gooblax
MVP
This "not going well" was a combination of circumstance, him and me. But having any upset about it whatsoever is on me.
- Thread starter gooblax
- Start date
Have you had more positive circumstances (or less negative ones) in the past with other therapists?
gooblax
MVP
Circumstance wise - his video/audio disconnecting maybe 10 times during the session, and freezing a bunch of times throughout. Supposedly due to our country's dud new internet installation not coping under the strain of current usage.
I've had better circumstances plenty of times with him, and obviously with face to face therapists. I've also had bad internet issues with him before but he was previously able to work around that by doing sessions from his house rather than office. Not sure where he did it from yesterday.
Edit : obviously the same thing was happening on his end with my video and audio freezing (except my connection never kicked me off) so we kept having to ask each other to repeat ourselves.
I've had better circumstances plenty of times with him, and obviously with face to face therapists. I've also had bad internet issues with him before but he was previously able to work around that by doing sessions from his house rather than office. Not sure where he did it from yesterday.
Edit : obviously the same thing was happening on his end with my video and audio freezing (except my connection never kicked me off) so we kept having to ask each other to repeat ourselves.
Other than switching to telephone, one of these tips may help when tech hits the fan:
Tips for Helping Clients Ground During Telehealth
Tips for Helping Clients Ground During Telehealth
But he's the therapist -- the professional who is getting paid. It is his job to help you get un-upset or to accept it or to problem solve -- if you tell him what you are feeling/thinking.
gooblax
MVP
I did tell him I was feeling upset, but I wasn't clear on why (I didn't know yet, I only figured out the reason after the session, and it's only partially affected by the Internet issues). So he made a guess which he probably didn't think was a guess based on what I said, and addressed the guess which helped a bit once I was able to post-process. But it definitely didn't help with the upset feeling at the time.
So I tried, he tried, and we both missed. No one's fault situationally.
And yet my being oversensitive is a problem to me so it doesn't stop me from blaming myself for having feelings in the first place.
That reminds me: Albert Ellis has a point about how we should not put ourselves down for being down. Like depression about having depression can be worse than the original depression, or secondary depression/anxiety about being anxious can be more disturbing than the original anxiety, or frustration with low-frustration tolerance can be the greatest source of frustration. Similarly: Ellis 1994
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/science-and-sensibility/201312/three-core-anxieties-and-how-calm-them
Ellis’ three forms of anxiety: ego anxiety, discomfort anxiety, and anxiety over anxiety. The three forms normally blend and underpin specific anxieties, such as agoraphobia (fear of panicking in certain places), and social anxieties, such as public speaking anxiety. Diminishing one core anxiety normally results in lowering the intensity of the others.
Ellis’ three forms of anxiety: ego anxiety, discomfort anxiety, and anxiety over anxiety. The three forms normally blend and underpin specific anxieties, such as agoraphobia (fear of panicking in certain places), and social anxieties, such as public speaking anxiety. Diminishing one core anxiety normally results in lowering the intensity of the others.
gooblax
MVP
I'm going to take a break from the forum. Something has to change and maybe it's this.
David Baxter PhD
Late Founder
I'm sorry to hear that. I hope it's not a long break.
To recap some previous advice:
- consider a different therapist or take a break from therapy
- change the frequency of therapy
- consider a consult with a psychiatrist
- a diary may help with processing your thoughts and feelings (including after a therapy session)
gooblax
MVP
Thanks guys. Almost-a-week still counts as a break I guess.
My therapist ended up replying to the email of my bf's question on Saturday. I responded to thank him and ask for a phone call to sort out the main thing that had been upsetting me after the session. It was tough to ask and I don't know if I would have, had I not already had to deal with the bf's question email situation (I wanted to do that email for my bf, then after my therapist's response I wanted to reply to say thanks, and I knew I'd be way more upset if that was the end of it than if I tried to resolve the therapy-session-problem). We had the phone call on Monday evening and it helped, including to clarify how we'd both missed the point and maybe come up with a way to avoid missing it by so much next time.
