cwilliams1591
Member
I hope this drug becomes illegalized. There's way too many stories of people going into the ER and going crazy from this drug
- Thread starter David Baxter PhD
- Start date
David Baxter PhD
Late Founder
So do I. It is already illegal in Europe and there are proposed amendments to drug laws to make it illegal in Australia and many states in the US. I'm not sure what Canada is doing about it yet, though.
cwilliams1591
Member
The US has a maybe 9 states that have it illegalized. I am from Texas and I know anyone can walk to a gas station or smoke shop and purchase the various types of synthetic marijuana
cwilliams, i am experiencing the exact same things a month and a half after one use. i often have thoughts about not actually existing, or being in a different world. i feel like i am tripping periodically, and my eyes appear to be glossy. my panic attacks only occurred during the first week after first use, but i still experience other anxiety symptoms. i have a psych appointment at the end of the month, and i have been to a doctor and an eye doctor; no one seems to understand that i haven't had these problems prior to first time use of synthetic. i can't sleep, and i see what seems to be a glow around lights, along with double vision to certain things such as white words on a dark background.
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This article was my first find when researching this topic. It led me to investigate further and has led me to believe that this is exactly the source of my daughter's issues.
She is 19 yrs old and currently admitted to our local hospital's psychiatric unit. I have questioned several of her friends and determined that she had been using it for about 2 months and had been developing symptoms which she was hiding from us. Symptoms which included hearing voices, talking to herself and stating that the TV or radio were talking to her. She finally brought it out into the open with us 2 weeks ago at which time I immediately took her for a psychiatric assessment. They did not feel that she was a risk to herself or others and therefore did not warrant admission to a facility.
Over the next couple of days her condition deteriorated. The symptoms she manifested were paranoid delusions, auditory hallucinations, anxiety, agitation, insomnia, severely decreased appetite with significant weight loss, and loss of interest in everything she had previously shown interest in. She was not sleeping, not eating and becoming increasingly agitated and anxious. We went to ER but still did not admit her, they gave her Ativan by mouth and sent us home. She was still not on any routine medications at this time. She slept some after the Ativan but the following night woke me at 2:30am begging me to erase her mind stating that she couldn't take it anymore. I tried to get her to go to the hospital but she kept stating she could not go because they would never let her leave and she go crazy.
I called the original assessing facility and explained the situation. They were able to get her admitted immediately to the crisis center, an inpatient treatment facility for drugs, alcohol and mental health. While these people were wonderful initially, I don't believe they were fully equipped to deal with the situation either. She was there for 3 days and eventually say a nurse practitioner after 2 days. She was started on Riserdal 0.5mg at bedtime and Vistaril as needed. She initially would not take the Vistaril and they didn't inform me of this. I encouraged her to take it to help calm her. She was still not sleeping or eating, just lying in bed most of the time. The night of her 3rd day she called me again at 2:30 in the morning stating to me, "You know the man that's been after me? Well he has me now. He knows our address and where we live. He's threatening to hurt you and daddy. He's threatening to kill the dogs."
All she would tell me was that the things he was saying were disgusting. She started to speak to him with me on the phone and called him a sick "f***". I immediately called the facility and they assured me they would take care of her. By 8:30 that morning she was transferred to the ER. When we arrived she was much calmer but all she would say was that he was disgusting, a pedophile, and wanted to lock her in his basement. Initially the assessor was planning to send her back to the inpatient facility as she wouldn't talk to her and denied any thoughts of hurting herself or others. I explained that this was not normal for her, this had come on recently and she had no psychiatric history.
My daughter has always been slightly anxious and somewhat introverted. She is uncomfortable in new or strange situations but by no means so introverted that she can not function. I always assumed it was normal shyness. She did have some evidence of depression related to life changes: graduation, unsure of what she wanted to do, feeling stuck in the same rut while her friends moved on. Normal things for a kid her age. Anyways, they did admit her to the PICU. The Risperdal was increased to 1mg twice daily, then three times daily and is now receiving 0.5mg in am and 3mg in pm. He also started Celexa about 4 days ago but I am unclear on the dosage.
