I am really struggling

[H011yHawkJ311yBean]

Oops. Just about did it...

So in the square brackets the word QUOTE (place quote here) /QUOTE at the end (but in square brackets)

So in the square brackets the word

(place quote here)

at the end (but in square brackets)

I don't have some inner barometer to go by.

That's why a therapist is handy. They are good to help you find your barometer. That and your own experiences out in the world with your new set of eyes...

Yes, it is true that sometimes you and your therapist don't "click." You can shop around and you don't have to go with the first therapist you find. You might want to ask things like, "So are you familiar with personality disorders? Have you worked with people in dysfunctional families before? What do you know about Narcissistic Personality Disorder (or what used to be called NPD, because they've changed the definition a bit recently)? What I am hoping for is for some validation, and possibly some kind of support that I am not crazy..." Or something like that. If the therapist is clueless about Narcissism, or is really young/inexperienced, tries to enforce the traditional view that all children should love and obey their mothers (again because they are clueless), or doesn't know much about dysfunction, ask if you can get a referral to a psychologist who is experienced in those things. They do referrals all the time when they aren't as expert on something and there is no shame in asking.

It's a great defense for someone who's not nice. I was always too sensitive. I rarely spoke up to my mom, but at 15 I asked her how she thought it made me feel when she called me fat-head all the time. Well, I was just too sensitive!

Grrrr! I hate that, too. I usually know right off the bat that if someone says I am too sensitive, that typically it means they are completely INsensitive! lol No empathy at all. Of course if you called her a fat-head, there'd be hell to pay. Because it's perfectly alright for Ns to say rude things to you, but it's a sin of the worst kind if you do the same back to them!

Now, I'm really sorry if someone's lonely enough to be muttering in the pickle aisle, but I have my needs too and listening to a complete stranger wax poetic for half an hour about every detail of her menopausal mishaps made me rethink my strategy.

lol You are so right! Atta girl! I get a bit squeamish now when perfect strangers strike up a personal conversation like that. I don't mind a quick chat about something safe like the weather or something at a bus stop, but...

Hm, as for husbands who don't have a lot of emotional range. Sometimes it's how they were raised. They might feel a lot, actually, and just not know how to express it. On the other hand, that could be something you ask your therapist. That would be the best professional opinion you can get. Maybe when you've gone through some things you need to go through on your own, you could tackle that question together with the same therapist or a couples therapist (maybe your therapist can do both individual and couples therapy).

 

[je9je9]

Testing, testing, 1, 2, 3....

So in the square brackets the word QUOTE (place quote here) /QUOTE at the end (but in square brackets)

Thanks

You might want to ask things like, "So are you familiar with personality disorders? Have you worked with people in dysfunctional families before? What do you know about Narcissistic Personality Disorder (or what used to be called NPD, because they've changed the definition a bit recently)? What I am hoping for is for some validation, and possibly some kind of support that I am not crazy..."

All great questions that I will ask. I wasn't sure how to put it, so thanks.


A therapist diagnosed me with PTSD from "therapy" I received in the state hospital, so that was what I meant by being a little gun-shy about therapy.

 

[H011yHawkJ311yBean]

Ugh. PTSD from therapy!! Oh my gosh... Some therapy that must have been! 8(

 

[heatherly]

I don't worry about other people thinking I'm narcissistic. I worry about me not knowing if I'm narcissistic. Like I don't have some inner barometer to go by. I guess I assume other people just say, "Sure I'll give you a ride to the store," because they have appropriate boundaries. Whereas if, for example, my elderly aunt needs a ride to the store, I automatically say I'll do it because I love her and because I generally am quick to offer to do that sort of thing. Then afterwards I kind of regret it because I'm kind of a hermit and it's a pain to deal with her walker and I know when the day comes to take her I won't want to leave the house so I start thinking it's kind of narcissistic to regret a once-in-a-while help of an old aunt who would have given me a ride when I was young. But writing that I realize that it's more about that negative self-talk and my not liking to go out than about narcissism. And yes, I am going to start therapy soon. Called to make an appointment yesterday. I've been in therapy and have actually had some horrendous experiences so am hoping this is better. I've known for some time that I need it, but am a little gun-shy."

