Not an Addict

[Into The Light]

their outlook was they would rather die happy after50 years of smoking, than to live ou the worst parts of the remainder of a healthy life dealing with old age problems and issues.

the only problem with this is that it affects the people that are physically near them when they smoke. second-hand smoke is bad for everyone, regardless of who you are, and regardless of where you are smoking. smoking outside still causes people near you to breathe in that smoke.

 

[ladylore]

the only problem with this is that it affects the people that are physically near them when they smoke. second-hand smoke is bad for everyone, regardless of who you are, and regardless of where you are smoking. smoking outside still causes people near you to breathe in that smoke.

:agree::goodposting:

 

[Jazzey]

I think this may be an overgeneralization. I'm a smoker who really wants to quit smoking. And yes, I'm aware of all the negative side effects.

I never smoke in front of non-smokers or children....It's an addiction. And for me personally, has nothing to do with wanting to die happy. I want to quit. But I'm dealing with one issue at a time for right now.

As a woman, I also firmly believe that smoking causes even greater harm than for men since we have nicotine receptors on the cervix. I found out today my Mom is in hospital for clogged arteries (carotid) due to 40 years of smoking. I can assure you, her smoking over these years had far more to do with struggling with depression than any want of "dying happy".

 

[Into The Light]

good point jazzey. smoking is very difficult to give up. that is the nature of addiction. i think overall there are both smokers who don't want to quit and smokers who do. i am sorry to hear about your mother.

 

[Atlantean]

I only smoke outside. I cant stand the smell of smoke indoors, but I agree with you regarding your sentiment.

(forgot to quote, this was regarding the post about smokers who do others harm through second-hand smoking).

 

[stargazer]

Having just read this thread, I think the main thing I agree with is Dr. Baxter's saying that it's a complicated issue. I for one can't figure it out. The whole "powerless" thing in AA/NA doesn't ring quite true for me, unless I am missing the point. I know that I am powerless over other people's choices, for example, but I can't think of anyone other myself who has the power over my own.

On the other hand, I am dealing with a close family member who has a very serious problem with alcohol, and she is quite aware that it is a serious problem. I wouldn't say that she is in "denial," but the alcohol is so much more powerful than she is, she has not yet been able to stop. She tells me that she can drink a fifth of vodka in a single night, and has sometimes called me up after having done so. Then, in the morning, she does not remember having called me, or what she said.

I had to look up what actual quantity a "fifth of vodka" would be, and I read that it was the equivalent of 17 drinks. I personally cannot even imagine putting down 17 of *anything!* On the other hand, there are some things that I know are bad for me, and yet I am drawn toward them with an irrational compulsion, so that if I even do *one* of them, I might be in serious trouble.

Back to the point, I wonder if she is "powerless" over alcohol, or if it would suffice to admit that, although the alcohol is a lot more powerful than she is, she still has *some* power. Given any battle between the two of them, alcohol will win, unless something changes. But something must change. And where is the power for that change to come from? Doesn't it have to come from within her?

Even believing in God, as I do, I think we are created with free will - I just don't get the thing of surrendering to a "Higher Power." What happens then? Does this other "power" begin to make my choices for me? As I said, I may be missing the point - but that's my point. For me, the whole "powerless" idea doesn't make sense.

Now, about meetings. Occasionally, I go to twelve-step meetings nowadays, and I find that they help me to center myself and relax and put my troubles behind for an hour. I find that afterwards, I feel calmer, and I am prioritizing things better. However, the social aspect of AA/NA, and the changes in behavior I have seen some (not all) of the members of such programs adopt, make me leery of wanting to enter into that realm very deeply. For me, it seems to be a useful group, if I tread lightly therein.

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Oh - I meant to add something about the labeling. I agree with those who don't feel comfortable wearing the label "drug addict" or "alchoholic." For me, those labels have largely negative connotations in the popular language of our culture. So, even if the recovering addict is characterizing his or herself as such in order to show humility, or in order to cop to a deep central issue; it would still seem to me that this kind of self-definition would restrict the person's growth.

I think this is evidenced in some of the people I know who have hung out in AA or NA with deep absorption over many years. I have friends like these, and they somehow don't ever seem to change, or to allow themselves the natural progressions of growth and maturity that most people experience over time. I know I sound as though I am generalizing, but there are specific people in my life who are like this - and I think it's scary. Their minds seem to be overly occupied with the themes of alcohol and drugs, and they also seem to be on the lookout for symptoms of alcoholism and drug addiction among all their friends and family members. This doesn't strike me as healthy.

