I think that most parents are doing the very best they can for their children which to me is a totally separate issue from the ones who are abusive or indifferent. Spanking is not necessarily more harmful than other reactions. Just to add to Daniel's post. A friend of mine said that she would never ever spank her children and we spent some time discussing the issue. Then one day she phoned me in tears - her two year old had darted in front of a car and only the good reaction and brakes of the driver saved him. She pulled her son back to her and gave him a few good whacks on the rear. She absolutely could not believe that she had so quickly and easily gone against her principles. I assured her that since he was wearing a diaper it was unlikely he felt any physical pain but hopefully he understood the message not to do it again. I do not think that spanking is abuse and a smack on the rear is better than a dead child. I do not think spanking is a good idea but sometimes parents lose their cool when their child is in danger. Hopefully the overall care and love provided will allow forgiveness for mistakes. Parents need all the help they can get - sometimes even the best ones. :heart: Mari
- Thread starter David Baxter PhD
- Start date
I agree with the above post, but this is assuming one has parents who love them. Many have children as a secondary consequence of poor, irresponsible or selfish choices.
Most compelling of all reasons not to spank are the following (which can be verified by people who were actually spanked themselves by doing a little internet research):
"Even without sexual motives on the part of the punisher, spanking can interfere with a child?s normal sexual and psychological development. Because the buttocks are so close to the genitals and so multiply linked to sexual nerve centers, slapping them can trigger powerful and involuntary sensations of sexual pleasure. This can happen even in very young children, and even in spite of great, clearly upsetting pain."
Tom Johnson Sexual Dangers of Spanking Children
?Advocates of corporal punishment in schools should examine very carefully the weight of evidence now available and, particularly in light of the pornographic component, consider whether they can justify the continuation of a system with such a capacity for exciting unhealthy interest.?
British Psychological Society, ?Report on Corporal Punishment in Schools? (1980)
?But what you would not so readily believe upon my affirmation, was that there are persons who are stimulated to venery by strokes of rods, and worked up into a flame of lust by blows... A strange instance what a power the force of education has in grafting inveterate ill habits on our morals...?
Johann Heinrich Meibom, physician, 1629
Most compelling of all reasons not to spank are the following (which can be verified by people who were actually spanked themselves by doing a little internet research):
"Even without sexual motives on the part of the punisher, spanking can interfere with a child?s normal sexual and psychological development. Because the buttocks are so close to the genitals and so multiply linked to sexual nerve centers, slapping them can trigger powerful and involuntary sensations of sexual pleasure. This can happen even in very young children, and even in spite of great, clearly upsetting pain."
Tom Johnson Sexual Dangers of Spanking Children
?Advocates of corporal punishment in schools should examine very carefully the weight of evidence now available and, particularly in light of the pornographic component, consider whether they can justify the continuation of a system with such a capacity for exciting unhealthy interest.?
British Psychological Society, ?Report on Corporal Punishment in Schools? (1980)
?But what you would not so readily believe upon my affirmation, was that there are persons who are stimulated to venery by strokes of rods, and worked up into a flame of lust by blows... A strange instance what a power the force of education has in grafting inveterate ill habits on our morals...?
Johann Heinrich Meibom, physician, 1629
HBas
Member
I read some strange ideas here and realize that everybody feels different because of the circumstances they grew up in ...
I agree with spanking to a degree - But I have never viewed spanking as more than a hand to the bum ... now I read that some people have been spanked so hard that their sexual well being as adults are being damaged ... what?
The point is that I have never been spanked like that and can count the few hidings 'that I had' on my two hands - I feel it was needed cause a child sometimes knows when he/she oversteps and wants to be reprimanded (not always in the same way cause you get used to it) and if your parents fail to do so you can act out more because you then fail to see where their, Your leaders, values lies.
I have a counting system with my son. I count to 3 - have been since he was 3 months old. Spanking is the only thing that happens once we reach 3 - and immediately - no 4'th count and no 'I will let this go today' - he has counts one and two to explain himself and when I reach 3 without explanation or team work from his side - He will get a smack (on his bum with my hand) but you know, I can count the amount I have had to smack my child on one hand - he is turning 4 in July and 2009 I can even count the amount of times I had to count on one hand. I explain to him what I expect and why - he has time to explain himself and at the end of the day we understand each other.