We were unable to see her for 72 hours but once we were allowed to visit it broke my heart. I expected some sedation but she was very groggy, appeared extremely depressed and would not eat at all. For several days all we were able to get into her were 3 to 4 bites of food at most and some fluids. She kept asking when she would come home. I kept telling her she had to eat and drink, flush her system, and start participating in things. So now she is eating better but not nearly enough. She complains of her stomach frequently either nausea or cramping when she eats. But, she tries to eat for me.
She is now admitting to using the synthetic marijuana on a daily basis for at least the past 2 months. She is cognitively intact for the most part, sometimes forgetful but I am sure that is the medication. She answers questions appropriately but does drift off at times and we can tell when she is inside her head or talking to someone in her head. I continue to remain fearful of a serious mental illness but still can not help but feel that this substance had something to do with this. I have read many articles as well as stories from other parents going through this same thing. There have been several personal accounts of it taking weeks to months for their children to return to normal. Every article I have read listing the symptoms of this drug she has shown except for suicidal ideation. But, then again, I am not certain that she has not had suicidal thoughts just is smart enough to not admit them. My life has stopped at this point as I can think of nothing else and care about nothing else but helping my baby return home and back to normal. All I want is for her to live a life free from torment and the tortures of her own mind. It breaks my heart seeing her suffer so horribly.
She is 19 yrs old and currently admitted to our local hospital's psychiatric unit. I have questioned several of her friends and determined that she had been using it for about 2 months and had been developing symptoms which she was hiding from us. Symptoms which included hearing voices, talking to herself and stating that the TV or radio were talking to her. She finally brought it out into the open with us 2 weeks ago at which time I immediately took her for a psychiatric assessment. They did not feel that she was a risk to herself or others and therefore did not warrant admission to a facility.
Over the next couple of days her condition deteriorated. The symptoms she manifested were paranoid delusions, auditory hallucinations, anxiety, agitation, insomnia, severely decreased appetite with significant weight loss, and loss of interest in everything she had previously shown interest in. She was not sleeping, not eating and becoming increasingly agitated and anxious. We went to ER but still did not admit her, they gave her Ativan by mouth and sent us home. She was still not on any routine medications at this time. She slept some after the Ativan but the following night woke me at 2:30am begging me to erase her mind stating that she couldn't take it anymore. I tried to get her to go to the hospital but she kept stating she could not go because they would never let her leave and she go crazy.
I called the original assessing facility and explained the situation. They were able to get her admitted immediately to the crisis center, an inpatient treatment facility for drugs, alcohol and mental health. While these people were wonderful initially, I don't believe they were fully equipped to deal with the situation either. She was there for 3 days and eventually say a nurse practitioner after 2 days. She was started on Riserdal 0.5mg at bedtime and Vistaril as needed. She initially would not take the Vistaril and they didn't inform me of this. I encouraged her to take it to help calm her. She was still not sleeping or eating, just lying in bed most of the time. The night of her 3rd day she called me again at 2:30 in the morning stating to me, "You know the man that's been after me? Well he has me now. He knows our address and where we live. He's threatening to hurt you and daddy. He's threatening to kill the dogs."
All she would tell me was that the things he was saying were disgusting. She started to speak to him with me on the phone and called him a sick "f***". I immediately called the facility and they assured me they would take care of her. By 8:30 that morning she was transferred to the ER. When we arrived she was much calmer but all she would say was that he was disgusting, a pedophile, and wanted to lock her in his basement. Initially the assessor was planning to send her back to the inpatient facility as she wouldn't talk to her and denied any thoughts of hurting herself or others. I explained that this was not normal for her, this had come on recently and she had no psychiatric history.