But once again, I suspect this is a function of the social aspect of these programs, and not necessarily of the spirituality that is inherent in AA, NA, etc. That's why I do go to meetings sometimes - I find them spiritually helpful - but that's also why I don't go very often.

 

[Into The Light]

i'm not sure but i think this higher power concept is there to in a way help people accept things that they have difficulty accepting. i think the higher power idea is there to avoid talking about god specifically, because not everyone is religious, so they replaced it with higher power, and you can fill in the blank for yourself if that is god or something else. i think it's some form of spirituality and of being connected to the world and the universe that we are a part of. that being said, if the idea doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you.

 

[stargazer]

i'm not sure but i think this higher power concept is there to in a way help people accept things that they have difficulty accepting. i think the higher power idea is there to avoid talking about god specifically, because not everyone is religious, so they replaced it with higher power, and you can fill in the blank for yourself if that is god or something else. i think it's some form of spirituality and of being connected to the world and the universe that we are a part of. that being said, if the idea doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you.

I think that's it, yes. I also have thought about what I wrote last night, which was an awful lot, considering this is a subject on which I have totally no idea what I'm talking about.

But having thought about it a little more, I guess a person's will can be surrendered to certain authorities for one's own good - I mean, human authorities whom God (or a Higher Power) has placed in that person's life for their own benefit; i.e., probation officers, substance abuser counselors, public defenders, prosecuting attorneys - you see where I'm headed. So the surrender of one's will and one's life to a power greater than oneself would not necessarily suggest a kind of cosmic puppeteer up there pulling on one's strings to prevent them from making their own choices. It could be a lot more concrete than that.

Maybe this is a little too philosophical or analytical - but it would probably work for me better than to feel that I'm relinquishing my power of choice completely; that is, to total powerlessness. To me, that seems, well, impossible...

 

[y-bloc]

I didn't like AA at all. I addressed the 'higher power' issue the first time I spoke up at a meeting. Everyone chimed in to reassure me that a 'higher power' was just a conceptual tool, that it could be my favorite tree, the universe, nature, etc...in other words just semantics & mumbo-jumbo, my 'higher power' could be an old chair or a passing thought...or god. A silly illusion.

I do consider myself an alcoholic, but not in the way I think the word is usually used. Just because I'm out of control of alcohol doesn't mean that some mysterious force took the control away from me. I'm all right here, brain and body. It's not someone else pouring the alcohol into me when I drink, it's me doing it. It's not some force outside of me deciding that just one more wont hurt, and it isn't someone else getting teary eyed, insulting or passing out when I've had too much. It doesn't matter how out of control I feel, it's still me making all of those choices.

I don't drink. I don't go to meetings. I'm a dry alcoholic. Apparently that's a terrible thing to be...at least according to AA. Maybe there is a little bit of truth to it. A dry alcoholic is probably the same hurt puppy they were when they picked up the bottle years ago, only they aren't drunk anymore. But then all AA really does to counter that is to introduce the illusory 'higher power' band-aid. Relinquish your power to 'something greater than yourself' and you are on the road to recovery, don't and you are in dry stasis. Given the choice between relinquishing responsibility or taking responsibility, I'll take the taking deal any day. I might not always know the right thing to do with it, but that won't make me give it up.

 

[ladylore]

There are also many other great resources out there besides the 12 steps. You may want to do a search for '12-step alternatives' for your area.

 

[Atlantean]

Can someone please explain the concept of what a 'dry' alcoholic actually is? I have heard the term before, but I never really understood exactly what was meant by it.

 

[Jazzey]

I had actually never heard the term before A.

What Is A Dry Drunk? | Addiction Recovery Basics
The Dry Drunk

 

[y-bloc]

As far as I understand it, a dry alcoholic is someone who stops drinking but doesn't address the issues that lead to the alcoholism in the first place. All of the mechanisms that that lead to alcoholism, and all of the behaviors involved in it are still in place...the escapist stuff, fear, depression, anger, whatever. I only know it as an AA term, so my definition might not be spot on.

 

[Halo]

I too only know it as an AA term and what you described y-bloc is spot on. Someone who has quit the drinking but never looked any further and are still engaging in a lot of the same behaviours, relationships etc. but just are not putting the bottle to their mouth.

A dry drunk - someone not working the steps in AA and coasting/not willing to work.

 

[ladylore]

For me, its not even about the 12-steps. If I catch myself being impulsive, not 'playing the tape' through to the end, not considering other people around me.... then I know it is time to step back and take a look at what is going on. I take out my early recovery pages that the Addiction Centre gave us and go from there.

Your right Halo - if I am not willing for some reason to see what is really going on - for me, that is a red flag.