The good thing is that you don't want to be narcissistic. Even people who don't have narcissism often don't wish to help others, but some may do out of caring or because they know someday they will need help, but it doesn't always mean that they want to help. Some do it because it is the right thing to do. I think you would find that most people may feel like you and not be narcissistic at all.
Hope this makes sense.

I understand about not wanting to go out. I feel that in regards to taking a trip across country to see my brother. Would rather he came here. I have not figured out why I don't want to go away from home. I used to love to travel.

---------- Post added at 09:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 AM ----------

Jolly, True friends accept you as you are and listen to your problems and your past, don't you think?

 

[H011yHawkJ311yBean]

Hi heatherly,
Hells yeah...

 

[heatherly]

I am paying more attention to people now. When I first moved to another State I was lonely, and when I met a woman I really liked her and we had some things in common, and then when we parted ways I realized that I had drawn in my mother--looking back. Now I am trying to be intuitive again. When I made friends with her friend that she warned me about, I listened very well to how she talked and treated people, and so far I really like her. Our thing in common is that exfriend.

Then last week I went to lunch with a woman that I had met at a garden center, but her energy was really low in a negative way. It was not comforable being with her. She has not called me back and hopefully she won't. Met another woman at a doctor's office who was really cheerful, but when we talked on the phone we learned we didn't like to do the same things and went to totally opposite churches, me Unitarian; her Church of Christ. (I have a Christian friend), and when I told her I was Unitarian she grew quiet. I called her back and listened to her excuses why she didn't call, not that I asked. And so I won't persue.

But I am beginning to realize that when you meet people you need to listen a lot first and don't give up much outside of superficial things, such as likes and dislikes.

I know people who love people to start talking to them. I had a friend who would walk into a store and know everything about the owner of the store before we left. I felt that I should care to know them. Maybe this is where I am narcissistic. My father was the same way and everyone loved him, but he was charming as well and had a lot of women on the side.

I don't even like babies, and I can say that my mother's lack of affection towards us is the cause. This also could mean that I am narcissistic. But I don't worry about it because I can't change that about me. I work on what I can change, and that is how I treat people and how if people really get into my face about my being sensitive that I can walk away without telling them all about their negative side that I don't like. It is easy to walk away when you have not invested much in the friendship because you are not hurt that much when they say mean things. But I have been refraining from saying things to my sister that would hurt her, such as "You tell our family that I am a Klepto when you don't even know what the word means, and yet I have never told the family that you have been sleeping around on your husband for years just like our father did Mom. And furthermore, that is a sign of narcissism." So I pat myself on the back for that one. HA.

If your husband is good to you and tries to support you, then that is good. Many men think from their head and are not so emotional. And that is okay as long as the relationship works for you or others. I have a friend that I met in the 80s who had left her husband doctor because he was non emotional, but he was humorous. So she meets another man, a writer, who is emotional and verbally abusive, and all they did was fight, and she would always be crying. She should have stayed with her husband, but maybe that was too much for her. Since breaking up with this second guy, many years ago, she has been living alone and loving it. But that is her. I would have dumped the emotional abusive one and found someone nice.

 

[je9je9]

The good thing is that you don't want to be narcissistic. Even people who don't have narcissism often don't wish to help others, but some may do out of caring or because they know someday they will need help, but it doesn't always mean that they want to help. Some do it because it is the right thing to do. I think you would find that most people may feel like you and not be narcissistic at all.
Hope this makes sense.

That does make a lot of sense. I think that a lot of my helping is because I care. A lot is because I feel it is the right thing to do. But then when I get in the middle of it, I think, I want to go read a book and be by myself because I am a person who needs a lot of alone time. My brain really gets fried when I have more than an hour of social interaction. I guess a lot of it is that I automatically assume everyone else has the purest motivations for what they do and I really over-analyze my own motivations. I think that has a lot to do with past "therapy".

 

[heatherly]

I know what you mean by getting in the middle of it and wanting out of it. I volunteered for the garden club, and they had me doing so much work in the park, etc. that I wanted out. I got out. I had thought to myself, "This kind of work isnt altruistic enough. I should be helping others somehow." So then I volunteered for the Human Society, and after a while I was tired of that. I tried the Food Pantry but I had to put canned food in grocery bags and lift them. I came home with a sore back and ankles. I could have asked to work on the computer, but I quit. Now I don't want any volunteer work; it isn't in me but I wish it were. But I don't kick myself. I would rather be home on the computer, reading, or working in my yard. And it would be nice to have a woman friend again who loved to go check out different towns and stores. At least I have a lunch/movie friend here and one that likes to go to yard sales/nurseries.