He understands that I am the parent and always will - I cannot allow myself to be weak and set bad examples for my son like giving him a smack today but not tomorrow - I (and the other leaders in his life like my mom and His dad) have been consistent in love and discipline and have never seen a better behaved 3? year old in my life - even though I divorced his dad when he was one! He is an absolute joy and because he knows where he stands with me - he has confidence when he approaches me - he is not scared!
No matter how you reprimand your kid - do it with love and be consistent. There should be a balance between reprimanding and praising cause Both is Very important. In all cases I do not believe that the spanking is the damaging part (spanking - not abuse) but the lack of praise and reward on the other side causes the issues. Like the article said - Most Debated!
HB
I agree with spanking to a degree - But I have never viewed spanking as more than a hand to the bum ... now I read that some people have been spanked so hard that their sexual well being as adults are being damaged ... what?
The point is that I have never been spanked like that and can count the few hidings 'that I had' on my two hands - I feel it was needed cause a child sometimes knows when he/she oversteps and wants to be reprimanded (not always in the same way cause you get used to it) and if your parents fail to do so you can act out more because you then fail to see where their, Your leaders, values lies.
I have a counting system with my son. I count to 3 - have been since he was 3 months old. Spanking is the only thing that happens once we reach 3 - and immediately - no 4'th count and no 'I will let this go today' - he has counts one and two to explain himself and when I reach 3 without explanation or team work from his side - He will get a smack (on his bum with my hand) but you know, I can count the amount I have had to smack my child on one hand - he is turning 4 in July and 2009 I can even count the amount of times I had to count on one hand. I explain to him what I expect and why - he has time to explain himself and at the end of the day we understand each other.
He understands that I am the parent and always will - I cannot allow myself to be weak and set bad examples for my son like giving him a smack today but not tomorrow - I (and the other leaders in his life like my mom and His dad) have been consistent in love and discipline and have never seen a better behaved 3? year old in my life - even though I divorced his dad when he was one! He is an absolute joy and because he knows where he stands with me - he has confidence when he approaches me - he is not scared!
No matter how you reprimand your kid - do it with love and be consistent. There should be a balance between reprimanding and praising cause Both is Very important. In all cases I do not believe that the spanking is the damaging part (spanking - not abuse) but the lack of praise and reward on the other side causes the issues. Like the article said - Most Debated!
HB
white page
Member
Hbas ,
Thank you for your post which is a model of good sense. and infinetly respectful of your son.
I agree with the absolute need for consistence and clarity. the very occaisional symbolic light hand on the bum after due warning cannot harm a child.
And as you say it is the intention and the abusive nature of vicious spanking which is damaging.
Thank you for your post which is a model of good sense. and infinetly respectful of your son.
I agree with the absolute need for consistence and clarity. the very occaisional symbolic light hand on the bum after due warning cannot harm a child.
And as you say it is the intention and the abusive nature of vicious spanking which is damaging.
I am totally against spanking and any other forms of punishment( including hitting or slapping) when bringing up children, much better to sit with them and explain or show by example, tell them what they have done wrong and show them the right way to do it.
Budoaiki
MVP
As a child I was "punished" very often at the slightest provocation because of my mother's illness.
As far back as I can remember I was always extremely apprehensive about coming to my mother when I had done something wrong either for advice or out of guilt.
Once I became strong enough, I was no longer susceptible to her violent tenancies and our relationship grew exponentially. I have forgiven her for that a long time ago, once I came to understand her illness and her past as the lines of communication grew stronger.
I view violence as the lowest form of communication and I think that it is a sign that the person is overwhelmed by their own anger and or frustration. No doubt my experiences with violence have helped me to form that opinion and I believe it more and more each day with the violence I witness in the world.
Not too long ago I witnessed my mother intervene with great compassion and respect when she saw a mother beating her child in a public park. She gently approached the woman and talked to her for a few minutes I saw her cry and hug my mother then she picked up her child and left. When I asked her what happened she told me that they talked about taking her frustration out on her child and what that would do to their relationship. I was both proud and confused, my mother never talks about when she used to beat us but she has apologized for it and because of that experience I respect and appreciate her that much more.
