Opening Up

[Lana]

Thanks for the input everyone.

I'm currently feeling too defensive to respond appropriately, but just wanted to add:

It?s how he said it that made me angry.

?I don?t have a magic wand,? ?I can?t fix you,? ?I?m not going to force you to talk to me - if that?s what you?re looking for, you?re not going to get it,? ?you?re waiting for me to make you talk somehow, and that?s just not going to happen??

That felt like a lecture, and my reaction to lectures is to shut down and get a bit angry with the lecturer, and a lot angry at myself.

But he's 100% right! Therapy is not about the therapist doing the work for you, G. YOU do the work, they guide. How would you have him tell you this so as not to offend you?? It sounds to me like you're just putting up road blocks so that you don't have to do what he's asking you to.

If you think he's tought, consider this: if you were seeing my doctor, she'd tell you not to bother coming back if you weren't going to do the work. She'd add that she has better things to do and other people that want to do the work.

Considering that, I think your therapist was being quite kind. I know you don't care for my advice but I'm going to share it anyways -- get over the anger issues and do the work. it's way more beneficial then pouting.

 

[littlepieces]

But he's 100% right! Therapy is not about the therapist doing the work for you, G. YOU do the work, they guide. How would you have him tell you this so as not to offend you?? It sounds to me like you're just putting up road blocks so that you don't have to do what he's asking you to.

If you think he's tought, consider this: if you were seeing my doctor, she'd tell you not to bother coming back if you weren't going to do the work. She'd add that she has better things to do and other people that want to do the work.

Considering that, I think your therapist was being quite kind. I know you don't care for my advice but I'm going to share it anyways -- get over the anger issues and do the work. it's way more beneficial then pouting.

Hi Lana,
Would like to say from my own exp I can really empathize with G, and without trying to speak for G, I am sure is all to aware that has to do the work, and thats whats so frustrating, as it is for me too.
I think the way the T spoke was the main issue, not the content and this could be an issue which if not resolved seeking another T would be best. To be honest if T was any good should have been able to gage whether a lecturing approach was appropriate in G's case, seems not.
As for getting over anger issues, sounds like why don't you 'snap out of it' a common term used to help people get over depression?
littlepieces

 

[Lana]

Hi Lana,
Would like to say from my own exp I can really empathize with G, and without trying to speak for G, I am sure is all to aware that has to do the work, and thats whats so frustrating, as it is for me too.
I think the way the T spoke was the main issue, not the content and this could be an issue which if not resolved seeking another T would be best. To be honest if T was any good should have been able to gage whether a lecturing approach was appropriate in G's case, seems not.
As for getting over anger issues, sounds like why don't you 'snap out of it' a common term used to help people get over depression?
littlepieces

Hi LP;
I'm not stranger to how difficult it is to work on yourself, to accept your own faults and imperfections, and even worse, for someone to hit a nerve of imperfection. Been there, done that, didn't get the t-shirt. So, with all due respect, saying things like "it's HOW the therapist said this or that" is bologna. Translated, it means "I am not looking to do work, what I want/need is sympathy" I have a saying about sympathy but it's not appropriate here.

While I commend your display of compassion LP, I don't share your view as to what G needs. You are not her therapist and you don't know her any more than any of us. As a matter of professional respect, I'd like to think that her T knows her best then any of us combined. There's a reason why he holds the degree and we don't...well, at least I don't....so I"ll err on the side that he is doing what he, in his professional opinion, thinks is best. It would do G a lot of good to encourage her to work with him, not sate her need for pity, attention, and sympathy as to why she shouldn't do it.

Lastly, as someone that suffers from chronic depression, I can assure you, that I'd never ever tell someone suffering from the same to "just get over it". In this forum, as a personal rule, I avoid all and any judgements. And if I am unable to do so, I simply avoid posting anything and move on to things that I can address.

 

[littlepieces]

Hi LP;
I'm not stranger to how difficult it is to work on yourself, to accept your own faults and imperfections, and even worse, for someone to hit a nerve of imperfection. Been there, done that, didn't get the t-shirt. So, with all due respect, saying things like "it's HOW the therapist said this or that" is bologna. Translated, it means "I am not looking to do work, what I want/need is sympathy" I have a saying about sympathy but it's not appropriate here.
While I commend your display of compassion LP, I don't share your view as to what G needs. You are not her therapist and you don't know her any more than any of us. As a matter of professional respect, I'd like to think that her T knows her best then any of us combined. There's a reason why he holds the degree and we don't...well, at least I don't....so I"ll err on the side that he is doing what he, in his professional opinion, thinks is best. It would do G a lot of good to encourage her to work with him, not sate her need for pity, attention, and sympathy as to why she shouldn't do it.
Lastly, as someone that suffers from chronic depression, I can assure you, that I'd never ever tell someone suffering from the same to "just get over it". In this forum, as a personal rule, I avoid all and any judgements. And if I am unable to do so, I simply avoid posting anything and move on to things that I can address.