I really do sense it would be a similar rollercoaster for me with a different therapist. I think if they were too 'overtly caring' or whatever it would gross me out and I'd want nothing to do with them (just typing that makes me squirm), if they were too 'probing' I'd block them harder, and if they're seemingly disinterested (but, I have to trust that this is more my perception than 100% reality... and seems to be a function of the level of engagement I allow myself to have) then I guess it forces me to want to engage with them even if it's weird to accept/tolerate the feeling of wanting to engage (and I'm tense just writing THAT. Ugh! :sour
. The downsides are the anxiety over my engagement level and their disinterest level, and then the inadvertently massive upset when the interaction goes badly. At the very least this therapist seems really good at the repair thing, once I find a way to articulate what's gone wrong.
My therapist ended up replying to the email of my bf's question on Saturday. I responded to thank him and ask for a phone call to sort out the main thing that had been upsetting me after the session. It was tough to ask and I don't know if I would have, had I not already had to deal with the bf's question email situation (I wanted to do that email for my bf, then after my therapist's response I wanted to reply to say thanks, and I knew I'd be way more upset if that was the end of it than if I tried to resolve the therapy-session-problem). We had the phone call on Monday evening and it helped, including to clarify how we'd both missed the point and maybe come up with a way to avoid missing it by so much next time.
I really do sense it would be a similar rollercoaster for me with a different therapist. I think if they were too 'overtly caring' or whatever it would gross me out and I'd want nothing to do with them (just typing that makes me squirm), if they were too 'probing' I'd block them harder, and if they're seemingly disinterested (but, I have to trust that this is more my perception than 100% reality... and seems to be a function of the level of engagement I allow myself to have) then I guess it forces me to want to engage with them even if it's weird to accept/tolerate the feeling of wanting to engage (and I'm tense just writing THAT. Ugh! :sour
. The downsides are the anxiety over my engagement level and their disinterest level, and then the inadvertently massive upset when the interaction goes badly. At the very least this therapist seems really good at the repair thing, once I find a way to articulate what's gone wrong.
David Baxter PhD
Late Founder
Crack of dawn here for me but I wanted to say two things quickly:
1. I’m glad you came back.
2. There are some very good insights in your post. You’ve been doing some hard work obviously. Well done!
3. (I know. This always happens to me when I say “two things”.) I’m really happy you jumped on the opportunity to get some clarity with your therapist about what happened. I don’t doubt that that was accompanied by a lot of anxiety for you but you did it anyway. Again, well done!
1. I’m glad you came back.
2. There are some very good insights in your post. You’ve been doing some hard work obviously. Well done!
3. (I know. This always happens to me when I say “two things”.) I’m really happy you jumped on the opportunity to get some clarity with your therapist about what happened. I don’t doubt that that was accompanied by a lot of anxiety for you but you did it anyway. Again, well done!
gooblax
MVP
Having an extra 'thing' is better than forgetting one and having one less 'thing' than initially predicted
Thanks @David Baxter. There certainly was some anxiety around it (more before asking than "actually never mind about the call " thoughts but those were involved too). I'm just thankful that he responded quickly and that it ended up being helpful.
Plus thankful for this forum where I can work through my mess of stuff (even if you and Daniel have to pretend not to get tired of watching the "ride", to continue my rollercoaster metaphor).
Thanks @David Baxter. There certainly was some anxiety around it (more before asking than "actually never mind about the call " thoughts but those were involved too
). I'm just thankful that he responded quickly and that it ended up being helpful.Plus thankful for this forum where I can work through my mess of stuff (even if you and Daniel have to pretend not to get tired of watching the "ride", to continue my rollercoaster metaphor
).
David Baxter PhD
Late Founder
It's not pretending.
David Baxter PhD
Late Founder
Having an extra 'thing' is better than forgetting one and having one less 'thing' than initially predicted
Except that after stopping to explain that this always happens to me when I say "two things", for a moment I went totally blank and couldn't remember what the third thing was. :facepalm:
I swear, I used to have a good memory before chemo. I don't think chemo brain every goes away.
*pop*
So I’m still existing and read over the internet connection issues and miscommunication, etc.
Glad to hear you are back, too, gooblax!! [emoji3590][emoji3531][emoji3590]
I’m impressed that you are mindful that some things you take away/experience are influenced by your anxiety and depression. Perception is tricky sometimes!
It sounds like you have to do a thousand changes every day just to deal with that. All those sudden turns and changes in your thinking to try and keep on track with what is really happening and what you *thought* or *felt* happened... I could understand if you sometimes felt overwhelmed trying to figure it all out and separate them. You must feel exhausted some days! [emoji3590]
I know it’s been said already, and I’m guilty of being mean to myself, too... But I hope you remember to give yourself a mental hug instead of a mental lashing when you’re down.
It’s hard enough on you that you already feel whatever emotions are happening and then you kind of kick yourself when you’re already down. At least remove your shoes and maybe replace them with big fluffy slippers if you do that. Preferably no hitting at all. *hugs*
—————————
David, I have ALWAYS had a terrible memory. I haven’t had chemo. I just have an ADHD brain, I guess. I wonder if there is a software program like the one I had to improve cognitive function, but for chemo patients... [emoji848]
Sent from my Hollycopter using SlappaSquawk
So I’m still existing and read over the internet connection issues and miscommunication, etc.
Glad to hear you are back, too, gooblax!! [emoji3590][emoji3531][emoji3590]
I’m impressed that you are mindful that some things you take away/experience are influenced by your anxiety and depression. Perception is tricky sometimes!
It sounds like you have to do a thousand changes every day just to deal with that. All those sudden turns and changes in your thinking to try and keep on track with what is really happening and what you *thought* or *felt* happened... I could understand if you sometimes felt overwhelmed trying to figure it all out and separate them. You must feel exhausted some days! [emoji3590]
I know it’s been said already, and I’m guilty of being mean to myself, too... But I hope you remember to give yourself a mental hug instead of a mental lashing when you’re down.
It’s hard enough on you that you already feel whatever emotions are happening and then you kind of kick yourself when you’re already down. At least remove your shoes and maybe replace them with big fluffy slippers if you do that. Preferably no hitting at all. *hugs*
—————————
David, I have ALWAYS had a terrible memory. I haven’t had chemo. I just have an ADHD brain, I guess. I wonder if there is a software program like the one I had to improve cognitive function, but for chemo patients... [emoji848]
Sent from my Hollycopter using SlappaSquawk
gooblax
MVP
Thanks for your post Holly. I'm fortunate that I only need to do all this recalibrating for certain topics.
Funny enough, I'm back in the "I should stop therapy" thoughts this afternoon. "I don't need help, I'm just being """weak/needy/pathetic""" and should stop wasting money on therapy, stop wasting my time thinking about this stuff, stop bugging my therapist, stop seeing him before he realises that I'm just weak/needy/pathetic if he hasn't already realised it, stop stop stop stop stop."
This is the part that's exhausting and pretty upsetting. I can't manage a mental hug - mental ignoring is the best I can do.
Funny enough, I'm back in the "I should stop therapy" thoughts this afternoon. "I don't need help, I'm just being """weak/needy/pathetic""" and should stop wasting money on therapy, stop wasting my time thinking about this stuff, stop bugging my therapist, stop seeing him before he realises that I'm just weak/needy/pathetic if he hasn't already realised it, stop stop stop stop stop."
This is the part that's exhausting and pretty upsetting. I can't manage a mental hug - mental ignoring is the best I can do.
David Baxter PhD
Late Founder
Sadly, that is part of OCD, especially the "Pure O" form of OCD. And yes, is is extremely exhausting, not to mention it increases your anxiety whenever it starts to the point where it's difficult to draw back from the thoughts.
The best self-help book I know for this is The Four Steps - Dr Jeffrey Schwartz - Brain Lock.
He also published a subsequent book which is supposed to be also good - The Four Steps - Dr Jeffrey Schwartz - Brain Lock - although I haven't personally read this one.
Here are the links for Amazon.com.au (both are Kindle editions although you can still get paperback for higher prices):
Brain Lock: Free Yourself from Obsessive-Compulsive Behavior eBook: Schwartz, Jeffrey M.: Amazon.com.au: Books
You Are Not Your Brain: The 4-Step Solution for Changing Bad Habits, Ending Unhealthy Thinking, and Taking Control of Your Life eBook: MD, Jeffrey Schwartz: Amazon.com.au: Kindle Store
I use AbeBooks for used older or out of print books and often these are much cheaper:
Brain Lock by Jeffrey Schwartz - AbeBooks
You are not Your Brain by Jeffrey Schwartz - AbeBooks
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