorder:

Volume 30 Issue 1 - Insight across mental disorders: A multifaceted metacognitive phenomenon

Ιστοσελίδα Περιοδικού Ψυχιατρική

www.psychiatriki-journal.gr

Insight impairments are observed in many, if not all, mental disorders.

In any case, it may help you to re-read some of this thread and find patterns in your posts. Even in your first post, you mention "semi-obsessive thoughts." My attempt was here: My ongoing therapy dilemma

I wish you well. I was getting ready to leave the forum, which is why I am more frank than usual. Goodbye.

 

[gooblax]

Ok, I won't post about this anymore. Thanks for your help and persistence Daniel.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

I guess what it comes down to is that I don't feel good about bringing my 'stuff' to him when he obviously has an issue of his own to deal with.

I've often said that, especially at times of personal stress, helping other people was a welcome distraction from my own issues.

 

[Daniel E.]

Ok, I won't post about this anymore. Thanks for your help and persistence Daniel.

Please ignore my latest mental "reset."

I came across this gold nugget today (when searching for something else):

My only thought is that sometimes emotions and reactions don't need to be questioned - they just are. In the past I spent a lot of time over-analysing my feelings, but it turned out that it was more helpful for me to just identify the broad category of the feeling and then do something else.