Hi Lana,
Got the message you don't like sympathy.
As for disregarding how a therapist speaks to you I am not sure? How would you like your therapist to be all sympathetic, would that help you? I am thinking probably not. So that all I was thinking with G, she obviously does not like the tough approach, and needs a bit of TLC at first.
I am certainly not professing to be her therapist?
Just because he holds a degree does not mean he is doing his job correctly in regard to G. They just might not be a good fit. I know it took me a while to find a therapist I thought I could work with and I don't feel it is 'one size fits all' Just like you said 'err on the side that he is doing what he, in his professional opinion, thinks is best', I am sure he thinks he is doing his best, but as my therapist has said recently 'just because you think it does not mean it true'!
Was being very sarcastic when I made the comment about 'just snapping out of it', relating it to your comment for Goblax to, just get over her anger.
Littlepieces

 

[Jazzey]

Hi G,

Just adding to a bit of the dialogue that's taken place between Lana and LP above. I seem to remember that you've been with your T for some time now. And if I remember correctly, you yourself have recognized that the struggle with therapy comes from your own uneasiness or discomfort at sharing with him, from your negativity with certain things.

I'll add my 2 cents here. I'm someone who really needs a straight shooter. ie: I don't want to be placated. Otherwise, I shut down because I feel the person isn't being genuine. While sympathy can be nice, it's only helpful to us if it's genuine. In this instance, your T was very candid with you. He may not have even intended to be mean or disrespectful. Simply, he knows you G - he may be trying to get you to understand his frustration and the predicament of only being able to help you when and if you start talking. While I know that you're hurt / angry right now, I think he may have done you a favour - he's got you thinking about it, about the reasons behind those comments. And as you can tell, in the process, from sharing here with us, you've made all of us think about those situations.

In the therapy context, I prefer someone who'll call a spade a spade because it forces me to think about my issues and the reason that I'm there in the first place. I know I've complained too about some of the things that have been said to me by my T. Having said this - a few things occurred at those times: 1) she forced me to think about what she said; 2) it forced me to think about why I had the reaction I had; 3) I appreciated that I don't necessarily have to agree with her and finally, 4) I was able to talk about it with her to make her see my position on it. And during all of this, I was able to appreciate that my emotions or reactions, while important, are only important if I reflect on their source and move forward with my insight into myself.

Your T may not have been as gentle as you needed him to be at that particular time. But I hope that you won't stay in the angry mode at him - that you'll actually give some thought about why he's said what he did. And actually talk to him about it. While I understand that those comments hurt you / made you angry - there's an amazing opportunity for growth there for you. Don't miss that opportunity by focusing solely on the emotions those comments elicited. Dig deeper into their source. You're way too intelligent for that and you deserve to find happiness G....You'll get there by doing the heavy lifting in this situation. :hug:

 

[amastie]

I'm currently feeling too defensive to respond appropriately

And I would feel defensive as well. I think you're totally justified!

...It’s how he said it that made me angry.

“I don’t have a magic wand,” “I can’t fix you,” “I’m not going to force you to talk to me - if that’s what you’re looking for, you’re not going to get it,” “you’re waiting for me to make you talk somehow, and that’s just not going to happen…”

That felt like a lecture...

It was! And one, big authoritive put-down! Sorry to disagree with others. but I wouldn't take it.

My sheckles are up even as you mention it.

...and my reaction to lectures is to shut down and get a bit angry with the lecturer, and a lot angry at myself.

..whereas I might *want* in part to shut down, but I've gained confidence over the years. I *don't" hold any therapist to have all the answers. They are human too and their techniques vary.

He could just as easily have said, "I don't know what to do to help you. [Wikch was the point of his entire rave] I see that you need to talk but that you are finding it too hard to do that. Perhaps, between us, we can find ways to help you communicate what you need to say to me. For example, play therapy, or just drawing anthing at all. They can be a good place to find a meaning that you find hard to convey."

My sense howeve, Gooblax, is that while you experience his as being on the attack, much of your "healing" time is spent defending yourself against expectation of his putting you down.