We all have different motives for helping others, and sometimes we don't even know the motives ourselves. I know that I don't like to see people hurting mentally because I have been there, and so I am always telling people how to get over depression the way I had but most don't listen. Not even the sister that I am not speaking with, whose daughter is depressed and in therapy, and when I told her that I used positive thinking to get over mine, she knocked the idea down, said her daughter would find her own way, and had the nerve to ask me what I thought depression was, as if she didn't know I knew. But I still tell people, and it feels like no one listens because it sounds too easy and doctors are always telling them that it is chemical. And I came to realize and even read that your brain chemistry changes when you think negative thoughts, and if you think positive it can change again.

 

[H011yHawkJ311yBean]

A lot of different types of people and a lot of different types of depression and a lot of different degrees of it... Some people resolve it by Cognitive Behaviour Therapy (like you did, heatherly) and some do it completely on their own, with research and reading and asking questions, and meditation, and others (I know of at least two) who stay for long bouts of time in institutions because they can't do it on their own. I've heard of people using medication to help initially and then get weaned off it and are functioning fine, but I also hear of people who are on medication for life (like someone with diabetes or other life-long condition)... I hear the least effective means of healing is by taking medication and otherwise not doing a thing (no therapy, not trying to change behaviours or thoughts, etc)...

I agree that you can control your state of being/mind, but ability varies person to person. It's scientifically proven, however, that if you feel glum, stick a pencil between your teeth so that you are forced to physically grin. Believe it or not, if you grin, even though you don't feel like grinning, you will eventually start feeling better... lol How to Cheer Up

 

[je9je9]

Well, I think there is a big difference between situational depression and clinical depression and the depression caused by bipolar disorder. I do think that meds shouldn't be handed out so freely by family physicians without really understanding what's going on, but I do think they have their place.

I have bipolar disorder. For me, my depression is very physical. Lots of the time it is the absence of thought and is very physical. I do agree that when I am in the negative thinking type of space, positive thinking is a must, but I think true clinical depression which calls for medication is not the same as the situational stuff that people need to work on. But ongoing situational stuff can lead to clinical depression.

I will say that my mom went on Prozac when I got breast cancer (because she just fell apart. How could this happen to her?) and it has really made her a nicer narcissist LOL.

 

[H011yHawkJ311yBean]

See, I have an aunt who is biPolar, and I know at least one person on this forum that seems to be clinically depressed and another on Facebook who is also biPolar, so I know a little bit about the brain chemical imbalance - I know sometimes it is so severe that the only way to get a fighting chance or to even the playing field is to get medication.

I can't claim I fully understand depression, but I know it runs in my family on both sides(hereditary) and we're a bit more predisposed to being addicted or having other issues. That's why several members of my family are self-medicating instead of taking therapy/prescribed medication: sometimes addictions are hiding things like depression. Other possible issues in my family are different ranges in anxiety (ranging from general anxiety to near agoraphobia and extreme anxiety issues where too many people can set off a panic attack in some members).

I'm on Cipralex, because I had a panic attack or some kind of reaction to something in the present that frightened me that reminded me of something that happened in my past, and also because I went through a helluva year last year, one thing after another. I may stay on it, or I might eventually get weaned off, but right now I see too much of a positive change in my ability to handle stress and everyday life. So does my husband of over 14 years. We shall have to see how things go...