I believe that in parenting and in most circumstances, except for an immediate threat to one's life or safety, that there is always another way and with a bit of patience and empathy (increasingly rare virtues these days) we can find the words to make our point or feelings known.
As far back as I can remember I was always extremely apprehensive about coming to my mother when I had done something wrong either for advice or out of guilt.
Once I became strong enough, I was no longer susceptible to her violent tenancies and our relationship grew exponentially. I have forgiven her for that a long time ago, once I came to understand her illness and her past as the lines of communication grew stronger.
I view violence as the lowest form of communication and I think that it is a sign that the person is overwhelmed by their own anger and or frustration. No doubt my experiences with violence have helped me to form that opinion and I believe it more and more each day with the violence I witness in the world.
Not too long ago I witnessed my mother intervene with great compassion and respect when she saw a mother beating her child in a public park. She gently approached the woman and talked to her for a few minutes I saw her cry and hug my mother then she picked up her child and left. When I asked her what happened she told me that they talked about taking her frustration out on her child and what that would do to their relationship. I was both proud and confused, my mother never talks about when she used to beat us but she has apologized for it and because of that experience I respect and appreciate her that much more.
I believe that in parenting and in most circumstances, except for an immediate threat to one's life or safety, that there is always another way and with a bit of patience and empathy (increasingly rare virtues these days) we can find the words to make our point or feelings known.
white page
Member
Thank you for your very moving post Budoaiki 
I would like to add that there are no perfect parents , but the majority of parents are good enough parents.
However Systematic violence towards children makes parents bad parents.
If resorting to violence is not in a good enough parents method of punishment , and out of exasperation one day due to fatigue , illness or deep worry a slap on the bottom escapes from the normally non violent parent , this does not make this parent a bad parent , it is just a part of being human.
I am not advocating any form of violence , but I do understand that very mild violence towards children can happen , if this is discussed afterwards and explained then I don't think it would be a lasting trauma.
I would like to add that there are no perfect parents , but the majority of parents are good enough parents.
However Systematic violence towards children makes parents bad parents.
If resorting to violence is not in a good enough parents method of punishment , and out of exasperation one day due to fatigue , illness or deep worry a slap on the bottom escapes from the normally non violent parent , this does not make this parent a bad parent , it is just a part of being human.
I am not advocating any form of violence , but I do understand that very mild violence towards children can happen , if this is discussed afterwards and explained then I don't think it would be a lasting trauma.
Please understand that this information has been well researched and documented in great detail by leading authorities on the subject (as well as published in several psychology/medical studies).
Unpleasant as this information is, we do our children a great disservice when we fail to acknowledge its truth.
Had we not turned a blind eye to the unpleasant phenomena of clergy abuse of children 20-30 years ago, many children would have been spared its devastating consequences. Peace.
---------- Post added later and automatically merged ----------
I agree completely with White Page's post
. There are plenty of really good, loving(imperfect) parents who just react in that way. I was distinguishing between that, and parents who couldn't care less about their kids. Parenting is a real non-paying full-time job!
Unpleasant as this information is, we do our children a great disservice when we fail to acknowledge its truth.
Had we not turned a blind eye to the unpleasant phenomena of clergy abuse of children 20-30 years ago, many children would have been spared its devastating consequences. Peace.
---------- Post added later and automatically merged ----------
I agree completely with White Page's post
.
There are plenty of really good, loving(imperfect) parents who just react in that way. I was distinguishing between that, and parents who couldn't care less about their kids. Parenting is a real non-paying full-time job!
Chain Lightning
Member
AMEN! I never "though better" of what I did...all it was...fear and avoidance of the punishment/getting caught. I was only left resentful/distrustful of the parent...and more sneaky!
Very true. And you don't even need research for that one. You can easily figure it out with your own eyes. You put vinegar on one plate, and honey or sugar on another. Leave it there for 1/2 hr. And start counting how many are where. Stupid comment I know. But it is common sense.
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