Have you drawn up a list of pros and cons for seeing him and really considered if you can get past your feelings of intimidation by him? If, for example, you tell him that you feel intimidated, it might open opportunities for real sharing with him. :support:

I know that my words come from a very different place from those of others but I hope you will not be more confused by different perspecitives but rather takes what feels right from anyoine at all.

The bottom line is to be gentle with yourself

 

[littlepieces]

Good post amastie, I agree with you :dimples:
littlepieces

 

[Jazzey]

When I read these posts, I don't think we're disagreeing on the substantive points: I too have already told G that I would shut down, that I would be offended by those comments.

I read my post and others' as encouraging G to recognize that anger and not dismiss it or walk away from her T. Remember, this is someone she's been seeing for a while. And if G decides that she is no longer comfortable with him, by all means she needs to find someone who's more compatible for her. But I do think it can be a bit of a sweeping statement to say that he wasn't being sympathetic enough or that he's mean spirited etc...

Here are his words to G:

“I don’t have a magic wand,” “I can’t fix you,” “I’m not going to force you to talk to me - if that’s what you’re looking for, you’re not going to get it,” “you’re waiting for me to make you talk somehow, and that’s just not going to happen…”

Now, remove any negative inflection, tone, body language...He was being very candid. That's what I meant....

While we've all read his words, none of us were there with G, we didn't have the full context and we didn't get the benefit of tone (which I think is key). AND - before people reply to this, I'm not condoning the words themselves. I appreciate they were a little harsh IF they were said in the ways that I can imagine (but isn't it just that?). But again, I don't have the full context and have to rely on G's rendition of the event. It's only one event over the course of many sessions....I too am sensitive to words. But I also try and give people the benefit of the doubt at times...particularly someone who's known me for a while. While he is a psychologist and G pays for his services, those services include (whether we like it or not) opinions / impressions and feedback on our efforts and progress. That's what I paid my psychologist for...And trust me, there were many a days where I wanted to fire her because of her comments!

As WP suggested earlier - what if he knows G so much so that this was his way of pushing her? Just putting it out there as a thought...A thought that's crossed my mind too.

However, I also don't want to encourage you (G) to simply walk away from this situation. It is an opportunity for growth - whether you ask him what he meant or simply look deep into yourself to understand your reactions to him (including the one about not feeling comfortable to talk about certain issues).

When I read Lana's posts, I read them quite differently I think than others have (and I'm someone who struggles to share with a psychologist) - I understood the post to mean - the T is right. Psychology sessions are meant to be collaborative. While I'm not condoning some of his words - I didn't get the benefit of being there or hearing the tone behind it. And, as we all know, when we're low we are more susceptible to hearing things or taking comments in a way that it wasn't meant. That's why I (and I won't speak for Lana) was encouraging G to speak to her T; to air out this last session and, more importantly, to learn from this opportunity.

I'm in a 'growing' mode myself. I don't have much self-confidence and I typically avoid confrontation at all costs where my personal life is concerned (except in my work situation - because I'm paid to do a good job).

So - all this to say, I understand where you are Gooblax. And I'm in no way saying that you're not entitled to feel the way that you're feeling. But I am inviting you do some work on those feelings and push yourself past those comfort zones (that we all have - including myself). What I don't want for you, is that you take the easy path by: 1) not talking to him about how this last session made you feel; 2) running away from him simply because you're hurt/angry without offering him the opportunity to explain where he was coming from; and finally, 3) I want you to feel better very soon.

And I do believe that this won't happen unless you're willing to explore your feelings and remain open-minded about your T and the sessions the two of you have. And again, this last point is / will be contingent on you're airing it out with him. If you can't do this, then you will likely be left with the only solution of finding someone else - And I don't think that this should be your only option at this point in time. At least, not without expressing yourself with him.

...and from recent experience Gooblax - I can promise you that you will feel better if you tell him what you were thinking about this last session. Including the anger that you felt.

 

[white page]

Hi Gooblax ,

I read somewhere , that a therapist holds up the mirror which enables us to see the back of our heads , I like this metaphor , when I first started seeing my therapist , I found I was talking around things, minimizing my emotions and feelings , and nothing seemed to be evolving , until one day when I was talking about a particularly difficult experience , and whilst talking about it , I came to a point when no more words would come out , I suddenly realised that I was protecting two people by being unable to speak further , my therapist and myself . I didn't want to load her down with my sorrow , and I had been avoiding my own deep grief , I managed to finish recounting the experience , and she very gently said that was an atrocious thing that happened to me . Just having for the very first time an acknowledgement for
my grief made it possible to face it and acknowledge to myself that I had the right to sorrow . from that point I was able to tell her that I had not been totally open with her before, because I could not face my own bitter truths and deep unexpressed and unacknowledged sorrows. .From then on I understood the team work that therapy is . A therapist can only guide if they have as many elements as possible , and it is work to provide those elements . It is also so exhilirating when certain pieces drop into place , and
our perceptions change about things we believed to be true , but we were seeing them through a distorting lens.