I know that if my brother could have some therapy and/or some medication, he might actually benefit and even out. He's more paranoid and might even be schizophrenic, but he does so many things to make whatever condition he has worse (marijuana, alcohol, and other harder drugs, isolation, hanging out with the wrong people, letting my parents coddle him even though he's 39 years old -- they do everything for him and he's never learned to do things on his own for more than a few months at a time)... He's an emotional wreck, it wouldn't surprise me if he is also depressed. He bemoans that fact that women always choose losers over him, but he somehow fails to see that a woman doesn't really find a man who mooches off his parents as very attractive. He wines that he never has sex and (before he blocked me on Facebook, thank heavens) he would leer at young underaged goth girls and get banned constantly from their parents and join (very publicly) every female/lesbian/explicit site he could (horrors to my poor little cousins who probably saw some of the crap he would carelessly post), and on top of that he would whine about how he hated it when married women friended him because then it meant he couldn't have sex with them (as if he has sex with anyone he meets on Facebook lol)... He's just not a healthy fellow. He decided at some point (I'm sure partially because my mom likes to play with peoples' medications) that psychiatric drugs are always 100% harmful and stays away from them. Instead he drinks absinthe and who knows what else. The funny thing is the absinthe nowadays that is marketed worldwide is ONLY alcohol and DOESN'T have the medicinary/hallucinatory qualities it had way back in the day when it was illegal. If there IS illegal absinthe out there, he probably wouldn't be able to get his hands on it. Yet he SWEARS that when he's drunk it that he has very unusually lucid and wonderfully vivid dreams.

I wish he would abandon our parents like my other brother and get help from a legitimate source, but like my dad, he's way too far in over his head. I'm not saying herbal remedies aren't good, just that he's more likely to use something that will make himself worse and more paranoid and stressed out instead of calming himself...

*sigh* I love my family.

 

[heatherly]

I was clinically depressed, severely depressed, and I had moments of hypomania. I have no idea if they would have called me bipolar in this age because way back then there was only Manic Depressive, which I was not. But I used the positive thinking on my own because no therapist ever thought to teach it to me. I also heard my therapist tell another that I was a hard case to crack. Then later on a different therapist tried to tell me it was chemical. They gave me lithium but even a small amount made me fall to sleep, so the dr. said I didn't have Manic Depression. I learned to manage my own highs by walking away from people and to sit alone. It was then that I learned that I could control my mania. No medication worked on me, so they gave up. But people in public would ask me what I was on and wanted some.

I often wonder why some people don't have the ability, but I believe you when you say they don't. But most I talked with didn't want to try because they didn't think it would work. Some went to prozac and swore that it worked but then would complain that they were depressed, but maybe prozac made then less depressed. I think it might be very hard for someone who is depressed to even make up their own mantra and use it all day long.

---------- Post added at 08:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:55 AM ----------

Jolly, You seem to be in a far better place than your family. It is a shame how it is with your brother. My own mother had a nervous breakdown at the same time as me. I called her at the hospital to tell her, and she never let me forget that I called her when she was hospitalized for depression. That was very bad to do. And my sisters are depressed. It runs in my family too. My brother seems to be okay, and my younger brother. a half brother, never had the problem.

 

[Frazzled]

I think I had situational depression for a while. I would give myself a day or two to cocoon and not leave the house and cry but then it was time to get up and be me. I have found humor helps me so I take the painful parts of this problem and make it into a funny story somehow so I can take the sting out of it. My husband keeps telling me he is amazed at how I am handling this and I can't really explain it myself. I do still have bad days and not so bad days but this whole thing has been a series of events over a 5 year period. I guess it was a slow band-aid removal but still painful non-the-less. I am realizing that what has been happening is something my mother and my father are choosing and I can't control it. I do have to live and function because I have a son and a husband that love me and I love and would do anything for them. I don't want to just say "I would do anything for them", I want to back it up with action. I don't know why I can still function. I haven't taken any medications. I deal with each issue, whichever is the biggest at that time, and give the others back burner until I can process the one requiring the most space in my brain. I refuse to let this take over my life. I refuse to give my mother satisfaction. I refuse to let this destroy what I have worked so hard to get. I keep repeating in my head Psalm 27:10 - When my father and my mother forsake me, then the Lord will take me up. It comforts me. I am not alone in this world and neither are any of you. I suppose I am a sickening optimist. Today is a good day!

 

[heatherly]

Being an optimist is a good thing, not sickening at all.

 

[H011yHawkJ311yBean]

I like being an optimist (it drives other people crazy)... But I've also learned that I shouldn't pretend everything's all sunshine and rainbows (AKA smiling and swallowing down my feelings)... So as long as you're showing optimism but not swallowing your feelings and being in denial that something's wrong, but that things might be kinda crappy and they'll get better because you're taking steps to help yourself (for example), then optimism is healthy no matter how sickening it is! lol

 

[heatherly]

I found a good therapist here Jolly. Finally. She really has communication skills.