My daughter has always been slightly anxious and somewhat introverted. She is uncomfortable in new or strange situations but by no means so introverted that she can not function. I always assumed it was normal shyness. She did have some evidence of depression related to life changes: graduation, unsure of what she wanted to do, feeling stuck in the same rut while her friends moved on. Normal things for a kid her age. Anyways, they did admit her to the PICU. The Risperdal was increased to 1mg twice daily, then three times daily and is now receiving 0.5mg in am and 3mg in pm. He also started Celexa about 4 days ago but I am unclear on the dosage.
We were unable to see her for 72 hours but once we were allowed to visit it broke my heart. I expected some sedation but she was very groggy, appeared extremely depressed and would not eat at all. For several days all we were able to get into her were 3 to 4 bites of food at most and some fluids. She kept asking when she would come home. I kept telling her she had to eat and drink, flush her system, and start participating in things. So now she is eating better but not nearly enough. She complains of her stomach frequently either nausea or cramping when she eats. But, she tries to eat for me.
She is now admitting to using the synthetic marijuana on a daily basis for at least the past 2 months. She is cognitively intact for the most part, sometimes forgetful but I am sure that is the medication. She answers questions appropriately but does drift off at times and we can tell when she is inside her head or talking to someone in her head. I continue to remain fearful of a serious mental illness but still can not help but feel that this substance had something to do with this. I have read many articles as well as stories from other parents going through this same thing. There have been several personal accounts of it taking weeks to months for their children to return to normal. Every article I have read listing the symptoms of this drug she has shown except for suicidal ideation. But, then again, I am not certain that she has not had suicidal thoughts just is smart enough to not admit them. My life has stopped at this point as I can think of nothing else and care about nothing else but helping my baby return home and back to normal. All I want is for her to live a life free from torment and the tortures of her own mind. It breaks my heart seeing her suffer so horribly.
David Baxter PhD
Late Founder
Part of the difficulty for medical practitioners is that this drug has emerged into common use only recently, so most still do not have a lot of knowledge or experience with symptoms such as those experienced by your daughter.
Thank you for sharing this with us, Karri. I hope your daughter continues to improve and that all of you will be able to return to a normal life in the near future.
Thank you for sharing this with us, Karri. I hope your daughter continues to improve and that all of you will be able to return to a normal life in the near future.
Thank you for your kind words. The physician told me that because this is her first episode he has diagnosed psychosis, NOS and mood disorder NOS. I totally understand both of those. He did express to me that it should resolve in 4 to 5 days. But, from what I have read online that is not necessarily so. She is definitely experiencing a psychotic episode and we are all unclear as to the cause. He did ask about her drug use and I was only able to tell him what I knew. She did admit some use to him as well. But, he stated to me, she does not look like a drug user. I honestly do not feel that she is deeply entrenched in drugs but was just experimenting, perhaps even self medicating for the depression and anxiety. Prior to all of this she had admitted to drinking rather heavily to "deal" with her anxiety in social situations. We discussed the problems with alcohol and she had stopped drinking. My long term plan is certainly for counseling and psych services as well as drug and alcohol counseling.
I am dealing with a lot of self recrimination for not getting her professional help sooner for the depression and anxiety. I honestly did not realize it was this severe but still blame myself for not seeking help for her sooner. At the time, I was concerned that talking to a professional would cause her anxiety to increase. All we can do now is continue to allow the professionals to treat her and hope she continues to improve day by day. I tell myself daily, One Day at a Time!
I am dealing with a lot of self recrimination for not getting her professional help sooner for the depression and anxiety. I honestly did not realize it was this severe but still blame myself for not seeking help for her sooner. At the time, I was concerned that talking to a professional would cause her anxiety to increase. All we can do now is continue to allow the professionals to treat her and hope she continues to improve day by day. I tell myself daily, One Day at a Time!
cwilliams1591
Member
Tell your daughter to hang in there. It has been 7 months since I had my episode and I'm a whole lot better. I'm not 100% yet but i have come a long way since I had my bad experience with the drug. I'm sorry you and your daughter have to go through this because believe me I know it's tough. But she will get better it just takes some time.
cwilliams1591
Member
I've been on a few different medications. I started out with Zoloft which I took for about 4 1/2 months until my doctor changed it to lexapro because the Zoloft wasn't really working. I was also taking zyprexa along with the Zoloft and lexapro but recently came off the zyprexa. I also have been going to therapy appts every one to two weeks. But I think the time is what has been most effective. It takes time for medication to work and time to get over such a bad experience. I'm still dealing with a detachment feeling or better known as depersonalization. Sometimes I just think its all in my head but i can't help but feel that way. And from what I've read and learned there is no real treatment for this.
cwilliams, thank you for sharing. I am sorry that you have had to experience this as well. I know in my heart that it is going to take time. It helps to know we are at least heading in the right direction. I worry about the thoughts she has because it seems to both my husband and I that she is holding something more back. It's as if she wants to let it out but is afraid to. I am hoping that soon she will talk with someone and share what it is. All I can do right now is to keep telling her that we are there for her no matter what. I tell her frequently that there is nothing in this world that will make me stop loving her. I guess it hurts to think she doubts this. But, I won't stop telling her that regardless.
Chain Lightning
Member
I held stuff back from my parents and others regarding my bipolar. My reasons were: they would judge me (and they would have), I was ashamed that I wasn't functioning normal, some of it was too traumatic...etc. I ended up having to help myself later in life. Just make sure at some point, she really feels safe telling you, you may be right there could be something else...don't try to dig it out of her either. It takes time. Good luck.
Thanks Chain Lightning, that is something I have kind of sensed. I told my husband not to push or ask too many questions, know when to back off a bit and allow her to come forward. She has always been the type of personality that closes down when you push too hard, even as a small child. So I am used to that. I just fear now that if we push too hard or scare her or even give her the sense that she can not trust us that she will totally close off. I told her the other day, that maybe she would feel more comfortable talking to a therapist. I further explained that anything she discussed would be kept confidential, even from us if that's what she wanted. She looked at me as if she was thinking that over. As a parent you want to know what's hurting your child but I have to learn to let her decide what I need to know.
Chain Lightning
Member
That's what I was going to suggest next...about her talking to therapist instead...that way she gets the help she needs with it but the independence and privacy. Even though you may not know what was bothering her you know she is being helped. As far as I can see, I think you are right on and doing the right things. As a past experimenter of psychedelic drugs myself, I think she may need to process everything she experienced with the "spice". These experiences can be intense, traumatic and unveil parts of ourselves we did not know. I was bipolar as a child and very young adult (psychotic symptoms included) and my drug use and experimenting came later in life. I used to post on here from time to time...but was afraid to come out and say what was bothering me. But those trip experiences were enough to trigger more manic episodes..every time I took LSD it made me instantly manic for months. But other than that, it opened doors (sorry lol) to parts of myself I kept hidden...it was a lot to process and understand...make sure she has an outlet. Art and music were mine.
Everything you said makes perfect sense. She is and always has been very intelligent and creative. She has always used music as an outlet as well as words, in writing that is. I will make sure she has every opportunity to express and process what she is experiencing. I believe a large part of her hesitancy with being forthcoming is as you stated previously, a fear that others will judge her. She has always been a worrier type of person and thinks excessively about things. I see that as contributing to her difficulties now. She is over thinking and over processing things in her mind and is afraid of the reactions of others if she lets it out. She definitely needs an outlet.
This also raises a question that I have struggled with. How exactly should we manage her delusional or paranoid thoughts? Also, how do we manage her obvious auditory hallucinations? In practice I have been attempting to comfort and reassure her as much as possible. I don't want to negate anything she says but I do want to comfort her and attempt to provide feelings of safety and security. Does anyone have any good suggestions for managing these issues and providing her with reality based direction?