sending you my best wishes gooblax .:heart: wp

 

[Jazzey]

Thank you WP - you have such insight...and it's heartwarming..:airkiss: :airkiss: :airkiss:

 

[amastie]

Hi G ...I'm someone who really needs a straight shooter. ie: I don't want to be placated. Otherwise, I shut down because I feel the person isn't being genuine....

I understand Jazzey and I respect that.

..While sympathy can be nice, it's only helpful to us if it's genuine...

I actually think sympathy is rarely helpful in therapy. I can only imagine it being helpful in the case, for example, of a tragic occurrence. I would find sympathy expressed at other times, certainly if expressed routinely, as yukky, completely contrived and unhelpful. For me, there is a distinction between respectful (and knowledgable) regard for what the patient deals with and a contrived sympathy. The words which G. quoted from her t. struck me not simply as confronting but as abusive. What his intention in saing them was, I agree, something that only G. can know by talking to him about it, and I agree that would be worth doing if she feels strong enough.

What struck me in this post, Jazzey, was your emphasis on using patience to find out what he *did* mean. And you're right. We don't know. Only can I say that I heard the words differently because where I come from emotionally is different. Being confrontational with me is never helpful. My help has only ever come from non-confrontational therapists, therapists who bring to my attention what I need to grow and help me work to accomplish that.

That still doesn't change the fact that G. might well need something else, and something that this therapist can provide - and I want to acknowledge that, despite *my* response to the words he used. Only G. can put into perspecive for herself.

.....In this instance, your T was very candid with you. He may not have even intended to be mean or disrespectful. Simply, he knows you G - he may be trying to get you to understand his frustration and the predicament of only being able to help you when and if you start talking. ...

You might be right Jazzey. Your words are *so* well considered, and yet I still feel a different response to his words.

.....And as you can tell, in the process, from sharing here with us, you've made all of us think about those situations....

Yes

....I know I've complained too about some of the things that have been said to me by my T. Having said this - a few things occurred at those times: 1) she forced me to think about what she said; 2) it forced me to think about why I had the reaction I had; 3) I appreciated that I don't necessarily have to agree with her and finally, 4) I was able to talk about it with her to make her see my position on it. And during all of this, I was able to appreciate that my emotions or reactions, while important, are only important if I reflect on their source and move forward with my insight into myself.

I respect, and am *glad* that was the outcome for you. I suspect that the outcome would have been different for me however, especially as I would be inclined to think, as a result, that I *did* have to agree with her (the therapist), that I didn't have the right *not* to. I recognize that that itself would provide an opportunity for me to address that issue, but I would feel powerless to do so if I didn't truly feel supported by my therapist.

....I hope that you ...actually talk to him about it. While I understand that those comments hurt you / made you angry - there's an amazing opportunity for growth there for you. Don't miss that opportunity by focusing solely on the emotions those comments elicited. Dig deeper into their source....

Yes, I agree.

amastie added 34 Minutes and 33 Seconds later...

When I read these posts, I don't think we're disagreeing on the substantive points:...

I thnk you may be right in this.

I have the feeling that the *emotional* arguments are:

1. You *must* see him (because he triggered you)
2. You *mustn't* see him (because he was abusive)

Whereas, everyone seems to be in agreement that it is worth *talking* to him about it in order to move forward.

amastie added 17 Minutes and 9 Seconds later...

In a previous post in this thread, I said:

..whereas I might *want* in part to shut down, but I've gained confidence over the years. I *don't" hold any therapist to have all the answers. They are human too and their techniques vary....

Then, in a later post in this same thread, I said

...I would be inclined to think, as a result, that I *did* have to agree with her (the therapist), that I didn't have the right *not* to. I recognize that that itself would provide an opportunity for me to address that issue, but I would feel powerless to do so if I didn't truly feel supported by my therapist...

I've been re-reading posts in this thread and noticed the apparent contradiction in my words. In fact, both are true. I *am* much more assertive now than I've ever been. It's also true that there remains inside me a part that feels, as others describe, powerless and easily intimidated. It really depends upond the person, my relationship to them and the circumstances surrounding it.

I imagine that's true for you too G. :thinking: