ODSP is classifying relative paying rent as income

[enduran]

A relative is paying the majority of my rent and has been doing so for a while.

ODSP is counting these gifts as income. They say that a gift must be an occasional event, while the rent payment is a regular, monthly occurrence. For some reason, this makes it income instead?

I can't find any info regarding this. The ODSP Act doesn't define income vs gifts. The ODSP doesn't mention anything about this either.

It seems very strange that a gift could somehow be transformed into income simply because it is given on a monthly basis vs in a few lump sums.

Does anyone have any info that would help clarify the situation?

 

[David Baxter PhD]

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and not an expert on ODSP.

You can always appeal, of course. But I'm not sure how far that would get you.

However, ODSP is supposed to consider your expenses, your assets (e.g., savings, investments, RRSPs, etc.), and any recurring income when determining both your eligibility for ODSP as well as the level of support from ODSP.

Given that you say your relative has been paying a portion of your rent for sometime, I'm afraid that would seem to qualify as additional income. The only other way I think it might be considered is a reduction in your expenses but that probably wouldn't help you in terms of the amount of support you are eligible for either.

 

[Daniel E.]

Are they using a formula to reduce your benefits by a certain amount or just deducting the whole rent contribution pretty much from your payment?

(For example, in the US, a relative paying $800 towards rent would result in a $300 decrease:

https://www.ssa.gov/ssi/text-living-ussi.html )

 

[enduran]

My understanding is that an ODSP recipient is was allowed to receive a maximum of $10,000 in any number of gifts over a 12 month period, after which any additional funds are counted as income.

My impression was that it is very common for ODSP recipients to receive monthly help with rent and bills from relatives in the form of gifts. Didn't they just raise the gift limit in acknowledgment of this?
`
Thank you very much for the feedback, David. I can't say this makes any sense to me still, but very few things do anymore.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

I might suggest a a possible way around this.

As I said, you are limited in terms of the assets you are allowed to accumulate in savings accounts, etc. But that just refers to total balances, which should not exceed the maximum (it used to be $5000 I think but they may have increased it).

Why not have your relative just deposit money into your bank account? Then it's really a gift. You pay the rent out of your own bank account which now actually does include some money given as a gift but it's not violating their rules.

 

[enduran]

Are they using a formula to reduce your benefits by a certain amount or just deducting the whole rent contribution pretty much from your payment?

They are counting 100% of it as income, which results in about 1/2 of it being deducted from my benefits.

 

[forgetmenot]

Then tell them you are not going to recieve the money anymore as your relative wanted to give it to you to help supplement your bills but if they are going to take the money away anyways he or she will not longer be giving it to you.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

Then tell them you are not going to recieve the money anymore as your relative wanted to give it to you to help supplement your bills but if they are going to take the money away anyways he or she will not longer be giving it to you.

Yes. And then suggest that your relative really make it a gift by direct transfer or deposit into your bank account.

 

[enduran]

I might suggest a a possible way around this.

As I said, you are limited in terms of the assets you are allowed to accumulate in savings accounts, etc. But that just refers to total balances, which should not exceed the maximum (it used to be $5000 I think but they may have increased it).

Why not have your relative just deposit money into your bank account? Then it's really a gift. You pay the rent out of your own bank account which now actually does include some money given as a gift but it's not violating their rules.

I have zero assets. The cheque is usually made out to me and deposited into my account. There were a few months recently, however, where it was made out directly to the landlord. I never thought that would make a difference, so I didn't think twice about it.

I am fairly certain that my case worker couldn't care less if I returned to having the cheques made out in my name. If anything, I would expect them to accuse me of trying to cheat the system.

 

[forgetmenot]

Doesnt matter what they think ok if it is a gift then it is a gift so let them know that ok let them know that they will not be paying your rent again.

 

[David Baxter PhD]

So if it was just a few months, then you appeal saying that the relative was helping you out but can no longer do that, and m make sure the cheques go to you, not the landlord in future.

 

[Daniel E.]

If anything, I would expect them to accuse me of trying to cheat the system.

By the way, my experience with the case workers in the US is that they just overlook a lot of things. "Don't ask, don't tell."

 

[enduran]

Then tell them you are not going to recieve the money anymore as your relative wanted to give it to you to help supplement your bills but if they are going to take the money away anyways he or she will not longer be giving it to you.

Yes, that is how most people would react. I work a little though, so ODSP wouldn't give me enough to get by even without the gift. I was only expecting maybe $200, which would be a huge help. Currently, I am getting almost nothing.

Doesnt matter what they think ok if it is a gift then it is a gift so let them know that ok let them know that they will not be paying your rent again.

I truly do see it as a gift, and fail to understand how it can be seen as income, even according to their own documentation.
They don't seem to care what I think.

 

[forgetmenot]

Well it is a gift and you can tell me that your rent is not going to be paid for anymore as it was a gift to you ok let them know the relative is not longer going to help you

 

[Daniel E.]

The rules even state that the first and last month's rent are not even to be included in the annual $10,000 gift limit.

odsp 10,000 first last rent - Bing

Seems you got bad luck with this caseworker. (I am used to caseworkers telling me the loopholes, if anything.)

I would appeal.

 

[enduran]

Thanks everyone for your advice. I am not sure what, if anything, I will do.

My experience with ODSP has been pretty bad and this is just the latest in a string of issues. Based on past experience, I really don't believe that anything I do will make a difference, short of a formal appeal and I am not healthy enough to deal with that. It is hard enough just making it through the day, and I am already struggling to deal with a number of urgent problems.

Being able to share this issue with you all has been very helpful though, as I don't have anyone to talk with and this really threw me for a loop.

 

[Daniel E.]

I understand. I feel I have so much experience now with filling out tons of Social Security paperwork, I could apply for a job there.

OTOH, with the appeals in the US, a short note is technically enough to initiate an appeal, therefore continuing payments. But then if you lose, you have to pay back overpayments over time.

 

[enduran]

The rules even state that the first and last month's rent are not even to be included in the annual $10,000 gift limit.

odsp 10,000 first last rent - Bing

Seems you got bad luck with this caseworker. (I am used to caseworkers telling me the loopholes, if anything.)

I would appeal.

I absolutely got a bad case worker, but that is a whole other can of worms.

Incidentally, the case worker referred to this money as a gift repeatedly and on more than one occasion. I even specifically asked beforehand whether it would be treated as a gift. Then out of the blue, my first 'non-payment' comes in and it is suddenly treated as income.

 

[Daniel E.]

Is there a phone number to call to inquire about the issue? Maybe someone (in person or over the phone) can correct the issue without an appeal being necessary?

 

[enduran]

Is there a phone number to call to inquire about the issue? Maybe someone can correct the issue without an appeal being necessary?

Any calls I make seem to be routed to my case worker.