This also raises a question that I have struggled with. How exactly should we manage her delusional or paranoid thoughts? Also, how do we manage her obvious auditory hallucinations? In practice I have been attempting to comfort and reassure her as much as possible. I don't want to negate anything she says but I do want to comfort her and attempt to provide feelings of safety and security. Does anyone have any good suggestions for managing these issues and providing her with reality based direction?
Chain Lightning
Member
ARG! I just deleted my reply. 
I say if she shows in new interest in anything esp creative encourage her.
I heave learned over the years that I can identify hallucinations as unusual. Ex; I was manic and cleaning the house and I heard children running and playing but I knew they were all in my head. I just ignore them and things I see. With depression its harder, I was eating hamburger one time but it looked rotten and smelled bad...I decided it wasn't real when it looked like nasty little monsters...but still couldn't eat it. Delusions are harder for some reason...if I think somebody is calling the cops on me for stealing (even though I didn't) because of the fear, its hard to let it go, I keep thinking it.
Just acknowledge what she sees, thinks, hears without disputing it...but obviously don't reinforce it. Maybe ask her if she thinks [insert hallucination] seems unusual to her too and that you haven't even seen it. That way she can work out in her own mind how to cope with it. Maybe encourage her to write/draw them and what she thinks they really mean...if she can connect them to something. They should give you more tips (assuming she's still in their care) when you take her home. You could even get a therapist for you and your husband if you need to.
I say if she shows in new interest in anything esp creative encourage her.
I heave learned over the years that I can identify hallucinations as unusual. Ex; I was manic and cleaning the house and I heard children running and playing but I knew they were all in my head. I just ignore them and things I see. With depression its harder, I was eating hamburger one time but it looked rotten and smelled bad...I decided it wasn't real when it looked like nasty little monsters...but still couldn't eat it. Delusions are harder for some reason...if I think somebody is calling the cops on me for stealing (even though I didn't) because of the fear, its hard to let it go, I keep thinking it.
Just acknowledge what she sees, thinks, hears without disputing it...but obviously don't reinforce it. Maybe ask her if she thinks [insert hallucination] seems unusual to her too and that you haven't even seen it. That way she can work out in her own mind how to cope with it. Maybe encourage her to write/draw them and what she thinks they really mean...if she can connect them to something. They should give you more tips (assuming she's still in their care) when you take her home. You could even get a therapist for you and your husband if you need to.
Thank you that is very helpful. At this point in time she is really not receiving any kind of therapy, just trying to stabilize her condition with the medications and encourage her to come out of her room. They have pretty much just been observing her so far. We do have an appointment to meet with the doctor in the morning so I am sure we will be given more instructions then. I want her home so badly but at the same time am fearful of making things more difficult for her because of something I may mistakenly do wrong.
Chain Lightning
Member
You're learning about this and may do some little thing mistakenly wrong...but the fact that you want to and are seeking the right things to do, is the best thing for her. I wish my parents did that for me.
I wish my parents did that for me.As do I Chain Lightning, I know as parents we all make mistakes and I think we grieve those mistakes for the rest of our lives. I certainly wish I had done a lot of things differently but all I can do now is move forward. I like to think that both of my daughters know that they are loved unconditionally. But, I fear that is something my youngest wrestles with. She has self esteem issues as well as the anxiety and depression. I know she has always spent a lot of time in her head, worrying and "what if'ing" everything. I keep telling her that she comes by that naturally because her father and I are both that type of people also. It's what we are and that you learn to compensate for it with age. I thought she was just like us and that she would learn to deal with her worries and her mind as we did. I never realized that her issues were affecting her so deeply. I am just thankful that we were able to see when things were going badly and that she wasn't away at school or on her own without any support. I have to keep telling myself, One day at a time, and to take the good days with the bad. Yesterday she was angry with us and would barely talk. She was shut down, which she always does when angry. We had to learn to give her the space and walk away until she is ready to talk about things. Today is a new day. Thank you so much for your insights and sharing your story. It has helped me tremendously. You are a very brave and strong person.
cwilliams1591
Member
Hey karri how is your daughter doing?
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